May 29, 20205 yr I'm calling the Lee/Meadowbrook site. EDIT: Ohh wait, nevermind, I know exactly what it is because my company is involved with it...I'll let KJP divulge when he's ready. Edited May 29, 20205 yr by YO to the CLE
May 29, 20205 yr I'm anxiously awaiting the next phase of the Shaker Van Aken District project. The site plan for that had several follow-up phases. The inner rings burbs in general need more development projects. It's a good thing the Top of the Hill broke ground because it's been awfully quiet in the inner ring.
May 29, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, YO to the CLE said: I'm calling the Lee/Meadowbrook site. Don't hold your breath. Cleveland Heights city council gave the developer another extension -- to the end of July I believe -- but their patience is running thin. If there's no news by the end of that extension, they'll start over....
May 30, 20205 yr The Canopy Hotel in the old Ohio Bell Building, 750 Huron, is reported to be delayed and the developers aren't sure if they want to proceed. Edited May 30, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 30, 20205 yr ^ Bummer. I love that building and wish it could be put to good use. My hovercraft is full of eels
May 30, 20205 yr BTW, I didn't address something that @Htsguy said on the prior page. Yes, Library Lofts is delayed. The developers are waiting on the city to approve their final schematic design. Ditto for the 24-story tower just north of it. Looking at a Fall start date, rather than June. AND I forgot to include the Cleveland Museum of Natural History Phase 2, a $150 million project that has an estimated start date of March 2021 -- pending fundraising. Edited May 30, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 30, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: The Canopy Hotel in the old Ohio Bell Building, 750 Huron, is reported to be delayed and the developers aren't sure if they want to proceed. 2 hours ago, roman totale XVII said: ^ Bummer. I love that building and wish it could be put to good use. How much of the Ohio Bell building is in use currently? That building is a gem.
May 30, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, KJP said: The Canopy Hotel in the old Ohio Bell Building, 750 Huron, is reported to be delayed and the developers aren't sure if they want to proceed. I I think the this page was recent though, maybe last six months. Maybe they can do apt. https://www.toddinterests.com/750huron
May 31, 20205 yr Does anyone think now that so much of Cleveland is destroyed and who knows how much more damage will be done in the next couple of days that it will kill some if not all of these projects from ever happening?
May 31, 20205 yr Yes, of course. I am sick over this. Much progress then starting with the virus and now the riots I think a lot of projects and people will think twice about investing in downtown. It's easy to destroy and so hard to build. So much ignorance and fear on so many levels everywhere. Thousands of legit protesters get trumped by hundreds of anarchists and looters. Police don't know how to act. Political leadership is invisible. A lot of people are afraid and don't know what to do. Many will just pack up and leave. I'm hurting for my city. Same as it ever was.
May 31, 20205 yr Sick about the destruction and damage in our beloved hometown. It’s been such a long journey to rebuild this great city but so much damage done in literally one night. But this is not a local problem - it is a national one. Cities across the country including New York with similar problems last night. In that sense, I believe Cleveland will go forward just like these other cities will. Whether people will feel “comfortable” to continue to move downtown is the real question. Hopefully, the damage done is not going to change the fundamental attractiveness of the city as a great place to live and work.
May 31, 20205 yr It is really sad that this happened and unfortunately I don’t think it’s over. The police and National guard etc. need to defend the city at all costs. I don’t think a lot of the Businesses will even reopen ever again. Sadly I think it’s over for Heinens downtown because heinens claims they don’t make a profit downtown they just wanted to provide for Cleveland. It will cost more to fix the place up then it’s worth. It may just be over for Cleveland’s Revitalization.
May 31, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said: ^You do realize that businesses have insurance, right? You are right that they largely should. I worry about some of the smaller one having bad policies or no policy though. I'm also concerned about cash flow for these businesses. In normal times, they might be able to float for a bit until insurance payments come in, but post-COVID, they are already all in a cash tight position.
May 31, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, PAZUZU said: It is really sad that this happened and unfortunately I don’t think it’s over. The police and National guard etc. need to defend the city at all costs. I don’t think a lot of the Businesses will even reopen ever again. Sadly I think it’s over for Heinens downtown because heinens claims they don’t make a profit downtown they just wanted to provide for Cleveland. It will cost more to fix the place up then it’s worth. It may just be over for Cleveland’s Revitalization. You people amaze me....that you can even manage to get out of bed in the morning to face your next inevitable defeat. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 31, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, KJP said: You people amaze me....that you can even manage to get out of bed in the morning to face your next inevitable defeat. It is like they don't realize that this is not a Cleveland specific event, and that if this is the end of downtown Cleveland, then it will be the same for dozens of cities across the country-and I don't see that as likely. This is more likely a temporary setback. Even if some businesses are lost(and may have already been on the way out thanks to COVID-19), I think the "The renaissance of downtown Cleveland is over" stuff is very very premature.
May 31, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, Toddguy said: It is like they don't realize that this is not a Cleveland specific event, and that if this is the end of downtown Cleveland, then it will be the same for dozens of cities across the country-and I don't see that as likely. This is more likely a temporary setback. Even if some businesses are lost(and may have already been on the way out thanks to COVID-19), I think the "The renaissance of downtown Cleveland is over" stuff is very very premature. I've been waiting for hears for the corner of EUclid and E9 be filled up by a business. Years for the ground floor of the Standard to be rented out. Tower City completely dead for years. So I don't blame anyone concerned about long term vacancies of these once popular storefronts to become a real possibility.
May 31, 20205 yr 32 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: I've been waiting for hears for the corner of EUclid and E9 be filled up by a business. Years for the ground floor of the Standard to be rented out. Tower City completely dead for years. So I don't blame anyone concerned about long term vacancies of these once popular storefronts to become a real possibility. I understand your concerns, and I was not responding or commenting on a post you made. Especially combined with what has been happening with small business regarding the pandemic and the economy, I can understand the concern. But I still think it is premature for comments like "the revitalization of downtown may be over" and all-especially since events are ongoing, and these events are happening nationwide. I am sure your contribution to helping clean up the mess is appreciated as well.
June 1, 20205 yr This is just getting too political, unless there's news about rising events other than civil disobedience stay away from the development thread. We all know what's happening we don't need to grieve we need to look forward at what will and could be. This naysay political junkie stuff needs to go somewhere else.
June 1, 20205 yr According to this Crain's article, the 2208 Superior Viaduct tower is targeting a 2nd quarter start in 2021 https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/developers-plan-highrise-apartment-tower-along-superior-viaduct Edited June 1, 20205 yr by infrafreak specified the year
June 2, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, infrafreak said: According to this Crain's article, the 2208 Superior Viaduct tower is targeting a 2nd quarter start in 2021 https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/developers-plan-highrise-apartment-tower-along-superior-viaduct Dodge Reports says June 2021, so that would be late second quarter. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 2, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, KJP said: Dodge Reports says June 2021, so that would be late second quarter. Right at the cusp of Summer (starts June 20 in 2021) then, ignoring the fluid nature of any of these projects' timing. I'll take it! Edited June 2, 20205 yr by infrafreak
October 9, 20204 yr It is time once again to relive this thread. I would assume everyone says that City Club apartments is the next one to break ground. But what is Next? Is it SHW or something in between?
October 10, 20204 yr Author I would have to believe that Phase I of Circle Square will break ground before SHW.
October 10, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, Htsguy said: I would have to believe that Phase I of Circle Square will break ground before SHW. If we're talking about developments valued at, say, $50 million or more, I'd guess that's probably correct. But I've got that nagging feeling we're forgetting something. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 10, 20204 yr 53 minutes ago, KJP said: If we're talking about developments valued at, say, $50 million or more, I'd guess that's probably correct. But I've got that nagging feeling we're forgetting something. The classic KJP tease - does that something by chance start with an “N”?
October 10, 20204 yr 23 minutes ago, CleveFan said: The classic KJP tease - does that something by chance start with an “N”? Not a tease. Just overwhelmed with projects. Can't keep them all straight. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 10, 20204 yr Do you guys think the phase 3B Kennect will get off the ground as announced again for the 1st qtr 2021. If they do they would get off the ground before SHW
October 10, 20204 yr How can anyone answer that? Let's just see what today brings. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 11, 20204 yr 23 hours ago, KJP said: Not a tease. Just overwhelmed with projects. Can't keep them all straight. Maybe it's time for a database of projects?
October 11, 20204 yr What about this? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 11, 20204 yr Author Or we could go off topic and send this thread in a different direction as I think it has revealed the vagaries of development (that affect Cleveland and all urban areas) which are clearly a bit fascinating. When I first started this thread in October of 2014 I opined that the Brickman development on Duck Island would be the first. A number of other members of the forum agreed so I was not out in left field at the time. I argued that he was a developer with a proven track record, had been working on the project for a fair amount of time and had received some of the necessary approvals from the city to move forward among other things. Of course as I sit typing this today six years later, there is no Brickman Duck Island development and the land still sits empty. But the story does not end there. The land is now in the hands of another developer whose proposal (an ok apartment building but nothing like that original Brickman proposal or even his modified version) has just received final approval from the Planning Commission and appears to have all financing in place. I guess the point is that no matter how "sure a thing" a development appears to be, especially in comparison to other proposals, nothing is certain and the journey is often fraught with "dangers" and can turn out to be twisting and colorful (which of course drives us all nuts). More evidence of the vagaries of development, at the time I could not even put a name to the Lumen project but simply called it the rumored PlayHouse Square apartment building and in my mind it had a low chance of happening and certainly would not be built before the Brickman project. As we all know dozens of people woke up this morning and brushed their teeth in that building while squirrels are playing with each other on the Duck Island site. I also mentioned the "second Flats office building" in my original post. Six years on I don't even remember what I was referring to but it clearly did not happen. I also mentioned that of all the projects I was most excited about the Stark Nucleus development. Enough said on that point. It is also interesting to note that some projects not even contemplated by us all in October of 2014 are complete or have cranes on site (for example Church and State and Market Square) so there is also that positive twist to the story. It is great that we get excited about all the projects we are currently discussing, but like @KJP has often stated, and as history have revealed, not all of them will happen and the journey to completion may be long and twisted. Edited October 11, 20204 yr by Htsguy
October 11, 20204 yr And that @Htsguy piece, my friends, is why I don't make predictions about development. My wake-up-slap-in-the-face moment was the demolition of 1 Public Square and 33 Public Square for the Ameritrust supertall. As those 13- and 14-story buildings were being taken down, any sober development person in Cleveland was suddenly drunk with excitement over that sight. But the party ended quickly and the hangover has lasted 30 years -- so far. Will the SHW HQ finally fill that void? Probably. Is that for certain? Of course, not. There's no such thing. And that's OK. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 14, 20214 yr SCENE 26 Projects That Will, Or Could, Drastically Change Cleveland From May 1st, interesting list.
May 14, 20214 yr One of my favorite threads! The Scene article is a kind of cool clearinghouse, listing a lot of the projects we've been hearing about in one place. I didn't get the graphic about Cleveland State's expansion plans which showed at least a dozen new residential towers. If only!!! The crazy thing about the "Will change" category is that a few big definite projects aren't even mentioned, such as Circle Square, BridgeWater, City Club and I'll include the Justice Center. In the "could" category - it would've been neat for them to mention some "possibles", such as The Viaduct Tower, The Magellan Project, Lumen 2 and a possible new Browns stadium and redevelopment on the site of FES. And I'm probably forgetting more stuff! I know it's all speculative in that category, but if you're gonna do that article - hey, go for it!!
May 14, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, CleveFan said: One of my favorite threads! The Scene article is a kind of cool clearinghouse, listing a lot of the projects we've been hearing about in one place. I didn't get the graphic about Cleveland State's expansion plans which showed at least a dozen new residential towers. If only!!! The crazy thing about the "Will change" category is that a few big definite projects aren't even mentioned, such as Circle Square, BridgeWater, City Club and I'll include the Justice Center. In the "could" category - it would've been neat for them to mention some "possibles", such as The Viaduct Tower, The Magellan Project, Lumen 2 and a possible new Browns stadium and redevelopment on the site of FES. And I'm probably forgetting more stuff! I know it's all speculative in that category, but if you're gonna do that article - hey, go for it!! I'm still anxiously awaiting news on the Justice Center - another transformative project. I'm not sure that it is a candidate for "next" project but it should be on a list of possibles as well, no?
July 12, 20213 yr 4 minutes ago, KJP said: They're trying to make the numbers work -- too much expense/not enough capital. They're probably going to have to go after a TMUD credit. @KJP in your estimation how many of the projects are dependent on TMUD. Centennial, Magellan, Bridgeworks, Nucleus, others?
July 12, 20213 yr Definitely Centennial, likely Magellan, Bridgeworks, Westinghouse, Richman Brothers, Lutheran Hospital parking lot, a larger nuCLEus and possibly The Viaduct (if the developer can find a partner with the capacity to deliver). "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20213 yr Author 6 minutes ago, KJP said: Definitely Centennial, likely Magellan, Bridgeworks, Westinghouse, Richman Brothers, Lutheran Hospital parking lot, a larger nuCLEus and possibly The Viaduct (if the developer can find a partner with the capacity to deliver). So Viaduct is still alive (even if on life support). When you state " partner with the capacity to deliver" do you mean expertise or $$.
July 12, 20213 yr Author 11 minutes ago, KJP said: Definitely Centennial, likely Magellan, Bridgeworks, Westinghouse, Richman Brothers, Lutheran Hospital parking lot, a larger nuCLEus and possibly The Viaduct (if the developer can find a partner with the capacity to deliver). Also a couple of these projects are just in our imagination at this time (specifically Magellan and Lutheran Hospital). If they do make an application won't they actually have to have detail plans which they will have to reveal to US.
July 12, 20213 yr 38 minutes ago, Htsguy said: So Viaduct is still alive (even if on life support). When you state " partner with the capacity to deliver" do you mean expertise or $$. Both. United Community Developers doesn't have the expertise or equity to build The Viaduct. It's such a wonderfully designed project that I'm hopeful another developer will step in and take over the project from UCD. Magellan and Lutheran Lots are desires of developers with the capacity to deliver them. Just the numbers don't pencil for them without a big subsidy like TMUD. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20213 yr 37 minutes ago, KJP said: Definitely Centennial, likely Magellan, Bridgeworks, Westinghouse, Richman Brothers, Lutheran Hospital parking lot, a larger nuCLEus and possibly The Viaduct (if the developer can find a partner with the capacity to deliver). KJP, may you elaborate on a “larger nuCLEus?” Would it be anything close to the original project they proposed?
July 12, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, BuckeyeNative said: KJP, may you elaborate on a “larger nuCLEus?” Would it be anything close to the original project they proposed? The smaller version of nuCLEus can be built without TMUD. But they will seek a TMUD credit, possibly for a larger version. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20213 yr How about Tower City City Block aren't they seeking a TMUD? Anything New on City Club Groundbreaking?
July 12, 20213 yr 6 minutes ago, simplythis said: How about Tower City City Block aren't they seeking a TMUD? Anything New on City Club Groundbreaking? There's something pending with Tower City (but haven't heard anything about Blockland in a long time) but I don't know what it is. The Riverview phase should probably be added to the list. Don't know if it will be among this year's TMUD applications. Nothing new on City Club since my last article. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 12, 20213 yr My vote(s) would be: -Wherever CLF decides to build their new HQ. The reason being it sounds like they need to space and are looking to move quickly. I don't know if they consider Nucleus for their space or Magellan but wherever they go, I'd assume their presence would be a major infusion to a given project. -New Courthouse Tower. This is a bit selfish - because I want to see what they come up with. Also, I'm hoping the potential $$ savings from a new building is enough to move this project to the head of the class. No insider knowledge - just reading the tea leaves and a little wishful thinking
July 12, 20213 yr There might be far more developers eyeing TMUD credits than there will be money available. I hope they have a plan B for funding, or a smaller scaled project in their pocket that's actually viable.
July 12, 20213 yr 12 minutes ago, Mendo said: There might be far more developers eyeing TMUD credits than there will be money available. I hope they have a plan B for funding, or a smaller scaled project in their pocket that's actually viable. I have no doubts about the former, but some doubts about the latter. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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