22 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Did it mention what other projects won state tax credits? Just glad to finally see this moving forward. 

Cincy projects that missed out include 

 

- The Terraces 

- First National Bank Building

- Factory 52: Phase 2

- Atrium One

 

edit: Factory 52 next phase is still moving forward even though they lost out on funding. They were apparently going to use the TMUD credits for another parking garage.

Edited January 28Jan 28 by cblhaus

West End Mixed Use Development Phase 2 (Hamilton County)

Total Development Cost: $332,785,879

Total Tax Credit: $26,000,000

 

Located in Cincinnati’s West End, this project is a multi-phased, mixed-use development at TQL Stadium that will include office, hotel, multifamily rentals, condos, retail, restaurants, parking, and updates to the stadium. Phase 2 of the project includes more than 1.2 million square feet of the 2.7 million-square-foot total development. This phase includes constructing two 13-story mixed-use buildings featuring offices, condos, residential units, retail, restaurants, and hotel spaces totaling 517,130 square feet. Additionally, Phase II will include 610,456 square feet of renovations to the existing TQL Stadium, enhancing the venue’s offerings and capabilities. The project is expected to create approximately 2,102 construction jobs and 1,699 permanent jobs at the project site.

 

https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/OHIOGOVERNOR/2025/01/24/file_attachments/3142703/2025 0127 TMUD Award Descriptions.pdf

57 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Phase II will include 610,456 square feet of renovations to the existing TQL Stadium

Interesting I wonder what the team is planning.

15 hours ago, 646empire said:

Interesting I wonder what the team is planning.

 

I believe part of this project was expanding the concourse on the north and east sides. 

3 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

I believe part of this project was expanding the concourse on the north and east sides. 

Hopefully some of that will be used to replace the LEDs on the facade that are burnt out. Not a good look to have this beautiful stadium and not keep up with the lighting.

12 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Hopefully some of that will be used to replace the LEDs on the facade that are burnt out. Not a good look to have this beautiful stadium and not keep up with the lighting.

I haven’t noticed that, I was recently in front of the stadium with the facade turned on nothing seemed off but maybe I wasn’t looking hard enough. I would assume those would still be under some kind of warranty it’s only been about 4 years 

Edited January 28Jan 28 by 646empire

3 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

 

I believe part of this project was expanding the concourse on the north and east sides. 

 

I wonder if there's enough room to do this. I love the stadium but the concourses are far too narrow sometimes and unfortunately, a lot of people don't enter/exit through the gate closest to their seats (I know I'm guilty of that on occasion).

 

Now if they could build a concourse on the west side that would allow people to walk all the way around the stadium more efficiently, that might help. I also wish they'd get some big ass fans and install them in the concourses or under the canopy so we can get a breeze in the stadium on those hot summer nights with no wind.

4 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I haven’t noticed that, I was recently in front of the stadium with the facade turned on nothing seemed off but maybe I wasn’t looking hard enough. I would assume those would still be under some kind of warranty it’s only been about 4 years 

 

I noticed some weren't working at the end of the season. Mostly on the ends of the LED facade. 

31 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

I noticed some weren't working at the end of the season. Mostly on the ends of the LED facade. 

Gotcha I’m sure they are going to get on top of it. That feature is the most prominent thing about the building and obviously extremely visible to the public, I highly doubt they will let it go too long without replacements. They may actually replace them all at once rather than fin by fin.

Edited January 28Jan 28 by 646empire

A few more details surrounding FC Cincinnati’s 330 Million Dollar first phase breaking ground soon. Very happy this height-density and design is what we are getting over what Columbus is doing outside its soccer stadium which I’m not liking at all. Jeff Berding talks about how the buildings will be very well lit. I think the already very flashy stadium along with these buildings is going to leave a big impression
 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/west-end/fc-cincinnatis-330m-entertainment-district-project-to-break-ground-soon-how-it-could-impact-the-west-end

 

Edited February 6Feb 6 by 646empire

^What does "resurrect" mean in this sentence from the WCPO article? 

 

"Crews will resurrect two, 13-story towers that will sit over 50 feet taller than TQL Stadium, according to renderings."

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/west-end/fc-cincinnatis-330m-entertainment-district-project-to-break-ground-soon-how-it-could-impact-the-west-end

 

5 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

^What does "resurrect" mean in this sentence from the WCPO article? 

It's mandatory these days to have at least one mistake in your journalism. 

11 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

 

It's mandatory these days to have at least one mistake in your journalism. 

 

The article doesn't identify who "Noah O'Brien" is until several paragraphs after his first quote. 

28 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

 

It's mandatory these days to have at least one mistake in your journalism. 

It’s really bad these days. 

Edited February 6Feb 6 by 646empire

Not accusing them of using AI to write the article, but AI has been writing a lot of articles. Some folks, me included, use AI to rewrite stuff but you still need to read it over to see if it's clear.

5 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

It's still there but has 2 floors added to the top. The corner house to the left was demolished around 2007 or 8.

looks great on google maps if it is the Belvedere

23 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

looks great on google maps if it is the Belvedere

it does say "BELVEDERE" on it.

 

 

 

edit: how did you teleport to the west end?

 

Edited February 6Feb 6 by zsnyder

6 hours ago, zsnyder said:

it does say "BELVEDERE" on it.

 

 

 

edit: how did you teleport to the west end?

 

i don't read letters, only numbers so i took the 42.

There will be a virtual meeting next week on the proposed use of TIF funds to help finance a small market-rate renovation project on Freeman Ave.:

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/sites/planning/assets/2025 - CEMs/Freeman Ave Apartments/Freeman-Ave-Narrative.pdf

 

Here's the most important graphic and paragraph:

 

So getting market-rate tenants in this small new project might be needed to create comps for the financing of the redevelopment of the two nearby schools.  Everybody (including myself) who bought property nearby a few years ago is getting frustrated with the inability of either school project to get going after 10 years of anticipation.

 

The property tax on my unoccupied Dayton St. property went up 5X in the last reassessment despite the inability of anyone to get market-rate rents that compare to what exists just a few feet away on the opposite side of Central Parkway. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Would love to see the Heberle and Bloom schools get redeveloped. In the meantime, this cluster of buildings along Freeman appear to be a great project. It takes leadership for individual developers and property owners to transform their properties, as opposed to just waiting until everybody else around them improves their properties first. 

2 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Would love to see the Heberle and Bloom schools get redeveloped. In the meantime, this cluster of buildings along Freeman appear to be a great project. It takes leadership for individual developers and property owners to transform their properties, as opposed to just waiting until everybody else around them improves their properties first. 

Does Zada Development still own Heberle? I know they are still advertising speculative lofts on a web site but i'm not sure it is still active. I looked them up a few years back and it was a wild ride. Yachts, European travels, Lamborghini's fancy Manhattan HQ address but all seemingly tied to a small kitchen remodel place on Staten Island......allegedly.  Id love to see these two schools reused before it's too late too.

49 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Does Zada Development still own Heberle? I know they are still advertising speculative lofts on a web site but i'm not sure it is still active. I looked them up a few years back and it was a wild ride. Yachts, European travels, Lamborghini's fancy Manhattan HQ address but all seemingly tied to a small kitchen remodel place on Staten Island......allegedly.  Id love to see these two schools reused before it's too late too.

 

According to the Auditor's site, the Heberle hasn't changed ownership since 2013: https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/1840005005290/2024/transfers

In 2022, the Port acquired the Lafayette Bloom school: https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/1840003002500/2024/transfers

At the Feb 7 Planning Commission, they approved a lot split for 458 and 460 Dayton St, two historic townhomes. Good to see activity in this part of the West End!

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/february-7-2025/

Developers save West End buildings from demo, plan historic rehab near TQL Stadium

 

A group of friends-turned-developers, who acted at the 11th hour to save a pair of vacant, blighted buildings near FC Cincinnati’s TQL Stadium in the West End, plan to transform the properties into more than a dozen new apartments.

 

The adjoining three-story buildings at 510 W. Liberty St. were built in 1885. Today they stand derelict, with one caved-in roof and significant water damage.

 

The Hamilton County Landbank, a managed entity of the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority, took control of the buildings in December 2018, just two weeks after FC Cincinnati broke ground on TQL Stadium a few hundred yards southeast.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2025/02/26/west-end-liberty-rehab-tql-stadium-fc-development.html

 

1 hour ago, ColDayMan said:

Developers save West End buildings from demo, plan historic rehab near TQL Stadium

 

A group of friends-turned-developers, who acted at the 11th hour to save a pair of vacant, blighted buildings near FC Cincinnati’s TQL Stadium in the West End, plan to transform the properties into more than a dozen new apartments.

 

The adjoining three-story buildings at 510 W. Liberty St. were built in 1885. Today they stand derelict, with one caved-in roof and significant water damage.

 

 

 

 

 

So the vacant lot right next to 510 just listed for a cool $200k:

 

The lot's owner got it for free back in 2010 (Auditor's Deed).  $200k would be the most paid for a lot in the area since the corner of Central Ave. and Wade sold for $250k (also an auditor's deed) back in 2019. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Demo has started under the old brewery next to FCC's stadium. From what is visible so far everything is flat structure and is pretty unremarkable. In theory there are pretty beer vaults underneath a lot of these buildings but I think in this case we aren't' losing anything unique or even that interesting down there. Hopefully with the state money coming through and demo in full swing this project is finally picking up steam. 

I was told the digging/foundation work will take the next 4 - 5 months and then we'll start seeing things go vertical.

13 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Demo has started under the old brewery next to FCC's stadium. From what is visible so far everything is flat structure and is pretty unremarkable. In theory there are pretty beer vaults underneath a lot of these buildings but I think in this case we aren't' losing anything unique or even that interesting down there. Hopefully with the state money coming through and demo in full swing this project is finally picking up steam. 

I depends on your definition of "pretty", "unique", and "interesting". There are 8 massive chambers on the sub basement level and 8 smaller ones on the basement level plus arched tunnels leading under the street to other parts of the now demolished complex. While not the more romantic arched stone cellars of the early lager period they are a very impressive site on their own, documenting the rapid advancement in construction methods and brewing technology in the mature lager period of the late 1800's. They were worthy of preservation and adaptive reuse.

 

Those photos are awesome thanks for sharing. In theory I agree that keeping and preserving our lagering tunnels throughout town is something to strive for, it's just so hard to make them work with required egress, waterproofing and ventilation that the reality is places like Ghost Baby are outliers for a reason. Maybe I'm not creative enough to think of other good uses for them, but since nobody is really using them to lager beer, age cheese or grow mushrooms I think bars/venues are the only other option I've seen proposed and those are just really hard to actually put down there. 

On 2/28/2025 at 10:38 PM, mcmicken said:

 

Just curious, were these last two images renderings/illustrations, or were these made using some technology that can actually visualize what's underground?

 

Just put in glass floors in the hotel lobby. Light them from below.

Wasn't it stated the cellars couldn't support the 10+ story towers that are going to be built?  

11 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Those photos are awesome thanks for sharing. In theory I agree that keeping and preserving our lagering tunnels throughout town is something to strive for, it's just so hard to make them work with required egress, waterproofing and ventilation that the reality is places like Ghost Baby are outliers for a reason. Maybe I'm not creative enough to think of other good uses for them, but since nobody is really using them to lager beer, age cheese or grow mushrooms I think bars/venues are the only other option I've seen proposed and those are just really hard to actually put down there. 

 

Apparently it's okay to bulldoze history when a hospital, cultural institution, or anything "for the children" wants to do it to "fulfill their mission".   Also, soccer teams. 

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

Apparently it's okay to bulldoze history when a hospital, cultural institution, or anything "for the children" wants to do it to "fulfill their mission".   Also, soccer teams. 

 

 

 

Curious as to what you would propose is done here?

In fact, the soccer stadium itself was justified as ‘for the children’ by Sittenfeld when he flipped from ‘no way’ to supporting it. He claimed his conversation with the teacher’s union persuaded him due to the additional tax revenue the schools would get. 🙄

Yeah I totally wish we would have saved the completely unused (for decades) underground cellars instead of having a world class soccer stadium, 160+ residential units, 100+ room hotel, retail space, and entertainment space.  No thanks to $600+ million in development, we absolutely have to keep everything that is old.  It's totally irrelevant there are other unused underground cellars still in that area, these ones should have been saved! 🙄

 

Some of you are literally never happy. 

Won't someone please think of the cellars! Please why won't anyone think of the cellars!

On 3/3/2025 at 9:43 AM, taestell said:

 

Just curious, were these last two images renderings/illustrations, or were these made using some technology that can actually visualize what's underground?

 

Brewery District CURC had Berding Surveying 3D scan them.

1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah I totally wish we would have saved the completely unused (for decades) underground cellars instead of having a world class soccer stadium, 160+ residential units, 100+ room hotel, retail space, and entertainment space.  No thanks to $600+ million in development, we absolutely have to keep everything that is old.  It's totally irrelevant there are other unused underground cellars still in that area, these ones should have been saved! 🙄

 

Some of you are literally never happy. 

I was responding to the characterization that they are unimportant/uninteresting/not unique. I am fully in support of development on that site. Development in a historic neighborhood is better when it integrates with historic fabric, rather than bulldozing it. With creativity there could have been a solution that incorporated both preservation and the new build.

Between the lagering tunnels, cellars, sub basements and the miles of subway tunnel; OTR has a surplus of underground developable space. I think we should become the mushroom capital of the world and start utilizing all these spaces to get ahead of the future psylocibin wave that's about to come as drugs get less and less regulated. I can't tell if I'm joking or not? 

3 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah I totally wish we would have saved the completely unused (for decades) underground cellars instead of having a world class soccer stadium, 160+ residential units, 100+ room hotel, retail space, and entertainment space.  No thanks to $600+ million in development, we absolutely have to keep everything that is old.  It's totally irrelevant there are other unused underground cellars still in that area, these ones should have been saved! 🙄

 

Some of you are literally never happy. 

 

This is a false dichotomy. No one is saying that the new stadium-adjacent development shouldn't be built because the tunnels exist. Like @mcmicken said, there was an opportunity to do something unique here that incorporated the history into the new location, rather than bulldozing everything and pretending it's a greenfield development like Liberty Center.

 

FC Cincinnati is building a speakeasy inside of the stadium right now because speakeasies are an incredibly popular and profitable concept right now. Would have been really cool if they could have instead built one inside the lager tunnels under the new development and made it connect to the brewing history that existed at this exact location before the development was built.

21 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

This is a false dichotomy. No one is saying that the new stadium-adjacent development shouldn't be built because the tunnels exist. Like @mcmicken said, there was an opportunity to do something unique here that incorporated the history into the new location, rather than bulldozing everything and pretending it's a greenfield development like Liberty Center.

 

FC Cincinnati is building a speakeasy inside of the stadium right now because speakeasies are an incredibly popular and profitable concept right now. Would have been really cool if they could have instead built one inside the lager tunnels under the new development and made it connect to the brewing history that existed at this exact location before the development was built.

Almost certain the development at this site could not be built to the current projects height and specs because the lagering tunnels could not support the weight of the development.Let me look for specifics 

 

The lagering vaults, according to that document, were to become a restaurant or a bar with “vast skylights and monumental stairs leading down into the space.”

FC Cincinnati scrapped that vision sometime between 2021 and late 2022, when it presented the new concept plan to the West End Community Council. It contracted with O'Rourke Wrecking in spring 2023 to demolish the building to grade level.

Now, the club wrote in its demolition grant application, “the location of the stone vaults interferes with the new building foundations. The vaults must be excavated and demolished so that the new building will have a solid foundation. Extensive shoring and backfill is necessary to remove the vaults.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/09/06/fc-cincinnati-mixed-use-district-demo-beer-tunnels.html?utm_source=sy&utm_medium=ptr&utm_campaign=local12

Edited March 4Mar 4 by ucnum1

Yeah you all can't have it both ways of save the cellars and re-use them but also build dense new developments.  I would much rather get two new 10+ story buildings out of this and lose some old unused cellars versus keeping the cellars but then needing three or four 5 story buildings.  

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

Between the lagering tunnels, cellars, sub basements and the miles of subway tunnel; OTR has a surplus of underground developable space. I think we should become the mushroom capital of the world and start utilizing all these spaces to get ahead of the future psylocibin wave that's about to come as drugs get less and less regulated. I can't tell if I'm joking or not? 

If you're going to Zincinnati
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you're going to Cincinnati
You're gonna meet some gentle stoned people there

 

All across the nation
Such a strange fungi-nation
People in cellars 
There's a whole generation
With an ecstatic explanation
People in cellars

With monumental stairs
 

10 minutes ago, RJohnson said:

If you're going to Zincinnati
Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair
If you're going to Cincinnati
You're gonna meet some gentle stoned people there

 

All across the nation
Such a strange fungi-nation
People in cellars 
There's a whole generation
With an ecstatic explanation
People in cellars

With monumental stairs
 

 

Getting in on the (below) ground floor of this expected trend?

7 hours ago, taestell said:

 

connect to the brewing history that existed at this exact location 

And not just any brewing history.

16 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah I totally wish we would have saved the completely unused (for decades) underground cellars instead of having a world class soccer stadium, 160+ residential units, 100+ room hotel, retail space, and entertainment space.  No thanks to $600+ million in development,

 

FC has bulldozed everything.  They and their fans act like they care so much about the city but all they do is tear stuff down.  There has been absolutely no attempt to creatively preserve anything.  Meanwhile the stadium hasn't motivated any spin-off investment.   People who remember Berding in the 90s tried to warn you guys but we were met with hissing. 

 

 

Quote

we absolutely have to keep everything that is old

 

Is this 1955? 

 

What if Trump's tariffs trigger inflation and suddenly FC doesn't break ground on this development?  5+ more years of a big gravel lot.  We had that happen with Fountain Square West, The Banks, etc. 

 

 

Well the current foundations being dug (literally discussed above) are the first step in the teams $300+ million development.  Not sure how that doesn't count as "stadium motivated spin off investment."  But apparently you're just going to keep acting like the this isn't going to happen until it's completely finished and opened.  

here is a bit of development. Samuel Adams built a nice wall that hide their beer tanks and even painted a mural on it. the Findlay market area has added apartments, parking, and retail which will be completed soon. This development was on hold or dead for 10 years or so. Possible arena, continued development of Liberty, rework of Central Parkway, and new rec center. All these developments incentivize banks, developers, and homeowners to invest in the area. 

1 minute ago, RJohnson said:

here is a bit of development. Samuel Adams built a nice wall that hide their beer tanks and even painted a mural on it. the Findlay market area has added apartments, parking, and retail which will be completed soon. This development was on hold or dead for 10 years or so. Possible arena, continued development of Liberty, rework of Central Parkway, and new rec center. All these developments incentivize banks, developers, and homeowners to invest in the area. 

 

The Complete Street renovation of Central Parkway