I think density is great but as an urbanist, I would really worry about how this project looks and feels on the street level along Madison and along the Wasson Way.

Wasson Way grassroots effort began as early as 2011. Cranley started in office in 2013

It's either a 6.5, 7.6, or 8.9 mile trail depending on what source you look at (Facebook, WW website, and City of Cincinnati, respectively)

Let's be careful to not sound like misinformed streetcar opponents.

I think density is great but as an urbanist, I would really worry about how this project looks and feels on the street level along Madison and along the Wasson Way.

 

Of course it depends on the design and site plan... but Madison has many examples of large apartment complexes, with both good and bad designs. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean worse. One of my favorite buildings in Cincinnati is the 7 story apartment building at the corner of Woodburn and Madison. 

The initial segment of the Wasson Trail is only going to be 2,000 feet or something like that.  Cranley needed to get something built -- no matter how impractical -- as a bone to throw to his Hyde Park peers.  We could easily wait 10+ years for the rest of the trail to be built. 

^Maybe they're getting a free parking garage from John Cranley.

 

My first thought too. The mayor's .2 mile bike path is why they like this location? Sounds like something the Mayor asked them to publicize in order to get a deal of some sort. Yes I'm jaded, good luck to them though.

 

 

Don't be surprised if this project is rammed through, ignoring the input of the community.

 

Partner David "Bastos and CIG were among the biggest contributors to Cranley's mayoral campaign."

I think density is great but as an urbanist, I would really worry about how this project looks and feels on the street level along Madison and along the Wasson Way.

 

Of course it depends on the design and site plan... but Madison has many examples of large apartment complexes, with both good and bad designs. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean worse. One of my favorite buildings in Cincinnati is the 7 story apartment building at the corner of Woodburn and Madison. 

 

CIG does not have a good track record of doing good pedestrian oriented frontages. Like with Aqua on the Levee, no real pedestrian level entrance and frontage is the parking garage.

More Hyde Park property purchased for mixed-use development

 

 

A Cincinnati commercial real estate development firm purchased another property in Hyde Park that could become part of a larger mixed-use development along the Wasson Way bike trail.

 

Downtown-based Capital Investment Group Inc. closed on its purchase of 2654 Madison Road, a roughly 2,000-square-foot building, for $675,000. The property, which sits on a little less than 0.2 acres, includes a small parking lot and had been used as an office. Capital Investment Group purchased the property from Allendale Drive Apartments LLC, which had owned the property since October 2013, according to property records.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/10/exclusive-more-hyde-park-property-purchased-for.html

^ By the way, one of the buildings that will be demolished for that project is 2680 Madison Road. Last year, the podcast Startup released an episode about that building and all of the businesses that have been located there over the years. It used to be a sports bar, "Huggs Inn", named after Bob Huggins, who broadcasted a radio show live from the bar every Wednesday.

This was Adams Oldsmobile. A full service Olds dealer. The low point was Huggs.

I think density is great but as an urbanist, I would really worry about how this project looks and feels on the street level along Madison and along the Wasson Way.

 

Of course it depends on the design and site plan... but Madison has many examples of large apartment complexes, with both good and bad designs. Bigger doesn't necessarily mean worse. One of my favorite buildings in Cincinnati is the 7 story apartment building at the corner of Woodburn and Madison. 

 

CIG does not have a good track record of doing good pedestrian oriented frontages. Like with Aqua on the Levee, no real pedestrian level entrance and frontage is the parking garage.

 

That's more Newport's fault than CIG's in my opinion. The main streets surrounding Newport on the Levee are a pedestrian disaster. That block didn't even have sidewalks before, so as bad as it is, it's a huge improvement. Really tragic, because the east row is a great neighborhood and is very walkable.

Plans for the spot where the Larosas is in Hyde Park. https://amp.cincinnati.com/amp/484389002

Lol the part where it says some residents have raised concerns about it being too dense for the neighborhood is ludicrous. It looks like it would be very similar density to the buildings in Hyde Park Square only a few blocks away. I'm impressed at the density of this plan honestly.

Im actually surprised by the location of it, with the strange shape of the parcel. It would be nice to see busken move over their and the old busken site be turned into a more dense development.

The site of the old Pure Oil Station, circa 1960, if I recall correctly.

The line "some residents fear it does not fit the character of the neighborhood" is absurd. It is next to two gas stations and a Jiffy Lube. And is replacing an empty restaurant that literally has exterior parts falling off of it. I hope this does not get held up because of the fear of a few people on baseless claims

Hey, not too bad, would add a lot of density there but would be good IMO, only thing when you look at a rendering like that I always think back to U-Square, hopefully it is better material than that.  Lastly, it could maybe lower rents in the surrounding area but my guess is that it would be snatched up pretty quick.  Hyde Park / Mount Lookout seems like one of the 3 main places new young professionals from out of town go to move.

It’s not like Hyde Park doesn’t already have even bigger apartment complexes already, there’s that 19 story tower behind Withrow. Maybe that building is less scary because it’s surrounded by some nice friendly (useless) “green space”?

Have site plans for any of the proposals been shared? I'm a bit confused by the one rendering in the Enquirer article, because it seems to show a long streetwall along Madison, but I thought they only had control of a few parcels facing Madison. According to the Auditor, these parcels are still owned by other entities: Madison 2662-2676. If the development doesn't include those properties, I don't see how they could build what is shown in the rendering. Maybe, Capital Investment Group has secured purchase options on those properties?

This house on Hyde Park Square is being replaced by what appears to be a small condominium building.  It comes much closer to the sidewalk than the adjacent buildings:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1397488,-84.4442577,3a,48.6y,170.07h,93.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s41VLYiHULwheXeUzLBfa3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Drove by there a few weeks ago. It appears to be an office building

Is there any new information about the development next to rookwood commons?

2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Drove by there a few weeks ago. It appears to be an office building

 

 

It's definitely a condo, I made a post awhile back on the Random Dev. thread but totally forget who is developing it, Terra something. It's on their website.  I think it is 2 condos and a storefront commercial

9 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

This house on Hyde Park Square is being replaced by what appears to be a small condominium building.  It comes much closer to the sidewalk than the adjacent buildings:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1397488,-84.4442577,3a,48.6y,170.07h,93.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s41VLYiHULwheXeUzLBfa3w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

Those buildings are all set way too far back from the sidewalk. It makes me nervous.

^I believe that setback is a relic from the original platting of the square, which was supposed to continue into that block.  A case that reached the Ohio Supreme Court around 1910 blocked extension of the esplanade west of Edwards Ave., according to the original plan. 

 

No doubt a developer has sought to put an apartment/condo midrise similar to Michigan Terrace on the land occupied by 5/3 and the Sibcy Cline office, but fears the pushback such a project would receive.

 

From this angle, you can see how the building line on the south side of the square is consistent, but the new thing going up projects about 10-20 feet closer to the sidewalk than the original buildings:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1398136,-84.444634,3a,75y,95.18h,87.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stRaRs4fCJMonmW8yXKbIrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

 

 

Here’s a link to the project

 

https://www.terrexllc.com/projects/falling-leaves/

The Wasson Way account on Facebook posted that the planned development on Madison (next to the Larosas) fell through, and the property is back on the market. The post was celebrating the demise of the project, and claimed the development didn't work well with the bike trail, and many of the comments were straight from the NIMBY greatest hits compilation like "would YOU want a six story building in your back yard?"  I sure hope this site can be redeveloped with some fairly dense housing. Disappointing that the old developer walked away.

7 minutes ago, edale said:

The Wasson Way account on Facebook posted that the planned development on Madison (next to the Larosas) fell through, and the property is back on the market. The post was celebrating the demise of the project, and claimed the development didn't work well with the bike trail, and many of the comments were straight from the NIMBY greatest hits compilation like "would YOU want a six story building in your back yard?"  I sure hope this site can be redeveloped with some fairly dense housing. Disappointing that the old developer walked away.

They would rather have a derelict building with graffiti over it now. City is just going to let developers walk out of town and never come back... 

That's horrible.  This was one of the developments I was most excited for, to help push other spots along the trail to go with dense developments (specifically the Norwood Depot @ Montgomery Rd), which I'm worried is going to be a wasted prime location for another dense development.

Have a feeling the property will just sit waiting for someone to buy it. I guess they’d rather have some empty crumbling buildings then a new dense development. 

2 hours ago, edale said:

The Wasson Way account on Facebook posted that the planned development on Madison (next to the Larosas) fell through, and the property is back on the market. The post was celebrating the demise of the project, and claimed the development didn't work well with the bike trail, and many of the comments were straight from the NIMBY greatest hits compilation like "would YOU want a six story building in your back yard?"  I sure hope this site can be redeveloped with some fairly dense housing. Disappointing that the old developer walked away.

 

NEW from K-Tel Records: Best of The NIMBYs! Hear all of your favorites such as "No Front Yard For Kids to Play", "It's Too Tall", "Breeds Crime" and "What About the Traffic?" In addition, you'll get hits like "Density Lowers Property Values", "Leave Litter Everywhere", "Our Schools." And who could forget "My Property Taxes"?

New proposal for the site next to rookwood commons.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/04/16/revised-hyde-park-plans-has-fewer-homes-and-hotel/3449862002/

New building off Hyde Park Square looks phenomenal imo. Looks super high quality. 

 

 

Hideous addition^^^

 

Even in disrepair, Dr. Pfeiffer's old HP red brick was far more appropriate.

23 minutes ago, 1400 Sycamore said:

Hideous addition^^^

 

Even in disrepair, Dr. Pfeiffer's old HP red brick was far more appropriate.

Well its a new building, what dont you like about it? I think its really high quality, easy on the eyes, and adds to the size of the square very well. 

Out of scale for the block. Industrial design in a pool of traditional. Looks more like a giant version of an electrical component than a building fitting into a little village square.

If anything, the buildings around it are out of scale, there are multiple 3+ story buildings in the square, so that really is not true.

 

As for the design, I think it will look way better once the balconies/windows are installed, but thats all a subjective thing, so no real point arguing. 

The real reason not to argue is that it is a done deal. Nothing is going to change that. I spent my first 20 years about 500 feet from the old building so I was sorry to see it go.

I'll reserver judgment on the design/quality until I see the windows installed.  They can make or break something like this, but the brickwork is harkening back to the Art Deco apartments in the area and even the corner building that Cock & Bull just vacated, and it looks good.  I don't see anything industrial about it.  It's just a box, and it's honestly not much different from this building that's right on the square https://goo.gl/maps/oqMczfJ8tzAgRJrt7  As for scale, it's the little one-story and barely-two-story buildings between here and Edwards that are the weird ones.  I do think the reduced front setback is a miss though, not from a walkability standpoint, but compositionally to fit with the other buildings on that side of the street.  Of course on the north side of Erie it's all over the place, and if the tiny buildings get redeveloped or replaced, they should be closer to the street like this one so a new rhythm can be established.  

Hot take: Hyde Park is the least impressive, architecturally speaking, of Cincinnati's "rich people neighborhoods". Both of the Walnut Hills, Clifton, and the Avondales have both more interesting estates as well as "middle class homes". Hyde Park for the most part doesn't look much different from Norwood, other than the properties being in better shape.

^Hyde Park was hit by a tornado around 1915 that destroyed some of the original stuff.

 

Also, Hyde Park Square (the esplanade + commercial zoning) was supposed to extend one block further west to Zumstein, but there was a crazy legal case that blocked that plan back in 1910 or 1920.  You can see how the setback for the south side of the square continues toward Zumstein:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hyde+Park+Square/@39.1397562,-84.4443894,360m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b27972339f95:0x37014db4283c1eb8!8m2!3d39.1396048!4d-84.4425126

 

At some point the Sibcy Cline office was built on the north side of that block in such a way to preclude an identical esplanade, and the 5/3 Bank is simply sad.  But just imagine the uproar if someone proposed something like Michigan Terrace to replace Sibcy Cline & 5/3.  

 

@BigDipper 80 That's a bad take, IMO. Maybe true of the area right around the square, but the whole Rookwood neighborhood and Grandin Rd and the streets off of it are impressive as anything else in Cincy, I think. Some of the grandest parts of HP:

This area behind Summit

Rookwood 

Aerial of this part of Rookwood shows some of the homes better than streetview

Handasyde

Grandin

Even over here on Vista has some really great old homes...

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by edale

Eh, I know it’s a matter of personal taste, but I’d take any of the rambling estates on Clifton or Lafayette before any of those houses. I just find the older neighborhoods to have more eclectic and unique homes than the Tudor Revival 1910s-20s stuff you’ll find in HP. Of course, that’s just HP being a product of its time. It’s still a fantastic little neighborhood, and I’d take just about any house there over something in Indian Hill, which has always been a bit of a letdown IMO.

Indian Hill is more about who lives there rather than architecture. They don't want people driving around.

The grandest houses in Cincinnati, architecturally speaking, are pretty evenly distributed between Hyde Park around Grandin, East Walnut Hills just west of O'Bryanville, North Avondale Around Rose Hill and Lenox, and Clifton on Lafayette. The homes on Grandin take the cake in terms of size, though. Indian Hill has a few grand estates scattered about between the McMansions on steroids.

 

If you have a library card, you can browse through old Enquirer issues from the early 1900s that had a weekly lifestyle type page with photos of the nicest new homes in town. I forget what the section was called but can dig it up if anyone cares. 

Hyde Park Square is what really differentiates the neighborhood from Avondale, Westwood, East Walnut Hills, or even Clifton, but if you ask a lot of residents they treat "commercial creep" like some sort of cancer.  

11 hours ago, jjakucyk said:

Hyde Park Square is what really differentiates the neighborhood from Avondale, Westwood, East Walnut Hills, or even Clifton

 

Definitely this. Though I would say HP beats Mt. Lookout easily in fancy residential architecture, if we're pitting the wealthy neighborhoods against each other.

At the end of the day though, outside of Grandin and maybe Observatory and Erie, most of Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout and Oakley look like this:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1363122,-84.4388818,3a,75y,80.57h,82.54t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXRCacHEI4NTpUCS9ahw1sA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXRCacHEI4NTpUCS9ahw1sA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D10.508775%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1413207,-84.4349359,3a,90y,324.68h,84.29t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sCX7xC3b7Y0kHhxQ0zts6FQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DCX7xC3b7Y0kHhxQ0zts6FQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D117.771996%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

 

Don't get me wrong, there are some really great side streets like this one-

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1351933,-84.4242345,3a,75y,321.47h,87.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLFGMloqwurrm7Ut055RPqQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

but by and large I don't find it as interesting as just about any random street in the "central rich areas", like:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1461947,-84.5232584,3a,75y,265.1h,85.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjqdJmzz8wGEm6xxoJpkm0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1246938,-84.4743694,3a,75y,211.65h,86.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYSjr6nRLUvpJFOmYYF5DHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1264004,-84.4765516,3a,75y,109.37h,90.86t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1shpL-ovER1N8s2II7Jqw2gQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DhpL-ovER1N8s2II7Jqw2gQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D90.525734%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1212358,-84.4884099,3a,75y,158.95h,90.34t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz1G0uOQ-tVYUQkhCefQyJw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dz1G0uOQ-tVYUQkhCefQyJw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D0.934729%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

But again, I'm biased toward the unique, rambling, somewhat heavy 19th century architecuture as opposed to the streetcar suburb aesthetic of the east side. Not to say it's "overrated" or anything, just that it doesn't stand out as much as other parts of the city. 

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by BigDipper 80

There are a lot of spots on the west side that look really similar to that, and there are even a few mansions and gaslight streets.  The first difference is that the west side (and college hill) were ravaged by apartment construction through the 1960s, so there are all sorts of odd interruptions to the street wall, and apartments tucked into leftover pieces of land.  But the bigger issue is that the west side neighborhoods aren't organized around neighborhood nodes.  Cheviot is the exception, as the Harrison Ave. strip is Cheviot is a very walkable area with many apartments over commercial storefronts, and Warsaw/Glenway used to be that way in Price Hill, but there is definitely no center esplanade anywhere on the west side that is referred to as a "square", ala Hyde Park, Oakley, or Mt. Lookout.  

 

There are really two types of areas in Hyde Park, the areas where houses around 300k - 500k, and the areas where houses are 500k+.

 

Some of my favorite spots in Hyde Park/Mount Lookout are around the Observatory/Ault Park, and people already mentioned the area around Rookwood Drives:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1377092,-84.4218774,3a,75y,328.91h,88.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sl-u7owKQywOpe0YmgHqL_g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1421173,-84.4270481,3a,75y,219.19h,94.55t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXeaq0q2641b_oJOytFxDdw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXeaq0q2641b_oJOytFxDdw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D122.22488%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1385662,-84.4158941,3a,75y,191.6h,95.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svIps9hXHyAwpnAvwPVhGsg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

Some areas around Mt. Lookout:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1286792,-84.4274601,3a,75y,79.76h,85.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1scOvrfH-MjWiCpiYjR_xZ4w!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DcOvrfH-MjWiCpiYjR_xZ4w%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D221.40048%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1217517,-84.4250336,3a,75y,282.27h,91.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJA_m3xcKSn1624DFML0rsA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DJA_m3xcKSn1624DFML0rsA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D163.88762%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

This rolls into Columbia Tusculum:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1166138,-84.4348369,3a,75y,201.44h,78.62t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_Jgf9duxPYsnT31ciOIf0g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D_Jgf9duxPYsnT31ciOIf0g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D134.91774%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1150182,-84.4336601,3a,75y,138.07h,108.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIsLp6WWvf19q8bfdqa6w5g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DIsLp6WWvf19q8bfdqa6w5g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D200.72905%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1134693,-84.4363674,3a,75y,98.62h,94.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swdLtxdoZ9YQg0cy9eW0jfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

5 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

There are really two types of areas in Hyde Park, the areas where houses around 300k - 500k, and the areas where houses are 500k+.

 

I lived in an apartment on Stettinius for almost 3 years, my wife and I started referring to the 2 Hyde Parks as "Beer Hyde Park" and "Champagne Hyde Park."