I really don't see a need to remodel either!  It's not the best but it sure doesn't look dated!

I tend to agree and think management might be the problem and their lack of innovation. 

Hmm, well the article from a year ago said that their plan would not show any positive results soon BUT it would focus on west Fourth St.  Could it be that the Soapbox District is part of their plan?  Does anybody know if there's a team from Northeastern Securities Development Corp working on the promotion of that district?

I really don't see a need to remodel either!  It's not the best but it sure doesn't look dated!

I tend to agree and think management might be the problem and their lack of innovation.  

 

It's the same plight of Columbus' City Center. I've already explained it on here based on what I've recieved in emails. I guess you could blame it on mismanagement but neither one of us knows many details about that.

 

I'll dig up some old emails for you. I'm not saying who I spoke with for privacy reasons.

 

"I used to be very passionate about downtown Cinti, but

no more.  When I was in high school, the CBD's of most all comparable

Midwest cities were struggling.  The only exception was downtown

Cincinnati which at the time, was a thriving commercial and retail

center.  In fact, as I recall it had five operating department stores.

To-be-sure, the retail industry has changed dramatically over the years,

but it is shameful that the city did not take (and still does not take),

necessary measures to maintain and restore its CBD.  There have been

many trends that have worked against the commercial viability of

traditional CBD's, but in my opinion, what has happened to downtown is

primarily a result of an incompetent and ineffective local government.

Other comparable cities are light-years ahead of Cincy.

 

Regarding Tower Place, my company manages the center, which I believe is

about to be sold along with the entire Carew Tower complex.  I do not

know what plans the new owners may have. 

 

I am sure there are alternative uses for Tower Place and other

developments that are challenged.  (By the way, I understand Newport on

the Levee a'int doing so hot either) The use you suggested may be

plausible though I don't think that something so drastic is required at

this point and the economics of the conversion would be difficult.  It

would also be shame to "throw in the towel" and concede this project and

all of downtown Cincinnati for that matter has no future as a viable

commercial district.  However without meaning political change, in my

opinion, the writing is on the wall!

 

I'd would be happy to speak with you in more detail if you wish."

 

2nd email:

"It would be a great draw to fill Tower Place with a some really great

specialty stores.  The problem is that the stores, like those you

mentioned are extremely difficult to attract and are VERY costly.

Stores of that calibre would only consider top notch properties that are

already proven to be successful or have great potential.  And even then,

the economics of those lease deals are extremely thin.  I am developing

a retail "town center" just outside of Princeton, New Jersey which

demographics that are "off the charts" and has very few places for

retailers to locate.  We have approached all of the tenants you

mentioned and it is VERY difficult to even get their attention.  Perhaps

a strategy of putting together a bunch of local specialty operators

would make some sense.  But the problem is what local tenants are really

worth a rip and their credit will surely be of issue.  No easy answers,

but the challenge is the fun of it all!..."

That is very interesting!

Someone on here mentioned how suburban malls get heavily subsidized. Cincinnati would have to really step up to the plate in that regard.

David, how old are those emails?

Right before TPM was sold.

Mall remodels almost never have a positive ROI. People want a clean, safe, well-maintained mall. Remodeling every three years does not make people spend. The only successful indoor mall remodeling I can think of is Eastland. Eastgate didn't tank, but I don't think they saw any profit from it. Most of the time, a mall melts down only a few years after it is remodeled -- Northland and Forest Fair come to mind.

Mall remodels almost never have a positive ROI. People want a clean, safe, well-maintained mall. Remodeling every three years does not make people spend. The only successful indoor mall remodeling I can think of is Eastland. Eastgate didn't tank, but I don't think they saw any profit from it. Most of the time, a mall melts down only a few years after it is remodeled -- Northland and Forest Fair come to mind.

 

You forgot about Kenwood. Kenwood wouldn't be where it is now if they didn't add the streetscape. I may be wrong but I don't think Bose, Kenneth Cole, Sony Style, and some others were there before construction. I wish the city could subsize those spaces for retailers in O'Bryonville, Hyde Park, Mt. Adams, OTR, Northside etc who may have good credit and are looking to expand.

I wouldn't put Kenwood in the same camp. They expanded the Mall and added new retailers. Just redoing the mall is a waste - Forest Fair is the best example.

^Right, Kenwood was more like a conversion than a simple remodel.

I wouldn't put Kenwood in the same camp. They expanded the Mall and added new retailers. Just redoing the mall is a waste - Forest Fair is the best example.

 

Right.  If you've been in the area for any length of time, you'll remember that the interior of Kenwood Towne Center looks EXACTLY the same as it did in the early 1990s.  They landed some higher-end tenants, refaced the exterior, and made a success out of it.

 

Now if anyone remembers the old Kenwood Mall that was across the street...that's a different story.  They coexisted for several years.  Barely.

They've updated Kenwood inside to some exent. Adding the streetscape definitely contributed to their success - they didn't have a Cheesecake Factory among other things before that. Still, conversion, remodel, subsidizing retailers, either way, Tower Place needs to do something. When that exec. at Madison Marquette responded to my question saying that conversion is costly, it was after I put out some ideas such as converting it into office space, a small college, and some other ideas I had floating around at the time that I can't remember now lol. Where would that money come from? I think it would have to come from the city. The new owners clearly can't afford it. They're content with dollar stores moving in.

I wonder if Pogues could open up there.

I think any changes that Tower Place needs to make involves signage on the outside and marketing.  The current signs are  easy to miss if you're walking past.  It would also be nice if all stores on the street level had entrances from the street.  They also don't seem to market well, if at all. 

 

I do not think the interior needs work. 

Melanaie got it right.  The stores at street-level need to allow access from street-level (much like what Kenwood did with their addition trying to mimic an urban environment).  Signage also needs to improve dramatically.  I have run in to people several times Downtown where they are asking how to get to Tower Place.  Right now Macy's is seeing an up tick in sales at their Downtown store thanks to Downtown's turnaround...I'm not sure that TPM is experiencing the success.

I never knew about Tower Place until I stumbled upon it.

Maybe so but I think most people downtown do know it exists and where where it is.

Maybe so but I think most people downtown do know it exists and where where it is.

 

Granted, I had just moved here, Max Headroom. hehe

It looks like they are currently stocking merchandise in the Dollar store that will be opening the old Gap location.  Most of the windows are covered, but there is a small gap (no pun intended) inside Tower Place where you can see just a little bit into the space.

I never knew about Tower Place until I stumbled upon it.

 

Same here. I only knew about it because I stumbled upon it while staying at the Westin, before I ever moved to Cincinnati.

 

Since I moved here, I've never heard a reference to it, outside of this thread. I wouldn't have even known it existed.

Since I moved here, I've never heard a reference to it, outside of this thread. I wouldn't have even known it existed.

 

They definitely need to do a better job with marketing (if they are even doing any at all). 

My first visit to Cincinnati, I was standing in Fountain Square and asked a local if there were any malls around.  He made no mention of Tower Place but he did say, "well if you want a crappy mall go across the river there to Newport on the Levee.  Or if you want a real mall go to Kenwood."  I wanted to check it all out so I went to Newport and Kenwood, but had Tower Place even been hinted at I would've gone.

^No one in Cincinnati even thinks of it as a mall. There's barely anything left.

^No one in Cincinnati even thinks of it as a mall. There's barely anything left.

 

The Food Court, a.k.a. Towerplace Mall

Huff Realty assumes leasing duty for Cincinnati's ailing Tower Place mall

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/02/story11.html

 

The leasing of Tower Place mall has been shifted to Huff Realty from CB Richard Ellis, as the new owner seeks ways to fill the struggling center in the midst of a recession.

What ever happened with the idea to turn it into a beer hall of fame and have a beer garden there?  Maybe I'm making that up, I can't remember, it was probably years ago that I remember reading something on that.

What about putting a nice gym (like Urban Active's Bellvue location) in there?  People would go there directly after work, which would drive much needed foot traffic through the mall.  Even if they let something like that move in at a loss, they could at least use it to attract other tenants.

^ There's already a gym in the basement of Carew.

 

 

Seriously?  I had no idea.

What ever happened with the idea to turn it into a beer hall of fame and have a beer garden there? Maybe I'm making that up, I can't remember, it was probably years ago that I remember reading something on that.

 

The beer guys just disappeared. I don't know if they were ever serious about it or not. And I think it going in Carew was speculation anyway.

Seriously? I had no idea.

 

The Gym at Carew Tower

 

http://downtowncincinnati.com/cgi-bin/listestab.cgi?est_id=1261

 

There are at least three athletic clubs in downtown Cincinnati, plus the YMCA in OTR.

Tower Place, itself once the jewel of downtown retailing, has in the past five years lost many tenants, including Williams-Sonoma, Godiva Chocolatier, Banana Republic, the Gap and Ann Taylor. The retailer A Dollar filled the Gap space in October but recently closed after its temporary lease expired. On Jan. 24, Brentano’s book store closed. Key tenants now include Nine West, Victoria’s Secret and Churchill’s Tea Room.

 

I really hope Huff does a good job with Tower Place. 

 

Brentano's is a big loss.  I received an email telling me where the other Waldenbooks/Borders locations are in the area, but they are not convenient. 

 

I think it's odd that the dollar store only had a temporary lease, especially after all the press over it.  It seems strange to take a storefront that size and redo it for only a few months.  Last weekend I noticed that it was still full of merchandise. 

Seriously? I had no idea.

 

Yep, this is where I work out.

I'd probably work out there too, if I worked downtown.  Looks like a good option.

Seriously? I had no idea.

 

Yep, this is where I work out.

 

I saw that gym one time. It's quite hidden!

It's called "They Gym at Carew Tower" original, I know.  I went there a couple times.  I want to get a membership there.  I met with the head guy there.  He's pretty cool.

I hope the Brentano's closing sets in motion the installtion of a flagship sized book store, prererably a Jo-Beth, since there is a B&N at NOTL. 

I hope the Brentano's closing sets in motion the installtion of a flagship sized book store, prererably a Jo-Beth, since there is a B&N at NOTL.

 

That would be wonderful.  I know I can order anything I want off of Amazon, but it's not the same as walking around a bookstore and actually picking up the books.

It's called "They Gym at Carew Tower" original, I know. I went there a couple times. I want to get a membership there. I met with the head guy there. He's pretty cool.

 

Seriously?  It's named like a subdivision!

I think Brentanos was the last of the original tenants?

 

 

I think Brentanos was the last of the original tenants?

 

 

 

fye, which used to be Camelot, is still there. 

I sort of miss the glory days of Tower Place.  It was a fun place to shop.  Too bad not enough other people thought so too.

 

 

I sort of miss the glory days of Tower Place. It was a fun place to shop. Too bad not enough other people thought so too.

 

 

 

It was, and I remember shopping there when I was in high school.  I think the additional malls in the area also killed it.  When Tower Place first opened, several of the stores had at most one other location in the area.  That changed as more malls were built.  I also don't think the mall was well-marketed.

I think Brentano's closing should be grouped with the collapse of the bookstore world more than anything about dt Cincy. The same company is closing the Borders in Springdale ('cause they don't read) and the Waldenbooks in KTC, because they are supposed to open a new Borders by the Crate and Barrel. It is just so hard to keep a bookstore operating these days, if your name isn't Barnes or Noble.

I think Brentanos was the last of the original tenants?

 

 

 

fye, which used to be Camelot, is still there.

 

Isn't the athletic shoe store (foot locker or whatever) an original tennant?

Tower Place closer to revival

Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Lisa Biank Fasig Staff Reporter

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/09/daily27.html

 

 

The city’s economic development committee approved an emergency ordinance allowing the mall owner, New York-based Northeastern Security Development Corp., to divide the property in a way that would make it more valuable for financing purposes. As such, it would be able to get the loans necessary to do the garage work.

 

According to Northeastern, which acquired Tower Place in August 2007, the garage is more financially viable than the mall, so separating them would make it easier to get financing.

 

That's kind of depressing.

Garage parking is usually fairly profitable, especially if acquired and not built.  It has steady cash flow that is usually pretty good in a CBD and extremely low operating costs.  The economics of the operations are usually off set by extremely high land costs.

Tower Place is done!  Turn it into offices, keep the food court open for Downtown Workers and continue to work to fill the Carew Tower Atrium.  Please do us all a favor and keep a "mall" out of Downtown Cincinnati.  Force retailers to open traditional urban storefronts in the CBD if they are interested in opening a retail store in the city.

 

BTW does anyone know how the Joseph A. Banks is doing since it opened a couple of years ago?