From the 8/17/06 DDN:

 

 

Businesses' flight from downtown Dayton causes concern

The possibility of an empty MeadWestvaco tower, the city's second largest, looms.

By Lisa A. Bernard

Staff Writer

 

DAYTON — Some small-business owners around Courthouse Square say concern is growing with the continued upheaval of downtown jobs.

 

On Tuesday,, NewPage Corp. announced plans to move its 250 employees out of the MeadWestvaco Tower and into a headquarters in Miami Twp.

 

At 27 stories, the MeadWestvaco Tower is Dayton's second-largest building.

 

Read More...

 

From the 8/18/06 Dayton Business Journal:

 

 

NewPage move to put pressure on lease rates

Dayton Business Journal - August 18, 2006

by Yvonne Teems and Tim Tresslar

DBJ Staff Reporters

 

Depending on whom you ask, NewPage Corp.'s decision to leave its Dayton digs for new offices in Miami Township could create ripples downtown.

 

The paper company announced Aug. 15 it has signed a letter of intent with Lebanon-based Bunnell Hill Development and Construction Co. to build a 60,000-square-foot headquarters at the Newmark Center area, just east of state Route 741 in Miami Township.

 

NewPage expects to vacate the MeadWestvaco Building on Second Street and occupy the new headquarters during the second quarter of next year.

 

Read More...

 

One possible outcome of an influx of vacant class A office space into the market would be that landlords would lower rents and offer more amenities to keep the offices filled. And, if the departures do lower leasing rates, it also could help tenants of class B/C offices to move into higher quality space.

 

"Whether it's going to create a mass exodus out of downtown, I'd be surprised if that would occur," Dickerson said.

 

What could happen is sort of a domino effect, where B/C becomes vacant or need to reduce rents to the point of the buildings hitting break-even or below that.  End result could be vacant or empty Class B/C space.

 

About 80 percent of the leads he receives come from entities already located in the central business district.

 

Which means that the market for downtown space is downtown buisenesses.  Only 20% come from outside of downtown.  Isn't that a bit of a concern?

 

 

 

I like Dayton...I really hope things turn around for downtown!

Project spurs coffee shop closure

Port Authority to buy Seattle East building

Dayton Business Journal

Tim Tresslar Senior Reporter

August 25, 2006

 

DAYTON - Two downtown Dayton businesses are closing because the building they occupy is about to change hands.

 

Seattle East, a coffee shop and eatery, was expected to serve its last customers Aug. 25. The Upper Kut, a salon that shares the building with Seattle East, will close Sept. 1.

 

Ken Hook, who co-owns Seattle East with Paula Joyce, said they have no immediate plans to re-open somewhere else. If they do resurrect Seattle East, though, they will put it in downtown Dayton and not the suburbs, Hook said.

 

Read More...

Side note....I think Dr. Schuster should run for mayor of Dayton, I think he'd be leaps and bounds better than Mclin

 

 

A Q&A WITH DR. BENJAMIN SCHUSTER

What are downtown Dayton's problems? Who will step up to solve them?

By Jeff Bruce

Dayton Daily News Editor

Sunday, September 10, 2006

 

DAYTON — The future of downtown Dayton is a popular topic of conversation.

 

But when it comes to putting his money where his mouth is, few have done more than Dr. Benjamin Schuster, who, with his wife Marian, spearheaded the fundraising for the performing arts center that bears their name, then followed that by relocating their home there.

 

From his perch atop Performance Place, Dr. Schuster not only has a bird's-eye view of the city, his three years living downtown have given him a unique perspective on the challenges the central city faces.

 

Read More...

 

Dr. Schuster makes some interesting points, but I didn't find anything really profound here....

 

I realize that I am obviously not in the majority on this issue, but I really fail to see any parking problem in downtown Dayton.  Anytime I am downtown I never have a problem finding a parking spot either on the street, a surface lot, or parking garage.  I think as has been said before, it is more of a walking problem than a parking problem.  And along with that, I think people have the perception that downtown is unsafe (unfounded IMHO) and therefore don't feel save walking from parking to their final destination.  I think much of downtown's "parking problem" could be fixed by continued police presence and their crackdown on crime downtown. 

 

Of course regionalism came up.  Something that everyone always brings up, but no one wants to take the lead on.  If people are really serious about this, then let's really start having serious discussions about this--including our elected officials, who are usually pretty quiet on the issue but necessary to get the process going.

 

I agree with Dr. Schuster on the issue of a stronger Downtown Dayton Partnership and Dayton Chamber of Commerce.  With Maureen Pero stepping down, this is a perfect opportunity to reassess the DDP and its direction.  It will be really interesting, though, to see who they hire to replace Pero.  It was also interesting to see Dr. Schuster mention the Chamber of Commerce.  It doesn't seem like the chamber has been active or vocal on any of the downtown issues.

 

Is the problem really needing to tear down older building to be replaced by new ones?  I'm sure there are some that this is obviously true for, but doesn't it really come down to an issue of being located downtown.  For whatever reasons, some business leaders are unhappy with the downtown environment and want to move to the suburbs.  If the problem were as simple as tearing down and building new, I think that would be easy to take care of.  I think the problem is much deeper than that.  For example, didn't they try to get Woolpert to locate to new building in Tech Town, yet they still chose the suburbs.

 

Let's hide the homeless better?  I understand his point in regard to perception and I also realize that it is unrealistic to think that we will be able to eliminate homelessness, but I think we have to do better than just hiding them.  I guess out of sight, out of mind...but really, is that any sort of solution?  Umm no.  It blows me away that someone with his education and medical credentials would suggest hiding the homeless as a solution. 

 

David Esrati has been pushing for a broader definition of downtown for awhile on his blog (and I assume even before that).  In regard specifically to the Downtown Dayton Partnership, how are they supposed to do that?  When the property owners in the central business district voted a special tax on themselves to pay for the DDP, is it fair for the DDP to go spend that money on other areas such as Webster Station, the Oregon District, and the UD/MVH area?  If I were paying the tax downtown, that would upset me.  Especially when the Oregon District businesses voted not to join the DDP.  Maybe with new leadership taking over at the Downtown Dayton Parternship, we can get a stronger leader who will be able to convince there other area businesses to join, but until then, I'm not sure how much the DDP can do.  In regard to the city or whoever else, I don't see what the big deal is in what they consider downtown.  The city has to provide services to the entire city, not just downtown.  So really, what is the big deal if the city considers UD a part of "downtown" or not?

 

I respect Dr. Schuster and the committments he has made to downtown, but I really dont find he added much to the discussion.

yet he's still doing more than Rhine Mclin.....

How so?  He donated lots of money to the performing arts center that bears his name and he chose to live downtown--both of which I admire, but not something that most people are in a financial position to do.  What else has he done?

What has rhine mclin done??? I sure as hell don't see her donating money or trying to improve the city she runs? Shouldn't the above be enough? At least he's vocal and an advocate of the city and the downtown area...

 

I sure hope you don't think she is taking the city and downtown area in a positive direction!!??!

While I'm not saying that Mayor McLin is taking the city and downtown in a positive direction, I truly question whether anyone would be much more successful.  If we want to attract better leaders to the mayor's job, we really need to look at the structure of the position itself.  With a city manager form of government, the city manager is the one with all the power.  The mayor is just a first among equals on the city commission and really nothing more than a figurehead.  Granted, the city commission hires and fires the city manager, but the city manager is ultimately the one running the city. 

 

Rhine McLin means well, but IMHO is severely limited by her poor communication skills.  Whenever I've talked with her when I've seen her around town, she has been much more articulate and seemed to have the right idea.  She truly seems to love Dayton and have its best interest at heart.  However, that does no good if it is not portrayed on a daily basis, especially in the media.  As long as she fails to effectively communicate, she will fail to be an effective leader.

 

I certainly find Dr. Schuster's contributions to downtown highly commendable, but I don't think that automatically makes him a vocal advocate of downtown.  In fact, when is the last time time we have heard from Dr. Schuster other than when he donated his money?  If he were such an advocate for downtown, wouldn't we have heard from him before now?  Donating money is fantastic, but being an effective agent for change requires doing more than that. 

 

I don't think Dayton's answer is Rhine McLin.  Nor do I think it is Dr. Schuster.

Side note....I think Dr. Schuster should run for mayor of Dayton, I think he'd be leaps and bounds better than Mclin

 

Umm...Doctor Quinn, Medicine Woman would be better than McLin.

 

Rhine McLin means well, but IMHO is severely limited by her poor communication skills.  Whenever I've talked with her when I've seen her around town, she has been much more articulate and seemed to have the right idea.  She truly seems to love Dayton and have its best interest at heart.  However, that does no good if it is not portrayed on a daily basis, especially in the media.  As long as she fails to effectively communicate, she will fail to be an effective leader.

 

You haven't told a lie yet!

Commication problems aside, I think McLin is a scapegoat for some deeper problems here. 

 

Schusters' comments where a hoot:

 

"....We have so many empty buildings that really need to be torn down....We could devastate four blocks of buildings and give them adequate parking.....

 

Shall I repost my modest proposal for the Arcade and DDN blocks?

 

 

Seriously, the whole parking thing is that parking isn't free downtown, so suburbia will always be more appealing to auto-dependent suburbanites, where one can park for free, pretty close to ones destination. 

 

Anyway, it is sort of neat that Shuster moved downtown as well as having given the money to build the performing arts center and that condo tower. If it wasn't for him there still would be a big vacant department store at 2nd and Main.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just HAVE to share this story with you. Back when Rhine was running for mayor the first time, I was working at Mead. Then CEO Jerry Tatar asked some of us to meet with Rhine to discuss what her plan was for Dayton etc. (also I worked with a women who was running for a spot on the dayton school board) A call was placed to Rhine Mclin to set up a time and place to meet, in which she was told, that we could book a conference room in the Mead tower to have our meeting. Her response (are you ready for this???) "Where's the Mead tower?"

 

No, I'm not kidding, though I wish I was

 

^

ooooh....not good.

^Actually, quite good!

I was thinking about Shusters remarks about regionalism and Louisville.

 

What happened with Louisville is that some of the foundations of regionalism where laid early-on..in the 1940s and early 1950s, with the establishment of a city-county planning commission, and city-county parks dept., as well as countywide water and sewer systems (Louisville Water Company and MSD).  And, the public library was also countywide.

 

I think for Dayton and Montgomery County, a lot of this would never happen due to the suburban jurisdictions gaurding their turf and wanting to have local control

 

I do think some baby steps to regionalism would be to have a countywide water and sewer district, seperate from local governments, as a countywide authority like RTA, perhaps. 

 

This is a mundane concept, but try to imagine Daytonians (and their suburban counterparts) getting their heads around the idea of "no more water department".....which goes to show how far away this community is from any real regional thinking.

 

 

I think for Dayton and Montgomery County, a lot of this would never happen due to the suburban jurisdictions gaurding their turf and wanting to have local control

 

So true.

 

There is a bit of governmental cooperation going on, but not enough to make a real impact in the way you are referring to, Jeff...

http://www.mvrpc.org/rc/multiAgency.php

From the 9/16/06 DDN:

 

 

FBI relocating downtown Dayton office to Centerville

By Kelli Wynn

Staff Writer

Saturday, September 16, 2006

 

DAYTON — Growth and lack of space has the Federal Bureau of Investigation moving its Dayton operation from the federal building downtown to Clyo Road in Centerville.

 

"We need a larger office," Michael Brooks, supervisory special agent and chief division counsel for the FBI's Cincinnati division, said of Dayton's office, which is a satellite office of the Cincinnati division.

 

FBI facilities across the country are moving out of federal buildings because of a lack of space and the growth of the organization, Brooks said.

 

Read More...

 

From the 11/2/06 DDN:

 

 

City hires consultant to fix parking problems

Cleveland company to develop downtown plan to build two parking garages and expand a third.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Thursday, November 02, 2006

 

DAYTON — — The city plans to tackle parking, a problem businesses say retards development downtown.

 

On Wednesday, the Dayton City Commission hired Cleveland-based Desman Associates to develop a downtown parking plan that could include construction of two parking garages and expansion of a third.

 

Shelley Dickstein, a senior planning specialist coordinating downtown development for the city manager's office, said she would like to have a parking garage under construction by spring.

 

Read More...

 

The city is also looking at whether a shuttle operating downtown would be needed to transport employees from work to the garages.

 

..a shuttle?  why not sedan chairs?

 

 

From the 11/19/06 DDN. Check out the graphic.

 

 

GRAPHIC: Things are looking up for downtown Dayton

 

Downtown evolving, officials say

The core city is turning into an entertainment and residential district. What's missing? A new role for the Arcade.

By Joanne Huist Smith

Staff Writer

Sunday, November 19, 2006

 

DAYTON — It's been a sobering year for downtown Dayton with word of jobs moving out of the center city. While Dayton officials worked in vain with some companies to keep jobs downtown, they were connecting with others interested in investing in the city's core.

 

"We are changing from what we were to something else," said Stanley Earley, Dayton assistant city manager.

 

Sandy Gudorf, interim president of the Downtown Dayton Partnership, said downtown is evolving from the retail destination it once was toward entertainment and a housing with lofts, apartments and condominiums.

 

Read More...

 

Just posting the graphic linked.

 

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/05/48/09/image_4909485.png

^ Yay!!!

Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the sq miles of downtown Dayton and what is the population?

Sq mileage of the actual CBD is like 1 sq mi or something?  I'm not counting the Oregon District, Webster Station, etc.  Strictly downtown CBD (Patterson to Monument/River to I-75 to the railroad tracks).  Does that sound about right?

 

The population of downtown [not Oregon, Webster Station] was, last time I checked, 2,600? (which was from an article posted here a while ago from the DDN)

^ That is one of the biggest problems with Downtown Dayton - that the CBD is so small and does not include the more successful neighborhoods and venues in the city - including (as ColDayMan mentioned) Oregon District, Dayton Art Institute, Fifth Third Field, etc.  This is especially challenging when considering the Downtown Dayton Partnership, whose purpose is to market the downtown but cannot include these other areas simply because of S.I.D. boundaries.  Many of us urban dwellers consider Oregon District, Webster Station and even Grafton Hill and McPherson Town as "Downtown Dayton".   

 

Just as regionalism makes more sense than having 100 different local municipalities each competing with each other, Dayton would be better served if there was a more inclusive marketing effort that encompassed a much larger area than the square mile that is the CBD.  We're attempting that with Dayton.MostMetro.com.

 

 

.....and you are doing a good job!

I may not know what SID is. But I consider the Oregon, Webster Station, Mcphersontown, DAI  and a few other areas all part of downtown. they may not be part of the official boundaires, but really those areas are part of downtown dayton....at least to me they are.

 

I would also presume that almost everyone else would agree??

 

Why can't the DDP market these areas? What are the SID rules?

I don't count McPhersontown but I DO count Webster Station and the Oregon as "Greater Downtown."  I think anywhere north of the river has its own identity, though I suppose it's still in "greater downtown."

Why can't the DDP market these areas? What are the SID rules?

 

The S.I.D. stands for Special Improvement District and it means that all property owners (besides a few exempt) within the SID boundaries (also considered the Central Business District, or CBD) must pay an additional property tax based on square frontage to help fund the Downtown Dayton Partnership (DDP) - a downtown marketing group that receives the rest of its money from the city.  Columbus has a similar org called Downtown Development Corporation - I imagine Cleveland, Cinci and others have similar orgs as well.

 

The problem with the SID is that places like DAI, Oregon District and even Fifth Third Field lie outside of the SID boundaries (ColDayMan had them correct above).  So the DDP cannot include these venues in its marketing of downtown unless those venues agree to voluntarily pay the SID tax, and few do.  This puts the DDP in a bad position because  a significant amount of new development is happening outside of the SID (Ballpark Village and Tech Town included, which are in Webster Station).  Many believe that Webster Station is going to be the new hub of activity in the next decade, so where does that leave the CBD and the DDP?

 

The DDP has gone through big changes over the past few years: the president resigned in August 2006 under enormous pressure from critics who questioned the DDP's effectiveness, especially since many of downtown's large corporations have left for other regions (MeadWestvaco) and even just a few miles away into the suburbs (NewPage) while downtown continues to struggle to attract people and businesses.  To this day they have yet to find somebody to permanently fill the president position.

 

There are many that believe that instead of an org that helps small independent businesses (the backbone to any downtown and especially Dayton), the DDP has become a group that focuses on three annual downtown events - Urban Nights twice a year and the annual Holiday Festival, pays money to a private company based in Louisville that handles the "ambassador program" (Columbus uses the same company), and spends the rest of its time handling poor PR everytime a different company announces that it is moving out of downtown.  It doesn't help that the people that run the DDP are not really accountable to anybody.  There is a vote every five years to determine if the DDP should continue, and though I imagine many property owners are not satisfied with the job that the DDP is doing, the feeling is that it is better than having nothing.

 

I have met with the DDP in the past and I think they are all very nice people who sincerely care about downtown.  But I believe that as an organization they are too small, have too little power and have too little resources to do the big things that are necessary to turn downtown around.  Ironically, the City of Dayton created a new position directly under the city manager in 2006 that will oversee downtown development.  Perhaps the city is not satisfied with the DDP, but I do not know for sure. 

 

Hmm, perhaps I should begin a new topic.....

Who decided the boundaries for the DDP? Can't they be expanded?

I'm pretty sure the Oregon District voted not to be included.

Preservation expert buys third downtown building

 

By Lisa Bernard

Staff Writer

Friday, March 02, 2007

 

DAYTON — The downtown property owner, preservationist and Oakwood businessman who breathed new life into the Fourth Street Kuhns Building has purchased the Schwind Building on Ludlow, according documents from the Montgomery County Court of Common Pleas.

 

The 25-27 Ludlow street building was placed on the auction block on Feb. 9, with Robert Shiffler coming in as the highest bidder at $230,000, according to court documents.

 

In 2006 Shiffler and his wife Nancy were recognized by Preservation Dayton for their renovation of the Kuhns/Chemineer Building. The couple is now amid restoring the McCrory's Building on Main Street, which is expected to be complete at the end of the year. The couple has said the total cost of acquisition and restoration for McCrory's will be about $1.5 million.

 

Read More...

 

This is great news, because the Shifflers are very dedicated to rehabbing these old buildings not just back to useful status, but back to their original glory.  The <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/davidebowman/HAFENBRACK/photo#s5008084453951916674">Kuhns building</a> is a stunning example of what can be done when property investors have both the resources and the will to bring life back into a building.

 

This is yet another example that people with real money believe in Downtown Dayton and are not afraid to invest in it.  If only we had more people like Bob and Nancy in Dayton!

Wow!  That's the first that I've seen interior shots from the Kuhns Building.  I had heard it was pretty cool inside, but wow!  I love it.  Now I can't wait to see what they do to the Schwind Building.

This guy has a nice little block of property on Main now, with McCrorys and Kuhns. 

 

Is he going to develope the Schwind as residential, the way the original plan had it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Public Participation Meeting scheduled

regarding the Downtown Dayton

Two-Way Street Grid Study

 

Dayton, OH – The Miami Valley Regional Planning Commission (MVRPC) will host a Public Participation Meeting to present for comment the preferred alternative to change selected routes in Downtown Dayton from one-way travel to two-way travel.

 

When: Thursday, April 5, 2007

 

Where: Greater Dayton Regional Transit Authority’s (GDRTA’s) Main Office

4 South Main Street

Wright Stop Plaza

Second Floor Meeting Room – Cooper Building

Dayton, OH 45402

 

Time: 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. 4:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.

 

As part of this study, MVRPC has examined the impacts that a two-way traffic flow would have on 18 blocks in Downtown Dayton. During this meeting, the preferred alternative of changing the traffic flow from one-way travel to two-way travel, including Second Street from I-75 to Patterson, will be presented for public comment. In addition, the public will have an opportunity to comment on the preferred alternative which will be available for review on the MVRPC web site (www.mvrpc.org) by 10:00 a.m. on Thursday, April 5, 2007.

 

The meeting will be held in an open house format with displays of the preferred alternative. Additionally, at 11:30 a.m. and 5:30 p.m., short presentations explaining the preferred alternative will be made.

 

Written comments will be accepted until Thursday, April 19th, 2007 at [email protected] or at:

 

Tetra Tech

Downtown Dayton Two-Way Street Grid Study

1328 Dublin Rd., Suite 201A

Columbus, OH 43215

 

At all MVRPC public participation meetings, interpreters for hearing impaired or bi-lingual individuals are made available upon request. Requests should be made at least one week prior to the meeting date. Contact MVRPC at (937) 223-6323 or 1-800-750-0750 TTY/TDD to request an interpreter.

 

For additional information, contact Matt Selhorst, Tetra Tech Project Manager, at (614) 827-7437 or Paul Arnold, MVRPC Regional Planner, at (937) 223-6323.

Downtown firm inks deal at The Greene

Greystone to leave Kettering Tower

 

Dayton Business Journal - March 30, 2007

by Yvonne Teems

DBJ Staff Reporter

 

A fast-growing company plans to leave downtown Dayton for new office space in The Greene.

 

Greystone InAdvance Inc., formerly Descomm LLC, will leave the Kettering Tower in August or September for its new digs in Beavercreek's $186 million retail, office, residential and entertainment complex that opened last August, said Don Saunders Jr., chief executive officer.

 

While Greystone was in talks with the city of Dayton, its landlord and the Downtown Dayton Partnership, the groups weren't able to entice the credit card processing company to stay. Saunders said he chose to leave because it's less expensive to locate at The Greene and the center provides the atmosphere he wants for his employees: restaurants, retail, free parking and the perception of safety.

 

Read More...

"as downtown Dayton's ears ring with recent announcements of departures, including those of MeadWestvaco Corp., The Dayton Daily News and NewPage Corp"

 

I don't know that I'd call those recent... but I guess recalling anything bad that's happened downtown makes for a more dramatic story.

Recent would be mean the last year or two.  But downtown is also gaining Caresource.

 

I guess the DDN departure rankles the most as one expects the newsroom to be downtown, but there you go.

 

Saunders said he chose to leave because it's less expensive to locate at The Greene and the center provides the atmosphere he wants for his employees: restaurants, retail, free parking and the perception of safety.

 

I am glad he said perception of safety, as this does underline that this is an image problem rather than a reality.

 

But free parking and lower cost are very much true.  It is cheaper to work in Beavercreek as one doesn't have to pay a city income tax. And of course the parking.

 

Lack of free parking will always put downtown Dayton at a disadvantage.

 

 

As tired and archaic businesses such as MeadWestvaco and even DDN leave downtown, creative and progressive businesses such as Hafenbrack Marketing and BGH Studios continue to move into downtown.  And let's face it - we'd rather have businesses that value the downtown urban environment, believe in downtown's future and actually want to be here than businesses and their employees who do nothing but complain about being downtown.

 

As for parking, the city has immediate plans to build a new parking garage for CareSource and hopes to build two more garages.  There are several parking garages downtown, though some are either not marketed correctly or need some serious updating.  Ironically since I live downtown I actually have no idea how good or bad the parking really is. 

 

Keep your eye on Bob & Nancy Schifler - they are buying up these historic downtown buildings one by one and turning them into masterpieces (see Kuhns Building earlier in this thread).  I would not be surprised if they eventually acquire the Arcade.  It is folks like them that believe in downtown and are betting some serious money on it.

As tired and archaic businesses such as MeadWestvaco and even DDN leave downtown....

 

Meadwestvaco and DDN are corporations controlled from out-of-town, thus with lack of comittment to the city that a locally controlled firm might have.  The assumption here is that executives of locally controlled firms would have more of a committment to the community on top of profitability, thus decisions might not be strictly bottom-line.

 

The company relocating to the Greene was a credit card processing firm, which is more of a back-office type of operation. From what I've read these usually are in suburban locations to begin with, so having one of these in the heart of a downtown was an anomaly.  I'm not too suprised by this move, really.

 

The relocations to be concerned about are firms like Reynolds+Reynolds and Woolpert...one is a software firm, and the other is an architectural/engineering/planning shop.  I guess software development is sort of suburban buisness use, but one does expect design firms to be downtown.

 

What the Shiflers are doing is very similar to what's happening in downtown Louisville, as there are smaller developers doing individual building renovations.  On this site you hear about that big Museum Plaza project, but that is just part of the story of whats up downtown in Derbytown, and also shows what happens when you have a critical mass of local investors willing to put money into smaller renovations, like the Schiflers.

 

What bugs me is what Michael Redmond said on another post, that investors from Dayton are investing in Cincinnati redevelopments in OTR/Main Street, I think.  I didn't comment but that was really icing on the cake for me...that Dayton money is not investing in Dayton.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't comment but that was really icing on the cake for me...that Dayton money is not investing in Dayton.

 

That's been happening for years...

EXACTLY. Mead is not run from Dayton nor is the DDN. Sometimes a downtown (or any urban neighborhood) is better off with local, independent businesses rather than satellite offices for a media company in Atlanta (DDN) or a 6-billion dollar Fotune 500 baron in Richmond (MeadWestvaco). They chose to give up on Dayton a long time ago...

 

As a newspaper, I've come to respect the journalistic integrity of DDN more than some of the other papers in Ohio, but they clearly don't care about Dayton.

 

This is just sad, and I think Dayton set a horrible precedent here. It's very rare for any newspaper to be operated outside of downtown, and I suspect the quality of news will suffer. Of any business, newspapers are best suited for downtown. They need close proximity to the political and economic happenings of the city. In five years, DDN will probably be a joke.

 

Not quite.  DDN's building is not far from downtown Dayton (hell, it's at UD) and is still within the city (and there is a nice skyline shot from the roof of the building).  So no, the DDN will not be a joke and will still be connected with the city.  Think of it as the Blade moving over to where the Toledo Art Museum is.  Is it downtown?  No.  Is it close?  Sure.  Is it still in the city?  That's all that matters, really.

^

thats a bit of positive spin, but I am still sceptical that it doesn't make a difference not having the newsroom close to places like City Hall.  I might have a nostalgic view of journalism, too, being something where reporters need face to face contacts and such with the various local movers and shakers and sources.  Grady Clay touched on this in his article on "venturi" in his book "Close Up" .

 

It's only a matter of time before there is a big "Dayton Pride" movement. The industrial and/or manufacturing cities have grit and soul that just can't be built anymore. They're also cheap as hell to live in, so people will eventually rediscover them.

 

...yeah, I noticed that big Toledo Pride sign over I-75 when driving through.  There would be derisive laughter if they tried that here, though guys like Billy@Mostmetro here are certainly trying to jumpstart some local civic pride, sure. It is a tough row to hoe.

 

Yeah, Dayton is cheap, but that whole other argument about grit and character...for me this city just tore down too darn much, abanonded even more, and continues to do so, and along the way it lost its character, killed it's genus loci.  This is part of the problem.  Read the book Root Shock...it talks more about urban renewal and the black community, but I think the point the author makes could be applied to the whole city here...

 

...yeah I know this is all pretty subjective, but just my attempt to interpret the Dayton malaise  .

 

thats a bit of positive spin, but I am still sceptical that it doesn't make a difference not having the newsroom close to places like City Hall.  I might have a nostalgic view of journalism, too, being something where reporters need face to face contacts and such with the various local movers and shakers and sources.  Grady Clay touched on this in his article on "venturi" in his book "Close Up" .

 

Oh, I totally agree that it should still be downtown (as you said, near the "movers and shakers") but  I was simply dispelling the notion of leaving downtown will create a downfall of quality by the DDN.

...yeah, I noticed that big Toledo Pride sign over I-75 when driving through.  There would be derisive laughter if they tried that here, though guys like Billy@Mostmetro here are certainly trying to jumpstart some local civic pride, sure. It is a tough row to hoe.

 

Thanks Jeff - just doing what I can do to try to get people to see the city like I do - as a city with an amazing history, amazing architecture, tons of potential, many decent people that are making a difference and an undercurrent of activity that is keeping things moving in a positive direction.  I've been to Toledo and I see the same problem with their downtown - a ton of potential but why isn't the whole region embracing it? 

 

The pride thing is difficult in cities like Dayton and Toledo as they tend to be seen as "second-rate" to their larger neighbords (Cincinatti & Columbus, Detroit).  I just think it is ironic that when you go to those bigger cities, you hear people there complaining about how their city isn't as good as Chicago, San Francisco or New York.  Like ColDayMan said in an earlier post - it's a rust belt thing.

 

One thing about the urban core of Dayton is that there seems to be a growing number of younger people that are really getting involved and doing what they can to make this a place that people want to stay in rather than move away from.  As I've written on DMM, <a href="http://www.generationdayton.org/">Generation Dayton</a> and <a href="http://www.daytoncircus.org/">The Circus</a> are two groups to watch.  And stay tuned, because people that I know  who are involved with investing in and re-developing our urban neighborhoods (including downtown) have some deep pockets, a lot of influence and most importantly - a passion for this city and the amazing architecture it has.  And these same influential people are bringing in groups like Richard Florida's <a href="http://www.creativeclass.org/display.php?page=services">Creativity Group</a> and Carol Coletta's <a href="http://www.ceosforcities.org/home/index.php">CEO's for Cities</a> to assist in building sustainable plans for our city.  Now, those things by themselves do not guarentee success, but it is those things that are happening in the undercurrent that most people are hearing nothing about.  If we had more people believing, it would happen even quicker.

 

And hopefully the notion of "Dayton Pride" will soon no longer be met with "derisive laughter".  And if not, I guess I can always move back to Chicago! :weird:

No, stay in Dayton and keep the movement moving.  Trust me, if Detroit can comeback, anyone can come back.

Well, for me, I am going to be relocating to either Louisville or California in the next few years.

 

As I've written on DMM, Generation Dayton and The Circus are two groups to watch.  And stay tuned, because people that I know  who are involved with investing in and re-developing our urban neighborhoods (including downtown) have some deep pockets, a lot of influence and most importantly - a passion for this city and the amazing architecture it has.

 

Unfortunatley all this historical research that I've done makes me realize how much amazing architecture we don't have.  That was an unexpected pitfall of my interest in local and neighborhood history as I am probably more despairing of Dayton than a younger person or newcomer,  who isn't aware of what was lost. 

 

In that respect it is a good thing people don't know history, as they work with what's given, and not pine away for what was lost, like I do.

 

 

That being said, The Circus is one of the most interesting things to pop up in recent times here.  I like it because its grass roots, its not some  "big project".  I sort of distrust the big project approach and look more for things bubbling up from the community, sort of like the local music scene.  It just seems more organic and rooted somehow, when things develop that way.