June 15, 20177 yr I have a hard time believing that a MLS team would let a public high school use its stadium regularly ... other than maybe a few payoff games per year as a sign of goodwill towards the community. Remember the huge ordeal about marching bands destroying the grass in Paul Brown Stadium (back when they still had grass)? There was actually some truth to it, it wasn't just the fault of the bands but overuse of the grass in general. They had to replace it several times, at a cost of something like $100k each time (paid for by the citizens of Hamilton County). I don't think FCC would be as willing to let people use their stadium for events, high school games, etc. as people are suggesting. I especially don't see them giving a high school free reign to use it as a home field.
June 15, 20177 yr Author Yeah it won't be any other team's home field. It will host special events (high school championship games and the like), but it won't be used on a weekly basis by anyone except FCC.
June 15, 20177 yr So is it a given that Cincy is a lock for MLS bid pending stadium deal finalization? Are they #1 #2 candidate? FC Cincinnati upset Columbus Crew in US Open Cup before record crowd Record crowd of 30,160 watch USL’s FC Cincinnati upset MLS’s Crew A crowd of 30,160 turned out to watch FC Cincinnati’s 1-0 upset of the top-flight Columbus Crew on Wednesday night in the fourth round of the US Open Cup. Djiby Fall’s header in the 64th minute made the difference for the second-year club of the United Soccer League, which shares second-division status with the NASL in the United States pyramid. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/15/fc-cincinnati-us-open-cup-columbus-crew#comments
June 15, 20177 yr Author Definitely not a lock. There are many legitimate bids. Charlotte Cincinnati Tampa Detroit Indianapolis Nashville Phoenix Raleigh/Durham Sacramento Saint Louis San Antonio San Diego Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg Saint Louis, Indianapolis, Detroit, and San Diego are all stalling or hit huge roadblocks.
June 15, 20177 yr Yeah it won't be any other team's home field. It will host special events (high school championship games and the like), but it won't be used on a weekly basis by anyone except FCC. There are suggestions that Taft could use it for football and soccer, should that site be chosen. Even if that ends up being nixed from the equation or another site is chosen, special events are all PBS was required to host and problems with the grass were routine. Grass is just one example of why the claim that the stadium could be utilized all the time for all sorts of events is a bit of a fantasy. Even with synthetic turf, PBS is rarely used for anything aside from Bengals games.
June 15, 20177 yr Definitely not a lock. There are many legitimate bids. Charlotte Cincinnati Tampa Detroit Indianapolis Nashville Phoenix Raleigh/Durham Sacramento Saint Louis San Antonio San Diego Tampa Bay/St. Petersburg Saint Louis, Indianapolis, Detroit, and San Diego are all stalling or hit huge roadblocks. How many of those have existing pro soccer teams? Checked attendance Cincy's attendance is superior to all, by a lot.
June 15, 20177 yr ^ attendance is only one piece of the puzzle. Market size, corporate sponsorship, ownership group, etc. Cincy is a small market in an area where there is concentration of teams (CBUS, Chicago). Therefore, Cincy needs all the other factors to be perfect to get a team. Even with the top attendance and stadium deal in place, they could be passed over for a market like phoenix or tampa which are larger and have better demographics long term than Cincy. They may pick a shakier stadium plan group or a team with less attendance, or demand more from the Cincy group in terms of Stadium availability and other issues than they would the other markets. Point is Cincy has zero room for error where the other cities have some margin.
June 16, 20177 yr 'HELL IS REAL,' and so is FC Cincinnati's threat to Columbus Read more at https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/features/hell-is-real-derby-fc-cincinnati-threat-columbus-crew-mls-usl#LBI902gwtGcRxAfP.99 "The Seattle-Portland rivalry might be the most coveted in American soccer, but this week showed two Midwestern clubs could have just as much fun." Been to many games in Seattle. Been to a game in Portland. I was very excited to read the above comparison. And it also made me want FCC to buy Nippert from UC so we can stay there.
June 17, 20177 yr FCC has a deal in the works for a $25M headquarters and practice fields in ... Clermont County. Meh.
June 19, 20177 yr WCPO Insider... Can FC Cincinnati leverage more out of Newport, Cincinnati for stadium? The future location of Futbol Club Cincinnati’s professional stadium could hinge on which city – Cincinnati or Newport, Kentucky – is the highest bidder. The team, which is vying for one of the open spots in Major League Soccer, is considering sites in both cities to build a roughly $200 million stadium. FC Cincinnati ownership plans to kick in $100 million, which would still leave as much a $100 million funding hole. In a talk with supporters last week, FC Cincinnati CEO Carl Lindner III made it clear: The team will go to the city that offers support for the stadium’s construction. Cont "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
June 19, 20177 yr Author FCC has a deal in the works for a $25M headquarters and practice fields in ... Clermont County. Meh. Not worried about that. The practice fields for the Crew are in the middle of nowhere. No need for those to be in the city proper. They need cheap land and it won't be a destination.
June 19, 20177 yr ^Yeah... it annoys me to no end that the Bengals use up ~8 acres of prime riverfront real estate for their practice fields next to Paul Brown. Those practice fields are used by the public only a handful of days. Not the highest and best use of that land.
June 19, 20177 yr ^ Right now I would not consider that prime Riverfront land. Prior to PBS, what was there? It was pretty much a bunch of run down warehouses. The fields give people more reason to visit there now. Plus, now that the Bengals have training camp there it gives people more reason to come to that part of the city.
June 19, 20177 yr FCC has a deal in the works for a $25M headquarters and practice fields in ... Clermont County. Meh. Not worried about that. The practice fields for the Crew are in the middle of nowhere. No need for those to be in the city proper. They need cheap land and it won't be a destination. Yes and no. Not having all the employees and players working in the city of Cincinnati prevents the city from capturing as much of their taxes as possible. On the other hand, we're not talking big money since it's minor league soccer and even if they make the jump to MSL, players salaries don't seem to be crazy high. There's a lot to dislike with how the Bengals operate but at least their entire operation is in the city. Ditto for the Reds. So most of the taxes workers/players pay are in the city. Granted, I know a lot of players live in NKY. How much of Joey Votto's $25M a year go to the city? I think Newport might have the advantage for the stadium if Bill Butler (Corporex) is involved. I haven't seen his name in the news in ages. He was the kingmaker in NKY. I can see him being able to put something together. FCC stadium could jumpstart Ovation. The renderings show Ovation type buildings.
June 19, 20177 yr Author Visiting players pay taxes to the city they are playing in. I imagine it would be the same for home players.
June 19, 20177 yr Visiting players pay taxes to the city they are playing in. I imagine it would be the same for home players. Whoa?! Is that true for all major league sports? Seems like a nightmare to keep track of (lucrative for the accountants!).
June 19, 20177 yr Technically consultants who travel for work are supposed to pay income tax in the cities where they work, but that's hard to enforce and most don't do it. For pro athletes, I suppose it's a lot easier and more worthwhile for the IRS to keep track of, since the game schedules are public knowledge and the athletes make so much money.
June 19, 20177 yr Visiting players pay taxes to the city they are playing in. I imagine it would be the same for home players. Whoa?! Is that true for all major league sports? Seems like a nightmare to keep track of (lucrative for the accountants!). It isn't the league or sport it is the city or state that does it. Players usually get credited in their own local taxes though. As an example if you reside in Cincy and work in Blue Ash, you pay 1.1 % to Cincy and Blue Ash gets 1%. It is called the Jock Tax.
June 20, 20177 yr Nashville's MLS bid centers around just one location -- the Nashville Fairgrounds: https://www.google.com/maps/search/nashville+fairgrounds/@36.1336645,-86.765772,1715m/data=!3m1!1e3 That news caught my interest because like FC Cincinnati, the Nashville ownership group is a billionaire family (the Ingrams) and they are seeking out public land which they presumably can get for free or cheap. People know these clubs are owned by billionaire families so they're going to hold out and hold out and hold out. Perhaps Bill Butler is willing to let go of some of that Newport land for cheap, but FC Cincinnati could in theory get the Taft HS site for free in lieu of special annual payments directly to Cincinnati Public Schools. They could do a 100-year land lease of the site so that CPS retains title and the land is not subject to the typical stew of property taxes.
June 20, 20177 yr Visiting players pay taxes to the city they are playing in. I imagine it would be the same for home players. The Jock Tax yes. A ton of cities(including Cincy) and states (Calif.) have one, but I meant regular old taxes like payroll, property and sales taxes. With the headquarters in Clermont Cty, the city would miss out. Plus that's $25M could be used toward the new stadium. And that opens FCC to criticism the stadium will only be used 17x a year. The Bengals always get hammer about PBS "only" being used 10x a year, but really it's their office 5 days a week, all year. They have about 85 office personal working at PBS. http://www.bengals.com/team/staff-directory.html And if your curious, the Reds have a ton more. I can't count that high. http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/front_office.jsp?c_id=cin
June 20, 20177 yr Deadspin is a very dumb website but for some reason people read it. Here's their take on the new stadium: Cincinnati, Home Of Terrible Stadium Deals, Is Being Extorted For A New MLS Stadium http://deadspin.com/cincinnati-home-of-terrible-stadium-deals-is-being-ex-1796232899
June 20, 20177 yr Author ^The actual text of the article wasn't too inflammatory, but the headline is clickbait. Deadspin is against any public involvement in any sports anywhere in any fashion. And I think it's ridiculous. I agree that communities shouldn't be footing the bill for a stadium like Paul Brown entirely on their own. But some public involvement is expected and reasonable.
June 20, 20177 yr The bigger question is if they come after Taft High School itself, which is only about 12 years old and try to do a land swap. Enrollment at Taft has been steadily, and quickly, declining....
June 23, 20177 yr Author On Wednesday, June 14 FC Cincinnati hosted the Columbus Crew with an attendance of 30,160. This is the third highest attendance for any US Open Cup match in modern history (both higher attendances were set in finals by Seattle Sounders). That clearly got national attention, and for the first time in years, ESPN will be broadcasting a US Open Cup match that is not a final. FC Cincinnati will be hosting Chicago Fire of MLS on Wednesday, June 28. The game will be broadcast on ESPN2. Kickoff has been pushed back to 8:00pm to accommodate the broadcast. More details here.
June 26, 20177 yr Nashville's MLS bid centers around just one location -- the Nashville Fairgrounds: https://www.google.com/maps/search/nashville+fairgrounds/@36.1336645,-86.765772,1715m/data=!3m1!1e3 That news caught my interest because like FC Cincinnati, the Nashville ownership group is a billionaire family (the Ingrams) and they are seeking out public land which they presumably can get for free or cheap. People know these clubs are owned by billionaire families so they're going to hold out and hold out and hold out. Perhaps Bill Butler is willing to let go of some of that Newport land for cheap, but FC Cincinnati could in theory get the Taft HS site for free in lieu of special annual payments directly to Cincinnati Public Schools. They could do a 100-year land lease of the site so that CPS retains title and the land is not subject to the typical stew of property taxes. I tried to get FCC to put their stadium at the Hamilton County Fairgrounds. They were not interested.
June 26, 20177 yr Does anyone have an opinion on this? It seems as if FCC is trying to get a Cincinnati deal, but they want the plans secret. There doesn't seem to be any negotiation or planning of this kind of secrecy on the NKY side. Is it normal to have non-disclosure agreements for something like this but it's just getting press do to its potentially political significance? http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/21/two-pols-promised-secrecy-fc-stadium-talks/417044001/
June 26, 20177 yr Does anyone have an opinion on this? It seems as if FCC is trying to get a Cincinnati deal, but they want the plans secret. There doesn't seem to be any negotiation or planning of this kind of secrecy on the NKY side. Is it normal to have non-disclosure agreements for something like this but it's just getting press do to its potentially political significance? http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/06/21/two-pols-promised-secrecy-fc-stadium-talks/417044001/ This is one of the things that concerns me: I prefer the West End as the top option and Newport second, but are there any, concrete details about money on either side of the river? Some seem to think that Newport is "shovel ready," are there any concrete examples of financing/assistance/agreements in place? And if the club wants Cincinnati, what exactly are they requesting from the county/city? I think it's reasonable to expect some sort of political support, but what exact type of support is that? Money that could be used elsewhere? Tax Incremental Financing? Infrastructure? Sorry, but the kind of information needs to be out there if they want to win the PR battle.
June 26, 20177 yr I think that the West End is FCC's first choice, but they are dangling the Newport stadium idea out there in order to get Cincinnati/HamCo to offer more incentives. I'm thinking that HamCo will either propose a new tax on hotel rooms, car rentals, and tickets (stadium, arts, etc.); or they will simply leverage the existing stadium tax to issue new bonds, if they can get away with it legally. On top of that, the city would probably put a TIF district around the stadium site and leverage that for funding the street improvements and utility work needed for the stadium. It will likely be built by the Port Authority so that construction materials are tax exempt and then sold to its final owner, either FCC or the county. If the stadium ends up being owned by the county, it won't pay property taxes. Those are all the tax loopholes I can think of right now, but I'm sure there's more that's possible...
June 26, 20177 yr I don't believe that there is any special status to the "stadium" sales tax. It was simply an increase in the county's overall sales tax. People need to step back and realize that the overall cost of this project is very low compared to Paul Brown Stadium or Great American Ballpark. It will be a much smaller building, and either would likely cost twice as much now as they did in 1998 and 2001.
June 26, 20177 yr The most dangerous part of the county giving FCC money is that it creates a slippery slope where either the city or county are pressured to invest in a new US Bank Arena.
June 27, 20177 yr I'm surprised that the NW corner of MLK and Reading wasn't considered for a potential stadium site. We have a brand new interchange at MLK that can get cars quickly to and from the stadium, and virtually every arterial street in the area was widened as well. For all the people who pregame at Mecklenburg Gardens, it would be a shorter walk to the new stadium than the current walk to Nippert Stadium. It would still be convenient for UC students and easily accessible via bus. In the photo below, it's the top right corner:
June 27, 20177 yr Do you really wonder that or are you just showing off that awesome drone? For real, this would've been a really good site to consider.
June 27, 20177 yr There was a preservation battle on that site in the 70s-80s, a beautiful old school building was demolished there
June 27, 20177 yr The buildings and holdover streets in the bottom right corner are not long for this world.
June 27, 20177 yr So then why isn't FC Cincinnati considering this as a potential site? “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
June 27, 20177 yr So then why isn't FC Cincinnati considering this as a potential site? I remember back when Xavier planned Cintas Center thinking that they could build a shared arena with UC at this site. Would have saved each school $50+ million, but it made too much sense so it couldn't happen.
June 29, 20177 yr Victory! I've never watched more than a few minutes of soccer, but I may have been hooked tonight. I wish I would have gone to the game. Such a great atmosphere and it really is a shame that Nippert can't be used as an MLS stadium.
June 29, 20177 yr FC Cincinnati downs Chicago Fire on penalty kicks, 3-1 FINAL: FC Cincinnati 0, Chicago Fire 0 (FC Cincinnati wins, 3-1, on penalty kicks). A superlative performance by FC Cincinnati goalkeeper Mitch Hildebrandt sent the club through to the Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup quarterfinals. In penalty kicks, Hildebrandt saved three of the four shots he faced. Meanwhile, FC Cincinnati converted three out of four takes to win the match, 3-1, in penalties. Cincinnati will now travel to Miami FC for its quarterfinal match. Miami beat Atlanta United FC of MLS earlier Wednesday. More below: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/soccer/fc-cincinnati/2017/06/28/live-updates-fc-cincinnati-vs-chicago-fire-u-s-open-cup/437900001/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
June 29, 20177 yr What a game! CHI comes out attacking and FCC starts out on their heels, to put it nicely. Then at the 30 min. mark FCC starts playing. Midway second half they are the aggressor now! Hey there's Aodhan Quinn, gotta love the Akron Zips alums. I used to watch his dad play for the San Diego Sockers. Times running out....and it's a breakaway!!! How in the world does that Bone guy miss? Handball in the box NOT called on CHI defender. An outrage! Times up. OT/Shootout/yadda/yadda/yadda. Just another great show in front of a national audience :-)
June 29, 20177 yr Yeah the game tonight was so fun! The only complaint i would have is i felt it was a little disrespectful to boo a world cup winning player every time he took a corner kick and when it was his turn at penalties. I feel with these cup games and other games in the past where there are crowds of 25-30000+ the new stadium really should be designed to hold 25-30000 at least, not 20-25000 like what was reported on a couple weeks ago. If you build it, they will come!
June 29, 20177 yr Yeah the game tonight was so fun! The only complaint i would have is i felt it was a little disrespectful to boo a world cup winning player every time he took a corner kick and when it was his turn at penalties. I feel with these cup games and other games in the past where there are crowds of 25-30000+ the new stadium really should be designed to hold 25-30000 at least, not 20-25000 like what was reported on a couple weeks ago. If you build it, they will come! Shrinking stadium size is a national trend across all professional sports. Though, I love the idea of having an MLS stadium that sells out at 30k
June 29, 20177 yr I'm surprised that the NW corner of MLK and Reading wasn't considered for a potential stadium site. We have a brand new interchange at MLK that can get cars quickly to and from the stadium, and virtually every arterial street in the area was widened as well. For all the people who pregame at Mecklenburg Gardens, it would be a shorter walk to the new stadium than the current walk to Nippert Stadium. It would still be convenient for UC students and easily accessible via bus. In the photo below, it's the top right corner: Bunch of office buildings, garages, hotel being marketed in that area.
June 29, 20177 yr The FC Cincinnati situation is fascinating to me for a number of reasons. First of all, this run through the U.S. Open Cup is impressive, particularly with the amount of enthusiasm it has generated in the Queen City in just a few years of existence. In terms of Cincy's chances of being elevated to MLS, it's looking more and more like there's a really strong chance of that happening. I read a piece in Sports Illustrated recently that details how many of the other potential MLS locales are much weaker than previously imagined and that the list of 12 may only consist of 5-6 legitimate bids. MLS should and probably does realize, however, that Cincinnati's bid doesn't exist in a complete bubble. The franchise just down the road in Columbus is struggling for attendance and some have argued that the city should be exploring building a new stadium for the team. Further, it was just three years ago that MLS Commissioner Don Garber, when asked about a potential expansion team in Cleveland (an idea that almost came to fruition a decade ago), stated, "What I would say to folks that are living in Cincinnati, the folks that are living in Dayton, folks that are living in Cleveland: Support the [Columbus] Crew." In looking at the bigger picture, it's hard to imagine that an expansion team in Cincinnati won't cannabalize at least some fans from the Crew, though to what extent is hard to know for sure. Worst case scenario, I don't think it's a stretch to believe it's possible that expansion to Cincinnati might be the first step towards the Crew folding or moving to another city.
June 29, 20177 yr Well, I, culturally speaking, do not hope that the Crew folds or moves to a new city. I do hope an intrastate rivalry emerges with two teams at the MLS level. Something as rich as Portland-Seattle but more potent because Cincinnati and Columbus are nearly twice as close. I hope each team emboldens and concentrates the local flavor of the places each represent in the way that soccer fans are able to pull up cultural obscurities and shine new light on historical, geological, local humor. Lukewarm Columbus fans are redoubling on their support for the Crew. Originally from Wilmington, smack dab between the two cities, I want both to succeed and I feel like the markets are big enough to support that success.
June 29, 20177 yr I think having a built in natural rival makes fan support more 'real'. As a person who doesn't really care about baseball or soccer, the only games I find myself going to are against teams from Columbus, Louisville, Pittsburgh, St. Louis etc. Half the fun of being a UC or UK fan is making fun of Xavier or Louisville respectively. Without a good rival, sports become boring. Look how mad Dayton was when Xavier left their conference. I think if the nearest MLS rival was Chicago or Atlanta only real soccer fans would be going to these games, but with civic pride on the line many people who go to the games (myself included) are going more because they like cheering for <insert local sports team> who represents "their city", and because they like having a good time.
July 1, 20177 yr I ran across a physical copy of The Enquirer on Friday and saw that they ran an FC Cincinnati cover story and inside they had Paul Daugherty write a separate story. What's interesting about this is that The Enquirer paid Karl Lindner $10 million back in 1999 and promised to never negatively report on Chiquita or any o his other businesses. You've got to wonder how much Lindner's boys are twisting the paper's elbows and how much of it is a slow news week. Also, the paper might think it's going to attract a younger and broader audience.
July 1, 20177 yr I ran across a physical copy of The Enquirer on Friday and saw that they ran an FC Cincinnati cover story and inside they had Paul Daugherty write a separate story. What's interesting about this is that The Enquirer paid Karl Lindner $10 million back in 1999 and promised to never negatively report on Chiquita or any o his other businesses. You've got to wonder how much Lindner's boys are twisting the paper's elbows and how much of it is a slow news week. Also, the paper might think it's going to attract a younger and broader audience. Okayyyy... There were over 32K fans at Nippert that Day. The game was televised on ESPN, a national stage, and the game itself was a miracle and was a nail biter to say the least. You essentially had the Louisville Bats defeat the Chicago Cubs in a 1 game playoff. Not to even mention the fact that Chicago has one of the most legendary soccer players of our generation in Shweinsteiger who was the main cog who helped Germany secure the World Cup in 2014. Everyone the day after was talking about this match, and whether they were at the match or watched on ESPN. So your post honestly makes you sound as if your someone who just doesn't, "get it".
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