June 5, 20187 yr I view the stairs as a feature, not a bug. Forced exercise inserted into my daily routine. I used to live in a 5th floor walk up and loved that. People live in that situation in cities all over the world without a problem. It is a huge problem when somebody gets hurt or is ill. I have numerous relatives who have spent their entire adult lives in wheelchairs and we have had to carry them up and down staircases all the time. Except one moved to one of the super-heavy electric wheelchairs recently and now we can't pick him up so everyone has to go to him for family get-togethers. A friend from college just broke his hip and had to spend two months in a bed after surgery. Good luck getting up and down 3-4 floors of steps going to rehab every day for eight months. I mean, yes--there are situations where it is unworkable. But for the vast majority of people it is not an issue. If you're long-term disabled you would not want to live there. I recall a conversation I had with a guy who was complaining about new townhouses going up in his town that had garages facing rear alleys. The alleys were too narrow for his dually truck to navigate he said, and he was pissed that the township officials didn't think of that when they were reviewing the site plans. I asked him if he planned on buying one of these townhouses and he said no. "Well then why on earth do you care if they can accommodate your truck? I'd imagine the folks buying them don't have a dually." He looked at me like he just realized the earth is round.
June 21, 20186 yr Neat to see this kind of investment in the far western edge of the West End: https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/development/cincinnati-s-traction-building-hamilton-s-champion-paper-mill-win-big-in-historic-tax-credits?page=2 1035 Dayton St., Cincinnati Total Project Cost: $1,061,311 Total Tax Credit: $106,000 Located in Cincinnati's Dayton Street Historic District, this circa-1874 building contained commercial space on the ground floor with apartments above. After being vacant for approximately 15 years, the building needs extensive rehabilitation work. After the project is complete, the building will have five residential units and one commercial space.
June 21, 20186 yr fart western edge of the West End That's my favorite part of town! Didn't mean to write "fart western"... lol
June 23, 20186 yr Blighted buildings in West End, OTR to undergo transformation Local developers received a combined $189,000 in historic preservation tax credits on Wednesday, paving the way for the renovation of two neglected structures in the heart of Cincinnati. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/06/22/blighted-buildings-in-west-end-otr-to-undergo.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 5, 20186 yr The two condos that were put on the market on Wade St. back in March or April have failed to sell, despite price reductions. Maybe we'll see them rented out. https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1574139/418-Wade-St-1-Cincinnati-OH-45214 There have been absolutely zero property sales near the planned FC Cincinnati soccer stadium since it was announced. So the developer feeding frenzy anticipated by supporters and detractors has yet to materialize.
July 19, 20186 yr https://www.citybeat.com/news/blog/21013935/this-250unit-apartment-complex-providing-affordable-housing-in-the-west-end-could-change-hands-soon Slowly but surely the west end will gentrify thanks in large part to the success of otr, but also because of fcc. I’m supportive of low income housing, but I’m also aware that developers have very little interest in developing neighborhoods that are prodimintley low income...There is still a lot of beautiful historic stock in the old west end. Hopefully that can be salvaged in the next decade.
July 23, 20186 yr Tender Mercies just sold 821 Ezzard Charles to something called "821 Flats, LLC": https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1093736,-84.5284167,3a,48.4y,215.04h,98.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s81GcftdJRMaQMlFOhfJbWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Looks like a tear down is much more likely than a rehab.
July 23, 20186 yr Tender Mercies just sold 821 Ezzard Charles to something called "821 Flats, LLC": https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1093736,-84.5284167,3a,48.4y,215.04h,98.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s81GcftdJRMaQMlFOhfJbWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Looks like a tear down is much more likely than a rehab. That's adjacent to the "Arts Apartments" that the previously linked City Beat article reports are for sale.
July 23, 20186 yr 821 Flats will be new-construction, developed by OTR Community Housing and Tender Mercies. There will be 53 efficiency apartments and 4 one-bedroom apartments. It will be permanent, supportive housing, with on-site staff, according to this: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2017/PermanentSupportiveHousing/17-0012-The821Flats.pdf
July 26, 20186 yr 821 Flats will be new-construction, developed by OTR Community Housing and Tender Mercies. There will be 53 efficiency apartments and 4 one-bedroom apartments. It will be permanent, supportive housing, with on-site staff, according to this: https://ohiohome.org/ppd/proposals/2017/PermanentSupportiveHousing/17-0012-The821Flats.pdf excellent. My husband and I fundraise every year for Tender Mercies every year at our holiday party, and stuff like this is why.
July 31, 20186 yr Some interesting for sale prices popping up in the Dayton Historic District 909 Dayton https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/34247733_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.118627,-84.528738,39.116908,-84.531181_rect/18_zm/1_rs/ 809 Dayton https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/34236513_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.119155,-84.526483,39.115717,-84.53137_rect/17_zm/1_rs/ 1007 Dayton https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/170613084_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.119146,-84.52809,39.115708,-84.532977_rect/17_zm/0_mmm/ 1907 1905 Baymiller https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/2093533513_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.118516,-84.527892,39.116798,-84.530335_rect/18_zm/0_mmm/ This one sold this month for $316k according to the County Auditor Site 929 Dayton https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/34247729_zpid/globalrelevanceex_sort/39.118627,-84.528893,39.116908,-84.531337_rect/18_zm/0_mmm/
July 31, 20186 yr ^A lot of stuff is still sitting on the market for a long time, though. Like 6+ months.
July 31, 20186 yr 929 sold in a week and a half. 809 has been on the market for two or so weeks. 1007 for about a month 909 was listed yesterday It'll be interesting to keep an eye on. The potential for 1007 Dayton is incredible if someone had some deep pockets to put it back together.
July 31, 20186 yr Baymiller has been on the market for over 6 months. 1007 Dayton was under contract 2 months ago but that fell through and now it's back on the market. There are various other properties in the west end that have been sitting in purgatory for all of 2018. One on York, another on Oliver.
July 31, 20186 yr Those first two on Dayton are absolutely stunning. If this area can ever experience a true revival, and I think it will, getting a building like that for 500k would be a total steal. Thinking about the homes in LA that get those price tags is utterly depressing. I could get this shack in Inglewood for the price of 929 Dayton: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Inglewood-CA/pmf,pf_pt/20337666_zpid/45888_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/33.988669,-118.302155,33.9179,-118.394423_rect/13_zm/
July 31, 20186 yr Those first two on Dayton are absolutely stunning. If this area can ever experience a true revival, and I think it will, getting a building like that for 500k would be a total steal. Thinking about the homes in LA that get those price tags is utterly depressing. I could get this shack in Inglewood for the price of 929 Dayton: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Inglewood-CA/pmf,pf_pt/20337666_zpid/45888_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/33.988669,-118.302155,33.9179,-118.394423_rect/13_zm/ And that $600k price only nets you HALF of an interest in the property. Lunacy.
July 31, 20186 yr And that $600k price only nets you HALF of an interest in the property. Lunacy. Yeah I don't think Inglewood is *horrible*, which is why I think some people of means are moving there, as compared to Watts and Compton, which were still really rough the last time I was there in 2012.
July 31, 20186 yr Yeah, it's definitely better than Compton, and it's actually going to gentrify really quickly with the new NFL stadium and the Crenshaw rail line that goes right through downtown Inglewood. I was just using it as a quick example of how ludicrous the housing situation is here, and relative to that, how amazingly affordable these beautiful, restored buildings are in the West End. I have to imagine there is a fair amount of property crime still in the WE, though, and I probably wouldn't feel great walking my dog around there after dark, but even still, what a steal.
July 31, 20186 yr I have to imagine there is a fair amount of property crime still in the WE, though, and I probably wouldn't feel great walking my dog around there after dark, but even still, what a steal. Actually not much at all compared to just a few years back from what longer tenured residents say. Hope not to jinx myself, but other than the typical graffiti here and there I personally haven't seen nor been victim to any type of crime in the 3+ years I've been down here. For what it is worth, more people walk their dogs in this neighborhood than did my last hood. Some friends and I stood out on the front sidewalk/street for a few hours til midnight just shooting the shit after the Reds game Friday night. Last words they said when they were leaving to head home were "Man, surprisingly it's really quiet down here"
July 31, 20186 yr Here are the interesting July property sales for the West End: NEHEMIAH MANUFACTURING COMPANY LLC to PUBLIC LIBRARY OF CINCINNATI AND HAMILTON COUNTY $1,750,000 927 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 930 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 931 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 933 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 935 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 937 FINDLAY ST UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 1722 FREEMAN AVE UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 1724 FREEMAN AVE UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 1726 FREEMAN AVE UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 1728 FREEMAN AVE UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC $576,320 1730 FREEMAN AVE UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH OF CINCINNATI to FAMILY FUNERAL CENTERS LLC So what is the library's big plan for this place? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1163369,-84.5355947,3a,60y,48.79h,86.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa_I3SW2G9u0xVfjZtFi8YQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
July 31, 20186 yr So what is the library's big plan for this place? https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1163369,-84.5355947,3a,60y,48.79h,86.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sa_I3SW2G9u0xVfjZtFi8YQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 This was publicized a couple of weeks ago: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/07/17/public-library-buys-west-end-industrial-building.html It will be the Library's centralized distribution facility, essentially just for storing books and then using the loading docks to truck the books between the branches as necessary.
August 11, 20186 yr There are a bunch of workers at the Lafayette-Bloom school today, with lifts painting the windows doing some interior work (not sure what exactly). I'm glad to see work being done. Painting windows is usually done towards the end of a project (especially since it seems like lots of the windows will need at least some of the glass panes replaced), so I'm not sure why they're painting right now... but whatever the case, it's good to see activity there.
August 13, 20186 yr ^They are trying to avoid fines from last years West End Blitz (NEP). I assure you, this is nothing to get excited about yet. I'm fairly convinced that the current owners Zada, will not be the ones that see these projects through. (Bloom and Herbele School) http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/
August 13, 20186 yr ^They are trying to avoid fines from last years West End Blitz (NEP). I assure you, this is nothing to get excited about yet. I'm fairly convinced that the current owners Zada, will not be the ones that see these projects through. (Bloom and Herbele School) http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/ Interesting. I was surprised to see several guys working on the interior as well though. Maybe Zada is prepping it for a sale?
August 13, 20186 yr ^They are trying to avoid fines from last years West End Blitz (NEP). I assure you, this is nothing to get excited about yet. I'm fairly convinced that the current owners Zada, will not be the ones that see these projects through. (Bloom and Herbele School) http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/ Interesting. I was surprised to see several guys working on the interior as well though. Maybe Zada is prepping it for a sale? Based on that site it t looks like this is the only current product Zada has, and the only past project was a bland commercial building? I hope you are right and they sell this for a slight bump to someone who will follow through. Dude looks like he does this as a side job to tell people he is a developer at parties. https://www.google.com/maps/place/690+E+Hwy+50,+Clermont,+FL+34711/@28.5486018,-81.746855,3a,51.2y,21.98h,89.47t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1spZS4K_d56EPTirduWpndOw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DpZS4K_d56EPTirduWpndOw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D25.273514%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x88e78eefeda14571:0x5d8ef020c82daca4!8m2!3d28.5490599!4d-81.746611
September 5, 20186 yr Somebody trying to sell a shell on Baymiller for $88,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $90,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1594872/2129-Colerain-Ave-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $133,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589180/1819-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $140,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 These prices are ridiculous. Vacant homes were selling in the West End for $20,000 two years ago. Anyone who pays $100k~ for one of those listings is a fool.
September 5, 20186 yr ^I really highly doubt that the FC Cincy stadium is going to spur any type of redevelopment whatsoever of parts of the neighborhood like Baymiller. The only thing it will do IMO is possibly reinforce some people to live in OTR / mixed used apartments they develop directly around the site. I don't mean to sound like a "know it all" but there isn't going to be any soccer bros or suburban soccer fans that walk onto Baymiller Street and say, "Ya know, I'm going to fork out 100k to buy this empty shell". I think where that is happening in the West End is on Dayton Street and even then it isn't like gangbusters. I'm pretty certain that area has a lot of crime and even would be difficult for folks living on Vine Street now to contemplate living there at the moment. Sorry if anyone takes that the wrong way, but it is a tough, poverty stricken area of town.
September 5, 20186 yr Somebody trying to sell a shell on Baymiller for $88,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $90,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1594872/2129-Colerain-Ave-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $133,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589180/1819-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 ...and another one for $140,000: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589178/1813-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 These prices are ridiculous. Vacant homes were selling in the West End for $20,000 two years ago. Anyone who pays $100k~ for one of those listings is a fool. That last URL is wrong. The property that is listed for $140k is 1817 Baymiller: https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1589179/1817-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214
September 5, 20186 yr Those shells seem to have clear polycarbonate window coverings on the street-side facades, instead plywood... which reminds me that an Ohio law was passed in early 2017 (I think) that prohibited plywood on vacant buildings. Anybody know the status of that plywood ban? I haven't seen any other buildings use the polycarbonate clear boards, so it doesn't seem like the law is in effect. https://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2017/01/05/ohio-plywood-ban/96201288/
September 5, 20186 yr That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc.
September 5, 20186 yr That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc. I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing.
September 5, 20186 yr That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc. I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing. Similar law in Philly is strictly enforced and has been very successful.
September 5, 20186 yr That's a pretty ridiculous and unenforceable law. There are probably thousands of buildings in the city that already have boards, and good luck tracking down the owners for compliance. It's also just silly to think someone who is boarding up an old building is going to invest in something as expensive as polycarbonate when more often than not they use whats at hand. Doors, sheet metal, plastic, etc. I agree that vacant building owners wouldn't want to do this... but if enforced (by fining non-compliant owners), it would a) generate some revenue for the City, b) encourage owners to sell properties they've been sitting on, and c) would make the buildings a bit more attractive for neighbors to look at. I care more about the first two effects. Anything that makes it LESS attractive for owners to sit on vacant buildings is a good thing. Or just as likely they allow the fines and other liens on the property to accumulate, making it harder to sell at anything but a windfall, which is what these speculators are waiting for anyway. The whole VMBL program came about for similar reasons, but has in many cases made it more difficult for little guys to buy such properties with all the added encumbrances.
September 5, 20186 yr Yeah... I don't know exactly where the VBML (Vacant Building Maintenance License) system falls down, but it doesn't seem to be working as intended. It seems like moving cases through the courts takes too long.
September 5, 20186 yr ^I really highly doubt that the FC Cincy stadium is going to spur any type of redevelopment whatsoever of parts of the neighborhood like Baymiller. The only thing it will do IMO is possibly reinforce some people to live in OTR / mixed used apartments they develop directly around the site. I don't mean to sound like a "know it all" but there isn't going to be any soccer bros or suburban soccer fans that walk onto Baymiller Street and say, "Ya know, I'm going to fork out 100k to buy this empty shell". I think where that is happening in the West End is on Dayton Street and even then it isn't like gangbusters. I'm pretty certain that area has a lot of crime and even would be difficult for folks living on Vine Street now to contemplate living there at the moment. Sorry if anyone takes that the wrong way, but it is a tough, poverty stricken area of town. I agree, I think that the West End is much farther from gentrifying than speculators want to believe. Over-the-Rhine's vacant buildings are far from being fully renovated and there are still many empty lots where single-family homes can be built. Including the hillside streets, there is space for literally hundreds of single-family homes. With 10-20 being built each year, it'll take at least 10 years before space really starts running out and a market will exist for $700,000 homes on...Baymiller St.
September 6, 20186 yr The vacant hillside lots are very expensive to build on though. It's a good first assumption that if a hillside lot is vacant, it's because the house that was there had some sort of stability issue that accelerated its demise. That needs to be addressed in anything new. The foundations and geotechnical engineering and access issues make doing anything small or cheap pretty hard, and the zoning/parking requirements can force you into single-family anyway which means you can't amortize those footprint costs among more units. I looked at a couple vacant lots for a potential client on Mulberry Street and every contractor I talked to was in the $600K range for a relatively simple 1,800 SF home. Go bigger and that cost per SF goes down, even though the total price doesn't. That's Hyde Park/Indian Hill money, but not over-the-top high end either. Except in this case it's going into unexciting concrete, not slate roofs, bluestone terraces, Carrara tile, and Wolf/Sub-Zero appliances.
September 6, 20186 yr Yeah a lot of these hillside lots were previously inhabited and only are empty due to the lack of bedrock and soil erosion / landslide type issues.
September 6, 20186 yr Yeah a lot of these hillside lots were previously inhabited and only are empty due to the lack of bedrock and soil erosion / landslide type issues. A lot of the original hillside homes were wood or otherwise shoddy construction. Few people with the means to do so built a nice house on an unstable hillside in the 1800s. A rule-of-thumb for speculative homebuilders is not to pay more than 10% of a finished home price for the lot. So $70k for a $700k house, for example. In the case of these hillside lots, if your aim is to make money as a spec homebuilder, you would subtract geotechnical work from the offer on the lot. In many cases that work exceeds 10% of the home price, before the lot. But those things don't stop wealthy people from building custom homes on the hillsides that cost much more to build than they can be sold for. That happens all the time. It also happens all the time with extravagant renovations of existing homes.
October 16, 20186 yr Cincinnati nonprofit building $10M facility in West End Tender Mercies Inc., a Cincinnati nonprofit that provides permanent housing and services to homeless adults with severe mental illness, is building a more than $10 million facility in the West End. The organization started construction in August on 821 Flats, a more than 40,600-square-foot building that will have 57 affordable homes. The project is being co-developed with Over-the-Rhine Community Housing. The 821 Flats will include three one-bedroom apartments and 54 efficiency units with modern laundry facilities, common kitchen and dining space, security and support staff, and on-site health services and case management. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/10/16/cincinnati-nonprofit-building-10m-facility-in-west.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 19, 20186 yr Somebody just listed a 25x100 vacant lot on Baymiller for $45k. They ain't gonna get anything close to that. https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1600368/1824-Baymiller-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214 Edited October 23, 20186 yr by jmecklenborg
October 23, 20186 yr ^ Since Friday it dropped to 45% of that! ? Edited October 23, 20186 yr by SleepyLeroy
October 23, 20186 yr 600k pending offer on Dayton St https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/909-Dayton-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214/34247733_zpid/ Edited October 23, 20186 yr by oakiehigh
October 23, 20186 yr Just now, oakiehigh said: 600k pending offer on Dayton St https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/909-Dayton-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214/34247733_zpid/ Home of the guy who owns Cheapside. Not sure if he was just flipping it or if they are moving somewhere else.
October 23, 20186 yr 2 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said: ^ Since Friday it dropped to 45% of that! ? Actually I typed it incorrectly when I posted on Friday. It was listed at $45k originally. I was at work and not giving urban ohio my undivided attention!
March 1, 20196 yr Vision Realty just closed on the strange concrete block building between Wade and Bauer for $750,000. This building occupies enough space for seven single-family homes, so they paid slightly over $100k per "lot". If they are able to build 18-foot or 20-foot attached row houses instead of 20-foot houses with 60" alleys, they will be able to build several more houses.
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