March 13Mar 13 14 hours ago, DEPACincy said: So it feels like this take is coming from a place of "I made up a guy to be mad at" more than it is coming from reality. Always
March 20Mar 20 Those homes aren't my cup of tea but I never understood the neighborhood outcry over this development. It was a patch of overgrown brush and honeysuckle. These are an improvement. Separately, the stretch of Wasson Rd just past these homes toward Marburg is in desperate need of resurfacing. I have driven on dirt roads that are in better condition.
March 20Mar 20 59 minutes ago, tabasco said: Those homes aren't my cup of tea but I never understood the neighborhood outcry over this development. It was a patch of overgrown brush and honeysuckle. These are an improvement. Separately, the stretch of Wasson Rd just past these homes toward Marburg is in desperate need of resurfacing. I have driven on dirt roads that are in better condition. Small retail that was geared to path users would have been better option. Wasson is scheduled to be resurfaced in 2026 (I think, may be 2025).
March 20Mar 20 12 minutes ago, jag said: Small retail that was geared to path users would have been better option. Wasson is scheduled to be resurfaced in 2026 (I think, may be 2025). Agree to disagree on the retail. The immediate area is already badly over-retailed and there are seemingly always a couple of vacancies in the adjacent plaza. Based on my observation of path users most are on a mission (out for some type of exercise/walk) and not enough are using it to get to a retail destination or to commute. I am skeptical that the ROI could work for a developer. I do think the ila location probably could have made some type of retail/restaurant work as there is a lot more foot traffic in that area. A restaurant with a good outdoor space right on the path that serves decent food and beverage would do really well I think.
March 21Mar 21 22 hours ago, tabasco said: Agree to disagree on the retail. The immediate area is already badly over-retailed and there are seemingly always a couple of vacancies in the adjacent plaza. Based on my observation of path users most are on a mission (out for some type of exercise/walk) and not enough are using it to get to a retail destination or to commute. I am skeptical that the ROI could work for a developer. I do think the ila location probably could have made some type of retail/restaurant work as there is a lot more foot traffic in that area. A restaurant with a good outdoor space right on the path that serves decent food and beverage would do really well I think. retail = restaurant too in my mind.
April 2Apr 2 Cincinnati Mayor Aftab Pureval weighs in on Hyde Park Square development Citing the need for more housing, Mayor Aftab Pureval told the Business Courier he supports a controversial $150 million project that would bring new apartments, a hotel, retail and parking to Hyde Park Square. PLK Communities, NorthPointe Group and the Loring Group have proposed building three new structures, including a boutique hotel with 90 rooms, approximately 125 new apartments with outdoor terraces and a pool, as well as restoration of the historic A L’aise building. The project would be built on the site of two one-story buildings along Erie Avenue, which will be demolished, and a vacant parking lot behind the square. It also would include a new underground garage of up to 350 spaces. “Instead of a surface parking lot, we have an opportunity to create more housing in a neighborhood business district that will benefit the local, small businesses on the square, that will benefit the community as a whole and generally benefit the city because it’s an opportunity to increase the supply of housing,” Pureval said. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/02/mayor-aftab-pureval-hyde-park-square-development.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 5Apr 5 I heard that PLK's proposal will be on the agenda for the Equitable Growth & Housing committee on Tuesday the 22nd.
April 8Apr 8 Vote on $150M Hyde Park Square development scheduled at City Hall Cincinnati City Council could vote on a major, controversial $150 million Hyde Park Square development April 22. Council’s Equitable Growth and Housing Committee is set to meet at 1 p.m. to consider the project. The committee’s membership includes all nine members of council, so the result could preview what the final vote, which could come a day later, will be. PLK Communities, the NorthPointe Group and the Loring Group have proposed a 125-unit apartment building, boutique hotel with up to 90 rooms, as well as the restoration of the historic A L’aise building. The project would be built on the site of two one-story buildings along Erie Avenue, which will be demolished, and a vacant parking lot behind the square. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/08/council-vote-hyde-park-square-development-april.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 8Apr 8 HPNC is hosting a listening session with Albi and Walsh tomorrow night from 6:45 to 8 at the Hyde Park School. They have a form online to pre-register anyone wanting to speak during the meeting.
April 9Apr 9 Townhome development debuts near Hyde Park Square By Lara Schwartz – Staff reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier Apr 9, 2025 2739 Observatory Development LLC is developing a three-townhome project named Observatory Villas at Knox Corner, located at Observatory and Michigan avenues. The homes will be priced at around $2 million each with showings starting April 18. Julie Back with Sibcy Cline Realtors is the listing agent. “It’s a fabulous location with walkability to the square,” Back told me. “Hyde Park Square is a hot spot. People love it for the shops, restaurants, farmers market, you name it. It’s just a special community within Cincinnati.” MORE
April 10Apr 10 I cannot believe these things are trading for close to $2mm. That is a tough, tough location traffic wise. Zero yard. Attached to your neighbors. Wall to wall parking in front of your house every Sunday for the Farmers Market and again for Knox church services. Constant cut through traffic to avoid one of the worst intersections in the city (Observatory & Edwards). Hyde Park school parents illegally parking in front of your house every day school is in session to drop their kids off. 2.5 years of PLK square construction about to disrupt your daily life. I can see these getting bought up by empty nesters looking to simplify only to later realize they made a grave mistake. Why not just buy at the condo across the street or at Michigan Terrace or at 2801 Erie? Or a detached SFH at any other number of locations in Hyde Park if you have 2mm to spend? Yeah but TaX aBaTeMeNt!!!
April 10Apr 10 38 minutes ago, tabasco said: Why not just buy at the condo across the street or at Michigan Terrace or at 2801 Erie? Or a detached SFH at any other number of locations in Hyde Park if you have 2mm to spend? Those options are not regularly available and quickly sell when they do. There is no availability listed for 2801 Erie, Michigan Terrace or 2770 Observatory. Right now I'm seeing a new building nearby for $2 million (not finished getting built), a $3 million new build down the street by the high school that hasn't started construction (pending) and a pre-existing building for $1.15 million that went pending within 2 days of being listed. The other options that are nearby are under $1 mill but they are less than 2k sqft without attached garages, multiple full bathrooms, etc. Meanwhile, one of the units you are criticizing was sold before sent. Additionally, it looks like there is no on-street parking available in front of the units given the size of their driveways, so I don't see how parking conflicts during peak demand will negatively impact them. I also imagine that if the owners work a typical office schedule, which is very unlikely, they'd just backdoor Michigan Avenue via Grandin.
April 15Apr 15 Cincinnati Edition recently aired a segment about the PLK development. The guests for the segment were the 2 lawyers that have been hired by each party. If you've been following along, there likely isn't any new information here. Mayoral candidate Brian Frank, called in asking about traffic safety impacts for the Hyde Park School students. Separately, Civic Cincinnati is hosting an online letter drive for supporters of the project.
April 18Apr 18 Balancing Act The city needs more housing, but many Hyde Park residents (and some council members) oppose this project Cincinnati City Council is hurtling toward one of the most controversial development votes it has faced in the post-pandemic era. Council’s housing committee is expected to vote April 22 on a $150 million project that would bring new apartments, a hotel, retail and parking to Hyde Park Square, a potentially transformative development that is expected to bring new residents and businesses to one of Cincinnati’s most beloved areas. A full council vote could come the next day. But hundreds of Hyde Park residents and devotees don’t see it that way. The development’s large scale could ruin the square, they’ve argued in hundreds of public comments, letters, text messages and phone calls over the past few months. The development team, PLK Communities, NorthPointe Group and the Loring Group, got a major political boost when Mayor Aftab Pureval told the Business Courier in an exclusive interview that he backs the development, citing the need for more housing. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/17/how-will-council-vote-hyde-park-square-apartments.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 20Apr 20 47 minutes ago, tabasco said: https://youtu.be/lr6A9XdJAYc?si=2PSoFdIOoPvkGcWm It should be noted that there are 52 neighborhoods in the city, that means 37 did not align/agree with/support the HP development - at least not with the way they described the issues in their request for support.
April 20Apr 20 If Hyde Park kills this I hope the developers take the project elsewhere and it's a huge success. Hyde Park is just bougie whatever anyway. They can keep it to themselves.
April 21Apr 21 10 hours ago, anusthemenace said: If Hyde Park kills this I hope the developers take the project elsewhere and it's a huge success. Hyde Park is just bougie whatever anyway. They can keep it to themselves. Considering the high cost of acquiring all these parcels, I really doubt PLK would withdraw this project completely. I would think they would value engineer it down into something that's shorter, but thicker, reducing the amount of open space, but with worse shadows.
April 21Apr 21 The people losing their minds over this are pretty disconnected with how reality works. I have seen comments on enquirer or biz courier articles claiming that businesses (outside of the boundary of this development) are wanting to preemptively leave Hyde Park because of this proposal. Edited April 21Apr 21 by wjh
April 21Apr 21 3 hours ago, wjh said: businesses (outside of the boundary of this development) are wanting to preemptively leave Hyde Park because of this proposal. lol. The world we live in. We need this passed just to help break the fever of crazy. Edited April 21Apr 21 by 646empire
April 21Apr 21 This is not a uniquely Hyde Park or uniquely Cincinnati problem, it's nationwide. We have allowed NIMBYs and neighborhood community councils to gain so much leverage that they oppose everything that would change their neighborhood in even the most minor way. If a developer proposes a building that's 1 story higher than existing historic buildings, they claim it will bring pedophiles and human trafficking into their neighborhood. The NIMBYs are truly unhinged. Obviously we shouldn't go back to the time when we completely ignored the will of neighborhood residents and allowed developers to bulldoze anything and build whatever they want, but the pendulum absolutely has to swing back in that direction. Otherwise, we allow our existing cities to stagnate while developers move to greenfield suburbs and red states with no zoning restrictions, and that's where all of the U.S. population growth happens.
April 21Apr 21 55 minutes ago, taestell said: This is not a uniquely Hyde Park or uniquely Cincinnati problem, it's nationwide. We have allowed NIMBYs and neighborhood community councils to gain so much leverage that they oppose everything that would change their neighborhood in even the most minor way. If a developer proposes a building that's 1 story higher than existing historic buildings, they claim it will bring pedophiles and human trafficking into their neighborhood. The NIMBYs are truly unhinged. Obviously we shouldn't go back to the time when we completely ignored the will of neighborhood residents and allowed developers to bulldoze anything and build whatever they want, but the pendulum absolutely has to swing back in that direction. Otherwise, we allow our existing cities to stagnate while developers move to greenfield suburbs and red states with no zoning restrictions, and that's where all of the U.S. population growth happens. Don't loop all community councils in with the HP and the few who aligned with them (15 of 52 is only 29%, hardly a majority like they claim). Some of those are only those to complain all the time, and others are ones who don't know what they don't know. The HP messaging is misleading - there is no precedent being set, there are no processes being bypassed - and too much of the resident feedback contains hateful, racist, and flat out untruthful/ignorant comments. Edited April 21Apr 21 by jag
April 22Apr 22 Just now, Dev said: It passed committee 7-2, with Kearney and Johnson as the only noes. What I would pay to see the meltdown from the Hyde Park residents that showed up lol
April 22Apr 22 47 minutes ago, cblhaus said: What I would pay to see the meltdown from the Hyde Park residents that showed up lol Going forward I hope the residents, and some HPNC members, learn how to communicate better. Some of the messaging was toxic, hateful, barely veiled racist...and they wonder why their opinion not being respected or take seriously. Want to make it easy for others to discredit you/not take you seriously? - react based on emotion/fear - use all inclusive/exclusive words & phrases (all/none, everyone/no one, everybody/nobody, etc.) - publicly insult the opponent - make statement(s), often unfounded, without being able to provide any info to support them. - use subjective words like "character", "charm", "identity", which can mean something different to different people. Need to specify what the words mean to the community, with examples. - use verbs that can be inflammatory, like "ruin" or "destroy", which tends to put people on the defensive. Then do it repeatedly: - original density ordinance - ILA - connected communities - HP Square ...and not apparently learn from that, then it just stacks up against them (there several neighborhoods that are in the same boat). Just my observations from the past several years. 🤷♂️ They have no choice but to work together... Edited April 22Apr 22 by jag
April 23Apr 23 43 minutes ago, jag said: Going forward I hope the residents, and some HPNC members, learn how to communicate better. Some of the messaging was toxic, hateful, barely veiled racist...and they wonder why their opinion not being respected or take seriously. Want to make it easy for others to discredit you/not take you seriously? - react based on emotion/fear - use all inclusive/exclusive words & phrases (all/none, everyone/no one, everybody/nobody, etc.) - publicly insult the opponent - make statement(s), often unfounded, without being able to provide any info to support them. - use subjective words like "character", "charm", "identity", which can mean something different to different people. Need to specify what the words mean to the community, with examples. - use verbs that can be inflammatory, like "ruin" or "destroy", which tends to put people on the defensive. Then do it repeatedly: - original density ordinance - ILA - connected communities - HP Square ...and not apparently learn from that, then it just stacks up against them (there several neighborhoods that are in the same boat). Just my observations from the past several years. 🤷♂️ They have no choice but to work together... This is the second time in a few posts that you have claimed the opposition is racist or has used racist arguments which is a pretty hefty accusation. Care to expand on that at all?
April 23Apr 23 48 minutes ago, jag said: Going forward I hope the residents, and some HPNC members, learn how to communicate better. Some of the messaging was toxic, hateful, barely veiled racist...and they wonder why their opinion not being respected or take seriously. It seems to me that what otherwise would have been a really close 5-4 vote, that could have gone either way, became this large supermajority due to how toxic the rhetoric had gotten. I appreciated how Jeffreys clearly laid out how the alternative option might be the right height people were claiming they wanted but everything else would be the opposite.
April 23Apr 23 Council gives initial approval to Hyde Park Square development After more than five-and-a-half hours of public testimony and debate, overwhelmingly dominated by opponents, Cincinnati City Council’s housing committee voted 7-2 Tuesday to approve a zoning change to allow a $150 million development on Hyde Park Square that will bring new apartments, hotel and parking to move forward. Vice Mayor Jan-Michele Lemon Kearney and Councilman Scotty Johnson voted "no." A final City Council vote could come Wednesday, April 23. Because every council member is on the housing committee, Tuesday's vote likely indicates how the final vote will go. The development team – PLK Communities, NorthPointe Group and the Loring Group – plan 125 new apartments, a hotel with up to 90 rooms, a 350-space parking garage and restoration of the historic A L’aise building. The project would be built on the site of two one-story buildings along Erie Avenue, which would be demolished, and a vacant parking lot behind the square. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/22/city-council-vote-hyde-park-square-apartment-hotel.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 23Apr 23 22 minutes ago, tabasco said: This is the second time in a few posts that you have claimed the opposition is racist or has used racist arguments which is a pretty hefty accusation. Care to expand on that at all? I said some of the feedback, don't twist my words. But enough of the feedback was not helpful and didn't help their credibility. And this is more than HP, includes some of the others who supported them. Do you really think Harris left because his dream job came up in DC?
April 23Apr 23 46 minutes ago, tabasco said: This is the second time in a few posts that you have claimed the opposition is racist or has used racist arguments which is a pretty hefty accusation. Care to expand on that at all? A lot of what has been said by the opposition has been very clearly rooted in racism and classism.
April 23Apr 23 49 minutes ago, jag said: I said some of the feedback, don't twist my words. But enough of the feedback was not helpful and didn't help their credibility. And this is more than HP, includes some of the others who supported them. Do you really think Harris left because his dream job came up in DC? It's fair to criticize the communication of the neighborhood and HPNC. I just cringe at how quickly the race card gets tossed around these days. I was actually really impressed with how organized they were which is why I posted that video they did. I don't endorse their views but respect their right to protest. I haven't seen an anti development effort that was this large and well organized. I have no idea why Harris left. I assume he got a better job? Probably a better topic for the city council thread.
April 23Apr 23 38 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: A lot of what has been said by the opposition has been very clearly rooted in racism and classism. Seriously?? I am sure there is some really stupid stuff in the 1'000 public comments but let's not pretend that this was the common theme of the opposition. We are talking about a boutique hotel and luxury apartments that will go for 3k+ a month How can one even form a classist, racist argument against such a thing unless they are totally unhinged in which case they should be dismissed as the exception and not the rule. Now if we were taking about a CMHA low income housing development then yes I would expect to see some really ugly comments but for this project? Pretty much everyone is pro development on this board but I think it's helpful to look at all sides and not paint the opposition as total dolts.
April 23Apr 23 1 hour ago, Dev said: It seems to me that what otherwise would have been a really close 5-4 vote, that could have gone either way, became this large supermajority due to how toxic the rhetoric had gotten. I agree big time. It’s something I spoke about in regards to the bengals lease people/the public are soooo over the perpetual state of drama especially in this Trump era of constant crazy. Edited April 23Apr 23 by 646empire
April 23Apr 23 1 hour ago, 646empire said: Has it been mentioned what kind of hotel? I do hope it’s polished No too early still. Just that it'll be a boutique hotel of some kind.
April 23Apr 23 11 hours ago, tabasco said: It's fair to criticize the communication of the neighborhood and HPNC. I just cringe at how quickly the race card gets tossed around these days. I was actually really impressed with how organized they were which is why I posted that video they did. I don't endorse their views but respect their right to protest. I haven't seen an anti development effort that was this large and well organized. I have no idea why Harris left. I assume he got a better job? Probably a better topic for the city council thread. I wouldn't say something if I hadn't witnessed it first hand. If what I post is my opinion or an assessment based my experience I specify that. I have a fair amount of experience working at the neighborhood (my neighborhood council) and at the city-wide level, having been involved with the two primary groups who work on behalf of neighborhood/community councils and neighborhood business districts for may years. I know many of the players involved on both sides and levels. This experience goes back to Issue 3 (original density ordinance), the ILA development, and connected communities prior to this development, and as a result I have seen comments in some of the surveys that had been done. I'm also a data scientist (Natural Language Processing) and have decades of experience with text based analytics, so I've observed the online behaviors through all these efforts. I have not seen all the communications that have been done between the residents and various city departments/staff, but have working relationships with many on the city side and their assessment mirrors what I've seen - way too much non productive feedback. In my opinion, if that impresses you, then you either don't understand the issues, are easily impressed, or both. It's easy to rally folks by pushing the emotion & fear buttons, and this all started well before this development (Issue 3, Ila development, connected communities). I've seen many of the same themes/comments repeated in each of those situations. This was a perfect example of where the quality of the feedback >>>> the quantity of feedback. My primary issue with their messaging focuses on two items that they've promoted and used n their efforts to convince other neighborhoods/groups to support them (I got the emails): That the existing development approval process has changed. It hasn't changed from what has been done for decades when a developer requests a zoning change and/or variance(s) to existing code elements (setbacks, height, etc.) Community engagement -> Planning Commission hearing -> housing subcommittee meeting -> city council vote That this situation somehow sets a bad precedent that other neighborhoods need to be aware of (connected communities, UDOD) There is no precedent. UDODs take precedence over any connected communities zoning. A Planned Development is an established zoning district. @Dev can vouch for my level of involvement.
April 23Apr 23 11 hours ago, Dev said: No too early still. Just that it'll be a boutique hotel of some kind. Yes, they mentioned they had two entities interested in building a hotel, that they would be names people know/recognize, but they weren't at liberty to name them yet due to ongoing contract negotiations and they hadn't yet got city council approval to move forward.
April 23Apr 23 I think this is great for Hyde Park. A couple of reasons: 1.) Obviously 1 story buildings in the middle of the block aren't ideal, and with vacant parking lots around it is a lot of waste of space. 2.) More residents. 3.) Structured parking. 4.) A hotel. All this together will give a good boost to the businesses on the square. I understand there will be the construction period to deal with but overall the square needs to keep moving forward and adding more people in the middle will help all the businesses.
April 24Apr 24 As Hyde Park Square project OK’d, residents vow it will cost council members their seats Dianne Rosenberg was one of many who leveled a promise to Cincinnati City Council as it considered and approved a $150 million Hyde Park Square development, one she and hundreds of others who spoke over the past two days wanted council to vote down. “It’s only going to change if this council gets some backbone and stands up to these developers and support your constituency, which are the citizens of this city,” said Rosenberg, a longtime philanthropist and former chairwoman of the Cincinnati Board of Park Commissioners. “I and many others are going to hold you accountable, because it’s in your hands to do so,” she said. ... One resident promised to go door to door. “I personally will make a ballot of who voted for and who voted against. I walk 4 to 5 miles a day, and I’ll put it into every Hyde Park home I can as well as to going to polls and passing it out," said resident Dennis Okin. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/23/hyde-park-vote-cincinnati-city-council.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 24Apr 24 10 hours ago, ColDayMan said: As Hyde Park Square project OK’d, residents vow it will cost council members their seats Dianne Rosenberg was one of many who leveled a promise to Cincinnati City Council as it considered and approved a $150 million Hyde Park Square development, one she and hundreds of others who spoke over the past two days wanted council to vote down. “It’s only going to change if this council gets some backbone and stands up to these developers and support your constituency, which are the citizens of this city,” said Rosenberg, a longtime philanthropist and former chairwoman of the Cincinnati Board of Park Commissioners. “I and many others are going to hold you accountable, because it’s in your hands to do so,” she said. ... One resident promised to go door to door. “I personally will make a ballot of who voted for and who voted against. I walk 4 to 5 miles a day, and I’ll put it into every Hyde Park home I can as well as to going to polls and passing it out," said resident Dennis Okin. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/04/23/hyde-park-vote-cincinnati-city-council.html Edited April 24Apr 24 by tonyt3524
April 24Apr 24 3 hours ago, wjh said: ^^^ Things you say when you only debate with an echo chamber. I’m no fan of the current council, but the entire world’s on fire and these HP folks are acting like they’re being run out of their homes. Can’t wait to book that hotel for a staycation.
April 24Apr 24 Honest question: Do residents of the other 51 neighborhoods care that Hyde Park residents are upset at City Council?
April 24Apr 24 3 minutes ago, taestell said: Honest question: Do residents of the other 51 neighborhoods care that Hyde Park residents are upset at City Council? Yes, that was my other takeaway, do these folks know that people outside of HP also get to vote? And like 99% of these people either do not care about this issue or think building new stuff is probably a good thing. Some of that attitude likely stems from a general attitude of always having personal wealth and very rarely being told no or not getting what they want in life in general. So when they get pushback it is an unusual experience for them. Edited April 24Apr 24 by wjh
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