24 minutes ago, breakground said:

You should check. In court, the 'developer' admitted they did not have financing. Extremely doubtful - this is not an experienced crew. 

Oof, not ideal then!

I have no doubt that the boutique hotel site will be developed, even if the current plan falls through. With the Central Parkway rebuild that's about to begin, this is going to be a part of town that attracts a lot of investment.

2 hours ago, jmicha said:

I'm also not quite sure what the expectation here is. Let's say a few hundred million is spent adjacent to the stadium. Expecting that to happen in only a few years isn't realistic. Development of this size takes a long time and they let us in on their plans extremely early in the process.

 

 

Nashville's soccer stadium opened a year after ours and people are already living in new apartments built on the stadium grounds:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9qKTnzhwDp/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xaOoahhSR/

 

 

Also, in Nashville they don't p***y-foot with a song & dance regarding their supposed concerns for the neighborhood.  Then again, there is nothing historic to even tear down in Nashville:

 

 

It is a lot easier to get a development built on a nearly-empty section of fairground than a dense urban neighborhood with 150-year-old tunnels underneath. 

 

New crap is being built literally a bloc away around Findlay Market and a lot of that has taken years to get going. As for the tunnels, just because something is old, doesn't mean it needs to be kept around. They don't serve a practical purpose and make it harder to build on the site. Plenty of tunnels remain if someone wants to copy/paste Ghost Baby. But because it's FCC developing the site, we all have to lose our minds.

1 hour ago, Lazarus said:

 

Nashville's soccer stadium opened a year after ours and people are already living in new apartments built on the stadium grounds:

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9qKTnzhwDp/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8xaOoahhSR/

 

 

Also, in Nashville they don't p***y-foot with a song & dance regarding their supposed concerns for the neighborhood.  Then again, there is nothing historic to even tear down in Nashville:

 

 

I love Cincy but it is no Nashville. So this comparison doesn’t really fly. Nashville is hotter than hot for development.

Also there's nothing next to the Nashville Stadium as is. It's out of town in the fairgrounds so there's more of an impetus to build out. You have a ton of stuff near TQL Stadium as it is so there's not as big of a hurry getting things built. But if you don't think that FCC moving to the West End was a good thing, you haven't been down to OTR and the West End on the day that an event is happening at the stadium. Good luck getting a walk-in for dinner and even getting into a bar is tough. 

Not going to act as though I'm the definitive authority here, but I work day in day out with developers from the design side of things. Projects do not move quickly these days. Just because an insanely hot market was able to get something quicker than Cincy doesn't somehow mean things are a "song and dance" or a lie. Projects of that scale, in a location dealing with more than a simple field, in a market that's healthy but still relatively affordable and slower moving, take ages to become reality.

 

The only difference here is that we have early visibility into their goals. It's rare that development of this scale will have any sort of public release until way further into the process. Most projects you find out when things are gearing up towards construction, or are being submitted for final design reviews, etc. Not at a conceptual stage.

Does anyone know what hotel(s) they're thinking about for this site?

Marquee is the development partner and they also did the Wrigleyville redevelopment with Hotel Zachary which I assume is very similar to the desired endgame at FCC. That hotel is a Tribute portfolio hotel (Marriott), that doesn't mean that's the exact flag we would get but that's a known relationship.

10 hours ago, Miami-Erie said:

Does anyone know what hotel(s) they're thinking about for this site?

It isn't a Hilton brand at least for time being... Every Marriott flag is taken in the city except W and some of the higher end full service brands. Could be a true boutique or possibly Hyatt Independent portfolio.

9 hours ago, savadams13 said:

It isn't a Hilton brand at least for time being... Every Marriott flag is taken in the city except W and some of the higher end full service brands. Could be a true boutique or possibly Hyatt Independent portfolio.

 

I guess it could be a Marriott flag that is already in town. Perhaps something like an Aloft (newport on the levee) or AC (the banks).

Go for a Shinola Hotel like Indianapolis (though hopefully better looking):

 

On 9/11/2024 at 9:42 AM, ColDayMan said:

Go for a Shinola Hotel like Indianapolis (though hopefully better looking):

 

 

I don't hate this.

1 hour ago, Miami-Erie said:

 

I don't hate this.

I don’t either but the Indianapolis hotels only 13 floors. 

Would be cool if this ends up being a little mini skyline. 18 stories goes maybe 300 feet?

More around 200 feet if it's a hotel.

On 9/11/2024 at 8:13 AM, Miami-Erie said:

 

I guess it could be a Marriott flag that is already in town. Perhaps something like an Aloft (newport on the levee) or AC (the banks).

Licensing agreements have mileage boundaries, hotel chains legally can't sell another brand/flag within a certain distance. So any brand in the Cincinnati nky basin especially higher end and full service brands won't have a duplicate in the general area hurting business of the original property...

17 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

More around 200 feet if it's a hotel.

Schematic on previous page lists up to 303' and 281'. There also one that's like 190'.

Cincinnati Port plans $4M West End residential project

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Sep 16, 2024

 

The Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority plans to redevelop three vacant West End buildings into more than a dozen new apartments.

 

The Hamilton County Landbank, which is managed by the Port, acquired the properties at 1904 Linn St., 2011 Colerain Ave. and 2025 Colerain Ave. in 2017 and 2018.

 

Two of the buildings will have up to three units, while the third will have seven or eight units. The Port may end up holding and managing the units itself, something it did not really do before it purchased a large portfolio of single-family homes in 2022.

 

MORE

Berding was talking about the Bengals stadium renovation and new practice facility, but an interesting nugget confirmed what many here were already suspecting, they have plans to develop the south side of the stadium on the land currently occupied by the police station. 

 

"While the first and second phases of the development will go north of the stadium, Berding confirmed a third phase south of it on the current Cincinnati Police District 1 headquarters building, which he said “at some point the city is going to relocate.” This of course ties into their desire to have an arena on the WCET site as well, which is why he's commenting on the Paycor renovations and doesn't want it to A. get all the public money and B. not be a dome. 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/10/08/berding-bengals-paycor-stadium-plan-fc-cincinnati.html

If a new arena replaces the Town Center Garage/Crosley Telecommunication Center, I would expect the new arena and TQL Stadium to be linked by new development. Probably even a "concourse level" connection (skywalk) over Ezzard Charles Drive.

52 minutes ago, taestell said:

If a new arena replaces the Town Center Garage/Crosley Telecommunication Center, I would expect the new arena and TQL Stadium to be linked by new development. Probably even a "concourse level" connection (skywalk) over Ezzard Charles Drive.

I really don't think the concourse over Ezzard Charles would fly. 1) Eliminates a landmark view of Music Hall 2) The city is demoing skywalks, not building them 3) Pedestrianization of Central Parkway could expand to Ezzard Charles making the street level experience more pleasant and functional.

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I really don't think the concourse over Ezzard Charles would fly. 1) Eliminates a landmark view of Music Hall 2) The city is demoing skywalks, not building them 3) Pedestrianization of Central Parkway could expand to Ezzard Charles making the street level experience more pleasant and functional.

Yes, exactly. Skywalks are done for, at least for the foreseeable future, so they would be pushing for a better front yard on Central...which they've already been doing for some time now.

And it's not like that's a terrible intersection to walk across. When I was parking in the city hall garage, I had to walk that way to the stadium all the time.

I appreciate your optimism that Berding's arena will be integrated into the urban fabric and add vibrancy and activity to the street level. However I think if Berding wants a skywalk over Ezard Charles linking a new arena concourse directly to new development on the north side of the street, he's going to get it, because this city's politicians don't have the guts to stand up to anyone with money and power.

Edited October 9, 2024Oct 9 by taestell

1 minute ago, taestell said:

I appreciate your optimism that Berding's arena will be integrated into the urban fabric and add vibrancy and activity to the street level. However I think if Berding wants a skywalk over Ezard Charles linking a new arena concourse directly to new development on the north side of the street, he's going to get it, because this city's politicians don't have the guts to stand up to anyone with money and power.

Sure, they would probably cave to him, but I doubt he would want one. They want Central to be good enough for their planned uses that a skywalk wouldn't be needed.

I don't see a Skywalk here being the end of the world.

I don't see a skywalk being a thing. I don't know why people are thinking that it even would be other than ascribing some nefarious plan to Berding without evidence. Any new development around the stadium and arena is going to need a ton of street activation and funneling people away from the street negates that. Plus, there's no parking in the immediate area meaning that most of the patrons to TQL Statium or the future arena are walking in from as far away as the downtown Kroger and City Hall. Meaning more people on the street. 

 

That being said, if/when an NWSL team is announced and if/when a new arena is built, that whole area is going to be swamped with cars. I park in the Findlay Market garage for FCC games and it took me 40 minutes to get out after Hell is Real. I can't imagine the mess if/when there's a MLS/NWSL game and a concert in the arena at the same time. The city is going to need to look at better transit options for the urban core

15 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

The city is going to need to look at better transit options for the urban core

 

So what you're saying is... 

 

There's still traffic after games and large events in the best transit cities in the world.  NYC, Europe, Asia, it doesn't matter.  When you cram 25,000+ people into one small area it is going to cause congestion.  Congestion on the roads, on the sidewalks, in the bike lanes, and in the public transit.  I have no sympathy for people who complain about these kind of things.  Leave the event early if you want to beat the traffic.  Wait out the traffic by getting a drink or taking a walk.  It's really not that hard.  The traffic jam will always happen right when the event ends.  

Even so. There still needs to be improved transit options to get people to/from the urban core and the West End. Would that solve the problem? No. But I can tell you from experience having lived in a city of a similar size as Cincy with rail transit and better BRT, that it does help a lot when people have other options than to drive in and hope something is open and not overcrowded at 10/11 p.m. after an event.

 

3 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

There's still traffic after games and large events in the best transit cities in the world.  NYC, Europe, Asia, it doesn't matter.  When you cram 25,000+ people into one small area it is going to cause congestion.  Congestion on the roads, on the sidewalks, in the bike lanes, and in the public transit.  I have no sympathy for people who complain about these kind of things.  Leave the event early if you want to beat the traffic.  Wait out the traffic by getting a drink or taking a walk.  It's really not that hard.  The traffic jam will always happen right when the event ends.  

it's funny how city planners need to be told that living in a city is the reason there are people everywhere. Liberty and Central Parkway are major arteries for the downtown and will become even more important if there is an arena built on Central Parkway. City living includes street vendors, street musicians, beggars, pimps, and crazy people. there are options though like moving to a sub-division 20 miles outside the city and driving the family to see a soccer game. Or, just accepting the fact that cars and people are a problem. Urbanism is a disease that doesn't have a cure. In the 50s Popular Science published many articles on the cities of the future. Flying Cars, Backpack jet propulsion for one. 75 years has passed and Popular Sci. is just reusing the old illustrations.

It appears Kaiker has put a new steeple and roof on the old German Reform Church at Hulbert and Freeman.

15 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

It appears Kaiker has put a new steeple and roof on the old German Reform Church at Hulbert and Freeman.

When did the steeple come down? As of this summer, it was still up: https://www.google.com/maps/place/1815+Freeman+Ave,+Cincinnati,+OH+45214/@39.1167638,-84.5314201,3a,75y,242.13h,109.77t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sbPK4pQGCnbLxYtfi9unDgQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-19.766031908247925%26panoid%3DbPK4pQGCnbLxYtfi9unDgQ%26yaw%3D242.1261760284952!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x8841b404c3852a4f:0xcaca6eb9c7e9f737!8m2!3d39.1165926!4d-84.5317714!16s%2Fg%2F11c29qyyws?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

It's there now so I'm not sure what you mean.

4 hours ago, anusthemenace said:

It's there now so I'm not sure what you mean.

They just reclad the steeple. Took it down to the wood beams and recovered it in plywood/particle board and reflashed/shingled it. It was never not there, it was just naked for a few days.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/11/15/boston-beer-sam-adams-brewery-buys-land-west-end.html

 

Lots of parcels in the West End were recently bought by Sam Adams, including the lot on Livingston that used to be a horse pasture up until pretty recently. 

1 minute ago, jwulsin said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/11/15/boston-beer-sam-adams-brewery-buys-land-west-end.html

 

Lots of parcels in the West End were recently bought by Sam Adams, including the lot on Livingston that used to be a horse pasture up until pretty recently. 

Did they also buy the land where Amir market was? I saw in the news last night that it was closing and was being torn down for redevelopment. All in all it is nice to see a decent amount of land being purchased (even though it’s prolly just for A Sam Adams expansion?)

Makes me wonder if they are moving the semi trailer lots to this new property so an arena could be built immediately west of the brewery on the land bound by Liberty, Poplar, John St. and Central Avenue. An arena on Liberty directly west of the brewery would be walking distance to the garages already built for FC Cincinnati stadium.

 

wonder if Sam Adams company or Jim Koch would partner with FC Cincinnati group on an arena project 

Did they buy the weird lot at 1550 Central so that the corner of Liberty and Central isn't a weird vacant back of beige buildings? 

FWIW, 1726 Linn Street, the last parcel of these 2 blocks that would not be under Sam Adams' control, is the location of the proposed West End Sports Bar & Grill that just got carry over budget from the city.

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

Did they buy the weird lot at 1550 Central so that the corner of Liberty and Central isn't a weird vacant back of beige buildings? 

1550 Central no longer exists... It was consolidated into 1592 Central Ave when FCC bought the old Tri-State Wholesale Building Supply building and tore it down.

 

I assume you're talking about parcels on Liberty next to Sam Adams at the corners of Central Parkway (308 W Liberty) and Central Ave (1602 Central Ave). Those appear to have not changed hands and are still owned by LLC's that seem connected to the Kenkel family (owners of Tri-State Wholesale Building Supply):

https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/1330005000100/2023/summary

https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/1330005001500/2023/summary

 

i almost bought 1820 Freedom around 1990. sorta wish I had. sorta glad i didn't. beautiful facade, and windows. large rooms high ceiling rooms $18,000. 

did you mean 1820 Freeman?

6 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

did you mean 1820 Freeman?

i believe i did. im old and my hands jitter/palsy and at the end of each sentence, I could have written anything. i stand corrected.

On 11/15/2024 at 11:44 AM, thebillshark said:

Makes me wonder if they are moving the semi trailer lots to this new property so an arena could be built immediately west of the brewery on the land bound by Liberty, Poplar, John St. and Central Avenue. An arena on Liberty directly west of the brewery would be walking distance to the garages already built for FC Cincinnati stadium.

 

wonder if Sam Adams company or Jim Koch would partner with FC Cincinnati group on an arena project 

 

I thought the rumor was that the arena would be around the CET building site.

In the article they said it was for expansion of their facilities. If the city gets their way the arena goes west of the convention center.

Yeah, that spot on Liberty would be pretty awkward for an arena, in terms of both the siting and its surroundings.

A VERY BIG update to FC Cincys plans. I like it!
 

“The $332 million project will now center around two towers − one residential and one a hotel − and a plaza connecting Central Parkway to Central Avenue and the rest of the West End

 

FC Cincinnati's Chad Munitz said the plan consolidates the original seven-building conceptinto a more "refined" design. And at just over 4 acres, this means there's plenty of room for later development on the western half of the site.“

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/11/19/fc-cincinnati-reveals-updates-to-entertainment-district-by-tql-stadium/76432091007/

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2024Nov 20 by 646empire

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

A VERY BIG update to FC Cincys plans. I like it!
 

“The $332 million project will now center around two towers − one residential and one a hotel − and a plaza connecting Central Parkway to Central Avenue and the rest of the West End

 

FC Cincinnati's Chad Munitz said the plan consolidates the original seven-building conceptinto a more "refined" design. And at just over 4 acres, this means there's plenty of room for later development on the western half of the site.“

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/11/19/fc-cincinnati-reveals-updates-to-entertainment-district-by-tql-stadium/76432091007/

 

 

 

I do like the materials used, just wish they would have kept the hotel/condos at 19 floors. Would like a little height variation between buildings.  For height comparison I believe the Blonde apartments are the same height that these will be (177ft).

Edited November 20, 2024Nov 20 by Ucgrad2015