So how will this 300-mile tunnel be accessed in case of an accident in the middle?  Are firefighters going to have to walk 150 miles to a disabled pod? 

So how will this 300-mile tunnel be accessed in case of an accident in the middle?  Are firefighters going to have to walk 150 miles to a disabled pod? 

 

Actually, how can it be possible to travel to DC-NY in 29 minutes if it needs to make 2 stops in Baltimore and Philly. I would think this device would need to stop for at least 10 minutes at both locations for transfer pax/bags.

 

I guess there will be an additional "express" tunnel. How would that work? The straightest line from DC-NY is under the Chesapeake and Delaware Bays. That tunnel is going to be pretty deep.

^ Stop trying to make sense of Musk's science fiction with logic and stuff.

A hyperloop tunnel would have to travel basically perfectly straight.  Most people speculate that the minimum turning radius is around 20,000 feet.  What that means is that they can't curve to tunnel around bad rock as do pipelines.  Even the giant new 30+ mile railroad tunnels in Switzerland were deviated in places to avoid complicated rock. 

 

The new Swiss tunnels, along with the Chunnel, have elaborate fire safety measures.  The Chunnel has a center utility tunnel and the Swiss tunnels have several elevators to the mountain tops above. A disabled hyperloop pod would be like a submarine dead at the bottom of the open ocean. 

I'm willing to assume that they'll figure out how to build and get this thing to work point-to-point with a single capsule headed in each direction.  But I have yet to see anyone propose a workable switch track, intermediate station, or high capacity terminal station.  The ones I have seen look clumsy and slow.  The big HSR trains have upwards of 1,000 passengers, if not more than 1,000.  They'd need to be firing 30-passenger pods every minute or two to equal the capacity of HSR.  That leaves virtually no margin for error. 

 

Look at the sheer numbers of passengers the big-time modern rail systems are moving.  Up to 400 freight and passenger trains travel through the Chunnel per day.  It's absolutely comical to think these tubes can compete with that. 

 

The Tokyo-Osaka Shinkansen runs 10- to 15-car trains every FIVE MINUTES. The route carries 30,000 people per hour. Not per day. Per HOUR. There are similar frequencies on the Shanghai-Beijing line. This line is more than 800 miles long, or nearly three times that of Tokyo-Osaka, and it also has similar frequencies during the day. They also run overnight sleeper trains at reduced speeds of 125 mph with trains departing every 15 minutes or so during the evening hours.

 

They're not a different. This is standard in civilized nations. The USA is the different world. And we keep screwing around with the hyperloop du jour that distracts us from catching up.

 

Meanwhile, in China....

 

 

Japan...

 

 

Europe...

 

 

NYC -> DC is roughly 225 miles.  An express hyperloop could do that in 29 minutes if it traveled at ~466 mph.  The "theoretical idea" of the hyperloop is that the pods could travel in excess of 600 mph.  Of course, of all the testing so far no one has been able to top even 100 mph.

 

So I guess if they can ever figure out how to get the dang thing to travel at 600 mph, sure, a half hour commute could be possible.

Back in the 1800s people like this died penniless.

Elon is usually above the fray but he handled Twitter like the Donald today:

 

https://jalopnik.com/heres-a-running-list-of-comments-from-public-agencies-o-1797094244

Musk needs to take it down a few notches.  In ten years all of his ventures might be in ruins. 

Musk needs to take it down a few notches.  In ten years all of his ventures might be in ruins.

 

He can't and won't. The same forces that cause people to experience success like that, cause them to overreach.

 

(Unless he does stuff like this to keep attention off the day to day operations of Tesla and SpaceX)

You're right -- a lot of this might simply be a way to distract the public and stay in the news. 

 

But the big thing that Musk *does* understand is that the truly big money is in monopolies, not direct competition.  The hyperloop represents an opportunity for a private entity to physically own the infrastructure necessary for high-speed intercity travel in a way that doesn't exist with aircraft.  He's not talking about the government building the tube and a variety of operators competing for franchise agreements.  He wants to personally own the whole thing. 

 

If he can devise a way to ship tends of thousands of people between this country's 50 major cities in a way that uses a fraction of the energy and a fraction of the labor that commercial aviation currently uses, then great.  But as many people have noted, the engineering challenges are immense. 

 

The way in which Musk acts like everything is so easy and effortless (build that wall! repeal and replace!) is why he's dangerous.  That's why he has seduced both the nerds and the libertarians. 

 

If he can devise a way to ship tends of thousands of people between this country's 50 major cities in a way that uses a fraction of the energy and a fraction of the labor that commercial aviation currently uses, then great.  But as many people have noted, the engineering challenges are immense. 

 

Also, let me add that the "700mph" is what has everyone's attention, but that is the least interesting or compelling argument for this.  Right now, at least 90 minutes and more like 120 minutes of any intercity trip, be it train or airplane, is spent getting to the station or airport, then dawdling around for a bit.  Then you have to get from the destination station to your final destination. 

 

Vacuum tubes don't change that.  If you spend an hour getting to and then boarding a Muskpod somewhere in DC, then a half hour walking or taking a cab or the subway from a NYC Muskbase to your hotel or friend's apartment or a business meeting, it doesn't matter much if you spent 30 minutes or 90 minutes traveling between those two points.  Your total trip goes from 3 hours to 2 hours.  That's not a very exciting improvement. 

 

Right now the Acella trip between Washington and NYC only averages 60mph with its two stops and brief runs approaching 150mph.  True HSR would average over 100mph with those same stops in Baltimore and Philly.  Does the hyperloop stop in those cities?  Or is there a whole cluster of tubes, like coax cable, heading to a variety of destinations?

 

So many tweets, so little answers. 

Maybe it's a carrot to offer so that state governments let Tesla operate their own dealerships?

Maybe it's a carrot to offer so that state governments let Tesla operate their own dealerships?

\\

 

Interesting.  And also, Solar City can't operate in some states like Ohio. 

5 Reasons to Be Wary of Elon Musk's Hyperloop

 

High-speed vactrains might be the ticket for a Martian colony. As a practical transit investment for Earth, the technology has a long way to go.

 

Read more:

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/07/5-reasons-to-be-wary-of-elon-musks-hyperloop/534387/

 

Looks like the Atlantic finally decided Hyperloop is nowhere near ready for primetime like Musk claims it is.

^That article misses the two biggest problems with the tube, be it above-ground or in it -- first that it needs to be absolutely, perfectly straight.  It can't go left, right, up, or down.  It needs to be more or less as straight as a laser.  It's can't avoid expensive above-ground properties and it can't avoid troublesome rock underground.  Second, not only do they not have the basic tube and propulsion concept working...they don't even have a drawing illustrating how a high-capacity passenger station could work. 

 

Maybe on a completely undeveloped planet like Mars there could be an application, but who cares about Mars?  The place sucks.  We could have gotten there in the 1970s if there was a compelling reason.  It's unlikely we'll have a manned mission there before the 100-year anniversaries of the Apollo missions.  Why?  Because there's not reason to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to send a few people to a planet that completely sucks. 

 

 

Don't think there's an AI or Musk specific thread, but Musk and Zuckerberg are in a war of words over AI.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/25/technology/elon-musk-mark-zuckerberg-ai-artificial-intelligence/index.html

The comments for this video are hilarious:

 

Points out this major problem I hadn't thought of:

 

1. expansion of the steel requires regular expansion joints -- no joints for such a large diameter vacuum tube have ever been created.

2. top of tube will be much hotter in the desert sun, so will expand much more than the bottom.

 

So if this thing is going to work, it really does need to be underground in order to avoid excessive temperature fluctuations. 

 

I did basic calculations comparing the volume of dirt to be removed for a completely underground Hyperloop versus the under-construction California HSR line, which will have approximately 30 miles of 28-foot diameter tunnels split into two major groups -- a 10-mile tunnel between Merced and San Jose and then a series of tunnels totaling 20 miles between Burbank and Palmdale. 

 

The full 350-mile route between LA and SF, if dug at an 11-foot diameter (the dimension being tested in Nevada) will require about double the fill extraction as the HSR tunnels.  A 28-foot diameter bore is about 600 cubic feet per foot but an 11-foot diameter bore is about 95 cubic feet, or about 1/7th.  The rounded figures I came up with were:

 

HSR: about 96 million cubic feet x 2 tracks

Hyperloop: about 175 million cubic feet x 2 tubes

 

That's just for the 11-foot hyperloop.  No telling what the actual working diameter will be.  To ship a standard shipping container, it will need to be more like 16-18 feet. 

 

 

 

http://www.dispatch.com/news/20170804/high-speed-hyperloop-tubes-could-connect-chicago-columbus-and-pittsburgh

 

More on HYPErloop.

 

IMO, they need to get anywhere near 300 mph before going on these tours and touting a product that doesn't yet exist.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hyperloop-one-reveals-10-strongest-133034079.html

 

So this idea of a Chicago-Columbus-Pittsburgh hyperloop route has been floating around for a while.  It was one of originally hundreds of such proposed routes globally.  Recently, Hyperloop One, the company currently testing the potential technology, narrowed down the choices to the top 10 strongest, and the Columbus route has made it to that exclusive group. 

 

While such a route would be years away at best, and funding for it is far from certain, the potential of this cannot be understated.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hyperloop-one-reveals-10-strongest-133034079.html

 

So this idea of a Chicago-Columbus-Pittsburgh hyperloop route has been floating around for a while.  It was one of originally hundreds of such proposed routes globally.  Recently, Hyperloop One, the company currently testing the potential technology, narrowed down the choices to the top 10 strongest, and the Columbus route has made it to that exclusive group. 

 

While such a route would be years away at best, and funding for it is far from certain, the potential of this cannot be understated.

 

This is an entertaining article and shows the flaws in the initial planning already. Toronto-Montreal, Dallas-Houston and Bengaluru-Mumbai make perfect sense. How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS? Why do I need to travel 700mph from a tiny city in Wyoming to a small city in Southern Colorado? It makes no sense and tells me omething is already amiss.

How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS?

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

How in the hell is Cheyenne-Pueblo getting priority over LA-SF or NY-DC/NY-BOS?

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

Right, there's no market for Cheyenne-Pueblo which is why it's a really bad idea. Cheyenne is the size of Mansfield. I wonder how much air service there is between Denver-Pueblo or Denver-Cheyenne? And of those flights that do exist how many people stay in Denver or fly on to another destination? I bet it's a very low number that stays in the Denver metro. This screams low demand.

 

There are 100+ better US city pairs than this Front Range tube.

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

I don't see Hyperloop ever being used for passengers. I do see it as a possibility for high-priority, time-sensitive freight between high-volume distribution centers.

 

BTW, California isn't just planning high-speed rail. The Central Valley portion (130 miles) is under construction and the electrification of CalTrain which HSR will use between San Jose and San Francisco is funded.

 

Remember that these corridors are coming out of a global challenge. Routes that may be ideal may not have been submitted and/or may not be supported by public or private entities in the region. LA-SF was the first corridor suggested by Elon Musk, but California's regulatory environment and existing high speed rail planning mean that may not be the best place to start off with Hyperloop.

 

I don't see Hyperloop ever being used for passengers. I do see it as a possibility for high-priority, time-sensitive freight between high-volume distribution centers.

 

BTW, California isn't just planning high-speed rail. The Central Valley portion (130 miles) is under construction and the electrification of CalTrain which HSR will use between San Jose and San Francisco is funded.

 

But this is a plan to transport passengers, no?

But this is a plan to transport passengers, no?

 

Yes. That is the plan.

Cheyenne – Denver – Puelbo (360 miles)

 

LOL why?

Cheyenne Denver Puelbo (360 miles)

 

LOL why?

 

If it's because Denver is so recently trendy and techy, that's a terrible reason. I agree with Ken: Find practical uses or this is just a novelty piece of transportation of our era.

By 2020 every manufacturer is going to have good electric cars.  That's when the Musk business empire starts collapsing and we don't have to hear from this clown anymore.

By 2020 every manufacturer is going to have good electric cars.  That's when the Musk business empire starts collapsing and we don't have to hear from this clown anymore.

 

The words of someone who has never driven a Model S.  Truly a work of art and engineering brilliance!

I don't think there are very many people who have a poor opinion of Tesla's cars. It's all the other stuff involving the company and Musk's minigame side quests.

I don't think there are very many people who have a poor opinion of Tesla's cars. It's all the other stuff involving the company and Musk's minigame side quests.

 

Actually I was reading Car & Driver the other day waiting on a haircut and they had a chart showing the ratio of recalls to vehicles produced. Not surprisingly Tesla had the top mark but surprisingly Kia-Hyundai was very, very close to Tesla. What was impressive about Kia is they produce about 10x the amount of vehicles than Tesla and outdid Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Audi, Volvo, etc. It shows you don't have to drop a ton of cash for a high quality vehicle these days. Tesla folks needs to keep this in mind if they want to be a major player in car production.

 

Anyway, back to the Hyperloop to Cheyenne.  :-D :-D

When Hyundai first entered the US market their products were not very reliable and were known to be cheap and inferior.  I think they have made huge strides since then while the usual stalwarts of quality (Honda and Toyota) have rested on their laurels.  I've seen it written somewhere that Hyundai is the "new Honda.  I think there might be some truth to that.

Didn't Musk come up with the concept for the Hyperloop but isn't actively involved with Hyperloop One?  I can't keep track with Tesla, Solar City, Spacex / Mars Mission, Boring Company (tunnels), AI, etc.

Didn't Musk come up with the concept for the Hyperloop but isn't actively involved with Hyperloop One?  I can't keep track with Tesla, Solar City, Spacex / Mars Mission, Boring Company (tunnels), AI, etc.

 

You're right...Musk is not involved. He plugs news though.

It just seems like a scam by which he gets tons of free labor from college engineering departments. 

 

The reason why they were only able to test 3 vehicles a few months ago was because it takes so long to pressurize and then decompress the damn tube. 

When Hyundai first entered the US market their products were not very reliable and were known to be cheap and inferior.  I think they have made huge strides since then while the usual stalwarts of quality (Honda and Toyota) have rested on their laurels.  I've seen it written somewhere that Hyundai is the "new Honda.  I think there might be some truth to that.

 

I think Kia/Hyundai were the first brands to offer the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty that is standard on many new models today.  That was somewhat eye-catching when they first laid down that marker (which of course was part of the point).

Dude working on the feasibility study for Columbus sez: "The half-hour-to-Chicago scenario is more PR than anything, in my opinion."  Says the hyperloop might be more practical operating between speeds of 300-400mph because of the excessive TURNING RADIUS ISSUE that I brought up many posts ago.  The also claim that they want to have 3 operating systems by 2021.  They're going to be lucky to have 3 test runs of anything remotely practical by 2021. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/19/29-minutes-to-chicago-via-hyperloop-not-so-fast.html?ana=fbk

 

 

 

 

Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

Dude working on the feasibility study for Columbus sez: "The half-hour-to-Chicago scenario is more PR than anything, in my opinion."  Says the hyperloop might be more practical operating between speeds of 300-400mph because of the excessive TURNING RADIUS ISSUE that I brought up many posts ago.  The also claim that they want to have 3 operating systems by 2021.  They're going to be lucky to have 3 test runs of anything remotely practical by 2021. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/19/29-minutes-to-chicago-via-hyperloop-not-so-fast.html?ana=fbk

 

 

Interesting thing is, he's not even working on the feasibility study. Subsequent article says Battelle hopes to work on such a study.

Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

It's all going to happen magically, like an app. 

Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

When Musk offers an idea, one does not simply discuss the practicality of said idea.

^California HSR has resorted to the motto "it's happening".  It appears that most of the state is still completely unaware that 100+ miles of "packet 1" are very much under construction and "packet 2" is in pre-construction (land acquisition, test borings, etc.). 

 

I am baffled as to why the hyperloop idea has so entranced people. 

Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

It's all going to happen magically, like an app. 

 

 

When you wish upon a byte...

Perhaps I've missed this, but what's the projected fare, maximum passenger capacity per day, operating/maintenance cost per passenger and projected start-up  capital cost?

 

Fantasy ideas don't have real data to back them. 

^California HSR has resorted to the motto "it's happening".  It appears that most of the state is still completely unaware that 100+ miles of "packet 1" are very much under construction and "packet 2" is in pre-construction (land acquisition, test borings, etc.). 

 

I am baffled as to why the hyperloop idea has so entranced people. 

 

The average person will walk past something that's under construction and not stop and ask any questions about what's being built. When the first phase of California's HSR opens, a bunch of people are going to be like, "oh, that's what that is?"

 

I did drive past a bunch of the HSR construction in Fresno a few weeks ago. South of the city, the piers that will support elevated track are being built. A bunch of road/highway bridges are also being rebuilt as part of the project.

I periodically watch the videos produced by the high speed rail authority.  They do nice videos every 3-4 months showing construction updates and none of them have more than 10,000 views in a state with tens of millions of people.  Meanwhile, many hyperloop videos have over 1 million views. 

 

 

 

When you wish upon a byte...

 

This thing is going to go the way of Google Glass. 

 

I really hate the name "hyperloop" for this thing. It just sounds like two unrelated words Musk stuck together in the middle of the night after being jolted awake by a fever dream.

It's neither hyper nor a loop.  Kind of like how Grape Nuts has no grapes or nuts.