October 31, 20195 yr 14 hours ago, CleveFan said: Agreed. The infusion of buildings like The Lumen, Hilton, One Cleveland (and even the Beacon) have been critical in modernizing Cleveland’s look and image. Don’t get me wrong - the older, beige-toned buildings include some world-class structures, but I think it’s very cool to move forward with modern buildings that evoke our time in the 21st century. And that doesn’t have to be a ”typical” tower that could be in virtually any big or not-so big city. As to the location of a new Justice Center, I would definitely rather not have it atPublic Square . (It’s likely that it would be the better part of a decade until that project eould rise) That said, given the many years we’ve already waited to complete the 4th side of PS - and the chances of another SHW coming along - a well designed new courthouse tower of 500’ could be very satisfying. But it’s design would have to be a Home run at that centerpiece location. We might get a shiny new glass tower from SHW, we are already getting one in Playhouse Square. I think having the older, beige-toned buildings gives Cleveland a timeless yet modern look that is a unique, non cookie-cutter, look that people gravitate to. To quote my good friend Phil Coulson, SHEILD, "People just might need a little old fashioned". Whatever the outcome, glass or not, it would be nice to have a tower standing over PS
October 31, 20195 yr There is plenty of beige, brown and gray to remind us of Cleveland's past. Let's focus on the city's future with lots of bright, reflective glass to brighten up all of those dark, dreary clouds that float in off of Lake Erie.
October 31, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said: We might get a shiny new glass tower from SHW, we are already getting one in Playhouse Square. I think having the older, beige-toned buildings gives Cleveland a timeless yet modern look that is a unique, non cookie-cutter, look that people gravitate to. To quote my good friend Phil Coulson, SHEILD, "People just might need a little old fashioned". Whatever the outcome, glass or not, it would be nice to have a tower standing over PS I had my buddy's friend from NYC in my car and he said our downtown looked like a soviet style city. He kind of sucked, but he also had a little bit of a point, sure, some brutalist beige is good, but it shouldn't be a defining skyline feature. Not sure glass is the answer either, but developers and the planning board need to add some pzazz to things when presented with such large opportunities. Edited October 31, 20195 yr by GISguy
October 31, 20195 yr When ever I see an all glass building I think it looks like we've catapulted back to the 1980's. Ray-Ban Modernism, baby!
October 31, 20195 yr Besides, won't all-glass buildings just reflect our beige buildings and gray winter skies?? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 31, 20195 yr 9 minutes ago, KJP said: Besides, won't all-glass buildings just reflect our beige buildings and gray winter skies?? not if it's blue a la Vista Tower in Chicago. lol I kid. For those unfamiliar: Edited October 31, 20195 yr by GISguy
October 31, 20195 yr 40 minutes ago, KJP said: Besides, won't all-glass buildings just reflect our beige buildings and gray winter skies?? They should also reflect what little sunshine pierces through the clouds; like today and for the next week.
October 31, 20195 yr 8 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: They should also reflect what little sunshine pierces through the clouds; like today and for the next week. Be careful what you ask for, the county building (E9th side) turns into a solar oven when you walk by it on a hot summer day lol or the Walkie-Talkie building in London literally melting cars (I mean that's okay, but I digress..).
October 31, 20195 yr But these new glass towers will make it warmer downtown for Cleveland’s long winter!
November 1, 20195 yr Can we meet in the middle and settle on green? Just create one of those Singapore-esque style forest skyscrapers. It’ll do swell in the winter!! Or we could make it all evergreens and call it Santa’s Forest!
November 1, 20195 yr 56 minutes ago, Clevecane said: Can we meet in the middle and settle on green? Just create one of those Singapore-esque style forest skyscrapers. It’ll do swell in the winter!! Or we could make it all evergreens and call it Santa’s Forest! you do have a point, we are the forest city afterall lol
November 2, 20195 yr I've often though, what about putting the new Justice Center on Duck Island or Irish Bend?
November 2, 20195 yr What about the spot where the LeBron billboard once was...is that a buildable lot? It would be very close to public transit but a little further from the courts.
November 2, 20195 yr 12 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: Similar to Riker's Island? Lol No more like Central booking. But on land that is not super expensive. Land that can be developed around for business that are central to running a jail and be connective to other areas. A low risk high return development. Move the FBI building from prime lakefront space to this location as well.
November 11, 20195 yr On 11/1/2019 at 10:41 AM, Frmr CLEder said: Similar to Erieview Tower? The green monster. Noooo!
November 11, 20195 yr On 11/2/2019 at 2:48 PM, cfdwarrior said: What about the spot where the LeBron billboard once was...is that a buildable lot? It would be very close to public transit but a little further from the courts. There was some talk of building something there several years ago, but it never happened. I'm not sure if it is large enough for a justice center, but it would be nice to see something built there. That parcel has been unfinished for nearly 90 years.
November 11, 20195 yr What could even be built at that location? The surrounding traffic is awful there and does not seem to be pedestrian friendly.
November 11, 20195 yr ^ that could be (somewhat) easily addressed though. There just inst any political will for that to change right now.
November 14, 20195 yr Well since we now know where the police HQ will be, here's a feasibility question. What if only the police HQ segment of the Justice Complex was demoed and a new courts tower was built in its place? The old courts tower would suddenly become a more attractive piece of real estate because it's right next to (if not still attached to) the new courts tower, making it more likely a developer might be able to do a cost-effective rehab on it. From an engineering standpoint is that realistic?
November 14, 20195 yr 15 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: Well since we now know where the police HQ will be, here's a feasibility question. What if only the police HQ segment of the Justice Complex was demoed and a new courts tower was built in its place? The old courts tower would suddenly become a more attractive piece of real estate because it's right next to (if not still attached to) the new courts tower, making it more likely a developer might be able to do a cost-effective rehab on it. From an engineering standpoint is that realistic? In your scenario what would be the purpose of the old courts tower in a developers mind?
November 14, 20195 yr 8 minutes ago, simplythis said: In your scenario what would be the purpose of the old courts tower in a developers mind? I don't know, but I could see a variety of options. The proximity to the courts tower would make it an attractive office location for legal and legal-support. It would also be a nice residential location, particularly for people who work at the court regularly. I think a small hotel component wouldn't rock the market too much. There is a need for hotel rooms for out-of-town folks appearing at the court, which is primarily being met right now by the Hilton. What I don't know is how feasible any of those possibilities (or anything else for that matter) are. Obviously it's a building with a pretty big footprint and stories that are really tall.
November 14, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said: Well since we now know where the police HQ will be, here's a feasibility question. What if only the police HQ segment of the Justice Complex was demoed and a new courts tower was built in its place? The old courts tower would suddenly become a more attractive piece of real estate because it's right next to (if not still attached to) the new courts tower, making it more likely a developer might be able to do a cost-effective rehab on it. From an engineering standpoint is that realistic? Except the county has been using more of the space in the CPD HQ that CPD has been vacating due to reduced staffing. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 14, 20195 yr On 11/2/2019 at 1:45 PM, Frmr CLEder said: Similar to Riker's Island? Lol Rikers is supposed to be closed down by 2026
November 17, 20195 yr Garfield Heights could save money by merging its municipal court with the one in Cleveland Peter Krouse - Nov. 14, 2019 https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/11/garfield-heights-could-save-money-by-merging-its-municipal-court-with-the-one-in-cleveland.html "Mayor Vic Collova said this week that he will consider an idea pitched by cleveland.com to merge the municipal court in his financially strained suburb with neighboring Cleveland Municipal Court. And the mayors of Maple Heights and Newburgh Heights, two of seven other communities served by the Garfield Heights court, told cleveland.com that they also would be willing to consider a merger. ... The timing also might be right for Cleveland Municipal Court, which is housed in Cuyahoga County’s antiquated Justice Center in downtown Cleveland. The county is looking to renovate or replace its Justice Center. Additional space to accommodate a merger of the Garfield Heights and Cleveland courts could be incorporated into plans for a new or reconfigured complex." If Garfield Heights were to merge with Cleveland's municipal court, it would include 7 southern suburbs with a combined population of over 75,00 residents. More regionalism, consolidation and a potentially bigger Justice Center.
November 17, 20195 yr ^My gut feeling is each community will go its separate ways. Brecksville and Independence to Parma. The northern suburbs to Cleveland and Maple Heights and Valley View to Bedford.
November 18, 20195 yr When I saw "also would consider a merger" I thought they meant merging the cities entirely. Ahh a man can dream lol.
November 18, 20195 yr 7 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: When I saw "also would consider a merger" I thought they meant merging the cities entirely. Ahh a man can dream lol. If the City had their sh*t together, regionalism would be a lot easier. These suburbs see how piss poor CoC services are. There’s no pride, there’s no attention to detail. Nobody should ever need to do a special improvement district. These are all basic things that the city should provide at taxpayer expense. Edited November 18, 20195 yr by marty15
November 18, 20195 yr We have an administration that I would essentially equate it to an exercise in going through the motions. And it’s sad and tragic. Cause they could have a massive impact in incredible ways.
November 18, 20195 yr I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure the City has not adequately adjusted it's organizational structure to reflect the changes in population and revenue, similar to corporate downsizing.
November 18, 20195 yr 35 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said: I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure the City has not adequately adjusted it's organizational structure to reflect the changes in population and revenue, similar to corporate downsizing. They have not. At all.
November 18, 20195 yr 11 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said: I can't say for certain, but I'm pretty sure the City has not adequately adjusted it's organizational structure to reflect the changes in population and revenue, similar to corporate downsizing. I've actually tried to find data on this very subject. I'm willing to bet the city has WAY more employees than they ever had when our population peaked in 1950. But that is the subject of another thread.
November 18, 20195 yr It's what I suspected. I'm less concerned about the foot soldiers because the City needs jobs and they're the ones who should actually be getting things done on the ground but the management structure is another thing.
November 21, 20195 yr Author “‘Cuyahoga County Justice Center committee presented with nine design options downtown and elsewhere’ CLEVELAND, Ohio – Consultants on Thursday unveiled nine design options for a new or renovated Cuyahoga County Justice Center that range from keeping the courthouses, prosecutor’s office and jail in their existing location or moving all or some of them. The committee appointed to decide whether to renovate or replace the aging and decrepit Justice Center will have working groups select their top options to consider at a meeting in December. A final design is not expected until March.“ https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/11/cuyahoga-county-justice-center-committee-presented-with-nine-design-options-downtown-and-elsewhere.html
November 22, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, marty15 said: I cringe at every mention of “campus like”. Downtown IS your campus! Dont go all CSU on me now ?
November 22, 20195 yr Can they find space for their silly "campus" downtown or will we lose more employees for the Opportunity Corridor? There's been months worth of articles about the decrepit jail and need for reform to use as justification for whatever they decide. Quote Appelbaum and the consultants hired by the county presented pros and cons for each of the designs. For example, the four designs that involve staying at the existing downtown location were estimated to be the most expensive. They also would require high-rise jail construction and limited ability to implement program changes designed to reduce jail population.
November 22, 20195 yr 3 minutes ago, Mendo said: Can they find space for their silly "campus" downtown or will we lose more employees for the Opportunity Corridor? There's been months worth of articles about the decrepit jail and need for reform to use as justification for whatever they decide. I don't think the legal lobby would let them move away from downtown. Too many law offices etc surrounding the Justice Center. Maybe they'll do a swap with Sherwin Williams and build a river front campus next to the Fed Court tower?
November 22, 20195 yr 5 minutes ago, Cleburger said: I don't think the legal lobby would let them move away from downtown. Too many law offices etc surrounding the Justice Center. Maybe they'll do a swap with Sherwin Williams and build a river front campus next to the Fed Court tower? I’m cool with this idea. Another riverfront courthouse tower.
November 22, 20195 yr 3 hours ago, Sapper Daddy said: ^would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that meeting. How bout a camera in the back?
November 22, 20195 yr 11 hours ago, Cleburger said: I don't think the legal lobby would let them move away from downtown. Too many law offices etc surrounding the Justice Center. Maybe they'll do a swap with Sherwin Williams and build a river front campus next to the Fed Court tower? Just the court tower, no jail. That could and should go elsewhere.
November 22, 20195 yr 15 hours ago, marty15 said: I cringe at every mention of “campus like”. Downtown IS your campus! Maybe it's because I went to Case, but I've always perceived "campus like" surroundings as designed to be not especially welcoming to the general public.
November 23, 20195 yr SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2019 Report suggests new courthouse tower and jail campus are best options There's a lot more data to be refined and opinions to be weighed, but a preliminary report on Cuyahoga County's Justice Center shows that constructing a new downtown courthouse tower and a multi-acre jail campus outside of downtown might be the most beneficial and, yes, affordable option for the county. Specific sites were not considered at this early stage, aside from some options that proposed reusing some or all of the existing Justice Center properties and neighboring county-owned land downtown. Detailed cost information also was not yet developed. MORE https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/11/report-suggests-new-courthouse-tower.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 23, 20195 yr Except a 60-story scenario would require a 30-level parking garage. It would probably take about 20 minutes to drive to/from the top parking level. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 23, 20195 yr 4 minutes ago, KJP said: Except a 60-story scenario would require a 30-level parking garage. It would probably take about 20 minutes to drive to/from the top parking level. Then make it 10 levels and 40-45 stories.
November 23, 20195 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: Except a 60-story scenario would require a 30-level parking garage. It would probably take about 20 minutes to drive to/from the top parking level. I was ready to make that sacrifice.
Create an account or sign in to comment