Some of you are acting/talking like the hyperloop competes with trains.  Though this is better than Angie Schmitt, who tweeted that it competes with buses.

 

Actually, it competes with planes. Looks like it will end up taking a lot less space than an airport too.  So it can go downtown, or close.

 

Let's say it's feasible, I'm not a CivE or MechE so I can't say that for sure (but betting against Musk seems to be contraindicated), but what does it mean for Cleveland if it happens here first.

 

-We gain an instant reputation as being on the technological cutting edge.

 

-We establish ties with Chicago well in excess of any other city in the region. 

 

 

 

dumbasses. 

 

Is this the direction the forum is going?  If so, can we at least be creative (without getting a time out that is?) 

In the meantime we are spending real dollars to study the feasibility of a fictional mode of transportation.  Angie's point is that $200,000 could be better spent to improve bus systems in cities.  I agree with her on this. 

In the meantime we are spending real dollars to study the feasibility of a fictional mode of transportation.  Angie's point is that $200,000 could be better spent to improve bus systems in cities.  I agree with her on this. 

 

What is $200 grand going to to?  A single diesel bus costs half again that.

Actually, it competes with planes. Looks like it will end up taking a lot less space than an airport too.  So it can go downtown, or close.

 

Well if they build the thing above-ground, it certainly takes up more physical space than airports.  Which is why it has to be completely underground.  Which is reason #97 why it will never be built. 

 

I heard some chatter recently about the cost to bore a continuous tunnel from Washington, DC to NYC.  They estimated something like $20 billion.  yeah if this thing is going be 48" diameter and you'll lay on your back or stomach in the pods maybe they can build it for that price.  If you want to sit upright, be prepared to pay triple. 

 

 

In the meantime we are spending real dollars to study the feasibility of a fictional mode of transportation.  Angie's point is that $200,000 could be better spent to improve bus systems in cities.  I agree with her on this. 

 

What is $200 grand going to to?  A single diesel bus costs half again that.

 

Traffic signal improvements and road improvements for a problem that exists right now.  Or to pay for a study of a fictional mode of transportation. 

Actually, it competes with planes. Looks like it will end up taking a lot less space than an airport too.  So it can go downtown, or close.

 

Well if they build the thing above-ground, it certainly takes up more physical space than airports.  Which is why it has to be completely underground.  Which is reason #97 why it will never be built. 

 

I heard some chatter recently about the cost to bore a continuous tunnel from Washington, DC to NYC.  They estimated something like $20 billion.  yeah if this thing is going be 48" diameter and you'll lay on your back or stomach in the pods maybe they can build it for that price.  If you want to sit upright, be prepared to pay triple.

 

Meanwhile, maglev trains that can travel 300MPH already exist.  But yeah let's look into this fictional mode of transportation instead.

In the meantime we are spending real dollars to study the feasibility of a fictional mode of transportation.  Angie's point is that $200,000 could be better spent to improve bus systems in cities.  I agree with her on this. 

 

What is $200 grand going to to?  A single diesel bus costs half again that.

 

Traffic signal improvements and road improvements for a problem that exists right now.  Or to pay for a study of a fictional mode of transportation. 

 

Again, that cost would be eaten up quickly (largely by bureacracy) and not last long.  Versus a potential game changer.

  Versus a potential game changer.[/color]

 

 

It's never going to exist.  It is physically unfeasible and it's more expensive to build with fewer revenue streams than rail.  This is all just a publicity stunt for Musk Brands. 

I'm sure there will be no beaurocracy or waste in this fictional idea of tunneling under multiple states and jurisdictions.    ::)

dumbasses. 

 

Is this the direction the forum is going?  If so, can we at least be creative (without getting a time out that is?) 

 

I think so.  I got called "f*cking nuts" yesterday for stating that Twinsburg is a suburb of Cleveland.

dumbasses. 

 

Is this the direction the forum is going?  If so, can we at least be creative (without getting a time out that is?) 

 

I think so.  I got called "f*cking nuts" yesterday for stating that Twinsburg is a suburb of Cleveland.

 

Probably by someone from the 'Burg itself LOL.  Contentious bunch.  I'm in the main town discussion group and the mods have their hands full.  (My brother went to Chamberlain as did several of our best friends).

 

But of course it is.  It's also a suburb of Akron.

 

I've called that area (Twinsburg, the Nordonia towns, Richfield, even Hinckley) the "Borderlands" around here before,  because that's pretty much what they are. 

What would the failure modes look like on these things? Would there be a “push pod” traveling at a slower speed that goes out and forces the travel pods forward if the vacuum seal failed in the tube? Would passengers have to wait for it to travel 200 miles to arrive and start pushing? What if more than one pod was stuck in a tube? What do the oxygen systems look like for the pods since they will be traveling through a vaccuum? What would happen if they failed?

What would the failure modes look like on these things? Would there be a “push pod” traveling at a slower speed that goes out and forces the travel pods forward if the vacuum seal failed in the tube? Would passengers have to wait for it to travel 200 miles to arrive and start pushing? What if more than one pod was stuck in a tube? What do the oxygen systems look like for the pods since they will be traveling through a vaccuum? What would happen if they failed?

 

I'm sure they aren't sharing all the technical details with the general public.

^ Fictional ideas don't need details.

Exciting stuff!

So back to Hyperlooptt news...

 

Hyperloop Transportation Technologies, NOACA, announce partners in $1.2 million study of Cleveland-Chicago route

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Hyperloop Transportation Technologies and the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency on Monday announced the names of 18 businesses and nonprofit or academic organizations that have joined their partnership to explore a potential Great Lakes Hyperloop link between Cleveland and Chicago. The list includes: Meggitt Aircraft Braking Systems, Corp., Ohio State University, ZIN Technologies, Ohio Aerospace Institute, Jobs Ohio, America Makes, Oak Ridge National Labs, Ohio Aerospace and Aviation Council, Ohio Aerospace and Aviation Technology Committee, Wright State Research Institute, The Gateway Group, Additive Engineering Solutions, Eureka Ranch, The University of Akron, The University of Akron Research Foundation, University of Cincinnati SpaceX Hyperloop Competition Team, The Greater Akron Chamber, and the City of Akron.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2018/02/hyperloop_transportation_techn.html

 

 

 

^ it's 1.2 million in wasted money not just $200K.  Oy vey,

One of the reasons this Hyperloop company selected Cleveland was the manufacturing knowhow of the region.

Even if Hyperloop does not come to Cleveland, Cleveland companies may get a leg up on competition for fabrication technology of the tube, which is essentially a pipeline

Exciting stuff!

 

I can’t wait to Hyperloop from CLE to AKR.

^ sorry.  we'd have to dig an additional tunnel for that.  how about CLE to CBUS instead?

One of the reasons this Hyperloop company selected Cleveland was the manufacturing knowhow of the region.

Even if Hyperloop does not come to Cleveland, Cleveland companies may get a leg up on competition for fabrication technology of the tube, which is essentially a pipeline

 

Like a water cannon is a squirtgun LOL.

^ sorry.  we'd have to dig an additional tunnel for that.  how about CLE to CBUS instead?

 

Well, ok. Anywhere but Kent.

 

GO ZIPS

^ it's 1.2 million in wasted money not just $200K.  Oy vey,

 

That's all contributors, so perhaps NOACA put up $200,000 that got matched 5-1.

Exciting stuff!

 

Hmmm......bet I can guess where that Sandusky stop is.

One of the reasons this Hyperloop company selected Cleveland was the manufacturing knowhow of the region.

Even if Hyperloop does not come to Cleveland, Cleveland companies may get a leg up on competition for fabrication technology of the tube, which is essentially a pipeline

 

Like a water cannon is a squirtgun LOL.

I’ve done some casual consulting with Hyperloop One.  The best way to fabricate the tube, and the required quality of welding in order to maintain the vacuum, with the stress and fatigue of running a rail system within it, is a technical, logistical and cost challenge

You could take a bunch of high speed rail literature from over the years, put a "hyperloop" logo and diagrams on half of it, and split the materials between two groups.  The tech bros would love the "hyyperloop" stuff and hate the rail stuff, even though it's all the same stuff.  Even after you pull back the curtain, they'd still love the hyperloop and hate rail.   

casual consulting with Hyperloop One.  The best way to fabricate the tube, and the required quality of welding in order to maintain the vacuum, with the stress and fatigue of running a rail system within it, is a technical, logistical and cost challenge

 

Yeah why not just only build the rail system and save a few dozen billion dollars and get all of the passengers you would have otherwise. 

casual consulting with Hyperloop One.  The best way to fabricate the tube, and the required quality of welding in order to maintain the vacuum, with the stress and fatigue of running a rail system within it, is a technical, logistical and cost challenge

 

Yeah why not just only build the rail system and save a few dozen billion dollars and get all of the passengers you would have otherwise.

 

That may be a silver lining, that this is the inevitable conclusion once we see the numbers.

 

I’m getting a lot of texts and emails about the loop from people who normally have no interest in transit. So at least this thing is showing there are desired solutions beyond simply building more lanes of highway.

It’s unclear to me if they’ve established the feasibility of bifurcation of the tube yet. With so many of the technical details (and thus economics) unknown, isn’t drawing lines on maps (outside of the blogosphere) a pointless exercise?

One of the reasons this Hyperloop company selected Cleveland was the manufacturing knowhow of the region.

Even if Hyperloop does not come to Cleveland, Cleveland companies may get a leg up on competition for fabrication technology of the tube, which is essentially a pipeline

 

Like a water cannon is a squirtgun LOL.

I’ve done some casual consulting with Hyperloop One.  The best way to fabricate the tube, and the required quality of welding in order to maintain the vacuum, with the stress and fatigue of running a rail system within it, is a technical, logistical and cost challenge

 

My degree’s in metallurgical engineering so yeah, I know this.  That’s part of why it’s such an exciting concept.  Even if it doesn’t quite come to pass, it’s liable to generate more spinoffs than an icy freeway in the south.

It’s unclear to me if they’ve established the feasibility of bifurcation of the tube yet. With so many of the technical details (and thus economics) unknown, isn’t drawing lines on maps (outside of the blogosphere) a pointless exercise?

 

Also, I recall reading quite awhile ago that Maglev has never taken off because the increased speed does not actually increase capacity because they must leave much larger gaps between trains traveling in the same direction.  What sort of gaps will be required between pods in the hyperloop tube to permit safe operation?  If that space is so vast that they can only shoot one 30-man pod at a time between City A and City B, why are we even having this conversation?  It's possible that the per-hour ridership of the hyperloop is a fraction of the per-hour ridership of HSR?

 

HSR lines are designed for 12-15 trains per hour, peak, per direction.  That's like 10,000+ people per hour in each direction.  Not sure how the hyperloop possibly competes with this.  They would need to fire off 300+ 30-man pods per hour per direction to match that capacity.  That's one every 10~ seconds. 

 

 

Some of you are acting/talking like the hyperloop competes with trains.  Though this is better than Angie Schmitt, who tweeted that it competes with buses.

 

The point Angie made is that the hyperloop competes against buses when it comes to political attention. She wasn't talking about riders. It's easier for Midwestern politicians to say they support bold new ideas like the hyperloop than to actually implement transit solutions that already exist today. Columbus is doing it with their "smart cities" initiatives, and Cincinnati is doing it with our Uber-Metro partnership. We could start making improvements to our transit systems tomorrow, implementing ideas that have already been proven to work in hundreds of cities around the world. But instead we don't do anything, and hope that hyperloops and self-driving cars and Big Data will solve our transportation problems.

Exciting stuff!

 

Hmmm......bet I can guess where that Sandusky stop is.

 

You'd be able to pre-emptively lose your lunch on the Hyperloop so that you don't have to worry about accidentally puking on someone while riding the Raptor.

https://www.greatlakeshyperloop.com

 

#GreatLakesHyperloop

Some of you are acting/talking like the hyperloop competes with trains.  Though this is better than Angie Schmitt, who tweeted that it competes with buses.

 

The point Angie made is that the hyperloop competes against buses when it comes to political attention. She wasn't talking about riders. It's easier for Midwestern politicians to say they support bold new ideas like the hyperloop than to actually implement transit solutions that already exist today. Columbus is doing it with their "smart cities" initiatives, and Cincinnati is doing it with our Uber-Metro partnership. We could start making improvements to our transit systems tomorrow, implementing ideas that have already been proven to work in hundreds of cities around the world. But instead we don't do anything, and hope that hyperloops and self-driving cars and Big Data will solve our transportation problems.

 

She's wrong, as usual.  The dearth of leadership since White (perhaps even since Voinovich) means that reaching for breakthrough ideas may be what is needed to revitalize the city and region.

Some of you are acting/talking like the hyperloop competes with trains.  Though this is better than Angie Schmitt, who tweeted that it competes with buses.

 

The point Angie made is that the hyperloop competes against buses when it comes to political attention. She wasn't talking about riders. It's easier for Midwestern politicians to say they support bold new ideas like the hyperloop than to actually implement transit solutions that already exist today. Columbus is doing it with their "smart cities" initiatives, and Cincinnati is doing it with our Uber-Metro partnership. We could start making improvements to our transit systems tomorrow, implementing ideas that have already been proven to work in hundreds of cities around the world. But instead we don't do anything, and hope that hyperloops and self-driving cars and Big Data will solve our transportation problems.

 

She's wrong, as usual.  The dearth of leadership since White (perhaps even since Voinovich) means that reaching for breakthrough ideas may be what is needed to revitalize the city and region.

 

I think Cleveland's problem has been that they are always searching for a silver bullet instead of doing proven things.  Angie is spot on this time.

 

I think Cleveland's problem has been that they are always searching for a silver bullet instead of doing proven things.  Angie is spot on this time.

 

I often hear Cleveland leaders say -- why don't you ever lobby us to build an multimodal transportation center or rebuild the existing rail system? I've wanted to reply -- do we really have to encourage you to breath or eat?

Just to sum - if a hypothetical headline said:

 

"High speed rail being explored to connect Chicago and Cleveland"

 

If its Amtrak - good?

If its Hyperloop - bad?

Some of you are acting/talking like the hyperloop competes with trains.  Though this is better than Angie Schmitt, who tweeted that it competes with buses.

 

The point Angie made is that the hyperloop competes against buses when it comes to political attention. She wasn't talking about riders. It's easier for Midwestern politicians to say they support bold new ideas like the hyperloop than to actually implement transit solutions that already exist today. Columbus is doing it with their "smart cities" initiatives, and Cincinnati is doing it with our Uber-Metro partnership. We could start making improvements to our transit systems tomorrow, implementing ideas that have already been proven to work in hundreds of cities around the world. But instead we don't do anything, and hope that hyperloops and self-driving cars and Big Data will solve our transportation problems.

 

She's wrong, as usual.  The dearth of leadership since White (perhaps even since Voinovich) means that reaching for breakthrough ideas may be what is needed to revitalize the city and region.

 

I think Cleveland's problem has been that they are always searching for a silver bullet instead of doing proven things.  Angie is spot on this time.

 

I agree with Erocc here.  What if this is the next big thing in technology and transportation?  I could only imagine the public backlash if Cleveland leaders did nothing and this turned out to be a smashing success for other cities around the country and world.  1.2mil is nothing when compared to RTA's overall needs and budget.  Think big or go home. 

Build a working prototype first, then tell me how great it is. Even maglev had a prototype before the Germans abandoned it.

 

If a revenue service Hyperloop gets built anywhere, I will be shocked. Meanwhile, lots of cool, usable transportation technologies were or are being built to link cities around the world except in Ohio because we keep getting distracted by the next shiny thing. It's one of the reasons why we have nothing except damning reports saying how isolated and disconnected we are from opportunities and each other.

Just to sum - if a hypothetical headline said:

 

"High speed rail being explored to connect Chicago and Cleveland"

 

If its Amtrak - good?

If its Hyperloop - bad?

 

Correct, because if it was an Amtrak proposal it would be sensible, by a proven operator, based on already existing technology, and about 1,000 times more likely to actually come to fruition.

 

 

I agree with Erocc here.  What if this is the next big thing in technology and transportation?  I could only imagine the public backlash if Cleveland leaders did nothing and this turned out to be a smashing success for other cities around the country and world.  1.2mil is nothing when compared to RTA's overall needs and budget.  Think big or go home. 

 

 

If it's such a great idea, it will be built everywhere eventually.  But because it is a bad idea, it won't be built anywhere, ever.   

 

 

 

 

I mean, cars had to go away from vacuum lines on the engines and HVAC systems years ago since they were too unreliable. And that was only 15psi max with simple rubber hoses.

Build a working prototype first, then tell me how great it is. Even maglev had a prototype before the Germans abandoned it.

 

If a revenue service Hyperloop gets built anywhere, I will be shocked. Meanwhile, lots of cool, usable transportation technologies were or are being built to link cities around the world except in Ohio because we keep getting distracted by the next shiny thing. It's one of the reasons why we have nothing except damning reports saying how isolated and disconnected we are from opportunities and each other.

 

I hear a lot about how Cleveland gets distracted by the next shiny idea, but I don't recall anything daring, forward thinking or shiny that has been tried in the last twenty years.  Can anyone fill me in on our previous distracting projects?

 

 

I agree with Erocc here.  What if this is the next big thing in technology and transportation?  I could only imagine the public backlash if Cleveland leaders did nothing and this turned out to be a smashing success for other cities around the country and world.  1.2mil is nothing when compared to RTA's overall needs and budget.  Think big or go home. 

 

If it's such a great idea, it will be built everywhere eventually.  But because it is a bad idea, it won't be built anywhere, ever.   

 

 

I'll wait until the feasibility study comes out before believing some random internet dude with an axe to grind..

Give me the $1.2 million for the feasibility study. 

I'll wait until the feasibility study comes out before believing some random internet dude with an axe to grind..

 

 

The feasibility study is going to indicate that it's unfeasible.  Because it is not feasible.  Because it's unfeasible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hear a lot about how Cleveland gets distracted by the next shiny idea, but I don't recall anything daring, forward thinking or shiny that has been tried in the last twenty years.  Can anyone fill me in on our previous distracting projects?

 

Not so much Cleveland but Ohio in general has been distracted by:

 

+ Columbus Smart initiative in which business community backers pledged to use this unproven, car-dependant technology to "leapfrog light rail." Note the similar language in the last, oldest bulleted item from 30 years ago.

 

+ Tubular Rail was the latest cockamamie train idea that lacked a real-world prototype. It appeared out of nowhere during the 3C project and disappeared just as fast when the 3C project was killed.

 

+ US Railcar's proposed an excessively high-level self-propelled rail car that was not in production. It was pushed by a successful businessman who was a close friend of the ODOT director during the 3C project. It wasn't the worst idea in the world but sometimes Ohio acts like it has no awareness whatsoever of any existing, off the shelf rail technologies that would reduce the amount of bugs and delays and cost overruns while introducing a new rail service like 3C. Instead Ohio's leaders like to make things harder on themselves because they doesn't know any better.

 

+ The Ohio Railroad Organization's $750 million high-speed test track between Springfield and Columbus that was proposed as ODOT was advancing its first Access Ohio plan for developing an introductory level of passenger rail service on 3C and C-P corridors.

 

+ There is always a maglev proposal lurking, especially one involving Pittsburgh, it's airport, and sometimes Cleveland or Philadelphia. Carnegie-Mellon was a hotbed of maglev research in the 1990s and got millions in federal research money while we couldn't even get a like amount to restore the Ravenna Connection track to restore the "missing mile" between Cleveland and Youngstown and route Cleveland-Pittsburgh Amtrak trains via the more populous Youngstown route.  We were often told steel wheel on steel rail technology was old fashioned while maglev was the future.  Maglev is still the technology of the future and may always be due to its cost-ineffectiveness over conventional rail technology.

 

+  And one of my "favorites" was the era in which Ohio Rep. Art Wilkowski pledged to build high speed trains "on the ashes of Amtrak."  A statewide sales tax was put on the ballot to build the high speed rail system but was defeated by a 2 to 1 margin.  Even though we proposed a much more cost effective option in the succeeding years, that failed vote at the ballot was always thrown at us as a reason not to do anything at all.

 

And so the only ashes became Ohio's once dominant rail industry, its manufacturers, and its jobs. So while the likes of Columbus Castings and American Foundries closed up shop in Ohio, rail manufacturers opened in places like New York state and California to build new trains for Amtrak and Florida's Brightline service.

Cleveland leaders got what they wanted — national buzz about Cleveland....

 

Cleveland Finishes Construction On New Elevated Sewer System

 

“We’re confident these towering troughs of cascading brown sludge moving through the night sky high above the Cuyahoga River—and often discharging directly into Lake Erie—will become as iconic as the Gateway Arch or the Golden Gate Bridge.” - Mayor Jackson

 

https://www.theonion.com/cleveland-finishes-construction-on-new-elevated-sewer-s-1823332951/amp?__twitter_impression=true