Forget American football for a week. Crew and FC Cincy face each other Saturday for the right to go to the MLS championship. An Ohio team will be in the championship. 

I'm bummed with how the season ended. I'm pissed at Miazga for costing us a championship by being an idiot. I'm glad we had a wonderful season over all and I'm blown away by this photo.

https://old.reddit.com/r/cincinnati/comments/18a18cn/i_love_this_city/

1 hour ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I'm bummed with how the season ended. I'm pissed at Miazga for costing us a championship by being an idiot. I'm glad we had a wonderful season over all and I'm blown away by this photo.

https://old.reddit.com/r/cincinnati/comments/18a18cn/i_love_this_city/

A stunning shot that is! Cincy is truly special. Side note MLS selling its media rights to Apple was a terrible mistake. Without ESPN or another giant being involved the league is not getting nearly as much attention anymore. Apple may be a bigger player in the future but it certainly is not right now. Maybe Apple will offer Disney a price it can’t say no to for ESPN.

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by 646empire

5 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Without ESPN or another giant being involved the league is not getting nearly as much attention anymore.

 

ESPN never paid MLS any attention. A couple years ago, they completely disregarded their pregame show for the MLS Cup Final because a women's college basketball game went into overtime. You actually had to flip over the ESPN News to catch the first few minutes of the MLS game until the bball game ended and they finally put the MLS game on ESPN. The only time SportsCenter ever talked about MLS, or soccer in general, was to us it as a punch line to a joke. ESPN was constantly hostile toward MLS and the sport of soccer, so good riddance to them. 

 

1 hour ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

 

Amazing shot! As a longtime Crew fan and fan of MLS in general, I'm so pumped to have another ambitious team just 100 miles away. Crew victory aside, Saturday's game is something I've been waiting for for a long time. These two teams meeting in the highest possible stakes game (they can't ever meet in a MLS or US Open Cup final) was amazing and I hope we se more of it in the coming seasons!

For active fans, it's a better deal than a hodgepodge mix of different rights holders. With the Apple TV deal you can watch every single match (regular season, playoffs, and Leagues Cup tournament). Season ticket holders get free access, too. There are no blackouts for local teams, no regional restrictions (Apple is the global rights holder) and no blackouts if a game is picked up for national TV. There are some issues (no Android app, too many matches air simultaneously so you can't watch as much as you might want), but overall it's good for the biggest fans.

 

It does make it harder for folks who casually watch to get access. I honestly don't know what the cost benefit analysis is for that, though. Do many of those folks learn to love the team/league because they turned on a random game in the middle of the season? Probably not.

 

Imo they should make sure every knockout match is on some kind of traditional cable or over the air station. That's where you're probably going to pick up new fans. It is difficult when playoffs coincide with college football and NFL in the late fall, which is probably why every playoff game isn't picked up by Fox, ESPN, etc.

31 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

ESPN never paid MLS any attention. A couple years ago, they completely disregarded their pregame show for the MLS Cup Final because a women's college basketball game went into overtime. You actually had to flip over the ESPN News to catch the first few minutes of the MLS game until the bball game ended and they finally put the MLS game on ESPN. The only time SportsCenter ever talked about MLS, or soccer in general, was to us it as a punch line to a joke. ESPN was constantly hostile toward MLS and the sport of soccer, so good riddance to them. 

I get your point, but I have certainly noticed it’s now at ZERO attention unfortunately. It’s a lot of ESPN hate going around especially in college football (lol FSU) but it doesn’t change the fact ESPN is the Kingpin in sports reach and without them or NBC, FOX, CBS a league is pretty irrelevant to the casual viewer.

 

23 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

It does make it harder for folks who casually watch to get access. I honestly don't know what the cost benefit analysis is for that, though. Do many of those folks learn to love the team/league because they turned on a random game in the middle of the season? Probably not.

And this was my point exactly, if your already a big fan of the league getting all the games on Apple is simple and great but for the sake of growth and the casual fan for which you need to grow into a consistent viewer it’s horrible.

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by 646empire

30 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

As a longtime Crew fan and fan of MLS in general, I'm so pumped to have another ambitious team just 100 miles away. Crew victory aside, Saturday's game is something I've been waiting for for a long time. These two teams meeting in the highest possible stakes game (they can't ever meet in a MLS or US Open Cup final) was amazing and I hope we se more of it in the coming seasons!

Yeah it was great to see, and honestly this was the first time that I wasn’t mad at the crew winning and that’s the vibe I’ve been getting since the game in the city it’s more “hats off to them” which is nice for once.

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by 646empire

1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:

For active fans, it's a better deal than a hodgepodge mix of different rights holders. With the Apple TV deal you can watch every single match (regular season, playoffs, and Leagues Cup tournament). Season ticket holders get free access, too. There are no blackouts for local teams, no regional restrictions (Apple is the global rights holder) and no blackouts if a game is picked up for national TV. There are some issues (no Android app, too many matches air simultaneously so you can't watch as much as you might want), but overall it's good for the biggest fans.

 

Does Apple TV allow you to save/record live sports for later?

  

42 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I get your point, but I have certainly noticed it’s now at ZERO attention unfortunately. It’s a lot of ESPN hate going around especially in college football (lol FSU) but it doesn’t change the fact ESPN is the Kingpin in sports reach and without them or NBC, FOX, CBS a league is pretty irrelevant to the casual viewer.

And this was my point exactly, if your already a big fan of the league getting all the games on Apple is simple and great but for the sake of growth and the casual fan for which you need to grow into a consistent viewer it’s horrible.

 

Is it?  And is that really how casual viewers become fans of a sport?  If you started playing rugby or cricket or something on ESPN prime time, would the mere existence of it taking that slot add new fans to the sport?  There has to be at least some pressure going the other way: ESPN needs eyeball-catching content to sell both ads and subscriptions (i.e., to make itself valuable to cable or streaming channel packages).  Apple TV is the same way, as is any other third party content provider (i.e., anything other than MLS starting its own network and selling its own streaming subscriptions directly to the public).

 

I think filling stadiums and sports bars and even home watch parties with fans comes first, and then the big TV deal follows.  Not to mention that I'm not sure what Apple paid for this or how long their deal is, but my guess is that Apple simply made a pretty smart purchase here (especially if they got a long-term deal, considering how soccer seems to be growing in the US now), and they're going to get the viewership they need to back that up, including (as I'm sure their real goal is) increasing and retaining subscribers despite the streaming TV landscape being increasingly fragmented and competitive.

46 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

Does Apple TV allow you to save/record live sports for later?

 

Yes. If you sit down to watch a game after it's already started, you can select "watch from beginning" and start from the beginning. All games are also recorded and you can immediately watch the full replay after the broadcast ends. You do have to make sure you go into settings and turn off scores so you don't see the final score when you open the app if you are going to watch the game after it's already ended.

I don't know how long they'll keep old games up. Will they clear the library when the new season starts? I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can't imagine there'll be big demand to rewatch many regular season matches from the previous season

25 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I don't know how long they'll keep old games up. Will they clear the library when the new season starts? I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can't imagine there'll be big demand to rewatch many regular season matches from the previous season

 

They currently have all Crew games from 2022 available to watch. They also have various other games available from throughout the years. So this season's games should at least be available on demand through next season.

40 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

I don't know how long they'll keep old games up. Will they clear the library when the new season starts? I guess we'll find out soon enough. I can't imagine there'll be big demand to rewatch many regular season matches from the previous season

 

I was more just thinking like standard DVR so that if two games you want to see are airing at the same time, you can pick one to watch live and watch the other one a day or two later.  But it's even better to know that they put them on VOD for a year or so (maybe more).

3 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

I was more just thinking like standard DVR so that if two games you want to see are airing at the same time, you can pick one to watch live and watch the other one a day or two later.  But it's even better to know that they put them on VOD for a year or so (maybe more).

 

Yea, every league game is available on demand for every team in the league. You don't have to record anything, they are all "recorded" automatically. 

 

Also, I just checked and they actually have most Crew games available to watch dating back to the 2019 season. There might be even more than that. 

2 hours ago, Gramarye said:

Is it?  And is that really how casual viewers become fans of a sport?  If you started playing rugby or cricket or something on ESPN prime time, would the mere existence of it taking that slot add new fans to the sport? 

It’s called out of sight- out of mind. If you don’t have exposure it becomes very hard to grow. To answer your question yes. Of course for growth to be sustained the product (or in this case sports league) needs to be entertaining too. MLS is at a stage when I think exposure on the larger media platforms is critical. The MLS hardcore fan base is pretty good but it’s time to elevate further but with a decade long Apple deal they are pretty boxed in. Anyway this isn’t really FC Cincy related I think it may be a better thread to discuss.

 

Go read about the implosion of the PAC 12 conference and how many in that league wanted no part in a Apple TV deal, and how the Big 12 used its ESPN-Fox deal as a weapon to recruit Pac 12 schools.

Edited December 4, 20231 yr by 646empire

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

And this was my point exactly, if your already a big fan of the league getting all the games on Apple is simple and great but for the sake of growth and the casual fan for which you need to grow into a consistent viewer it’s horrible.

I admit, I used to like watching FC at home when they were on local TV. I am not a big enough soccer fan to pay for Apple's MLS package as I would only watch FC at this point. 

I think there is some merit to the fact that the newer casual fan will not grow their interest as quickly without the likes of ESPN or Fox televising the games. However, I do think that the biggest benefit of the Apple deal that is not talked about is less about growing MLS stateside (those fans will eventually find their way to the stadiums or sports bars, etc) but rather getting MLS an international exposure that it could never achieve with just an ESPN or Fox broadcast.  With Apple, they can be on throughout Europe or the Middle East or Asia and develop a foothold of a following in those countries. When the rabid fan in Italy or England also talks about the MLS, it is almost a bigger win for MLS than getting the local fan. 

Count me in the crowd that considers the AAPL deal a bust for fan engagement.  We go to the occasional FC game and I have a couple kids that play rec-soccer at their schools because soccer for them is just for fun and not their primary sport.  So we know the sport, we like it fine, but we are not diehards.  Still, we would watch a lot of the games if they were on local TV but we can't so instead we watch zero.  I was out at a bar in DT Cincinnati during the game prior to dinner on Saturday night and they had the Alabama/GA game on all the TVs probably because they couldn't access the FC game.  It is a real problem for the casual fan.  There is a reason that other sports leagues structure their rights so that they still have access to linear TV audiences.

 

On the MLS TV deal: AAPL paid 2.5bln for 10yrs.  This compares favorably to the old MLS deal which was $90mm/yr relative to the $250mm the league gets under the new deal.  With 29 teams playing 34 regular season games that gets AAPL 493 games a year, plus playoffs we will round that up to 500 to make the math easy.  So MLS gets paid 500k a game.  It is important to note that AAPL gets EVERY SINGLE GAME including playoffs.  That is a big deal for AAPL to get everything but it is nothing to them in the grand scheme of things due to how much cash they have on the b/s.

Now for context....AMZN is in the midst of a $13bln deal (through 2033) for Thursday night football.  This is Thursday night ONLY.  It may include a playoff game or two late in each season, you can look up the details if you really care but AMZN is paying $67 million PER GAME relative to the MLS deal of 500k per game.  Just to put things in context of how little MLS is actually worth.  Now we are comping MLS to the 800lb gorilla that is the NFL but if you comp it against NBA, MLB, NHL, you will find a shocking disparity in the value it receives as far as the rights are concerned.  MLS is very popular in local markets but it simply is not that valuable on a national or global scale and it may never be.

10 minutes ago, tabasco said:

I was out at a bar in DT Cincinnati during the game prior to dinner on Saturday night and they had the Alabama/GA game on all the TVs probably because they couldn't access the FC game. 

Same, I was out downtown and it was kinda strange knowing it was a big Cincy/Crew east finals game taking place yet 99% of bar and restaurants didn’t have it on, that hurts bad. I’ve read that Apple/MLS can terminate the deal after a certain number of years if certain numbers aren’t hit. So we shall see.

 

In other news I’m excited about FC Cincys giant mix use project about to kick off early next year and loving the height/density that they are planning around the stadium it’s gonna be big time!

Wait….you guys refer to the team as FC? 

24 minutes ago, tabasco said:

Count me in the crowd that considers the AAPL deal a bust for fan engagement.  We go to the occasional FC game and I have a couple kids that play rec-soccer at their schools because soccer for them is just for fun and not their primary sport.  So we know the sport, we like it fine, but we are not diehards.  Still, we would watch a lot of the games if they were on local TV but we can't so instead we watch zero.  I was out at a bar in DT Cincinnati during the game prior to dinner on Saturday night and they had the Alabama/GA game on all the TVs probably because they couldn't access the FC game.  It is a real problem for the casual fan.  There is a reason that other sports leagues structure their rights so that they still have access to linear TV audiences.

 

On the MLS TV deal: AAPL paid 2.5bln for 10yrs.  This compares favorably to the old MLS deal which was $90mm/yr relative to the $250mm the league gets under the new deal.  With 29 teams playing 34 regular season games that gets AAPL 493 games a year, plus playoffs we will round that up to 500 to make the math easy.  So MLS gets paid 500k a game.  It is important to note that AAPL gets EVERY SINGLE GAME including playoffs.  That is a big deal for AAPL to get everything but it is nothing to them in the grand scheme of things due to how much cash they have on the b/s.

Now for context....AMZN is in the midst of a $13bln deal (through 2033) for Thursday night football.  This is Thursday night ONLY.  It may include a playoff game or two late in each season, you can look up the details if you really care but AMZN is paying $67 million PER GAME relative to the MLS deal of 500k per game.  Just to put things in context of how little MLS is actually worth.  Now we are comping MLS to the 800lb gorilla that is the NFL but if you comp it against NBA, MLB, NHL, you will find a shocking disparity in the value it receives as far as the rights are concerned.  MLS is very popular in local markets but it simply is not that valuable on a national or global scale and it may never be.

 

This past season Apple did air like 25% of matches for free on Apple TV. You didn't need to pay anything, just download the app or go to the website. Obviously if you want to watch every match, that's not enough, and your schedule might not align with the games they air for free.

 

I think you hit on something with this, though, which is exactly why this was in the best interest for MLS. The rights holders on linear TV are in bidding wars for NFL primetime matches and college football. Fox put a ton of money into owning the rights of the World Series, and that is almost certainly going to backfire on them. The NFL is a sure thing for ratings. NBA is good, but outside of playoffs and the Christmas matches, they don't have the same cache that the NFL has, and I would bet it's probably the second biggest sport in the US for TV viewership per game. It's increasingly difficult to compete with any football games on TV. MLS gets beat out for TV by the likes of a MAC Championship game on ESPN. People will watch a random team they don't care about in football, but the same can't be said about soccer. MAC Championship was Miami (OH) vs. Toledo. MLS Eastern Conference Final was Cincinnati vs. Columbus. All 4 of these teams are exclusively in Ohio. Despite the hype of the MLS matchup, if the two games were on identical channels, the MAC Championship game would far outpace the MLS Playoff game. So MLS can either fight their way into getting on linear TV and then have ESPN upset that they didn't get good ratings, or they can get a similar viewership on Apple TV and get paid more per game.

 

The NHL and MLB are both doing pretty poor on linear TV. Rights holders are losing money and I would expect the NHL to evaluate how MLS is doing to see if the model is worthwhile to them. Currently, out of market games in the NHL are available with ESPN+, which has a lot of other live content. But the NHL could probably get a good amount of money by going behind a paywall on Amazon, Apple, etc. 

10 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Wait….you guys refer to the team as FC? 

 

Some people do. It doesn't really make sense unless you were to refer to them as "the FC" or something (The Football Club). It was a sore spot for fans for a long time (some people still make fun of people who do it, but at this point I've accepted it as an alternative). The proper shortening is FCC. Not sure how it started, but it might be because the original logo looked like

FC
CINCINNATI

1 minute ago, cbussoccer said:

Wait….you guys refer to the team as FC? 

Welcome to my hell. 

9 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

(some people still make fun of people who do it, but at this point I've accepted it as an alternative).

Traitor. 

 

😉 

2 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

 

Some people do. It doesn't really make sense unless you were to refer to them as "the FC" or something (The Football Club). It was a sore spot for fans for a long time (some people still make fun of people who do it, but at this point I've accepted it as an alternative). The proper shortening is FCC. Not sure how it started, but it might be because the original logo looked like

FC
CINCINNATI

Oh I totally get it. I’ve been a soccer fan for decades, and to hear people referring to a team as FC is hilarious to me lol. But I guess that’s the disconnect between general American sports fan and people who understand global soccer, and trying to mesh the two together. 
 

@Gordon BombayI can’t even begin to imagine your pain, lol

FC Cincy apparently making some big time moves this off season. They are definitely aiming to win a championship asap. Love to see it. 

 

https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/soccer/usmnt-defender-miles-robinson-signs-with-fc-cincinnati

 
https://www.wcpo.com/sports/fc-cincinnati/sources-fc-cincinnati-finalizing-deal-to-acquire-powerhouse-forward-corey-baird

 

Ive also heard big news is coming in regards to Cincy hosting other big time soccer events.

Edited January 8, 20241 yr by 646empire

FC Cincinnati franchise valuation has soared to $645 million, expert says

By Steve Watkins – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 25, 2024

 

FC Cincinnati’s franchise value jumped in the past year after it posted Major League Soccer’s best regular-season record. But that’s not even the main reason the valuation soared.

 

FC Cincinnati is now worth an estimated $645 million, according to annual valuation estimates compiled by digital sports business publication Sportico. That’s up 17% from Sportico’s year-ago estimate that the franchise was worth $550 million.

The club ranked in the middle, 14th of 29 MLS teams, in valuation. That's up from 16th a year ago. Its value fell just short of the MLS average of $678 million. Los Angeles FC had the highest valuation at $1.15 billion.

 

MORE

FC Cincinnati announces permanent home stadium for MLS Next Pro team, FC Cincinnati 2

By Abby Miller – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 1, 2024

 

FC Cincinnati’s reserve team has found a forever home that will trigger stadium upgrades on a local college campus.

 

FC Cincinnati 2, the MLS Next Pro team affiliated with the soccer club, will permanently locate at Northern Kentucky’s University’s Scudamore Field, the university and soccer club told the Business Courier.

 

Since its inception in 2022, FC Cincinnati 2 has played the vast majority of its games at Scudamore Field, located on Louie B Nunn Drive in Highland Heights. Its 2022 schedule included one game at the Mercy Health Training Center – FC’s $35 million training facility in Milford – and another at TQL Stadium in Cincinnati’s West End. It similarly played one game at TQL during the 2023 season.

 

MORE

Love to hear this for NKU and FCC!

Story of FCC just released on Apple TV. great shots of the city and I believe it's free to watch. 

FCCincy Ownership is bidding for a women’s team. A strong bid I’m sure in all areas. Soccer is very strong in this market, wealthy ownership and top notch facilities already built.
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/06/12/nwsl-expansion-bid-update-cincinnati-fc-cincinnati.html

10 minutes ago, 646empire said:

FCCincy Ownership is bidding for a women’s team. A strong bid I’m sure in all areas. Soccer is very strong in this market, wealthy ownership and top notch facilities already built.
 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/06/12/nwsl-expansion-bid-update-cincinnati-fc-cincinnati.html

Having the training facilities and soccer specific stadium already in place is a huge head start.The Woman's National team has played at TQL to sold out games multiple times in the last 3 years.Add in Cincinnati metro  produces some best woman's players in the US.Looking likely to happen.

If you look at an aerial photo of the Mercy Health Training Center you can see that there's another half of the building waiting to be built for a women's team. TQL stadium already has a home women's locker room that was put in place for a NWSL team. I don't see how Cincinnati would be passed over for this round of expansion.

FC  Cincinnati and the group out of Cleveland have put in official bids. I think both get in but Cincinnati first due to the already existing stadium and training ground. 

https://spectrumnews1.com/oh/columbus/news/2024/07/29/cincinnati--cleveland-up-for-next-nwsl-team

Big signing by FC Cincinnati, a truly talented player and spending 16 million dollars on the most expensive transfer fee in MLS History. Ownership is definitely trying to win it all still.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/42488934/fc-cincinnati-mls-transfer-record-cercle-brugge-kevin-denkey

 

 

Looks like things are heating up on Cincys women’s team bid!

Caitlin Clark part of Cincinnati group in NWSL expansion bid

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/42530907/caitlin-clark-part-cincinnati-group-nwsl-expansion-bid

 

In my opinion, this all but seals it for Cincinnati. You wouldn't put it out there that one of the most famous women in the country is part of the ownership group without knowing that it's in the bag. Otherwise you and the NWSL have egg on your face. 

Tend to agree!

NWSL should make the decision in the next few weeks. From what I heard from people who would know, it seems the thing that might hurt Cincinnati is that the FCC ownership isn't too keen on the high expansion fee for NWSL. Keep in mind that the FCC paid roughly $150 million to enter MLS in 2019, and NWSL is asking for around $100 million. While the ownership has the money, I can see why they're hesitant to spend that much. The FCC pitch is basically that it has a built-in fanbase, a great women's soccer culture in the tri-state already and the facilities are ready to go.

 

I think Cincinnati is the favorite, but if Cleveland and/or Denver want to overpay, I could see it going there.

1 hour ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

I think Cincinnati is the favorite, but if Cleveland and/or Denver want to overpay, I could see it going there.

 

No idea how much this weighs in, but the midwest has been underrepresented so far in both of the women's pro leagues. So I hope it's either Cincy or Cleveland and not Denver. 

On 11/25/2024 at 9:53 AM, JaceTheAce41 said:

Cincinnati is the favorite, but if Cleveland and/or Denver want to overpay, I could see it going there.

Looks like Denver over paid. Shesh 100 Million+. I don’t think Lindner/Cincy wants a team that bad.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/43028273/denver-group-exclusive-talks-next-nwsl-franchise

I’m pretty bummed, to be honest 

Lucho has been traded to Dallas (the city absolutely loved him). But they pick up another absolute star in Evander. FC Cincy ownership has been spending record amounts of money this off season they certainly want a championship NOW,  Multiple as a matter of fact, great to see!
 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/43891368/fc-cincinnati-signs-evander-portland-timbers-12m-deal

 

MLS is not ready for what FC Cincinnati just pulled off

 

“With Kévin Denkey and Luca Orellano alongside him, Cincinnati’s attack has the potential to become one of the most dangerous in the league.”

 

“The club had already spent $16.2 million to bring in Kévin Denkey from Cercle Brugge and made Luca Orellano’s loan from Vasco da Gama permanent. These significant investments signal that the team isn’t just looking to compete, they’re aiming to dominate.”

 

https://mlsmultiplex.com/mls-is-not-ready-for-what-fc-cincinnati-just-pulled-off-01jmctm8dkz0

 

 

Edited February 19Feb 19 by 646empire

This was a good move IMO. With the addition of Denkey, you want a 10 that will distribute the ball and Lucho, while an incredible player, was also very selfish at times. I'd hate for KD to come here and not score because the other main guy won't pass to him. Evander is less defensive-minded than Lucho and isn't as good of a dribbler but I think that is a good thing. I'm excited for this season.