November 10, 20204 yr what's old is new again -- sorta. all about the beach pneumatic subway: https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit The New York Herald says "it was virtually the opening day of the first underground railway in America." The New York Times says: "Certainly the most novel, if not the most successful, enterprise that New York has seen for many a day is the pneumatic tunnel under Broadway. A myth, or a humbug, it has hitherto been called by everybody who has been excluded from its interior; but hereafter the incredulous public can have the opportunity of examining the undertaking and judging of its merits. "Yesterday the tunnel was thrown open to the inspection of visitors for the first time and it must be said that every one of them came away surprised and gratified. Such as expected to find a dismal cavernous retreat under Broadway, opened their eyes at the elegant reception room, the light, airy tunnel, and the general appearance of taste and comfort in all the apartments; and those who entered to pick out some scientific flaw in the project, were silenced by the completeness of the machinery, the solidity of the work, and the safety of the running apparatus." The Evening Mail says: "The problem of tunneling Broadway has been solved. There is no mistake about it. Even as we write, a comfortable passenger car is running smoothly and safely between Warren and Murray streets, demonstrating, beyond contradiction, that it is only a question of time and money to give us rapid and comfortable transportation from the Battery to Harlem river."
November 16, 20204 yr Virgin Hyperloop Has Invented The World’s Crappiest High-Speed Rail. Shocking news! In an incredible breakthrough for American mass-transit engineering, the transportation technology company Virgin Hyperloop this past weekend successfully moved two people 500 meters across the barren Las Vegas desert at a top speed of just over 100 mph, setting a new world record for the absolute most pitiful thing anyone not named “Elon Musk” has ever tried to pass off as “high-speed rail.” https://defector.com/virgin-hyperloop-has-invented-the-worlds-crappiest-high-speed-rail/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 21, 20214 yr "Well There's Your Problem" had a (long) video/podcast last year on the difficulties of trying to make a Hyperloop work. It was well over an hour if I remember correctly, but they dive further into the details than Joe does. EDIT - should we break out a separate thread for The Boring Company's "Loop?" Seemed that caused some confusion here a couple months ago. Edited January 21, 20214 yr by DarkandStormy Very Stable Genius
January 21, 20214 yr ^The video claims that Musk has little to do with the Hyperloop but then he went and called his now-defunct project to connect O'Hare with Chicago's Loop a "Loop". So he was both intentionally associating his very-conventional proposal with the Hyperloop and muddying the 100+ year-old use of the term "loop" in Chicago. He's Trump. He's Trump. He's Trump.
January 22, 20214 yr https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/hyperloop-east-coast-musk-says-n-y-d-c-line-approved.html#_ga=2.40311783.499423319.1611328729-1306192803.1611328729 It's been three and a half years since Musk claimed he got verbal approval for an East Coast Hyperloop. Very Stable Genius
March 10, 20214 yr Hyperloop News. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/cleveland-hyperloop-would-propel-passengers-at-700-mph-through-vacuum-sealed-tubes-heres-how-it-works
March 10, 20214 yr 12 hours ago, simplythis said: Hyperloop News. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/cleveland-hyperloop-would-propel-passengers-at-700-mph-through-vacuum-sealed-tubes-heres-how-it-works People have been claiming things like the hyperloop will "work" for over 100 years. Yawn. Very Stable Genius
May 8, 20214 yr virgin hyperloop: https://nypost.com/2021/05/07/virgin-hyperloop-shows-off-the-future-mass-transport-in-floating-magnetic-pods/
May 8, 20214 yr On 3/10/2021 at 11:22 AM, DarkandStormy said: People have been claiming things like the hyperloop will "work" for over 100 years. Yawn. I'm pretty sure they just recycle these same articles over and over every couple months.
May 8, 20214 yr Cause they get clicks. Elon-stans get worked up, normal people show up to make fun of them, they argue, clicks.
May 14, 20214 yr Now it's going to stop in Toledo and be 75% underground. Hype, hype, hype... https://www.13abc.com/2021/05/12/great-lakes-hyperloop-project-proposal-includes-stop-in-toledo/
June 16, 20213 yr 18 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Every single person who interviews, writes about, or considers hyperloop in any way, shape, or form, needs to ask about capacity. Spoiler alert: hyperloop capacity SUCKS!!! I don't understand comments like this, nor why people feel the need to make them. Hyperloop is a nascent technology, that for all intents and purposes doesn't even exist yet. Sure, its current capacity is awful. The capacity of the first plane was one, it will take several iterations of technology for hyperloop to reach a phase where it is useful, if indeed it ever does. I'm not aware of any reason to think that if hyperloop does ever reach a point where it is useful that capacity will be an issue. (Other than if developers choose not too pursue high capacity) Hyperloop (as it is currently being proposed) is a maglev train sealed in a vacuum tube. It isn't a radical departure from high speed rail, but rather high speed rail on steroids. It is often talked about as a significant departure from rail, but I don't think it is any more of a departure than maglev trains are. Clearly we should all root for any new technology with the potential to positively transform our world to succeed. Hyperloop isn't there yet, it may never be there, but I certainly hope it is one day, and I'm actively rooting for companies like Virgin to make it a reality. I imagine most of the criticisms I've seen on this site about hyperloop were at one time said about planes, cars, and even trains, as well as a few technologies that never proved useful. The confidence with which people on this site assure everyone else that hyperloop is the latter instead of the former amuses me. As I can't predict the future, I honestly don't know, but I'm willing to bet no one else does either. :)
June 16, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, Ethan said: I don't understand comments like this, nor why people feel the need to make them. Hyperloop is a nascent technology, that for all intents and purposes doesn't even exist yet. Sure, its current capacity is awful. The capacity of the first plane was one, it will take several iterations of technology for hyperloop to reach a phase where it is useful, if indeed it ever does. I'm not aware of any reason to think that if hyperloop does ever reach a point where it is useful that capacity will be an issue. (Other than if developers choose not too pursue high capacity) Hyperloop (as it is currently being proposed) is a maglev train sealed in a vacuum tube. It isn't a radical departure from high speed rail, but rather high speed rail on steroids. It is often talked about as a significant departure from rail, but I don't think it is any more of a departure than maglev trains are. Clearly we should all root for any new technology with the potential to positively transform our world to succeed. Hyperloop isn't there yet, it may never be there, but I certainly hope it is one day, and I'm actively rooting for companies like Virgin to make it a reality. I imagine most of the criticisms I've seen on this site about hyperloop were at one time said about planes, cars, and even trains, as well as a few technologies that never proved useful. The confidence with which people on this site assure everyone else that hyperloop is the latter instead of the former amuses me. As I can't predict the future, I honestly don't know, but I'm willing to bet no one else does either. :) At this time we don’t know whether hyperloop will be, from a technology standpoint, the next mobile phone or the next flying car. It is unlikely, but not impossible, that the technological limitations will be resolved. Here is a partial list of technology problems that must be overcome: - Maintaining near vacuum in a metal tube. - Safety: check out videos of rail tanker cars under vacuum being crushed like aluminum cans - Cost / energy consumption: operating compressors is expensive and consumes lots of energy - Expansion / contraction of metal. If you ever go on a brewery tour, take a look at the pipes. Any that carry beer will have these strange 90 bends in otherwise straight pipes. Looks like: __|¯¯|__ . This is done because sometimes hot cleaning liquid goes through the pipe, and sometimes cold liquid. If the pipe was simply straight, the contraction of the pipe from cold would break the seal at one end. So they put the little double bend in to enable some give and allow it to expand and contract without breaking seals (which are pretty important for maintaining a vacuum, on our hyperloop comparison). These are for pipes that are 10 to 20 feet long. The hyperloop is a pipe hundreds of miles long. Each end would have to allow for a massive repositioning of the end of the tube. I have yet to read anything even suggesting a solution to this problem. (OK, I did hear someone suggest putting it underground, but that would introduce another bunch of technical and safety challenges.) - No reasonable methodology for intermediate stops. Sorry, Sandusky! - You say it's the same basics as a maglev trains. There's only one maglev train in revenue service (Shanghai - I've posted a video of my ride on it is you want to see what 431 km/h looks like). To my knowledge only one other is under development. Because the added cost isn't justified compared to HSR. (Plus the incompatibility. HSR is compatible with traditional rail, making incremental improvements much more feasible.) But yeah, sure, I suppose someone might solve these problems. My MUCH bigger concern is capacity. I have yet to see any coverage anywhere suggest a vehicle larger than a "pod". They often show just a handful of people. Because of the velocity of these vehicles and the necessary starting/stopping time (so you don't kill the passengers from G forces) that means you would have to have huge spacing between these pods. This really hurts the already bad capacity of the system. By comparison, large HSR carry over 1500 passengers per train! Shanghai - Beijing HSR carries 500,000 passengers per day. This volume is what really makes it useful. The thing that is most frustrating about Hyperloop is that it distracts from actual proven technologies. A Boston-NYC-DC HSR would be paid for in less than ten years by its operating profit. Same with NYC-Pitt-CLE-Chicago. This is NOT something that would have to be subsidized. The Paris - Lyon line was paid for in less than ten years by operating profit. This is completely ignoring the tremendous economic and positive environmental impact of the projects. But hyperloop is the latest in a long series of unproven technology that distracts from investment in the proven technology of HSR. If it wasn't for that distraction, I wouldn't be nearly so irritated by it. It's also frustrating that people are dumping billions into developing hyperloop when they could be investing in HSR that actually has standalone ROI. Hey Dan Gilbert - your property investments in Cleveland and Detroit would be worth a LOT more if you connected the two to each other and to Chicago via HSR. Downtown property values would go up considerably. @KJP nailed it a while back - if hyperloop ever actually becomes a proven technology, I will fully support spending public money on it as a part of the transit system. Until then, I wish people would ignore it. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
June 16, 20213 yr 9 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: At this time we don’t know whether hyperloop will be, from a technology standpoint, the next mobile phone or the next flying car. It is unlikely, but not impossible, the the technological limitations will be resolved. Here is a partial list of technology problems that must be overcome: - Maintaining near vacuum in a metal tube. - Safety: check out videos of rail tanker cars under vacuum being crushed like aluminum cans - Cost / energy consumption: operating compressors is expensive and consumes lots of energy - Expansion / contraction of metal. If you every go on a brewery tour, take a look at the pipes. Any that carry beer will have these strange 90 bends in otherwise straight pipes. Looks like: __|¯¯|__ . This is done because sometimes hot cleaning liquid goes through the pipe, and sometimes cold liquid. If the pipe was simply straight, the contraction of the pipe from cold would break the seal at one end. So they put the little double bend in to enable some give and allow it to expand and contract without breaking seals (which are pretty important for maintaining a vacuum, on our hyperloop comparison). These are for pipes that are 10 to 20 feet long. The hyperloop is a pipe hundreds of miles long. Each end would have to allow for a massive repositioning of the end of the tube. I have yet to read anything even suggesting a solution to this problem. (OK, I did hear someone suggest putting it underground, but that would introduce another bunch of technical and safety challenges.) - No reasonable methodology for intermediate stops. Sorry, Sandusky! - You say it's the same basics as a maglev trains. There's only one maglev train in revenue service (Shanghai - I've posted a video of my ride on it is you want to see what 431 km/h looks like). To my knowledge only one other is under development. Because the added cost isn't justified compared to HSR. (Plus the incompatibility. HSR is compatible with traditional rail, making incremental improvements much more feasible.) But yeah, sure, I suppose someone might solve these problems. My MUCH bigger concern is capacity. I have yet to see any coverage anywhere suggest a vehicle larger than a "pod". They often show just a handful of people. Because of the velocity of these vehicles and the necessary starting/stopping time (so you don't kill the passengers from G forces) that means you would have to have huge spacing between these pods. This really hurts the already bad capacity of the system. By comparison, large HSR carry over 1500 passengers per train! Shanghai - Beijing HSR carries 500,000 passengers per day. This volume is what really makes it useful. The thing that is most frustrating about Hyperloop is that it distracts from actual proven technologies. A Boston-NYC-DC HSR would be paid for in less than ten years by its operating profit. Same with NYC-Pitt-CLE-Chicago. This is NOT something that would have to be subsidized. The Paris - Lyon line was paid for in less than ten years by operating profit. This is completely ignoring the tremendous economic and positive environmental impact of the projects. But hyperloop is the latest in a long series of unproven technology that distracts from investment in the proven technology of HSR. If it wasn't for that distraction, I wouldn't be nearly so irritated by it. It's also frustrating that people are dumping billions into developing hyperloop when they could be investing in HSR that actually has standalone ROI. Hey Dan Gilbert - your property investments in Cleveland and Detroit would be worth a LOT more if you connected the two to each other and to Chicago via HSR. Downtown property values would go up considerably. @KJP nailed it a while back - if hyperloop ever actually becomes a proven technology, I will fully support spending public money on it as a part of the transit system. Until then, I wish people would ignore it. Thanks for the response! For the record I'm a mechanical engineer, so I'm well aware of the technical challenges. None of them seem all that insurmountable to me, though perhaps difficult to manage at scale. Full vacuum pressure is about 14 psi, very easy to design for, at least in terms of stress. The bigger issue is potential cabin leakage. There are ways to deal with that from a safety perspective, but it does add one more issue. I agree maintaining a near vacuum state seems ridiculously expensive both in terms of maintenance and expelling air. (Though maintaining all infrastructure is expensive) Expansion and contraction of pipes has to happen at the ends because it is one solid piece of metal (hence expansion loops) clearly a hyperloop system will not be one solid piece for obvious reasons, nor probably as conductive of material. You would likely have to have a gasket between each section of "pipe" in order to get a seal, this would allow for some expansion and contraction, and could be designed to allow for more if need be. I don't see a problem with intermediate stops... I assume you would have locks in the loading section. Once the pod (or 200 ft long train) enters the station, you close the locks and open the door to travelers, they enter, close door to travelers, pump out of lock section, open locks, resume travel. Honestly, I think the bigger problems are economic and not engineering (not that the two aren't related). Getting a hyperloop train/pod that functions seems very manageable, (if still very difficult!) being able to build and operate one at a cost that the market will tolerate sounds like the truly difficult hurdle. Problems you didn't mention: requiring more land to build, greater impact on environment/neighborhoods if not buried/elevated, MUCH higher initial investment, higher maintenance costs, needing straighter routes to reach higher speeds. I don't see hyperloop happening at any level of scale until there is a paradigm shifting breakthrough in tunneling technology allowing us to tunnel at far cheaper costs than we can now. That said, I rarely think money is wasted on R&D, and I think there's a good chance hyperloop could find a niche in the transportation sphere in the next 50-100 years, even if it doesn't find its way to widespread adoption.
June 16, 20213 yr 37 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: - Expansion / contraction of metal. If you ever go on a brewery tour, take a look at the pipes. Any that carry beer will have these strange 90 bends in otherwise straight pipes. Looks like: __|¯¯|__ . This is done because sometimes hot cleaning liquid goes through the pipe, and sometimes cold liquid. If the pipe was simply straight, the contraction of the pipe from cold would break the seal at one end. So they put the little double bend in to enable some give and allow it to expand and contract without breaking seals (which are pretty important for maintaining a vacuum, on our hyperloop comparison). These are for pipes that are 10 to 20 feet long. The hyperloop is a pipe hundreds of miles long. Each end would have to allow for a massive repositioning of the end of the tube. I have yet to read anything even suggesting a solution to this problem. (OK, I did hear someone suggest putting it underground, but that would introduce another bunch of technical and safety challenges.). There is a very easy way to see how expansion and contraction affects infrastructure. Look at utility lines. How often does one see the reverse loops in the lines? Quite frequently. It allows the line to expand and contract for heat and cold. If those loops did not exist, the lines would break. To put the hyperloop underground to minimize the expansion and contraction would cause the cost of it to skyrocket. The "Big Dig" in Boston cost way, way more than that project was ever projected. One thing is hardly ever questioned concerns the hyperloop capacity. The website claims that 164,000 passengers can be carried a day or 82,000 in each direction. Capsules carrying between 28 and 40 passengers would have to depart every 30 to 45 seconds around the clock to meet that total. For whatever reason one of those capsules comes to a complete stop, how quickly will it take for the following capsules come to a stop while travelling at around 700 mph? Will anybody want to be in the stopped capsule or one of the other ones that will be right behind it?
June 16, 20213 yr Plenty of smart people have debunked the idea of a hyperloop - or, at the very least, have raised serious doubts about the practicality of operating a hyperloop. Again, the idea of a hyperloop - transporting people (or goods) in a vacuum tube - is not new and has been an idea for well over a century. If you are interested in some of the hurdles faced from an engineering standpoint, I'd suggest thunderf00t or "Well there's your problem" on YouTube. Edited June 16, 20213 yr by DarkandStormy Very Stable Genius
June 16, 20213 yr 14 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: The thing that is most frustrating about Hyperloop is that it distracts from actual proven technologies. A Boston-NYC-DC HSR would be paid for in less than ten years by its operating profit. Same with NYC-Pitt-CLE-Chicago. This is NOT something that would have to be subsidized. The Paris - Lyon line was paid for in less than ten years by operating profit. This is completely ignoring the tremendous economic and positive environmental impact of the projects. But hyperloop is the latest in a long series of unproven technology that distracts from investment in the proven technology of HSR. If it wasn't for that distraction, I wouldn't be nearly so irritated by it. It's also frustrating that people are dumping billions into developing hyperloop when they could be investing in HSR that actually has standalone ROI. Hey Dan Gilbert - your property investments in Cleveland and Detroit would be worth a LOT more if you connected the two to each other and to Chicago via HSR. Downtown property values would go up considerably. @KJP nailed it a while back - if hyperloop ever actually becomes a proven technology, I will fully support spending public money on it as a part of the transit system. Until then, I wish people would ignore it. For emphasis -- nailed it. If DARPA or some other national research outfit wants to invest in studying hyperloop feasibility, by all means, go for it. But at this point it's still a research project and is a completely unnecessary distraction for NOACA to be giving it any more thought.
June 16, 20213 yr 19 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: Plenty of smart people have debunked the idea of a hyperloop - or, at the very least, have raised serious doubts about the practicality of operating a hyperloop. Again, the idea of a hyperloop - transporting people (or goods) in a vacuum tube - is not new and has been an idea for well over a century. If you are interested in some of the hurdles faced from an engineering standpoint, I'd suggest thunderf00t or "Well there's your problem" on YouTube. You're confidence is amusing, here are some quotes from "plenty of smart people" around the turn of last century about the possibility of heavier than air flight. https://www.xaprb.com/blog/flight-is-impossible/ The problem is that it is incredibly easy to say that something that has never been done before can't be done. To say that a problem that hasn't been solved can't be solved. How many smart people gave up on flying without even trying, because it was "impossible?" I just hope today's smart people and engineers don't listen to the naysayers and try to do the impossible. Edited June 16, 20213 yr by Ethan Sp
June 16, 20213 yr Bugs and birds can fly. It's actually not that hard. It required engines to reach a specific power-to-weight ratio then it happened easily.
June 16, 20213 yr 15 minutes ago, Ethan said: You're confidence is amusing, here are some quotes from "plenty of smart people" around the turn of last century about the possibility of heavier than air flight. https://www.xaprb.com/blog/flight-is-impossible/ The problem is that it is incredibly easy to say that something that has never been done before can't be done. To say that a problem that hasn't been solved can't be solved. How many smart people gave up on flying without even trying, because it was "impossible?" I just hope today's smart people and engineers don't listen to the naysayers and try to do the impossible. Do you understand that a single hole about the size of a dime in a miles long tube essentially derails the entire point of traveling in the hyperloop? Or are you just whatabouting to something else? Very Stable Genius
June 16, 20213 yr 15 minutes ago, Ethan said: You're confidence is amusing, here are some quotes from "plenty of smart people" around the turn of last century about the possibility of heavier than air flight. https://www.xaprb.com/blog/flight-is-impossible/ The problem is that it is incredibly easy to say that something that has never been done before can't be done. To say that a problem that hasn't been solved can't be solved. How many smart people gave up on flying without even trying, because it was "impossible?" I just hope today's smart people and engineers don't listen to the naysayers and try to do the impossible. IMO the problem with the Hyperloop isn't that it *can't* eventually be done. It's that people are underestimating how long it will take to be operational, underestimating the costs to do so, and overestimating the benefits. When flying first became a thing, it was revolutionary because it meant you could get places over 5 times faster than any mode of travel available to the masses. Therefore, the incredible amount of time and money needed to perfect air travel paid off because of the huge benefit. Now that there is high speed rail that can already go half the speed of the *hypothetical maximum* speed of Hyperloop, and airplanes that already go just as fast, the impact won't be as big, and there isn't as much incentive to dump as much time and money into making the technology work as there was for flying.
June 16, 20213 yr 31 minutes ago, GCrites80s said: It's actually not that hard Try telling that to someone in 1900. 🤣 19 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: Do you understand that a single hole about the size of a dime in a miles long tube essentially derails the entire point of traveling in the hyperloop? This actually isn't true... I assume that any system like hyperloop would use some system of continuous evacuation of air to compensate for leaks. This is common safety practice in gas cabinets that store toxic gases. You just have to evacuate air at a rate equal to the leak rate to maintain vacuum. Having a perfect vacuum seal over several miles is of course unrealistic, and no serious engineer would consider it. You would also monitor the vacuum level, and have negative feedback control to hold it. Once again, I'm an engineer, I've literally designed a vacuum system in the past, though it isn't my area of expertise. Edit: also, a dime sized hole is huge! That isn't a leak, that's a bullet hole! not saying it can't happen, just that a leak of that size would fall under emergency repairs, not routine operation. Edited June 16, 20213 yr by Ethan Add
June 16, 20213 yr 40 minutes ago, Ethan said: Edit: also, a dime sized hole is huge! That isn't a leak, that's a bullet hole! not saying it can't happen, just that a leak of that size would fall under emergency repairs, not routine operation. You just reminded me....the more I think about it the more I'm absolutely certain that people will be shooting at this thing.
June 16, 20213 yr 59 minutes ago, Ethan said: Edit: also, a dime sized hole is huge! That isn't a leak, that's a bullet hole! not saying it can't happen, just that a leak of that size would fall under emergency repairs, not routine operation. Is this supposed to be a design feature? One bullet-sized hole would derail the whole thing? And we're talking supposedly miles upon miles of a connected tube? Ok. I'm not saying a hyperloop will never happen. I'm saying this isn't anything new. It's been discussed for over 100 years with very little progress made. Plenty of people and companies are throwing money at it but even prototype trials haven't yielded much in the way of results. Anyway, here's 90+ minutes on similar concepts if you have the time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRVy31lTlQ Very Stable Genius
June 16, 20213 yr 5 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: Is this supposed to be a design feature? One bullet-sized hole would derail the whole thing? And we're talking supposedly miles upon miles of a connected tube? Ok. I'm not saying a hyperloop will never happen. I'm saying this isn't anything new. It's been discussed for over 100 years with very little progress made. Plenty of people and companies are throwing money at it but even prototype trials haven't yielded much in the way of results. Anyway, here's 90+ minutes on similar concepts if you have the time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaRVy31lTlQ It wouldn't "derail" anything, see my original comment. It isn't hard to expel as much air as a dime sized orifice subject to 14psi differential pressure can let it, particularly across several pumps. As per my last reply, no one is going to build a miles long system and expect it to be leak free, air will be continuously expelled to account for expected leaks. If is deemed logical in a cost benefit analysis, extra capacity could be held in reserve for larger leaks. If not the vacuum level will drop, and so will the speeds, closer to traditional high speed rail, which is subject to air resistance. I see no reason why anything would "derail." I'll give your video a watch eventually out of a spirit of open mindedness.
July 19, 20213 yr more hyping hyperloops: https://www.the-sun.com/tech/3308608/hyperloop-commuters-cities-minutes-levitation-tech/
August 10, 20213 yr Hyperloop still breathing. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/state/hyperlooptt-ceo-praises-senate-infrastructure-bill-for-including-hyperloop-technology
August 10, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, simplythis said: Hyperloop still breathing. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/state/hyperlooptt-ceo-praises-senate-infrastructure-bill-for-including-hyperloop-technology Such an incredible waste... but a rounding error in waste in federal spending. 🙄 (largest expenditures are for the military and are unauditable)
August 11, 20213 yr $50m/mile for a form of transportation that does not yet exist as proposed. Incredible. Very Stable Genius
November 19, 20213 yr On 11/16/2020 at 1:18 PM, KJP said: Virgin Hyperloop Has Invented The World’s Crappiest High-Speed Rail. Shocking news! In an incredible breakthrough for American mass-transit engineering, the transportation technology company Virgin Hyperloop this past weekend successfully moved two people 500 meters across the barren Las Vegas desert at a top speed of just over 100 mph, setting a new world record for the absolute most pitiful thing anyone not named “Elon Musk” has ever tried to pass off as “high-speed rail.” https://defector.com/virgin-hyperloop-has-invented-the-worlds-crappiest-high-speed-rail/ I'd love to see examples of technology that started 100% usable.... but as someone already mentioned just because it's not commercially usable now does that mean it's destined to fail... here are timelines of some technology we use everyday.... " 1903 Wright Flyer The Wright brothers inaugurated the aerial age with the world's first successful flights of a powered heavier-than-air flying machine at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, on December 17, 1903. The historic first flight of the Wright Flyer lasted 12 seconds, traveling 36 m (120 ft), with Orville piloting. The best flight of the four flights that day, with Wilbur at the controls, covered 255.6 m (852 ft) in 59 seconds. Highlighted in this image is the engine of the 1903 Wright Flyer" https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/1903-wright-flyer/nasm_A19610048000 history of a pencil.... who would ever want to read light blue markings on papyrus... https://pencils.com/pages/the-history-of-the-pencil history of rockets.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_rocket_and_missile_technology Edited November 19, 20213 yr by lockdog
November 19, 20213 yr Just building basic passenger rail in this state would be a technological and socioeconomic breakthrough at this point. At least it's a proven technology. Who needs the hyperloop for that?
November 19, 20213 yr Even if a technology or science does not work you should never stop striving.... Science and serendipity.... "A few examples are the discovery of penicillin, heparin, Dramamine, X-rays, the Gram staining technique, the pancreas's role in diabetes, and the anesthetic effects of ether and nitrous oxide. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com › ... PDF Serendipity and Scientific Discovery - Wiley Online Library" And I believe you can add Viagra to that.... 🤓 Edited November 19, 20213 yr by lockdog
November 19, 20213 yr http://www.trainhistory.net/railway-history/atmospheric-railway/ The idea of a hyperloop has been around since at least 1799. Very Stable Genius
November 19, 20213 yr 7 minutes ago, NEOBuckeye said: Just building basic passenger rail in this state would be a technological and socioeconomic breakthrough at this point. At least it's a proven technology. Who needs the hyperloop for that? Are the people working on Hyperloop stopping Ohio from building basic passenger rail?
November 19, 20213 yr 2 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: http://www.trainhistory.net/railway-history/atmospheric-railway/ The idea of a hyperloop has been around since at least 1799. I have constantly seen this point in this thread.... Who said the idea had never been thought of before Elon musk..??
November 19, 20213 yr 2 minutes ago, lockdog said: I have constantly seen this point in this thread.... Who said the idea had never been thought of before Elon musk..?? I would have thought 200+ years of striving for a Hyperloop would have been enough time to determine if it's achievable. You noted the Wright Brothers...it didn't take 200 years to go from "first flight" to commercial flying. Very Stable Genius
November 19, 20213 yr 3 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: I would have thought 200+ years of striving for a Hyperloop would have been enough time to determine if it's achievable. You noted the Wright Brothers...it didn't take 200 years to go from "first flight" to commercial flying. And your point is, it's taking too long so let's forget about it.... I cannot argue with how you feel about something.... Edited November 19, 20213 yr by lockdog
November 19, 20213 yr 5 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said: I would have thought 200+ years of striving for a Hyperloop would have been enough time to determine if it's achievable. You noted the Wright Brothers...it didn't take 200 years to go from "first flight" to commercial flying. The first real successful test of Hyperloop technology was about a year ago, so make this point again in a few decades... Unless you want to start the clock when someone first had the idea, in which case heavier than air flight is at a few millennia. Your analogy doesn't make your point.
November 19, 20213 yr 11 minutes ago, lockdog said: And your point is, it's taking too long so let's forget about it.... I cannot argue with how you feel about something.... Great idea bumping this thread out of nowhere so that you can argue with people.
November 19, 20213 yr 37 minutes ago, lockdog said: Are the people working on Hyperloop stopping Ohio from building basic passenger rail? No, but NOACA choosing to spend money on hyperloop hype would mean less money for other transportation improvements. NOACA should not be spending time or money on basic research.
November 19, 20213 yr There are two discussions about Hyperloop - the technology and the application. I do not believe that the technical challenges can be overcome in a commercially viable way, but I do acknowledge that there is some chance these challenges are solved. I think the application discussion is the more important one, and the more obviously answered one. Every discussion of hyper loop that I have seen talks about small capacity pods - between a few people and 20 people. This capacity SUCKS and will NEVER be viable. Period. High Speed Rail has between 50 and 500 times the capacity. The potential speed benefit of hyperloop will never make up for the difference in capacity. And yes, discussions of hyperloop absolutely undermine our efforts to get proper high speed rail, which is proven technology and commercially viable. True HSR doesn’t even require subsidizing! This alone makes it different than ANY other mode of powered transportation. Politicians and government officials use the shiny future object (hyperloop, or any other futuristic transportation technology) as an excuse to not invest in what is already proven to work in many places around the world. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
November 19, 20213 yr I didn't know this was a thread dedicated to antihyperloop.... I support technological advancement.... Which seems to step on some toes.... so I'll leave you to it....
November 19, 20213 yr ^I came to a thread to argue and now I’m upset that people are arguing with me. Look, it hits a nerve because we are missing out on modern, proven technology that would make peoples lives better and has consistently demonstrated positive economic impact. Tax dollars are being spent on this - money that should be spent on proven solutions. And politicians are being distracted by it and using it as an excuse to not invest in high speed rail. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
November 19, 20213 yr 6 minutes ago, lockdog said: I didn't know this was a thread dedicated to antihyperloop.... I support technological advancement.... Which seems to step on some toes.... so I'll leave you to it.... How much of our tax dollars would you allocate toward this? Because the reality is that we are currently struggling with even supporting our existing infrastructure.
November 19, 20213 yr If hyperloop tech were commercially viable, I'd be all in for it. And the fact is, it isn't. Even if it might be so someday, someday is not today. Meanwhile, we have a similar proven technology in HSR that does the job in Japan and Europe. Why not also here in the United States? Why do we let ourselves become so easily distracted by techno-fantasies when practical solutions already exist?
November 19, 20213 yr 5 minutes ago, NEOBuckeye said: If hyperloop tech were commercially viable, I'd be all in for it. And the fact is, it isn't. Even if it might be so someday, someday is not today. Meanwhile, we have a similar proven technology in HSR that does the job in Japan and Europe. Why not also here in the United States? Why do we let ourselves become so easily distracted by techno-fantasies when practical solutions already exist? And China, Korea, Taiwan, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia! When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
Create an account or sign in to comment