Dear Lord.  Never in my wildest dreams would I have conceived of changing the shape of Erkenbrecker. 

 

So is the ER going to move into this new tower? 

And the destruction of single-family homes in Uptown to make way for bigger mega-blocks continues.

So Erkenbrecker is now going to intersect with Burnett...twice.  Great. 

 

Also, Childrens continues to physically expand in a direction -- in fact the only direction -- away from Vine or MLK, the two places where a light rail line would conceivably be built.  Right now a light rail line on the north side of MLK with a station at Burnett will be almost 3,000 feet from this new building. 

And the destruction of single-family homes in Uptown to make way for bigger mega-blocks continues.

 

Megablocks, not so much. Tearing down single family? I think this is entirely appropriate for this district.

Actually, most of them are 2-4 unit homes. 

 

Almost zero hospital workers work anywhere close.  The staff seems to think nothing of driving in from Indiana or Clermont County. 

So Erkenbrecker is now going to intersect with Burnett...twice.  Great. 

 

No the abandoned right-of-way becomes part of the facility. It looks like the intersection at Wilson and Hearne Ave will become a 3-way T intersection which will be a headache to navigate with the Erkenbrecker S just mere feet away.

For years, Children's Hospital has owned all or most of the homes that are part of the expansion.  There are multiple LLCs that own the homes but they all have the same specific lawyer as the registered agent, so it is safe to assume Children's is behind them. 

 

I couldn't find an easy map that showed the all the current owners at once, but the same registered agent nearly owns everything within the four blocks between the zoo and Ronald McDonald House.

 

Hearne and Wilson will not intersect with the new Erkenbrecher.  It is hard to see but it is a landscaped area separating them. 

Actually, most of them are 2-4 unit homes. 

 

Almost zero hospital workers work anywhere close.  The staff seems to think nothing of driving in from Indiana or Clermont County. 

 

Healthcare is the factory work of the past. If men didn't almost all refuse to work in healthcare there really wouldn't be any work for women living out in the sticks.

For years, Children's Hospital has owned all or most of the homes that are part of the expansion.  There are multiple LLCs that own the homes but they all have the same specific lawyer as the registered agent, so it is safe to assume Children's is behind them. 

 

I couldn't find an easy map that showed the all the current owners at once, but the same registered agent nearly owns everything within the four blocks between the zoo and Ronald McDonald House.

 

Hearne and Wilson will not intersect with the new Erkenbrecher.  It is hard to see but it is a landscaped area separating them. 

 

You can go to CAGIS Maps and use the labels option to turn on owners:

 

 

It's little bit tough to read when you're zoomed out, though. Bace Properties owns quite a lot of properties on those blocks.

^Thanks, I was on CAGIS but didn't see that option.

 

All those LLCs, including BACE, have the same mailing address and registered agent.

Actually, most of them are 2-4 unit homes. 

 

Almost zero hospital workers work anywhere close.  The staff seems to think nothing of driving in from Indiana or Clermont County. 

 

Umm do you not realize there are a crazy amount of doctors, pharmacists, researchers, psychologists and even nurses who live in the downtown basin?

^They are a small percentage of the workforce.  They wouldn't need a dozen gigantic parking garages if everyone was walking or taking the bus. 

^They are a small percentage of the workforce.  They wouldn't need a dozen gigantic parking garages if everyone was walking or taking the bus. 

 

I'm not claiming they are taking public transit.  If anything they should do more to promote and increase it among there workers.  I don' think I know a single employee who does and I know a significant amount of them who live in the basin.

Children’s Hospital reveals cost, appearance of biggest project ever

 

 

Cincinnati Children’s Hospital Medical Center expects construction of a massive patient tower and related infrastructure on the Avondale campus to cost up to $650 million, making it the most expensive project ever undertaken by the nonprofit.

 

“In current dollars, this will be the largest single investment that our institution has ever made,” said Michael Fisher, CEO of the hospital.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/17/first-look-children-s-hospital-reveals-cost.html

Cincinnati Children’s wouldn’t take on any new debt to pay for the project, said Mark Mumford, chief financial officer.

 

To be able to finance a $650 million project without taking on any debt is truly stunning.

To be able to finance a $650 million project without taking on any debt is truly stunning.

 

How in the hell does a hospital have that much cash on hand?  I drove by this past weekend and the old arab-run gas station on Burnett that was once a beehive of drug dealing is fenced off.  Looks like they'll be clearing the site for this expansion very soon. 

 

In other news, the new apartments on Northern are done or are almost done.  Looks like the land around the Cincinnati Herald + parking garage is being held for a Banks or U Square-type housing development, but the area in between Harvey and Reading is still in ruinous condition.  You have to wonder if they're purposefully running it down so as to make it cheaper to buy, if they don't own it already. 

 

 

 

Cincinnati Children’s Hospital expanding its Uptown office space

 

One of Uptown’s major institutions, Cincinnati Children’s Hospital, is expanding its office space in Avondale.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/18/cincinnati-children-s-hospital-expanding-its.html

Mixed-use project billed as 'economic driver' for Avondale

 

 

Uptown Consortium has signed a preferred developer agreement with Steiner + Associates for more than 5 acres of property along Burnet Avenue between Forest and North avenues.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/18/mixed-use-project-billed-as-economic-driver-for.html

To be able to finance a $650 million project without taking on any debt is truly stunning.

 

How in the hell does a hospital have that much cash on hand?  I drove by this past weekend and the old arab-run gas station on Burnett that was once a beehive of drug dealing is fenced off.  Looks like they'll be clearing the site for this expansion very soon. 

 

In other news, the new apartments on Northern are done or are almost done.  Looks like the land around the Cincinnati Herald + parking garage is being held for a Banks or U Square-type housing development, but the area in between Harvey and Reading is still in ruinous condition.  You have to wonder if they're purposefully running it down so as to make it cheaper to buy, if they don't own it already. 

 

 

 

 

Look at your medical bill :/

It is 100% a racket.

Children’s Hospital expansion heads for a final vote, but Simpson, Young seek boost for Avondale

 

A vote on a potential $500 million expansion of Cincinnati Children’s Hospital in Avondale is headed for a final City Council vote Wednesday, but two council members proposed a new set of concessions for the hospital on Monday, leaving its senior leaders surprised.

 

Cincinnati City Council’s Neighborhoods Committee initially deadlocked on the measures needed for the projects to go forward, with council members Yvette Simpson and Wendell Young voting “no” and Vice Mayor David Mann and Councilman Kevin Flynn voting “yes.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/07/children-s-hospital-expansion-heads-for-a-final.html

Why do I suspect Simpson's stance on this will only serve to help Cranley's re-election effort?  That she and Young want Children's Hospital to pay $14 million more, in addition to the $11 million already offered, for a grand total of $25 million, sounds like a form of extortion to me. 

Yeah, I don't know, it's not like Children's is looking for a TIF or anything?  That said, the city should say "OK, a portion of the sales tax generated by the 600 new permanent jobs can go straight back to Avondale", but that just seems like a super dangerous precedent.

 

Asking the hospital to cough up more and say things like "Improve health by 10%", that is just ridiculous IMO.

She has lost my support with this shakedown.  What a joke.

 

Children's just needs to take a rendering of that tower and photoshop it onto their Liberty Township building.  That will shut them up :-)

When obnoxious politicians hold up progress of a world class job creator for the area, you question their competency.

Cranley started a whisper campaign in Avondale several years ago that accused Simpson of wanting to sell out Avondale to white yuppies. So he basically cornered Simpson with this issue -- if she did nothing, it would prove his baseless accusation.  If she does something, then Cranley orders hit pieces by The Enquirer and 700WLW illustrating her "incompetence". 

Asking the hospital to cough up more and say things like "Improve health by 10%", that is just ridiculous IMO.

 

Where did you get that quote?  It's not in the article. 

 

Yes, it is a problem that this is being brought up at the last minute.  However, it looks like the criticisms of the project are that Children's basically came up with their plan, and the public engagement process (required for zoning changes, abandonment of public rights-of-way, and PUD revisions) was little more than a feel-good play with no actual intention of listening to any public input.  This is a criticism of many Department of Transportation projects too, and it looks like they want to prevent Children's from flattening the entire neighborhood in the way Christ Hospital is doing, or by building a fortress completely disconnected from the neighborhood similar to the Cleveland Clinic, which was cited in the article.

 

"Children’s needs council approval of zoning changes, modification of the hospital’s development plan and the sale of city property. The Avondale Community Council stridently has opposed the expansion, particularly its scale and how it was planned. Community members say it was clear Children’s had settled on its plan and that its talks with them were for show."

 

Is it a bad political move?  Maybe, because "hurr durr bizness friendly" but I do see where their objections are coming from.  It sure sounds to me like they're trying to prevent Children's from doing many of the things were here at UO routinely criticize big institutions for doing.  So I'm a bit surprised at all the knee-jerk rants. 

^ while there is merit to your argument, the thing is that Childrens has the ability to make the rules more than most people and businesses. They earned that credibility through becoming a world class institution that makes the overall area more livable. WHile it may not help Avondale directly, the benefits to the rest of the region far outweigh Avondale's loss

I saw the 10% improvement quote as well, can't find or recall where as there has been a lot written lately.  All in all the community redevelopment corp, which is run by the same people as the community council is basically using this as a cash grab, calling this new building genocide, etc etc.

And they have $650 million in cash.

I saw the 10% improvement quote as well, can't find or recall where as there has been a lot written lately.  All in all the community redevelopment corp, which is run by the same people as the community council is basically using this as a cash grab, calling this new building genocide, etc etc.

 

It's in the motion:http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/council/public/child/Blob/48490.pdf?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%27201701200%27

Luckily with such broad parameters that 10% can likely be achieved with creative number crunching.

I'm not sure how I feel about Yvette pushing back at this specific proposal, but I'm glad to see her pushing back on the continual outward expansion of the Uptown institutions and decimation of the surrounding neighborhoods. If the hospitals, UC, the Zoo, Uptown Properties, and Uptown Consortium had their way, they'd just demolish the remaining historic sections of Corryville and Avondale and turn it into new "campuses" and VP5 thru VP100. Wendell Young had a great quote the other day, where he said something like, "they need to stop viewing uptown neighborhoods as 'developable land'". That sums it up pretty succinctly.

Honestly, I am torn about this development. It decimates the street grid by relocating Erkenbrecher Ave with no connection to the rest of the existing grid. The zoning change seemed to sail through all the departments and the City Planning Commission despite the opposition of the Community Council. There are some real challenges in Avondale and on one hand it's not fair to expect Children's to solve that but on the other hand, the city has handed away entitlement obligations with lip service being paid to diversity and inclusion. The Planning Departments findings supporting the zone change were very general and sparse at best.

 

This project is so huge, it's hard to see that with all this money being spent they couldn't have at least thrown a bone or two to the neighborhood at the onset. What Young and Simpson seem to be doing is requiring the elements of a Community Benefits Agreement seemingly at the 11th hour. It is the 11th hour and I am not a fan of the goal post moving but I am also not a fan of completely ignoring the community in which this is being built. This seems to be another example of how cities like Cincinnati tend to differ carte blanche to institutions and other major players.

 

I guess at the end of the day we have an administration who is led by someone with the development philosophy of "beggars can't be choosers." This city, its staff, appointed and elected officials, and ultimately the voters have to decide if that type of attitude is still relevant and necessary.

And if this were going in at Liberty people would complain as well so it as a lose-lose situation.  If someone can argue for an equitable alternative I would be all ears but I've yet to hear anything.

^When would be the appropriate time to push for this? IMO, the committee meetings are that time. These shouldn't be rubber stamp approvals once they reach committee. That's where the city should officially express its opinions and possible changes.

This project is so huge, it's hard to see that with all this money being spent they couldn't have at least thrown a bone or two to the neighborhood at the onset. What Young and Simpson seem to be doing is requiring the elements of a Community Benefits Agreement seemingly at the 11th hour. It is the 11th hour and I am not a fan of the goal post moving but I am also not a fan of completely ignoring the community in which this is being built. This seems to be another example of how cities like Cincinnati tend to differ carte blanche to institutions and other major players.

 

They are currently offering roughly 10 mil and not to the ACDC but to other groups who work in the neighborhood.  I'm guessing if it were going to ACDC we wouldn't be hearing a thing.  Can't find the source but I feel like an initial demand was for close to 100 mil in direct and indirect aid.

My first reaction to this news was disgust that two council members are trying to shake down an entity that has been the single largest contributor to the Uptown area's economy and real estate market. I still don't think Young and Simpson's approach is appropriate, and putting a request for an additional $14 million at the last minute definitely feels like a shakedown. It also appears to be a purely political move, as Yvette is trying to score some support with the black community. It undermines my faith in her abilities to be a strong and competent  leader, which is unfortunate.

 

However, after reading the article, I don't think it's as absurd a proposition as I initially thought. Young's quote about Avondale not being a site that can just be plowed down for development resonated with me. If Children's wants to demolish a bunch of homes and further expand into the neighborhood, they should have to pay an "impact fee" of sorts. I'm not crazy about money going to some city managed slush fund for the neighborhood; I'd rather see a more targeted use of the funds, but in concept, I agree with paying to mitigate the impact on the neighborhood, and I support initiatives to promote local hiring.

 

Cincinnati has to get over this attitude like we should be so grateful to anyone who wants to invest in the city. The argument that we need to bow down to Children's or else they can leave and go to West Chester really reveals the low self esteem of the city. Children's benefits immensely from its location. The proximity to the university and other hospitals, new freeway interchange, access to a young and educated workforce and proximity to downtown and OTR (and even Hyde Park, Oakley etc) are all benefits that Children's gets from being where they are. Not to mention the sunk costs Children's has in the area with all the real estate they own. Cincy needs to stand up for itself and realize that it has some leverage in these deals.

I agree that the city has leverage and this is not a project that would have ever really been considered for another site.  My issue is individuals wanting the money for the community council and there development arm.  If this was something the city oversaw or was affiliated with a consortium of non-profits I'd not an issue, but I don't feel like the avondale community development corp should be getting the $500,000.

^ The problem is that Uptown Consortium is the consortium of non-profits for that area. And they do not give a crap about the surrounding neighborhood. They pushed for the new MLK interchange which made the street even more pedestrian-hostile, while saying absolutely nothing about expanding/improving transit access to Uptown. The problem is that they only speak for the non-profits, not the residents of those neighborhoods. They are no friend of historic preservation, transit, walkability, and many of the other things that people on this forum care about.

What I don't understand is why, after having secured tons of land directly across Burnett Ave., which is currently laying fallow, they decided to expand north around the Ronal McDonald House.  It seems like whatever the long-term plan was in the 1990s, when Children's experienced its last major construction project (the A hospital section, not the S or T research towers), was that a future hospital expansion would jump across Burnett Ave.  That's why the new Ronald McDonald House was permitted to be constructed at the high profile corner where it now sits. 

 

For whatever reason, the decision was made to expand the hospital north towards Herne.  The real question is why the apparent long-term plan to jump across Burnett to the cleared block between Catherine and Erkenbrecker was abandoned in favor of tearing down even more homes. 

 

Also, if having a contiguous hospital structure is imperative, the sites where the research towers S and T now stand should have become the hospital.  The research towers could have instead been built east of Burnett in and around the Cincinnati Herald building. 

 

I'm talking more about the non-profits working in avondale getting funding through the united way vs the non-profit institutions ala UC/CCHMC/Zoo.  I don't have an issue with the demands, more about where the demands are coming from.

What I don't understand is why, after having secured tons of land directly across Burnett Ave., which is currently laying fallow, they decided to expand north around the Ronal McDonald House.  It seems like whatever the long-term plan was in the 1990s, when Children's experienced its last major construction project (the A hospital section, not the S or T research towers), was that a future hospital expansion would jump across Burnett Ave.  That's why the new Ronald McDonald House was permitted to be constructed at the high profile corner where it now sits. 

 

For whatever reason, the decision was made to expand the hospital north towards Herne.  The real question is why the apparent long-term plan to jump across Burnett to the cleared block between Catherine and Erkenbrecker was abandoned in favor of tearing down even more homes. 

 

Also, if having a contiguous hospital structure is imperative, the sites where the research towers S and T now stand should have become the hospital.  The research towers could have instead been built east of Burnett in and around the Cincinnati Herald building. 

 

 

It doesn't matter to people because jobs. Hospitals are the new factory work so they're able to get away with whatever just like factories used to.

What I don't understand is why, after having secured tons of land directly across Burnett Ave., which is currently laying fallow, they decided to expand north around the Ronal McDonald House.  It seems like whatever the long-term plan was in the 1990s, when Children's experienced its last major construction project (the A hospital section, not the S or T research towers), was that a future hospital expansion would jump across Burnett Ave.  That's why the new Ronald McDonald House was permitted to be constructed at the high profile corner where it now sits. 

 

For whatever reason, the decision was made to expand the hospital north towards Herne.  The real question is why the apparent long-term plan to jump across Burnett to the cleared block between Catherine and Erkenbrecker was abandoned in favor of tearing down even more homes. 

 

Also, if having a contiguous hospital structure is imperative, the sites where the research towers S and T now stand should have become the hospital.  The research towers could have instead been built east of Burnett in and around the Cincinnati Herald building. 

 

 

Which parcels across Burnet are you referring to?

 

 

Which parcels across Burnet are you referring to?

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1419465,-84.5002405,3a,75y,151.55h,99.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTBWiSWEN_V212XMZnW92iw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

The homes on the block of Erkenbrecker toward Harvey were oriented on an unusual turnaround loop.  They were all torn down except for the one still standing around 2002.

 

 

Gotcha, I certainly have no idea what there intentions are/were but I'm sure it will have something built upon at some point.  I do know before construction on T was completed the space was fully accounted for and they had initially planned on taking a few years to fill it up.

Meanwhile, the zoo and/or hospitals continue their attack on the homes along Shields, Louis, and the south side of Erkenbrecker between Vine and Children's.  A couple of those buildings closest to Children's are owned by Gaslight, Uptown, or one of the other big dogs so no doubt they're playing the holdout game. 

When you look at it the zoo and childrens are about to merge physically.  Should be interesting how it all looks in 30 years.

What I don't understand is why, after having secured tons of land directly across Burnett Ave., which is currently laying fallow, they decided to expand north around the Ronal McDonald House.  It seems like whatever the long-term plan was in the 1990s, when Children's experienced its last major construction project (the A hospital section, not the S or T research towers), was that a future hospital expansion would jump across Burnett Ave.  That's why the new Ronald McDonald House was permitted to be constructed at the high profile corner where it now sits. 

 

For whatever reason, the decision was made to expand the hospital north towards Herne.  The real question is why the apparent long-term plan to jump across Burnett to the cleared block between Catherine and Erkenbrecker was abandoned in favor of tearing down even more homes. 

 

Also, if having a contiguous hospital structure is imperative, the sites where the research towers S and T now stand should have become the hospital.  The research towers could have instead been built east of Burnett in and around the Cincinnati Herald building. 

 

 

It doesn't matter to people because jobs. Hospitals are the new factory work so they're able to get away with whatever just like factories used to.

 

Of course that should be the key factor here. If you have something that will create a billion dollar impact on the entire region and allow for the city to create the type of development and reinvigorate urban areas, sometimes you need to break a few eggs.  On top of this, you save children's lives Everyone should be for this.

I think the longtime residents of Avondale have every right to believe that the place is going to be gentrified, but it's not going to happen because of the physical demolition of a few dozen homes.  It's going to happen because eventually the hospital staff is going to start living in Avondale proper and not just in Clifton and North Avondale (and of course most hospital employees seem to commute from absolutely ridiculous distances). 

 

The I-71 MLK interchange is a big deal and is going to cause the road east and west of the interstate to explode with the sort of thing that line the expressway in Norwood and Kenwood.  It's only going to take 100-200 professionals to start buying and renovating homes in Avondale to motivate a developer feeding frenzy.  That it hasn't happened up until now illustrates just how bad Avondale has been for the past 50 years.