Actually 12 parcels I believe.

Sorry I was at work yesterday and couldn't screw around making a graphic.  Here is what Vision now owns...the red is the former Feast of Love concrete block building that they purchased for $750,000.  Blue is a pair of overgrown lots purchased for $93,000.  Green is a single lot on Central Ave. purchased for $20,000.  The Bauer Ave. lots and Central Ave. lots were transferred from a different Vision LLC which is why the purchase price appears as $0. 

 

 

 

 

Revelation Baptist Church still owns the parking lot along John St. between Wade and Bauer.  On the opposite site of the block, two holdouts remain.  Odd Lots, LLC hasn't budged on selling the NW corner of Central Ave. & Wade.  A certain Lloyd Tate hasn't sold the SW corner of Central Ave. & Bauer.  I have heard through the grapevine that this guy might be ill and unable to represent himself legally. 

 

The Jahovah's Witnesses haven't sold anything, and neither has the foreign family that owns a bunch of the block between Bauer and Liberty, including the various automobile garages. 

 

The other characters who own more than one lot are Central Development, LLC and Wade St. Holdings, LLC, which each own a pair of properties.  

 

 

 

my thoughts and prayers go out to those churches

 

The crooked pastors will pocket all of the money. 

On 3/1/2019 at 9:12 PM, 1400 Sycamore said:

Actually 12 parcels I believe.

 

They might be able to build 12 attached row homes in that space.  Cincinnati zoning permits attached row homes as narrow as 18 feet.  In this case that would mean 9 along Bauer and 3 facing Wade. 

 

 

 

 

A funeral home on Findlay St. over by Baymiller has re-listed its random assortment of West End property:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1633764/930-Findlay-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

Anyone know what's going on with the Heberle Lofts? 

I don't have much faith in this developer.  Website last updated in 2017.   No activity as of late.   The same company has had a rag tag crew interior demoing Bloom one block over.   Not much progress with that building either though all in all.

 

http://heberlelofts.com/

 

http://zadadevelopmentgroup.com/portfolio/dayton-street-historic-district/

Edited August 14, 20195 yr by oakiehigh

Lots of low-level speculative activity in the West End of late.  A real estate professional told me that West End property values doubled in 2019 - however that's akin to the old tallest midget one-liner.

 

Nevertheless, many property owners are attempting to get real money for their derelict West End properties.  Nothing really cheap is left.  So if you want something, get ready to pay for it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 20195 yr by jmecklenborg

A very small vacant lot at 1816 Baymiller St. just sold for $15,000.  That's the highest price paid for a vacant lot in the West End in 100+ years, with the exception of those immediately next to the stadium.  

https://wedge.hcauditor.org/view/re/1320002014500/2018/summary

 

This lot measures only 15x100.  It sold for $100 in 2013 and $2,500 in 2016.  

KHAN RAMEEZ, the Indian Cricketer?!?!?! ?

1 minute ago, oakiehigh said:

KHAN RAMEEZ, the Indian Cricketer?!?!?! ?

 

It's amazing who owns random stuff in Cincinnati.  You scroll through the auditor's listings and you see all sorts of foreign names and you're like...how did this person come to buy this specific item in Cincinnati, of all places.  

2 minutes ago, oakiehigh said:

KHAN RAMEEZ, the Indian Cricketer?!?!?! ?

 

I had a guy from Belgium try to buy the lots I used to own near the soccer stadium.  The guy had $149,000 sitting in his U.S. checking account, somehow.  

25 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

You scroll through the auditor's listings and you see all sorts of foreign names and you're like...how did this person come to buy this specific item in Cincinnati, of all places.  

 

 

Speaking of odd west end owners. Anything going on in the old Lafayette Bloom & Heberle schools?  The were both (i think) purchased by the NYC guy (Zada Development Group) who fancied himself a developer but other than this post i haven't seen anything new. Maybe he is (thankfully) selling? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lafayette-Bloom-Middle-School/1663524163889358?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARBRNF4oWx48R4T0qhXnCWX5cx08JQ8uKqCrPtlEh3SVkbfl1m58FJiOfpTi_25W5UMFJ_53f6YBOyMQ&hc_ref=ARQiWcQEwosbAcyHHnM-cO9m7qU3WPe6psD6_nIB4IG6zybf91FKvRuOhmpXomMVQC4&fref=tag&__xts__[0]=68.ARBbWqmKCILlNqtuKpKaPkDCnogNWi3AQ9DA7CWOkXr_njVItt1KYCtomrzWJ06lUlhvmIHfpYG7i_HUUjA7eOJKSPodpzk04Txbe0o6nmOhZxcKIXViuji_isn_gzeOjIDfNWcFCbTIkKqqNJuwuZHGQ3FVSQ9GDzm0boA0kEvTOJ6VbOc-Norx8w0gcl31Vefb74tkPta-5sfO6GGOGzEtK6vEpi_-X3AS36hflgVwVHYTzGVYuGY1RUKM_JJiNRxEEPEKJOWAKO6ye0WD0AGr-efFv_Shqh5f8DEQMmLq-PLBvA4s2ReJK-Gt

 

This is from 2017 for Bloom http://heberlelofts.com/#CONTACT

Some quick phone pics of a remodel in the 900 block of Dayton St. yesterday.    Sparing no expense with all that copper, but it sure will look good when finished.

Edited September 13, 20195 yr by oakiehigh

On 9/10/2019 at 1:56 PM, SleepyLeroy said:

Speaking of odd west end owners. Anything going on in the old Lafayette Bloom & Heberle schools?  The were both (i think) purchased by the NYC guy (Zada Development Group) who fancied himself a developer but other than this post i haven't seen anything new. Maybe he is (thankfully) selling? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lafayette-Bloom-Middle-School/1663524163889358?__tn__=kC-R&eid=ARBRNF4oWx48R4T0qhXnCWX5cx08JQ8uKqCrPtlEh3SVkbfl1m58FJiOfpTi_25W5UMFJ_53f6YBOyMQ&hc_ref=ARQiWcQEwosbAcyHHnM-cO9m7qU3WPe6psD6_nIB4IG6zybf91FKvRuOhmpXomMVQC4&fref=tag&__xts__[0]=68.ARBbWqmKCILlNqtuKpKaPkDCnogNWi3AQ9DA7CWOkXr_njVItt1KYCtomrzWJ06lUlhvmIHfpYG7i_HUUjA7eOJKSPodpzk04Txbe0o6nmOhZxcKIXViuji_isn_gzeOjIDfNWcFCbTIkKqqNJuwuZHGQ3FVSQ9GDzm0boA0kEvTOJ6VbOc-Norx8w0gcl31Vefb74tkPta-5sfO6GGOGzEtK6vEpi_-X3AS36hflgVwVHYTzGVYuGY1RUKM_JJiNRxEEPEKJOWAKO6ye0WD0AGr-efFv_Shqh5f8DEQMmLq-PLBvA4s2ReJK-Gt

 

This is from 2017 for Bloom http://heberlelofts.com/#CONTACT

 

 

Just a follow up that an LLC in this tiny building in NYC is the owner of the Heberle School in the west end. I hope that they havent given up and are letting it rot away. https://www.google.com/maps/place/539+Cary+Ave,+Staten+Island,+NY+10310/@40.6323061,-74.1198382,3a,44.8y,354.46h,84.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sXNv0zo7Qq0p_N2vVwTkaLA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DXNv0zo7Qq0p_N2vVwTkaLA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dsearch.TACTILE.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D86%26h%3D86%26yaw%3D0.1339118%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c24e7443de6aa7:0x84f5be3ccb5f4c4e!8m2!3d40.632554!4d-74.1198439

...a $400k listing in the 500 block of York St.  This is unprecedented for the West End outside Dayton St.:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1639312/526-York-St-Cincinnati-OH-45214

Really hoping we start getting new construction in the west end soon. There are so many holes to fill in. 

Cincinnati is looking to establish a TIF district in the West End, which means big plans are afoot.  

https://www.wvxu.org/post/cincinnati-looks-expand-economic-development-tool#stream/0

14 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Cincinnati is looking to establish a TIF district in the West End, which means big plans are afoot.  

https://www.wvxu.org/post/cincinnati-looks-expand-economic-development-tool#stream/0

 

Like what?

They're also proposing TIF districts in 15 other locations. This isn't specific to the West End. Mt. Auburn was just notified of this this last week. They're trying to do it before the reevaluation of property (which happens every 3 years, next year).

So are TIF districts sort of enabling districts in the city to get a boost so to speak? For instance the West end and Mt. Auburn are very much on the edge of becoming hot because of the proximity to OTR. 

 

Pleasant Ridge because of its proximity to Oakley. 

 

But what about Price Hill? Are certain areas screwed because they aren't adjacent to hot areas? 

TIF districts generally use a portion of increased property values to fund public infrastructure. To my understanding, if the property values in an area don't increase, no funds go into the TIF, so it doesn't receive any funding. The city can still fund projects in a neighborhood or area without a TIF district, but the TIF funds have to be spent within the district. It provides a dedicated source of funds for public projects.

33 minutes ago, troeros said:

So are TIF districts sort of enabling districts in the city to get a boost so to speak? For instance the West end and Mt. Auburn are very much on the edge of becoming hot because of the proximity to OTR. 

 

Pleasant Ridge because of its proximity to Oakley. 

 

But what about Price Hill? Are certain areas screwed because they aren't adjacent to hot areas? 

 

In OTR and downtown, entities like 3CDC are able to leverage income from TIF's to finance parking garage construction, streetscape improvements and other infrastructure. If you have an entity like that driving development, it will create some momentum. Some of the proposed TIF areas are already developing so they will likely benefit the most. Places like North and South Fairmont will struggle unless projects like Lick Run start driving developer investment.

55 minutes ago, troeros said:

So are TIF districts sort of enabling districts in the city to get a boost so to speak? For instance the West end and Mt. Auburn are very much on the edge of becoming hot because of the proximity to OTR. 

 

Pleasant Ridge because of its proximity to Oakley. 

 

But what about Price Hill? Are certain areas screwed because they aren't adjacent to hot areas? 

 

All three Price Hills already have TIF districts.

Mt. Auburn, the West End, etc., are already "expensive", despite very little new construction.  The price differences in these two neighborhoods between 2017 and 2019 are profound.  

Generally agreed - there are still pockets of Mt. Auburn that are pretty cheap, but it has gotten more expensive int he last 3 years. 

 

They are also proposing TIF districts in South Cumminsville, Roselawn, Spring Grove Village, Mt. Airy, North Fairmound, and South Fairmount which I don't expect to see large gains in. I could definitely be wrong. But having them in place positions them to make improvements in the future when values do start to rise.

28 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Mt. Auburn, the West End, etc., are already "expensive", despite very little new construction.  The price differences in these two neighborhoods between 2017 and 2019 are profound.  

 

Is this basically the "OTR ripple effect" causing the spike, or does the FCC West end stadium play a role as well?

2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Is this basically the "OTR ripple effect" causing the spike, or does the FCC West end stadium play a role as well?

 

It's everywhere.  Prices have doubled pretty much everywhere in the city since 2016.  I was under contract to buy a 2-family in Norwood in early 2016 for $63,000.  That deal fell through but I'd bet that same building could get $110-130k now.  

1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

It's everywhere.  Prices have doubled pretty much everywhere in the city since 2016.  I was under contract to buy a 2-family in Norwood in early 2016 for $63,000.  That deal fell through but I'd bet that same building could get $110-130k now.  

 

So why are there still so many pockets of deep poverty in these areas if home prices are continuing to skyrocket? How do the poor people who reside in those areas continue to live there?

Just because property values rise doesn't mean existing owners have doubled rents for the same product. They aren't going to get double rents just because the building is now worth twice as much.

8 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

So why are there still so many pockets of deep poverty in these areas if home prices are continuing to skyrocket?

 

I think the local media has been asleep and doesn't realize that the whole city is coming back.  They're so focused on the East Side + Mason & West Chester - it's like everything from Norwood west to Indiana doesn't exist.  

 

If trends continue, Cincinnati isn't going to have cheap rentals anymore and home affordability for everyone who doesn't inherit money will be a problem by 2030.  

 

 

 

12 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

It's everywhere.  Prices have doubled pretty much everywhere in the city since 2016.  I was under contract to buy a 2-family in Norwood in early 2016 for $63,000.  That deal fell through but I'd bet that same building could get $110-130k now.  

That’s not expensive, it’s going from ridiculously cheap to average. If you think $130k is expensive then don’t look and home prices in every major city across the globe. 

This is the common issue across the US that only Portland and Minneapolis seem to want to address appropriately.  Unless we want to be a soulless metro that is stuck in its ways, housing prices are going to go up anywhere and everywhere in the metro area.  Build out more density and smaller units to combat the growing demand for living in a great city.

 

I also think that you'll see a lot of the far northern and southern suburbs housing prices drop by 2030. They aren't well-built houses and it seems as though Millenials (if we ever own houses) want to live in first-ring suburbs and get "the best of both worlds."

^You can't build a new house for cheap.  That's the whole dilemma.  So all of the people complaining about builders not building don't realize that it's really tough to build a new house for under $200,000 and it's tough to build an apartment complex where individual units cost less than $150,000 to build. 

 

The only "solution" is to let people put multiple mobile and manufactured homes on vacant lots, but no city has been willing to take that step.  And don't get me started on tiny houses...a tiny house is just a rip-off mobile home. 

New dense buildings need to be built with wood, it's ridiculous that this hasn't caught on, especially amid steel tariffs.

 

The other half of the equation: the housing stock of the 80's-today further out in the metro will be affordable.  New houses have gotten incredibly expensive, yes, but there's a glut of 80's and newer houses in the far northern and southern suburbs that will be had for a bargain, like the 20's-60's houses in inner-ring suburbs a decade ago.  Tastes have changed, smaller houses and yards that are closer to the city are more desirable for young Gen Xers and Millenials with families.  There will be affordable houses available in Cincinnati, but they will be a 35 minute drive from Fountain Square on the weekend.

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/first-of-its-kind-timber-product-to-be-used-in-msu-building/

 

Saw this in the news (I have a connection to MSU), and thought it was pretty awesome. Would love to see this more widely used. 

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

^You can't build a new house for cheap.  That's the whole dilemma.  So all of the people complaining about builders not building don't realize that it's really tough to build a new house for under $200,000 and it's tough to build an apartment complex where individual units cost less than $150,000 to build. 

 

The only "solution" is to let people put multiple mobile and manufactured homes on vacant lots, but no city has been willing to take that step.  And don't get me started on tiny houses...a tiny house is just a rip-off mobile home. 

 

 

Like in Ready Player One where Columbus has trailers stacked eight high

 

 

 

Unless Uncle Sam, the city or some kind of market distortion is involved builders aren't digging a hole for less than 1,600 square feet today.

11 minutes ago, 10albersa said:

New dense buildings need to be built with wood, it's ridiculous that this hasn't caught on, especially amid steel tariffs.

 

The other half of the equation: the housing stock of the 80's-today further out in the metro will be affordable.  New houses have gotten incredibly expensive, yes, but there's a glut of 80's and newer houses in the far northern and southern suburbs that will be had for a bargain, like the 20's-60's houses in inner-ring suburbs a decade ago.  Tastes have changed, smaller houses and yards that are closer to the city are more desirable for young Gen Xers and Millenials with families.  There will be affordable houses available in Cincinnati, but they will be a 35 minute drive from Fountain Square on the weekend.

 

 

"Drive 'Til You Qualify" isn't just for the big cities any more.

7 minutes ago, seaswan said:

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/first-of-its-kind-timber-product-to-be-used-in-msu-building/

 

Saw this in the news (I have a connection to MSU), and thought it was pretty awesome. Would love to see this more widely used. 

 

I agree the full timber framed buildings are awesome. I don't think they're (yet) cost-competitive. But maybe that will change in the future.

They are currently building a new 5-story suburban-style hotel in Canal Winchester using a large amount of wood in the structure. I was floored when I saw them doing that. For as long as I can remember those were concrete and steel.

If people want truly cheap houses we'd have to go back to a single bathroom, no AC, minimal electric, no basement, a wood-burning stove, and no insulation.

 

So basically one of those sheds sitting in the Home Depot parking lot with a toilet in one corner and a wood-burning stove in the other.   

20 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

They are currently building a new 5-story suburban-style hotel in Canal Winchester using a large amount of wood in the structure. I was floored when I saw them doing that. For as long as I can remember those were concrete and steel.

 

In 2015 the International Building Code was updated to allow mid-rise Cross Laminated Timber buildings. These buildings can be built cheaper than traditional steel and concrete buildings, which is why developers pushed hard to update building codes. Greater Greater Washington has a great article on its value that can be found here:

https://ggwash.org/view/38268/its-about-to-get-easier-to-build-mid-rises-in-dc 

26 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

If people want truly cheap houses we'd have to go back to a single bathroom, no AC, minimal electric, no basement, a wood-burning stove, and no insulation.

 

So basically one of those sheds sitting in the Home Depot parking lot with a toilet in one corner and a wood-burning stove in the other.   

 

This is deviating from West End development... and I don't know what point you're trying to make. It isn't helpful to the conversation. Or maybe you're trying to make a joke, and I don't get it. Of course, you can live cheaper if you forego a house all together. Buy a tent for and live in the woods! 

^It's expensive to build houses and it's expensive to rehab them.  If you want to rehab a cheap house yourself, get ready to take a year off work.  But all of these people out there think that there is simply a "supply" problem without acknowledging that real people have to physically rehab or physically build that "supply".  

 

At least you can still buy cheap land in Cincinnati, so you might be able to build a house at some later date on land you already own, but likely not for much longer.  There are without at doubt 50,000 vacant residential lots in the city limits, but 100,000-150,000 new residents in the city will send those prices through the roof.  100,000-150,000 new residents hardly changes the character of the metro but within the city limits it would have a profound effect.  

24 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

^It's expensive to build houses and it's expensive to rehab them.  If you want to rehab a cheap house yourself, get ready to take a year off work.  But all of these people out there think that there is simply a "supply" problem without acknowledging that real people have to physically rehab or physically build that "supply".  

 

At least you can still buy cheap land in Cincinnati, so you might be able to build a house at some later date on land you already own, but likely not for much longer.  There are without at doubt 50,000 vacant residential lots in the city limits, but 100,000-150,000 new residents in the city will send those prices through the roof.  100,000-150,000 new residents hardly changes the character of the metro but within the city limits it would have a profound effect.  

 

That doesn't mean there's not a supply problem. It just means the solution is complex. It can be true that it is expensive to build and rehab houses and that there is also a supply problem. 

 

Also, it's going to be quite awhile before Cincinnati adds an additional 100,000-150,000 residents. At the very high end of estimates, we might've added 10,000-15,000 this decade. So at that growth rate, expect it to take 100 years. 

 

8 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

They are currently building a new 5-story suburban-style hotel in Canal Winchester using a large amount of wood in the structure. I was floored when I saw them doing that. For as long as I can remember those were concrete and steel.

 

 

Here's a really good article I ran across a few months ago describing the rise of stick construction.

It also does a good job explaining how and why the recent building trend has gone towards larger block style apartment buildings in cities vs. pre-recession suburban build:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-02-13/why-america-s-new-apartment-buildings-all-look-the-same

 

Stick construction is really cost competitive nowadays, and steel prices probably make it even more so. 

Which makes me wonder why we are seeing so many of these go up as apartment units and so few go up as condominiums. This style of construction is affordable and in demand, even if it has its hazards outlined in the article. The downside is how these buildings will age.

 

It appears some places are putting pressure on this type of construction. I'm thinking for this development in Dayton, Weyland Properties decided to stay one step ahead of the city and build with steel and concrete instead to ensure approval for their building right next to train tracks:

 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/new-apartments-proposed-near-oregon-district/yQ2cO1Kc0FjYKjduAF8tIK/

 

Because the 503 will be constructed using concrete slabs, it will have a different feel than “stick-built apartments” and will be made to last and to be more energy efficient, Weyland said. The development is expected to take up the entire grassy site, which is bordered to the north by the railroad tracks and to the south by East Fourth Street.

 

Interesting discussion but waaaay off topic lol

It does tie to the fact that the West End used to be full of workforce housing. Now it's not. The reason it didn't get replaced by now is due to high construction costs.