On 9/28/2020 at 6:08 PM, LlamaLawyer said:

Also also— why is this project $450 million? Lumen was about $225 per square foot for new build. This would be about $330 per square foot. Shouldn’t turning an existing building into cheap apartments be .... less expensive than building a whole new building of expensive apartments?

More often than not, it's cheaper to build new.  Trying to build within an existing old structure is difficult and you don't have the added demolition costs.  Also, this building is more spread out compared to the more vertical Lumen, where its more cost effective to stack utilities etc.  I'm also guessing that cost includes a hefty contingency line item to deal with unknowns or surprises during construction.

Centennial Story. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/whats-going-on-with/long-vacant-downtown-cleveland-bank-lobby-uses-historical-architecture-to-spark-citys-future

 

Interesting. Too bad it's non-binding.....

 

 

Long way off of course and who knows what the final look will be but whatever development happens I hope that exterior lighting is included. It makes the building look warm and rich. 

Hopefully the workforce housing will be better than Sinito's moldy section 8 complexes.

11 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

Hopefully the workforce housing will be better than Sinito's moldy section 8 complexes.

I’m always up for millionaire bashing, but are Millennia’s properties known for being badly maintained?

2 hours ago, bumsquare said:

I’m always up for millionaire bashing, but are Millennia’s properties known for being badly maintained?

Some of them yes. Most (all that I checked) of their Ohio facilities are fine relative to average. They acquired control of many section 8 places in other states that were already falling apart and have resisted fixing them, lied about fixing them, etc. They have a very big and diverse portfolio which definitely shields the bad eggs from scrutiny. But they are also the largest section 8 property manager in the country and some of them are literally falling apart. So my previous comment was definitely a pot shot, because I think they will continue to portray themselves as professional in conjunction with the image they are curating with their other high end holdings. It doesn't make sense to cut corners on a high visibility high end project with this much funding involved.

^ Let's hope that this gem of Cleveland history is properly maintained. It's too important of a structure to be neglected, regardless of who occupies the residences. I would think that such a property in Millenia's "home town" would be very well maintained.

 

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

From the article: “Construction is expected to start in the spring, with the first apartments slated to open by mid-2023.” Does Millennia have its financing in place?

 

Edited November 5, 20204 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Typos

I was wondering the same... they dont mention waiting on the tax credit and talk about a two phased approach. Would be nice to get this moving. 

Hopefully they don't need the tax credit and can just charge ahead. I take it with a grain of salt every time someone says they need the mystical TMUD credit because you aren't eligible for the credit unless you need it to complete the project.* So every time I hear a developer talk about how badly they need the credit, I wonder: do you really need it or did your lawyers just tell you that you have to keep saying you need the credit until you're 100% sure your financing stack adds up without it.

 

*I know it's not law yet; I'm talking about how it will be.

If they're not waiting on tax credits, that likely means they aren't waiting on the competitive 9% LIHTC. But I can't imagine how they do this development without the non-competitive 4% LIHTC. If they are relying on the 4% LIHTC, then it's smart that they're breaking up this redevelopment into phases. That's a pretty unique approach -- to pursue phases of development within the same building so they can repeatedly go after non-competitive tax credits. 

 

One thing I recall from Rep. Skindell, one of the members of the committee hearing testimony on the megaproject tax credit, is that he said there are literally dozens of tax credts offered by the state and wondered why we needed another. Skindell asked Sinito is how many other tax credits did he pursue. And if I remember correctly, Sinito said he hadn't pursued any of them.

28 minutes ago, KJP said:

If they're not waiting on tax credits, that likely means they aren't waiting on the competitive 9% LIHTC. But I can't imagine how they do this development without the non-competitive 4% LIHTC. If they are relying on the 4% LIHTC, then it's smart that they're breaking up this redevelopment into phases. That's a pretty unique approach -- to pursue phases of development within the same building so they can repeatedly go after non-competitive tax credits. 

 

One thing I recall from Rep. Skindell, one of the members of the committee hearing testimony on the megaproject tax credit, is that he said there are literally dozens of tax credts offered by the state and wondered why we needed another. Skindell asked Sinito is how many other tax credits did he pursue. And if I remember correctly, Sinito said he hadn't pursued any of them.

Do we know the second phase will also be rent controlled? I was under the impression they might have some market rate/luxury units in upcoming phases, which would probably help their dollars and cents add up and could also be beneficial for mitigating stigma. The fact the higher floors are waiting for phase 2 makes me wonder this as well since I'd think you'd want higher levels to be market rate if you are choosing.

^As long as the development is at least 40%affordable at 60% of area median income, the project (or any phase of it if it's condo'ed into multiple phases) will be eligible for the tax exempt bond funding that opens the door to the 4% credits. The value of the credits they get is tied to the share of units that are affordable, so don't know if they'd get enough credits to make this work if it's mixed income, but it's definitely possible under the program rules.

7 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

Do we know the second phase will also be rent controlled? I was under the impression they might have some market rate/luxury units in upcoming phases, which would probably help their dollars and cents add up and could also be beneficial for mitigating stigma. The fact the higher floors are waiting for phase 2 makes me wonder this as well since I'd think you'd want higher levels to be market rate if you are choosing.

 

I sure hope we see the final project a complete mix of incomes - low income, market rate, and luxury. One of the best ways to help lift people out of poverty is living in a diverse neighborhood with a mix of incomes instead of being segregated. We all know how important making connections can be, and it's much easier to meet the right connection and get the right referral if you're in close proximity.

NYC LEARNS LESSONS FROM CLEVELAND

 

Recent news reports have indicated that NYC is examining lessons from Cleveland's conversion of office space to housing playbook.

 

As a result of COVID-19, work-from-home options and out migration, there is a major surplus of Class B and Class C office space in Midtown Manhattan. Similar to plans for the 925 Building in Cleveland, as well as numerous other office-to-housing conversions, vacant office buildings in Midtown Manhattan are now ripe for conversion into more affordable housing, in a city desperately in need of affordable housing options.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-02/should-manhattan-s-offices-turn-into-housing

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/business/commercial-real-estate-conversion-coronavirus.html

Edited November 6, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Interesting to see this. It suggest some serious movement forward.....

 

Ordinance No. 907-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Tax Increment Financing Agreement with Milennia Housing Development, Ltd, and/or its designee, to support the redevelopment of the Centennial at 925 Euclid Avenue Project; to provide for payments to the Cleveland Metropolitan School District; and to declare certain improvements to real property to be a public purpose.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Interesting to see this. It suggest some serious movement forward.....

 

Ordinance No. 907-2020(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Economic Development to enter into a Tax Increment Financing Agreement with Milennia Housing Development, Ltd, and/or its designee, to support the redevelopment of the Centennial at 925 Euclid Avenue Project; to provide for payments to the Cleveland Metropolitan School District; and to declare certain improvements to real property to be a public purpose.

After that building is done, its new builds for years!

6 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

After that building is done, its new builds for years!

Except for the current but soon to be vacated SHW HQ.

2 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Except for the current but soon to be vacated SHW HQ.

Good point, should quickly be a residential conversion.

13 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Good point, should quickly be a residential conversion.

 

Why "should be"?

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Why "should be"?

I think the interest is there and with the new HQ and the other builds coming in. Again wait and see

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/12/tax-incentives-for-overhaul-of-former-huntington-building-clear-cleveland-city-council-panel.html
 

With this and the TMUD could this project actually happen? I have to say I thought there was no chance a few months ago.

An interesting bit of information from this article that pertains to The Centemmial

 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2020/12/750000-earmarked-for-crawford-auto-aviation-museum.html

$750,000 earmarked for Crawford Auto-Aviation Museum

 

WRHS officials said capital improvements regarding work that started in 2013 will continue to the Crawford’s lower gallery, collection storage and other areas. A broader initiative includes plans to feature artifacts from the Crawford in the Centennial Building at E. 9th Street and Euclid Avenue in downtown Cleveland.

“We’re very excited,” Falcone-Hall said. “That’s a project that’s been in the works for a few years. The initial outreach from (owner) Millennia (Companies) was ‘Hey we’ve got this unbelievable asset’ - and the enormous square footage of the bank hall, just extraordinary space in the city of Cleveland – ‘We’d love to give you the opportunity to feature some of your automobiles and possibly your aircraft in the space.’ Anytime we have the opportunity to bring our collections to the public eye and give the public more accessibility, we’re happy.”

Just some closer details of the facade at the top

 

i heard asbestos abatement was 10s of millions of dollars over budget 

Edited January 21, 20214 yr by MrR

Slight aside - but man,  really love seeing The Lumen’s ultra modern  presence in the background on those shots. What an addition in the Cleveland skyline. 

https://www.thelandcle.org/stories/centennial-project-aims-to-fill-need-for-workforce-housing-downtown

 

Centennial developers hope to close on financing by the third quarter of this year. The impression I get from the article is that they are pursuing a TMUD credit but that it may not be critical for the project.

BTW, I see they're finally getting around to fixing the windows from the riot last year. Maybe this is a sign that they're hoping to move forward soon -- or, they're cosmetic improvements in advance the NFL Draft coming to town.

17 minutes ago, KJP said:

BTW, I see they're finally getting around to fixing the windows from the riot last year. Maybe this is a sign that they're hoping to move forward soon -- or, they're cosmetic improvements in advance the NFL Draft coming to town.

I saw that also and thought the latter 😒

It’s a good thing Cleveland’s had a number of big events of national interest in the past few years so that stuff like broken windows gets fixed. 

https://www.ideastream.org/news/union-trust-building-redevelopment-would-fill-in-gaps-on-euclid-avenue

4 hours ago, scb0525 said:

https://www.ideastream.org/news/union-trust-building-redevelopment-would-fill-in-gaps-on-euclid-avenue

Now here is a place where people can plan to enjoy high quality lifestyles without expecting / needing / desiring to own a car.

Edited April 19, 20214 yr by ExPatClevGuy

Ch 19 Story. https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/04/19/huntington-bank-building-downtown-cleveland-track-re-development/

So do they have funding in place or is this some PR blitz by them to try and close up the gap? It seems like a lot of this media hype isn't really saying much other than teasing the project. Like we have been on here for years, then it hits a snag (TMUD for instance).

7 hours ago, GISguy said:

So do they have funding in place or is this some PR blitz by them to try and close up the gap? It seems like a lot of this media hype isn't really saying much other than teasing the project. Like we have been on here for years, then it hits a snag (TMUD for instance).

Channel 19 says funding is now in place - I hope they are correct with that.

1 hour ago, PoshSteve said:

Channel 19 says funding is now in place - I hope they are correct with that.

 

Do not question the journalistic integrity of Channel 19, sir. 

 

More from 19.....

 

 

10 hours ago, KJP said:

More from 19.....

 

 

 Do you have any insight into their capital stack? Are they actually ready to go this time? If they don't win TMUD is it still a go?

I don't have any insights about their capital stack.

 

SATURDAY, JULY 10, 2021

Millennia submits Centennial plans, seeks building permits

 

Earlier this week, detailed design documents were submitted to the city as an important first step to securing construction permits for one of Cleveland's largest-ever historic renovation projects.

 

The Centennial would convert a nearly 1.4-million-square-foot office building at 925 Euclid Ave. in downtown Cleveland into a what amounts to a self-contained town. It's a 21-story, 257-foot-tall town where nearly 1,000 people would call home and many hundreds more would work, dine and shop each day.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2021/07/millennia-submits-centennial-plans.html

I would like clarity on the definition of affordable housing in this instance.  Does it mean section 8 or does it mean apartments that are priced cheaper than some of the other downtown apartment options?

17 minutes ago, cfdwarrior said:

I would like clarity on the definition of affordable housing in this instance.  Does it mean section 8 or does it mean apartments that are priced cheaper than some of the other downtown apartment options?

From the article:

 

”The units will have rents priced for prospective residents who earn 50-80 percent of the area's median income (AMI). Eighty percent of AMI for a family of four is $60,800, for example.”

2 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

I would like clarity on the definition of affordable housing in this instance.  Does it mean section 8 or does it mean apartments that are priced cheaper than some of the other downtown apartment options?

 

The latter.

BTW, after interviewing the project's manager, I have extensively updated the article.

@KJP Can you help me understand why they’d sell the TMUD for 36million instead of using all 40 million to the project? Also, is selling tax credits commonplace in development?

4 hours ago, cfdwarrior said:

I would like clarity on the definition of affordable housing in this instance.  Does it mean section 8 or does it mean apartments that are priced cheaper than some of the other downtown apartment options?

 

The plans say "LIHTC," which means that the rents are capped at the federal program requirements to be eligible for low-income housing tax credits.

 

Here's some info:  https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-low-income-housing-tax-credit-and-how-does-it-work#:~:text=The Low-Income Housing Tax Credit provides a tax incentive,- and moderate-income tenants.

It seems rather odd to have "affordable housing" in the center of a downtown.  

1 hour ago, cle_guy90 said:

@KJP Can you help me understand why they’d sell the TMUD for 36million instead of using all 40 million to the project? Also, is selling tax credits commonplace in development?

 

Because companies like Cleveland's Global X who buy tax credits purchase them for 90 cents on the dollar, as noted in the article. So whatever dollar amount the tax credit is, 90 percent of it is what the benefit will be to the development. Yes, it's how they're all converted into cash.

 

5 minutes ago, skiwest said:

It seems rather odd to have "affordable housing" in the center of a downtown.  

 

As noted in the article, Millennia is of the opinion that there is too much market rate housing in downtown Cleveland.