This is exciting.  Downtown has incredible momentum right now.  The last building boom like this would be the 1920s. 

The 1980s were pretty active with new office towers. I can think of seven towers built in the 80s. A decent amount were built in the 60s and 70s too.

FRIDAY, JANUARY 15, 2016

Cleveland ready to scrape the skies more

By Ken Prendergast

 

The pace of investment in America's cities has been one of the remarkable stories since the end of the Great Recession. There are few places where that investment is more evident than in Greater Cleveland which in 2014 ranked ninth in the nation in total new construction jobs (not percentage of change).

 

Much of that is for renovating historic buildings, rebuilding infrastructure and some modest new buildings. Anyone who has spent time downtown or in neighborhoods like Asiatown, Gordon Square, Little Italy, Ohio City, Tremont or University Circle in recent years has seen orange barrels, scaffolding and construction crews everywhere.

 

With the rebuilding of Cleveland's foundation substantially underway and the region's economy pivoted away from manufacturing (only 11 percent of the metro area's employment), most renovation-related work is about to transition to new construction. Big time.

 

MORE:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2016/01/cleveland-ready-to-scrape-skies-more.html

Awesome image!  Shouldn't there be a new building at the end of E 9th St as well?

The 2 -story restaurant on the pier, the Geis parking lot, or the multimodal transit center?  All of the above?

Redirecting from the ranking of cities thread, a present two graphics by w28th[/member] ....

 

 

 

Hopefully it looks something like this soon...

 

I count 10 new buildings in that (not including your completing of the E&Y tower and the Hilton). Some of them are actually proposed towers that I'm familiar with. Are all of them proposed?

 

EDIT: I'm pretty sure they're all proposed. I'm confused about the tall one on the left. Is that the Playhouse Square residential tower or a new Justice Center? And I'm confused by the new one you've placed overlapping the Fifth Third tower.

The one to the east is the Playhouse Square tower. Overlapping 5/3 is the old Hippodrome site. We can dream can't we...

 

Hippodrome site would actually be a good location for the new Justice Center, not so much for the jail though...

Just when you thought this thread couldn't get more intriguing, I get an email from an address I didn't recognize. All they had in the subject line was "from a long time visitor of your site" with some technical specs and these two images. What does everyone think? I guess I like the design but was really hoping for something more substantial for the Public Square site. It seems as though they're trying to continue the flow of the reworking onto Rockwell but it's hard to tell from these renderings. I uploaded the specs to my site if anyone is interested: http://tinyurl.com/juj3l6r

 

 

That's very concerning....it doesn't front any of the streets around it. I would absolutely protest this design if it turns out to be true/current/etc. Nothing should be allowed to be built like that in the core of a city anymore. We learned how terrible buildings like this feel from a pedestrian standpoint and need policy in place to fight their construction.

 

That and it's a tiny building for a site that should house something large enough to actually compliment the three towers around Public Square.

:)

Not bad. Needs more green space. Maybe they can line the perimeter with those angled parking spots?

Yeah, April Fools lol

"Gennsler" nicely done.

Nice. I miss this Mayday tradition.

Beware, for better or worse, Mayday's April fools jokes are prophetic.

 

Oh dammit. I forgot what day it was...I was all nervous lol.

I'm still waiting for that high rise where the riverside fire station is on Scranton Peninsula....

sizzlinbeef, where did you dig that up from? Too funny!

sizzlinbeef, where did you dig that up from? Too funny!

 

I believe that was the 2011 edition from the CC/Medmart thread.

I still am fond of the metallic Erieview Tower haha

That was hysterical. I just went on an emotional roller coaster. Thanks, Mayday :)

You got me too. This coming from someone who has lost any and all respect for Columbus Underground in the last two days lol. Sherwin w/ a mid-rise on that site makes a lot of sense actually, as they are growing but would never vacate Tower City.

 

1) That looks awesome, sizzlinbeef.

2) Does anyone have any inside knowledge about the Brickman Duck Island project? Are they still having issues gaining site control? Is there any chance they will be starting work anytime soon?

 

I question that Brickman has the capacity for that AND everything else he's doing.

Very interesting graphic, from the "ranking of cities thread" from W28 and KJP showing us the possible future skyline of Cleveland - if all of the

proposed projects materialize. And if they do, wow - it really creates a big-city look.  It would be great if the buildings in that graphic

could be labeled, for those of us who are not experts - if that can be done, it would be most appreciated.

  Reading through some recent posts in the thread, I noticed the comparisons to the last comparable building boom, by decade.  Turns out that

the 20's yielded 8 major high rise buildings, the 30's produced 4 (including, of course, the Terminal Tower) and then there was a 27 year drought

until the late 50's produced 2 major buildings.  There were 7 built in the 60's, including Erieview, and 13 in the 70's, featuring the dreaded Justice Tower.  The 80's gave us 6 bigs, including 200 Public Square. There were 6 major high rise projects in the 90's, featuring the Key Tower, plus the R&RHF.  Since 2000, we've added four major high rise buildings, including the new Hilton.  Let's hope the rest of this decade actually results in the next building boom - seems like we're on the verge. 

I was thinking about doing it, but haven't been able to spare some time to do it.

Here ya go....

 

2012:

 

2025?

If I have time this week I could maybe add the Weston project with its actually proposed buildings.  With Medical Mutual being basically right next door to the Hippodrome site (executives probably even park in Krenzler's garage), I wonder if they've considered it. If that doesn't work out I hope they go to Weston. Im hoping Sherwin is a lock for Public Square.

I was tempted to label the Hippodrome as the Medical Mutual building and the Jacobs Lot tower as Sherwin Williams, but who knows what will go where.... So the only thing we know for sure is the name of those two build-to-suit locations.

 

And you could even throw in there a 25-story tower for the new Justice Center and a 30-story tower for the jail/CPD HQ. So your 2025 downtown massing is as yet incomplete. :)

What is the "Hippodrome Tower"?  Where is it located?  Has there been speculation of development there?

Thanks so much KJP!!  Very informative post showing which project is which in that skyline view.  Hopefully, a good bit of that skyline becomes reality closer to 2020 - the latest Nucleus news suggests a possible late 18/ early 19 opening and the superblock seems fairly certain by then as well.  I know we're still guessing about what will happen on the Jacobs lot and I can't help wonder if anything close to the scope of the Ameritrust project could still happen.  As for the Hippodrome Tower - I would love to know more about that project - haven't heard much of anything previously.

What is the "Hippodrome Tower"?  Where is it located?  Has there been speculation of development there?

 

There is no actual Hippodrome Tower. What KJP is referring to is the parking deck/surface lot on Euclid Ave. just east of 668 Euclid Ave. The set back parking deck at that location actually has two surface lots along with it. One of the surface lots is on Prospect Ave., and the other is the one on Euclid Ave. Both of these surface lots could support office/apt-condo towers. From  knowing the two surface lots, it looks like each of the lots could support buildings in the range of 22k - 25k square feet per floor (only guessing though).

 

On the Euclid Ave side of this spot, maybe Prospect Ave too, but I'm not sure, there was a building called the Hippodrome Theatre, but it was demolished around 1981. Below is a picture of the former Hippodrome Theatre building.

 

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2014/07/22/15457402-standard.jpg

Thanks BCCLE1!!!  Great information. Amazing picture, wish that building was still standing.

 

This is a fantastic development site. I hope the property owner can put something together.

A little more history about the south side of Euclid Ave. and E. 9th St. Back around 1980 give or take a few years, there was a proposed development that was not built. This undeveloped project would have stretched from E. 9th St west to the old Hippodrome Theatre building site. It also would have called for the demolition of the City Club Building, and the Schofield Building. At the time of this proposal, back around 1980, there was not as big a movement as today to save buildings from the 1890's - 1920's, so Cleveland would have lost not only the Hippodrome Theatre building, but also the Schofield and the City Club buildings.

 

The obvious good to come out of this unbuilt development was the restored Schofield building into the just recently opened Kimpton Hotel and Apts. Plus the City Club building is still standing.

 

Here is a picture of the unbuilt proposal from around 1980: http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/cleveland/e9euclidproject.jpg

 

IMO, the Prospect Ave. side of the "Hippodrome Building" site as KJP referred to it would be a possible site for the new MM HQ. When MM sells their old HQ, I also think the Marous Brothers Co would be a good choice to have purchase it to convert to apt-condo's.

 

 

I like the height and the fact that the tower is built to the street but thank god it didn't happen. It's too bad the PNC tower across the street wasn't built more like this design.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the Euclid Ave side of this spot, maybe Prospect Ave too, but I'm not sure, there was a building called the Hippodrome Theatre, but it was demolished around 1981. Below is a picture of the former Hippodrome Theatre building.

 

http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/2014/07/22/15457402-standard.jpg

 

Cool photo. Immediate to the east of the Hippodrome Bldg is a tiny little building--like 2 stories--very interesting looking.

 

 

 

 

2025?

 

Looks like a mini Chicago gold coast skyline!

 

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

thats great and a very reasonable and do-able near future skyline. that jacobs lot tower is going to need to be taller though. like a lot taller.

Just six towers of 25 stories or more makes a big difference in the skyline. And one of those six is the Weston Superblock which could be as many as four towers. Nor does this include a new Justice Center/jail.

From that angle especially - this would differentiate CLE's skyline from many other cities in the Midwest...let's hope these get done!

I also hope a good number of these new towers don't just have flat tops.

Thank you all for the updates. It's great to see so much excitement about what's happening downtown.

My wish is that the new towers will continue the recent trend of architectural excellence and distinction we see in the Key Tower, Hilton Cleveland and nuCLEus. It is nice to see so many proposals of significant size. Hopefully most, if not all, will happen.

That would be a very impressive skyline!

 

So, the Hippodrome tower could be the Medical Mutual tower and the Jacobs lot tower could be the Sherwin Williams tower given the proximity to their current locations.  We could have three 500+ foot towers built including Nucleus which would change the skyline in a big way.

 

I don't have insider information, but I am thinking Sherwin Williams is going to build on the empty lot in front of the Lebron James mural.  Then, they could attach it with the current building and reduce the amount of new space that they would need.  The current building could be split into residential and offices.  I think they own the land anyway.

 

A couple of comments on the height of the buildings in the future skyline mock up.  The office building part of Nucleus is supposed to be 300 feet, so it should be much taller.  The Playhouse Square and 515 buildings are going to be residential, so they will be nowhere near as tall as depicted.

Medical Mutual hasn't decided if it will build a new tower and if so where it will be. The Hippodrome Tower is only a suggestion not an actual project.

 

Sherwin Williams' most recent HQ search did not include the LeBron James mural site. And yes that is based on insider info.

 

A 300-foot-tall office tower is about 30 stories. At standard floor plate sizes of 30,000 square feet, that's 900,000 square feet. NuCLEus is planning only 200,000 square feet of office space. If built as proposed, it will be 54 stories. From the lake it will look about the same size as 200 Public Square.

 

The Playhouse Square tower is proposed to be 30 stories including the parking pedestal and 515 Euclid can be as tall as 29, including the 9 levels of existing parking and ground-level uses.

Playhouse Square tower may be a bit taller in the image  than what we've heard but Nucleus and 515 are right on.

If they all get built that would be great, obviously.  However, I wonder how many people would ever see the skyline from the lake?  I would like to see the "potential" skyline from the vantage point most people will see the skyline; ie I-77, I-71 and both shoreways....yes, on Urbanohio beggars can be choosers  :-P

I like the way you think STRIVE2THRIVE, but that would be quite an undertaking. I have considered taking the NuCLEus skyline rendering into Photoshop to do just that, but was scared off by the time commitment. A view of this proposed skyline from Innerbelt bridge would be impressive though.

This was kindof done earlier in this thread, though not all of the proposed bldgs are there--see: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29704.msg786492.html#msg786492

Medical Mutual hasn't decided if it will build a new tower and if so where it will be. The Hippodrome Tower is only a suggestion not an actual project.

 

Sherwin Williams' most recent HQ search did not include the LeBron James mural site. And yes that is based on insider info.

 

A 300-foot-tall office tower is about 30 stories. At standard floor plate sizes of 30,000 square feet, that's 900,000 square feet. NuCLEus is planning only 200,000 square feet of office space. If built as proposed, it will be 54 stories. From the lake it will look about the same size as 200 Public Square.

 

The Playhouse Square tower is proposed to be 30 stories including the parking pedestal and 515 Euclid can be as tall as 29, including the 9 levels of existing parking and ground-level uses.

 

Not trying to be argumentative, but the Nucleus PDF from the Stark Enterprises website had the office building as 304 feet.  There are 12 or 13 levels of garage and then seven stories of offices, and then the hotel (5 stories) on top of that, so this is really a mixed use building and not strictly office space.  So, it will only be about 60 feet shorter than the AT&T building.

 

For Playhouse and 515 buildings, since these are residential buildings and there will be about 10 feet per floor putting them at about 300 feet.  The BF Keith building is between 250 and 300 feet, so the Playhouse building will be somewhat taller than it.  515 Euclid will be about 100 feet shorter than the Fifth Third Bank.

 

But, it is a great view of the future skyline.

If the office component is 304 feet (got a link to the PDF?), then the floorplates must be very small. Is that second tower column that doesn't continue above the hotel "bridge"?

Below is the link to the pdf.

 

http://www.starkenterprises.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/OH_Cleveland_nuCLEus_iPad.pdf

 

It still shows the office building having 200,000 square feet and I know that it was reduced to 130,000 square feet, so who knows how that is going to change things.  There are only 7 floors of office space, so it would be about 28,500 square feet per floor assuming that there is a total of 200,000 square feet.

 

But, it shows that the top of the hotel is 304 feet and it is on top of the building, so at the skyline view, it will look like one building at that distance.  The office building in the rendering as seen from the Q also makes it look quite small and I don't think that it is accurate.

 

 

I've really enjoyed looking at those great graphics by W28 and Sizzlin' Beef  showing the proposed new high rise construction in the city from two perspectives.  On Sizzlin' Beef's graphic - Does the blue-highlighted building to the far right represent the PHS Apartment tower?

And if the shorter tower of Nucleus is 304 feet high - I think it should be almost exactly the same height as 55 Public Square (300 feet). 

Also, I wondered if the taller of the buildings in the Weston Superblock, in both perspectives, represents the proposed 38 story tower - if so, I wonder if it should be a little taller - but I see it is consistent in both Sizzlin' and W28's versions.  Do we know the exact height of the tallest Weston tower?  One last question - shouldn't the Federal Court House Tower look a little taller since it is only 10 feet shorter than the Justice Building?

I  think that because of the great height of Key Tower, particularly ( along with the TT and 200 PS) that we really need a couple of 500+ feet towers to really change the impact of our skyline.  We already have 23 skyscrapers with between 20 and 29 stories - and 3 others over 30 stories - but even a dynamic building like the Hilton, at 32 stories, can get a little lost, from certain perspectives.   

After reading the forum tonight, it seems as if the projected future skyline might be more elusive than I thought, since "515" may be waiting for more state funding $ and the PHS project looks like it will be only an improved parking lot for awhile. Of course, if we get Nucleus on the scale originally presented, it's a game changer and hopefully, that major tower on Public Square comes to fruition very soon. 

 

 

515 Euclid already has its parking pedestal. That project is finishing it's final design will hopefully go before Planning Commission soon. The PHS tower is awaiting state funding for construction of the parking pedestal. The Greyhound block is what will be limited to improved parking until the city can build the new Greyhound station on the lakefront.

On Sizzlin' Beef's graphic - Does the blue-highlighted building to the far right represent the PHS Apartment tower?

And if the shorter tower of Nucleus is 304 feet high - I think it should be almost exactly the same height as 55 Public Square (300 feet). 

Also, I wondered if the taller of the buildings in the Weston Superblock, in both perspectives, represents the proposed 38 story tower - if so, I wonder if it should be a little taller - but I see it is consistent in both Sizzlin' and W28's versions. 

PHS tower - yes.  I was eyeballing everything based on renderings and comparative heights to surrounding buildings, so don't take my massings as having any legitimacy.  The only building I spent more than a few minutes on was Nucleus.