February 12, 20223 yr I don’t think it will be demolished anytime soon, unless the County agreed to building on site after demolishing the jail and police station. There is more than enough room on that block (the Justice Center literally takes up a block) for a new tower or even midtown. But with the accounts looking for 15-20 acres downtown, there aren’t too many sites with that much room. I don’t think there would be 15 acres with the jail and police station being torn down. I’m betting this points to The Pit being the chosen location when all is said and done. The County bought what is now The 9 after it sat vacant for 20 years; I think the Justice Center tower at least had a chance of surviving. They could literally tear everything else down though, including the atrium that leaks every time it rains. Anyone who has been over to the police station side of the complex knows that place isn’t in the best shape either.
February 13, 20223 yr On 2/11/2022 at 9:06 PM, dski44 said: What would the existing property be worth on the open market...with and without the current structures? 45 Erieview just sold for $21.5M or $43.50/sf. At that price the 2.3M sf Justice Center would sell for $100M. That includes the jails though, which probably aren't very marketable, so the real number would probably be much lower. SHW recently spent $49.4M on 7 acres of vacant downtown land, or $7M/acre. If demolished, the Justice Center's 4 acre site would sell for $28M. These aren't perfect comparisons, but I think they provide a general ballpark.
February 18, 20223 yr The best place for the new county jail By Ken Prendergast / February 17, 2022 One thing is for certain at this time about the proposed new Cuyahoga County Corrections Center — no one wants it built near them. But there is one location where it could meet the county’s criteria and actually provide some significant community benefits, depending on how it is designed to relate to and connect with its surroundings. MORE https://neo-trans.blog/2022/02/17/the-best-place-for-the-new-county-jail/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 18, 20223 yr ^ That place looks pretty nice. I wouldn't mind living there and besides, its free room and board. Yeah.
February 18, 20223 yr ^ Yes, it does. A jail doesn't need to look like a jail. At least from the outside.
February 18, 20223 yr It seems very wasteful not having the jail connected to the courts. Here we are trying to be "green," but we are going to needlessly transport prisoners back and forth? I know some preliminary preceedings can be done via video, but for most the defendant needs to be present.
February 18, 20223 yr Ken...I think your plan is very well thought out and very desirable. Would like to see something like that happen. However, the Debbie Downer in me believes it has so many moving parts that our little county officials, as well as the other agencies they would have to coordinate with, would have a hard time implement something so rationale but creative, at least in a timely fashion to have something built by 2025. And I am sure there on a number of bone heads on the committee who are not interested in anything more than building a jail for the least amount of money and not transforming a neighborhood.
February 18, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Htsguy said: Ken...I think your plan is very well thought out and very desirable. Would like to see something like that happen. However, the Debbie Downer in me believes it has so many moving parts that our little county officials, as well as the other agencies they would have to coordinate with, would have a hard time implement something so rationale but creative, at least in a timely fashion to have something built by 2025. And I am sure there on a number of bone heads on the committee who are not interested in anything more than building a jail for the least amount of money and not transforming a neighborhood. If nothing is said by people like you, me and other voters plus folks with thoughtful opinions, then the bare minimum is what we'll get. So we all need to speak up with whatever forms of communication are at our disposal. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 18, 20223 yr 15 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: It is one of the handful of sites being considered, correct? Yes "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 30, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 30, 20223 yr ^If they do it right that’s fantastic news! When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
April 5, 20223 yr No one wants the jail built near them. There is going to be opposition everywhere. You can't make everyone happy... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 5, 20223 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: No one wants the jail built near them. There is going to be opposition everywhere. You can't make everyone happy... No doubt there will be people suddenly paying attention to this issue who will argue that a new jail isn't even needed.
April 5, 20223 yr 31 minutes ago, Foraker said: No doubt there will be people suddenly paying attention to this issue who will argue that a new jail isn't even needed. Tell them to volunteer at the existing jail and see what their opinion is after that. @YABO713 has done just that. Care to share your observations? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 5, 20223 yr 26 minutes ago, KJP said: Tell them to volunteer at the existing jail and see what their opinion is after that. @YABO713 has done just that. Care to share your observations? It is the single most disgusting building I've ever been in - and to put things in perspective, I visited a slum in Havana with one toilet per every 40 residents and an open sewer.
April 5, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, YABO713 said: It is the single most disgusting building I've ever been in - and to put things in perspective, I visited a slum in Havana with one toilet per every 40 residents and an open sewer. So if you had to leave a Yelp review, this would be 1 star? 😜
April 5, 20223 yr 7 minutes ago, Cleburger said: So if you had to leave a Yelp review, this would be 1 star? 😜 No rating could register
April 5, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Tell them to volunteer at the existing jail and see what their opinion is after that. @YABO713 has done just that. Care to share your observations? I don't think @Foraker was asserting that a new jail wasn't necessary, I think he was saying that opponents will make that claim, even if its unfounded.
April 6, 20223 yr Seems like if no one wants a new jail located near their homes, this would be the best location. The closest residential properties have freeways, railroad tracks, a river, and numerous industrial properties in between...
April 6, 20223 yr 15 hours ago, PoshSteve said: Seems like if no one wants a new jail located near their homes, this would be the best location. The closest residential properties have freeways, railroad tracks, a river, and numerous industrial properties in between... Alcatraz in Lake Erie, anybody??
April 6, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, YABO713 said: Alcatraz in Lake Erie, anybody?? With a windmill farm on top. The NIMBY bird protectors in Bratenhal will have a stroke.
April 6, 20223 yr 18 hours ago, PoshSteve said: Seems like if no one wants a new jail located near their homes, this would be the best location. The closest residential properties have freeways, railroad tracks, a river, and numerous industrial properties in between... Why are they upset? Isn't there already a correctional facility in that area next to the post office? Edited April 6, 20223 yr by LibertyBlvd
April 6, 20223 yr On the plus side, at least someone will start using the Tri-C Campus District (E. 34th) stop.
April 7, 20223 yr On 4/5/2022 at 9:16 PM, PoshSteve said: Seems like if no one wants a new jail located near their homes, this would be the best location. The closest residential properties have freeways, railroad tracks, a river, and numerous industrial properties in between... Hey now, this is going to have a drastic impact on a primo CLE photo site lol it'll be tough to be obscure up there w a jail. I vote for wind farm Alcatraz (with waterfront line access).
April 7, 20223 yr 17 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Why are they upset? Isn't there already a correctional facility in that area next to the post office? Yes it's the women's pre-release facility. I see no reason why another jail couldn't be located here.
April 7, 20223 yr If they care so much; interested neighbors or the Slavic Village CDC in partnership with City of Cleveland Urban Forestry might do more to support planting some trees on the Eastern flank of I-77. That strip of uncared-for income properties, disinvested small business infrastructure, and junk car storage along E49th is one of the greyest, bleakest, filthiest, worst eyesores in all of NEO. A 🌳🌳🌳🌳🌳🌳 living screen of trees, (or heck even one of those awful concrete sound barriers) along E 49th Street would go a long way toward dissuading each passing commuter from thinking of Slavic Village as a hole, rather than as a cool community worth visiting. Edited April 7, 20223 yr by ExPatClevGuy
April 20, 20223 yr Cuyahoga Councilman proposing dumping jail oversight committee amid differing opinions CLEVELAND, Ohio – Just as the committee overseeing three years of planning for Cuyahoga County’s new jail is preparing to vote on a preferred location, one of the members is asking to reverse course while another has proposed scrapping the ad hoc group altogether. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/cuyahoga-councilman-proposing-dumping-jail-oversight-committee-amid-differing-opinions.html
April 20, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, GISguy said: Cuyahoga Councilman proposing dumping jail oversight committee amid differing opinions CLEVELAND, Ohio – Just as the committee overseeing three years of planning for Cuyahoga County’s new jail is preparing to vote on a preferred location, one of the members is asking to reverse course while another has proposed scrapping the ad hoc group altogether. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/cuyahoga-councilman-proposing-dumping-jail-oversight-committee-amid-differing-opinions.html Reasons why this is bad: 1. This process has already gone on much longer than necessary. 2. The existing facility is unsafe for inmates. 3. The existing jail is a poor use of downtown land. (A downtown courthouse is a different story).
April 20, 20223 yr That transport rd site is a no brainer. Frees up the existing site for more appropriate uses, still keeps the facility in a centralised area close to DT, activates an empty site, situated near a rail line from DT, stop the screwing around please and get it done. Love, Snakebite.
April 20, 20223 yr 5 hours ago, ryanfrazier said: Reasons why this is bad: 1. This process has already gone on much longer than necessary. 2. The existing facility is unsafe for inmates. 3. The existing jail is a poor use of downtown land. (A downtown courthouse is a different story). I wonder if it's plausible to build a new courthouse on the garage behind the old courthouse across the street from the justice center?
April 20, 20223 yr 11 minutes ago, KFM44107 said: I wonder if it's plausible to build a new courthouse on the garage behind the old courthouse across the street from the justice center? I’m pulling for another tower behind Tower City to go with the Fed courthouse and a new Rocket Mortgage tower, and throw in a residential tower or two on the river.
April 20, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, KFM44107 said: I wonder if it's plausible to build a new courthouse on the garage behind the old courthouse across the street from the justice center? The Huntington Park Garage is an old garage (45 years) and was renovated for more than $20 million 5-7 years ago. To my knowledge it was not designed to support anything more than its own weight. It was built during (and for) the Justice Center project. Perhaps it's just guilt by association, but I don't trust the structural capabilities of anything associated with the Justice Center. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 20, 20223 yr 16 hours ago, KJP said: The Huntington Park Garage is an old garage (45 years) and was renovated for more than $20 million 5-7 years ago. To my knowledge it was not designed to support anything more than its own weight. It was building during (and for) the Justice Center project. Perhaps it's just guilt by association, but I don't trust the structural capabilities of anything associated with the Justice Center. Ya. I don't disagree with that sentiment at all. Having been assigned to the justice center before I do think that building is an absolute structural mess. I mean most of the water fountains don't even work. Edited April 21, 20223 yr by KFM44107
April 21, 20223 yr 5 hours ago, marty15 said: I’m pulling for another tower behind Tower City to go with the Fed courthouse and a new Rocket Mortgage tower, and throw in a residential tower or two on the river. You mean something like what @Geowizical pictured- Also - Could a new Justice Center be just to the left or northwest of the Stokes Courthouse? I think it’s a parking lot now.
April 21, 20223 yr 18 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: ^ Agreed. There is no better site. Just do it! While the site may be an ideal location, it is an environmental nightmare that I'm sure the owner would love to pass on to a sucker buyer...if that is the County, watch the site preparation costs skyrocket once they get into that ground. The historical contamination/pollutants continuously find their way into the Kingsbury Run storm culvert and make their way into the Cuyahoga River. Ohio EPA is aware and has been actively looking at this site recently. It will be a very expensive fix.
April 21, 20223 yr ^ Wouldn't the current property owner be responsible for remediation prior to sale?
April 21, 20223 yr 54 minutes ago, scb0525 said: While the site may be an ideal location, it is an environmental nightmare that I'm sure the owner would love to pass on to a sucker buyer...if that is the County, watch the site preparation costs skyrocket once they get into that ground. The historical contamination/pollutants continuously find their way into the Kingsbury Run storm culvert and make their way into the Cuyahoga River. Ohio EPA is aware and has been actively looking at this site recently. It will be a very expensive fix. Not according to county's environmental consultant. If you watch the video, the analysis from multiple onsite wells show the amount of pollutants are the same or less than what was present at Flats East Bank and at Battery Park before those sites were cleaned or engineered to protect those sites' end users. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 21, 20223 yr Just now, KJP said: Not according to county's environmental consultant. If you watch the video, the analysis from multiple onsite wells show the amount of pollutants are the same or less than what was present at Flats East Bank and at Battery Park before those sites were cleaned or engineered to protect those sites' end users. Well, I personally have been onsite in the last year, collected samples myself, and have seen the lab analysis. It's my field of expertise and I would disagree. It wouldn't be the first time costs escalated because of "differing site conditions" from the due diligence. Watch the change orders or use of contingency money after they break ground... And it won't be to protect the site's end-users, it will be to protect the Cuyahoga River from the continuous toxic soup that leaches off that site.
April 21, 20223 yr 19 minutes ago, scb0525 said: Well, I personally have been onsite in the last year, collected samples myself, and have seen the lab analysis. It's my field of expertise and I would disagree. It wouldn't be the first time costs escalated because of "differing site conditions" from the due diligence. Watch the change orders or use of contingency money after they break ground... And it won't be to protect the site's end-users, it will be to protect the Cuyahoga River from the continuous toxic soup that leaches off that site. It sounds like it needs to be cleaned up either way. Isn’t this a good opportunity to do so? When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
April 21, 20223 yr 34 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: It sounds like it needs to be cleaned up either way. Isn’t this a good opportunity to do so? I hope that the amount offered by the county reflects the amount that will go into cleaning up the site/true value of the site.
April 21, 20223 yr I hate to say it, but when industry destroys a piece of land and walks away, it is probably in the best interests of the community to have their government take on the project of rehabilitating that land. Afterall, businesses can always choose to go elsewhere, but Cuyahoga County can't chose to not have that parcel as part of their charge.
April 21, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, X said: I hate to say it, but when industry destroys a piece of land and walks away, it is probably in the best interests of the community to have their government take on the project of rehabilitating that land. Afterall, businesses can always choose to go elsewhere, but Cuyahoga County can't chose to not have that parcel as part of their charge. Exactly. Environmental cleanup was one of the primary reasons I supported the "Opportunity" Corridor project.
April 21, 20223 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/04/cuyahoga-county-moving-forward-with-transport-road-site-as-preferred-location-for-new-county-jail.html
April 23, 20223 yr On 2/18/2022 at 11:58 AM, Cleburger said: It seems very wasteful not having the jail connected to the courts. Here we are trying to be "green," but we are going to needlessly transport prisoners back and forth? I know some preliminary preceedings can be done via video, but for most the defendant needs to be present. I certainly get what you're saying, but hopefully this becomes much less of an issue in the long run. No one knows when the EV revolution will fully come upon us, but if (when?) it does, transporting defendants from jail to Court and back should be pretty low hanging fruit for electric vehicles and/or smart cars. In fact, this is the kind of task that EV's/AV's are made for--short distances (no range anxiety) at set times of day (9-5 M-F) across a large fleet that will have plenty of time to recharge during off-hours. I'm not saying I expect the county Sheriff's office to go "all electric" by, say, 2025 or so. That will be pretty expensive, but I think it will happen eventually. And the county will have purchasing power as a sizeable public entity. And maybe there will be federal/state subsidies to encourage transition. The jail will hopefully have a useful life of 40-50 years or so, so there will be plenty of time to figure out green transportation options as we go forward. Now, I'm far from an expert when it comes to this subject, so I could well be missing something. Maybe the security issues transporting dozens or even hundreds of jailees across town make EV's forever impractical. I'd be happy to stand corrected if there's a huge hole in my logic above. Edited April 23, 20223 yr by Down_with_Ctown
April 23, 20223 yr Speaking of electric, put the courthouse behind Tower City and retro fit a few old Red Line cars into jail cars. Direct link on the Red Line.
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