Seems to work in other places:

https://goo.gl/images/LLisqF

The thing about Wrigley is that there's no massive parking garage or lot spewing out tons of cars (though traffic is still bad), it's been there as long as the neighborhood has, and none of the houses around the perimeter of the ballpark are houses anymore, they've been turned into bars.  The other streets were already commercial to begin with, but there is no residential directly adjacent to the park anymore.  Any homes that are just one or two buildings away see no benefit (unless they like going to baseball games) but still have to deal with the noise, light, traffic, and parking.

I thought the reference to Wrigley Field was a joke. Actually, it was a joke, but maybe unintentional.

 

Not only does Wrigley host 85 Cubs games but about 50 concerts each year and since Mike Brown is not involved it is used frequently for high school and civic activities.

 

Not anything like the hulking vacant soccer facility and parking being proposed for the West End, used 15 times per year.

One of the reasons FCC / MLS give for requiring their own stadium is they need revenue from non-soccer events, so hopefully there will be some concerts and such. If FCC gets in the MLS, they most likely will start a pro women's team in the NWSL, which would provide about another 15 events. I think pro rugby and lacrosse are perhaps on the cusp of being viable in parts of the US, especially if football drops off quickly because of CTE, but now you're really scrapping the bottom of the barrel.

 

However your larger point still stands as baseball creates so much more activity. Public funding of any sort for football, soccer, and motorsport stadiums never makes sense. (Canton's Hall of Fame stadium being the exception that proves the rule.) The sheer quantity of MLB, NBA, and NHL games and the adaptability of their venues at least allow reasonable disagreement on public subsidies.

 

The obscene part of this whole situation is how perfect Nippert is. If the MLS were a forward-thinking league instead of an NFL cargo cult, they'd find a way to make it work. Imagine how far the FCC stadium money would go if it went towards renovations to Nippert instead- it could become one of the premier soccer and college football stadiums in the world. For that kind of money, the upper bowl could be rebuild with more luxury seating, part of the UC Rec center could be rebuilt to allow the Bailey to be expanded into a proper standing only section, and the restrooms and concession areas could be massively upgraded.

I would love to use Nippert, and then when FCC makes a push into the postseason, we have to relocated to Paul Brown Stadium or another city entirely because the Bearcats and Bengals both have games that weekend and can't replace the field in time.

 

I also would love using Nippert and then UC decides the relationship isn't worth it anymore and they decide not to renew the lease.

 

I also would love using Nippert and the best players refuse to play for FCC because we use turf instead of natural grass, and they don't want to jeopardize their careers on a weekly basis.

I would love to use Nippert, and then when FCC makes a push into the postseason, we have to relocated to Paul Brown Stadium or another city entirely because the Bearcats and Bengals both have games that weekend and can't replace the field in time.

 

How do venues other venues handle this? The Staples Center hosts the LA Lakers, LA Clippers, and LA Kings. MSG hosts the NY Knicks, NY Rangers, and St. John's.

 

I also would love using Nippert and then UC decides the relationship isn't worth it anymore and they decide not to renew the lease.

 

I was presuming that some sort of joint ownership or 99 year lease would be part of the deal.

 

I also would love using Nippert and the best players refuse to play for FCC because we use turf instead of natural grass, and they don't want to jeopardize their careers on a weekly basis.

 

This is a good point.

Per usual 1400 Sycamore is completely wrong with his hyperbole.  Wrigley field is hosting 8 concerts this year.  It hosted 10 last year.  Not even close to your stated 50.  It also can be booked for corporate events and banquets but I don't see any recent history of hosting "high school and civic activities" since the new ownership recently took over.  Let's assume it does host those things though, why exactly would FC's stadium not be able to host these things?  Basically you overstate the use or Wrigley and also completely understate the use FC's stadium would get. 

 

If the FC stadium would be built it would host ~20 regular season home games a year.  MLS plays 17 regular season games now but with more teams being added that number will increase. You also would have pre season games, possible post season games and summer exhibitions and you're looking at closer to 25-30 events a year.  Then of course you'd also have possible concerts, high school games, international club/national games and civic activities that apparently Wrigley gets to host but not FC's stadium.  So the correct estimate would be closer to 30-40 events a year.  Obviously not as much as a baseball stadium since they play way more games but certainly more then the 15 you claim.

 

Finally you keep bringing up parking.  First off where has FC ever said they'd be building parking?  They've publicly stated the plan would be to build a bigger garage where the current CET garage exists.  So they'd be replacing a current parking garage with a new one.  Even if they do build additional parking it is sorely needed in that area.  Right there you have Music Hall, Memorial Hall, Cincy Shakespeare, SCPA, Washington Park and Stargel Stadium that all host events throughout the year.  You also have people who come to OTR everyday just to go out to eat or drink.  Finally you have the residents of OTR who are in need of places to park.  They've publicly stated they would not build any surface lots so if they did add parking it would likely be underground or possibly a garage with residential units on top.  So if they did add parking that is already something that it greatly needed in that area.

 

tl;dr summary: 1400 Sycamore is making false claims per usual 

I'm not sure how arenas handle it. I'm sure they avoid scheduling concerts and other events when those teams may be in the playoffs. At least for Basketball/Hockey, you can play a game the very next day. For soccer/football the entire field surface has to be turned over and it takes over 24 hours to do.

 

Last year NYCFC had to play a game in EAST HARTFORD, CT because the Yankees advanced deep into the playoffs and had priority over NYCFC.

I'm not sure how arenas handle it. I'm sure they avoid scheduling concerts and other events when those teams may be in the playoffs. At least for Basketball/Hockey, you can play a game the very next day. For soccer/football the entire field surface has to be turned over and it takes over 24 hours to do.

 

Last year NYCFC had to play a game in EAST HARTFORD, CT because the Yankees advanced deep into the playoffs and had priority over NYCFC.

 

You're probably right that football-soccer field changeovers are harder than basketball-hockey. There's the precedent of the New England Revolution, Seattle Sounders, and Atlanta United playing in NFL turf stadiums. Toronto shares their stadium with the CFL team. So I think the league won't require grass fields for a while, and when they do Cincinnati wouldn't be the only one figuring out that problem.

 

Schedule conflicts is a good point, but UC Football only plays 6 or 7 home games a year. I think it would be pretty rare that there would be a conflict. The Friday and Sunday of potential conflict weekends could be kept unscheduled.

One real thing to consider is that New England, Seattle, and Atlanta are all in more desirable markets for big-name players. There are players who won't consider Cincinnati unless it offers the best amenities (there aren't a lot, but there are some). Big name players typically want to live in big cities. Using a turf field would only add another reason not to consider Cincinnati.

 

Most UC Football games are on Saturdays, which means FCC couldn't play Friday or Sunday. Every game past the MLS regular season would have to be scheduled on a Friday or Sunday to allow for FCC post season games. Since the FCC schedule is released before the UC schedule, they would also have to avoid playing home games in the fall to allow UC to schedule their games as needed.

 

The only two teams that use turf that don't share a stadium with a primary tenant are Portland and Minnesota. In Minnesota the season starts too early to get a good surface down since it's so far north. In Portland the stadium is built in a ditch and over a stream, which would lead to a lot of complications if they tried to install natural grass, so they are forced to use turf.

Not only does Wrigley host 85 Cubs games but about 50 concerts each year and since Mike Brown is not involved it is used frequently for high school and civic activities.

 

Mike Brown has nothing to do with FCC.

Most UC Football games are on Saturdays, which means FCC couldn't play Friday or Sunday.

 

I guess I don't see why this would be the case necessarily, but you might be right.

 

Every game past the MLS regular season would have to be scheduled on a Friday or Sunday to allow for FCC post season games.

 

Because they don't want to compete with the NFL or playoff baseball, most of the MLS playoff games are during the week. For example last year The Crew's playoff games took place on: Thursday, Tuesday, Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday. If the MLS gets more popular, they might start scheduling more weekend playoff games.

 

Since the FCC schedule is released before the UC schedule, they would also have to avoid playing home games in the fall to allow UC to schedule their games as needed.

 

College football games are typically scheduled years in advance, especially the early season non-conference games. For example, the days of each of UC's games in 2020 are already set:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-20/2020-cincinnati-bearcats-football-schedule.php

UC even has 3 games already scheduled for 2025:

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/aac/cincinnati-bearcats.php

Can we please stop talking about using Nippert in the MLS?  It's not going to happen.  It was never going to happen. 

Just listen to those NIMBY's!  Their kids will be able to see the stadium from their rooms! 

 

Moeller tried to do this with their field about 15 years ago and the NIMBY's complained about lights, which would be used about 10 times per year and turned off no later than 10PM. They effectively killed the plan so instead, Moeller turned the field which in the past had been open to the neighbors to use as a community asset into a locked facility that the neighbors no longer were able to enjoy.

Covington Catholic FINALLY got lights on their field last year after decades and decades of fighting with their neighbors about it. Until now they had to play all their friday night light home games... on Saturdays at 1pm.

Those public schools barely have marching bands if they have on at all.  So you won't be hearing a pair of 150-piece brass bands like you do out in the suburbs. 

 

But I have to ask -- why do these people care so much?  At most 7-8 times per year there is some sort of interruption to your TV watching.  Boo-hoo. 

West End landlord debunks 'eviction' claim in FC Cincinnati stadium fight

 

The Community Builders, which has managed West End rental property for 17 years, sent a Feb. 28 letter to residents aimed at refuting claims that they would face eviction and displacement by a potential soccer stadium.

 

The letter is a direct response to a flyer distributed in the neighborhood that had a headline in red letters at the top of it with "Eviction Notice Pending," which urged people to come to a Feb. 7 West End community meeting discussing FC Cincinnati's stadium concept there. The flier sparked fear by some residents, who have contacted elected officials about it.

 

"Earlier this month, anonymous flyers were circulated falsely claiming eviction and imminent displacement of West End residents from their homes," according to the letter by City West Apartments official Aimee Benson. "The Community Builders has worked in the West End for 17 years. TCB remains committed to the West End and to preserving and enhancing City West for existing and future residents of all incomes."

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/03/05/west-end-landlord-debunks-eviction-claim-in-fc.html

Here are a few ideas I came up with quickly for redeveloping publicly-owned land in the West End. I am no fan of the numerous unused parks and ball fields, the public housing parking lots, and the poor site plan of the grade school. 

 

Existing configuration:

 

Same area with Bauer Ave. extended and unused CMHA park land developed.  Park is replaced in the center of the Hope VI row homes.

 

The ugly circa-2008 school which manages to sit deadly in the middle of a superblock...why not put it right on the street?  Why did everything CPS build with the bond money come to sit so awkwardly on their respective sites?  Here is the current view:

 

Here the school parking lot is moved to the unused grass in front of the school.  The north/south street is made complete once again and new apartments are built on the unused east lawn:

 

Does this one need a caption?  This arc dates back to the original 1930s public housing.  The trees are mature but it is a waste of space.  Nobody uses it for anything. 

 

 

 

Here is the Stanley Rowe complex...a huge parcel in the middle is given over to surface parking.  Build a garage and put housing on top of it. 

 

A gigantic strip of urban land wasted for parking...this one needs a garage with housing above:

Shawn Baker and Micheal Teggart are showing the first condos of the Kuhfers Lofts project this Friday with a reception from 5:30-8pm.  These are the rehabbed buildings on the north side of Wade St. between Central and John.  These are the first OTR-type conversions in the West End. 

418 Wade unit #1 $254,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574139/418-Wade-St-1-Cincinnati-OH-45202

 

418 Wade unit #2, listed for $322,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574140/418-Wade-St-2-Cincinnati-OH-45202

"West End Ventures" bought 1510 - 1514 Central Avenue for $200,000...showed up on sales file today.

"West End Ventures" bought 1510 - 1514 Central Avenue for $200,000...showed up on sales file today.

 

Stoney Lee Brooks (who owns other random stuff around town) purchased the two properties for $10,000 and $15,000 in 2014.  So a $175,000 gross profit. 

"West End Ventures" bought 1510 - 1514 Central Avenue for $200,000...showed up on sales file today.

 

Stoney Lee Brooks (who owns other random stuff around town) purchased the two properties for $10,000 and $15,000 in 2014.  So a $175,000 gross profit. 

 

Stoney also sold 1626 Walnut for $100,000 a couple of weeks ago, which is a 2 1/2 story shell he bought back in 2001 for $6,000. His retirement is looking pretty good at this point.

"West End Ventures" bought 1510 - 1514 Central Avenue for $200,000...showed up on sales file today.

 

Stoney Lee Brooks (who owns other random stuff around town) purchased the two properties for $10,000 and $15,000 in 2014.  So a $175,000 gross profit. 

 

Stoney also sold 1626 Walnut for $100,000 a couple of weeks ago, which is a 2 1/2 story shell he bought back in 2001 for $6,000. His retirement is looking pretty good at this point.

 

His wheelhouse is so-called Little Bethlehem.  If Rice/Winkler/Gage ever get hot, he's really pocketing some $$$'s. 

 

$4 million condo development coming to the West End

 

 

Long before FC Cincinnati announced its interest in building a soccer stadium in the West End, a husband and wife team started work redeveloping five buildings along Wade Street into more than 20 condos.

 

Joe and Rosemary Jarvis had come to Cincinnati to visit Rosemary’s son and were looking for an investment as they had recently sold a business they owned for 26 years. After seeing all of the redevelopment activity in neighboring Over-the-Rhine, they bought the buildings along Wade Street starting in late 2014.

 

“We were blown away by what was happening, there was construction on every corner,” Joe Jarvis told me.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/10/4-million-condo-development-coming-to-the-west.html

I have noticed this construction along 9th street for a month or so and just now found out what it was. Burke is moving Seed Strategy from Crestview Hills to the West End to be next to them after acquiring them in 2014. Not a huge project, but another nice looking office building across from the new Messer building in the West End.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/04/20/crestview-hills-company-moving-to-west-end.html

 

Neither of the first two Kuhfers Lofts condo units have sold and the price has been dropped $100k~ on each. 

 

Unit 1 has been dropped to $199k:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574139/418-Wade-St-1-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

Unit 2 has been dropped to $224k:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574140/418-Wade-St-2-Cincinnati-OH-45214

 

 

 

Glad to see these types of developments in the West End, but not sure I'd want to buy a condo right across the street from where the new stadium will go.

Glad to see these types of developments in the West End, but not sure I'd want to buy a condo right across the street from where the new stadium will go.

 

The price was way too high for what you're getting.  They are each technically 2-bedrooms but the second bedroom looks very, very small.  Like 8x10.  And the "master" bedroom isn't much bigger.  These are effectively 1-bedroom units and should have been priced as such.  I think each is still priced $50k too high. 

 

A lot of OTR condos with odd layouts are not moving.  The ones priced under $200k are often sitting on the market for long periods of time because they have pillars in odd spots and the space is not particularly useful (others because they are on the third or fourth floor with no elevator).  This occurs because the market wants kitchens with islands and "open" floor plans.  Who is having dinner parties for 18 people in these places?  Nobody, it's all for show. 

 

They sacrificed a lot of space in these Kuhfer's units to put in full kitchens with islands.  If we had a reasonable market, they could have put small kitchens where the second "bedroom" is and left the front room to be nice, large living rooms. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This occurs because the market wants kitchens with islands and "open" floor plans.  Who is having dinner parties for 18 people in these places?  Nobody, it's all for show.

 

Or people want to be able to cook and not be crammed in a little corner.  Being able to see the TV in the living room or communicate with the SO without having to leave the kitchen is a good thing.  The number of people who want the kitchen isolated so they can cook "without distraction" is minuscule.  Otherwise who wouldn't want an open plan?  Small kitchens with no counter space suck too.  Once you get your microwave and a toaster you don't even have space to drop the groceries, let alone actually cook anything. 

I have large dinner parties all the time.  My dining room table is 12' long and it is filled several times a month. Love my open floor plan.

I think sometimes Jake just thinks that if he personally doesn't do something or know people who do it that nobody does. Sometimes he's right (for instance, about those terrible balconies that jut off the side of towers and how nobody uses them really) but in this case people really do make use of open bigger kitchens. Almost everyone entertains via the kitchen these days. Even if it's just a few people, a small closed off kitchen can become a problem fast.

I used to clean apartments for a landlord and often the ovens were completely untouched after someone had lived there for a year or more.  We sometimes found people storing stuff in the ovens. 

 

 

Baking is a bitch and casseroles are so last millennium.  If it weren't for frozen pizzas my oven wouldn't see any use either, even though I use the stove daily. 

Yeah, but that says nothing of the spatial needs of a kitchen. You can throw an enormous party, hosted out of your kitchen, without touching the oven. Your comment was about size and openness, not the use of individual appliances.

Baking is a bitch and casseroles are so last millennium.  If it weren't for frozen pizzas my oven wouldn't see any use either, even though I use the stove daily.

 

Wow, that's so crazy to me. I probably use my oven just as much, if not more, than the stove top. I make casseroles all the time, and I'm a millennial. Never even considered that maybe i'm an outlier.

My oven gets very little usage, not because I don't cook, but because the things I want to cook in it wind up being too much for me, a single person living alone. So it goes unused for extended periods of time while the actual stove top gets use all the time.

 

My kitchen is 5' x 10' and is partially open to the living area. I'd love about 3 extra feet of countertop and enough room for a 36" counterdepth fridge instead of the 30" full depth one that's in there now. The volume is fine, it just juts out into the area you walk through and just feels too big for the space as a result.

 

So essentially, I'd love a bigger kitchen. And I'm a pretty normal person in terms of how much I cook and how many people I have over.

My apartment is so small now that cooking more or less sucks but I do from time to time get on cooking spurts, like cooking baked chicken in the oven.  If you cook it correctly it comes out really well.

 

I was for a long time using a foreman but for chicken it really burnt it and to me didn't come out as well as baking chicken.  There is some good recipes like with asparagus, potatoes, olives, olive oil and chicken breast.

 

Another good one to cook in the oven is salmon or other fish

My oven gets very little usage, not because I don't cook, but because the things I want to cook in it wind up being too much for me, a single person living alone. So it goes unused for extended periods of time while the actual stove top gets use all the time.

 

My kitchen is 5' x 10' and is partially open to the living area. I'd love about 3 extra feet of countertop and enough room for a 36" counterdepth fridge instead of the 30" full depth one that's in there now. The volume is fine, it just juts out into the area you walk through and just feels too big for the space as a result.

 

So essentially, I'd love a bigger kitchen. And I'm a pretty normal person in terms of how much I cook and how many people I have over.

 

Interesting. The reason I use my oven so much is actually because I live alone haha. I can make a casserole on Sunday and get several days worth of meals from it. Easier than making something on the stove top every night I think.

Rehabs throughout OTR and now the West End are turning what used to be apartments into condos.  This is why we often see a former bedroom or living space become an oversized kitchen, to the detriment of the rest of the space.  A small 1-bedroom in a new construction (i.e. The Allison) building can be laid out in a good way but it is rare that the same can happen with an existing historic building. 

 

Overall, condos should be in new buildings and the historic buildings should be rehabbed into either large condos or rehabbed into apartments.  Who the hell wants to commit to 10+ years of walking up 3-4 stories of steps for the next 10+ years?  What if you get injured or get ill?  You can't get into or out of your place.  That's the dilemma for much of OTR and the West End. 

 

How is that different than anywhere else? Very few places require elevators in buildings the size of 95% of OTR's building stock. New construction in OTR rarely hits that threshold as well.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with basically your entire analysis. Bad layouts are the result of bad designers, not building drawbacks. I lay out plenty of 1-bedrooms in historic buildings of these proportions all the time with no issue. It just takes creative thinking.

 

Interesting. The reason I use my oven so much is actually because I live alone haha. I can make a casserole on Sunday and get several days worth of meals from it. Easier than making something on the stove top every night I think.

 

I think my problem is that I get bored when I try to do that haha. I wind up eating half of it then moving on and wasting food which isn't something I enjoy doing. I need to become one of those people who can make a huge quantity of something that is then adapted in creative ways all week so that it doesn't feel repetitive.

It's probably too hard to justify the renovation cost and longer payback period for an apartment versus the (mostly) immediate return on a condo sale.  Of course condo buyers want bigger kitchens, en-suite laundry, storage, and central air, which requires additional work and expense. 

How is that different than anywhere else? Very few places require elevators in buildings the size of 95% of OTR's building stock. New construction in OTR rarely hits that threshold as well.

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with basically your entire analysis. Bad layouts are the result of bad designers, not building drawbacks. I lay out plenty of 1-bedrooms in historic buildings of these proportions all the time with no issue. It just takes creative thinking.

 

Interesting. The reason I use my oven so much is actually because I live alone haha. I can make a casserole on Sunday and get several days worth of meals from it. Easier than making something on the stove top every night I think.

 

I think my problem is that I get bored when I try to do that haha. I wind up eating half of it then moving on and wasting food which isn't something I enjoy doing. I need to become one of those people who can make a huge quantity of something that is then adapted in creative ways all week so that it doesn't feel repetitive.

 

2 or 3 years ago I was on a kick for about 3 months of making every meal for the week on Sundays.  It consisted of my own concoction of 6 chicken breasts, spinach, an assortment of vegetables.  I would basically eat this for every dinner and sometimes lunch during the week and was lifting and working out, etc.  I was in great shape and felt awesome but all the sudden I ate it one day and became disgusted and fell off the health wagon and haven't gotten back on with any consistency since.  Getting in a good habit like that is hard and boredom I think is what drove me out of it.  I love to eat different types of food and eat whatever I want whenever I feel like it though I now notice I put on weight really easily and need to watch myself, I got too much of my dad's genes and not enough of my mom's.  My younger brother eats like a horse and is 6-1 175 lbs. and strong and lean. For me I weighed 250 about 8 months ago at the doc and it freaked me out so back around now to 230 but I should really be at 215, it's a struggle

It's probably too hard to justify the renovation cost and longer payback period for an apartment versus the (mostly) immediate return on a condo sale.  Of course condo buyers want bigger kitchens, en-suite laundry, storage, and central air, which requires additional work and expense. 

 

People complain about a lack of affordability but then they expect all of those things.  Buying three window AC units for an apartment costs less than $1,000.  Getting a central AC unit installed costs over $5,000.  An in-unit washer/dryer hookup plus the appliances themselves costs $2,000+.  The kitchen is the true extravagance, though.  $20,000+ for a "luxury" kitchen as opposed to less than $10,000 to have a contractor rip out the old one and replace everything where it was.  So no major plumbing or electrical changes. 

 

 

You mean the things that bring a housing unit up to current standards of quality of life?

 

I bet back in the day people complained about indoor plumbing adding expense to units. And electricity. Do you know how many thousands you spend on having indoor plumbing? Just crap in a bucket! Who cares about living comfortably?!

 

Overall, condos should be in new buildings and the historic buildings should be rehabbed into either large condos or rehabbed into apartments.  Who the hell wants to commit to 10+ years of walking up 3-4 stories of steps for the next 10+ years?  What if you get injured or get ill?  You can't get into or out of your place.  That's the dilemma for much of OTR and the West End.

 

I view the stairs as a feature, not a bug. Forced exercise inserted into my daily routine. I used to live in a 5th floor walk up and loved that. People live in that situation in cities all over the world without a problem.

I live in a 6 story building on the 5th floor. It has an elevator but I exclusively use the stairs, as do many of my neighbors. Walking up 4 flights to the 5th floor isn't exactly a challenge. And it leaves the elevator open for those who need it since it's slow and if everyone tried to make use of it it would never be useful.

 

When I lived in Cincy I lived on the 4th floor and always took the stairs other than when I got home from work, simply because the lobby didn't have a connection to stairs and it's where the mailboxes were.

I view the stairs as a feature, not a bug. Forced exercise inserted into my daily routine. I used to live in a 5th floor walk up and loved that. People live in that situation in cities all over the world without a problem.

 

It is a huge problem when somebody gets hurt or is ill.  I have numerous relatives who have spent their entire adult lives in wheelchairs and we have had to carry them up and down staircases all the time.  Except one moved to one of the super-heavy electric wheelchairs recently and now we can't pick him up so everyone has to go to him for family get-togethers. 

 

A friend from college just broke his hip and had to spend two months in a bed after surgery.  Good luck getting up and down 3-4 floors of steps going to rehab every day for eight months. 

 

 

City folk don't wind up in those dangerous rural and suburban situations where they're crashing ATVs, falling out of tree stands, suffering water sport mishaps, rolling over SUVs and getting bitten by poisonous creatures though.