Apparently theres a study going on (or finishing up) on the economic/travle impact of restoring ferry service from Cleveland to Canada.

 

http://www.portofcleveland.com/pdf/FerryStudy.pdf

 

It'll most likely be a high speed ferry similar to the Lake Ontario one.  Its destination is Port Stanley, Ontario

 

 

how quaint...

 

Although the real issue is to dimish the travel time to Toronto

 

 

and to get rid of all the truck traffic in Cleveland... also could be for bored college students to take a random trip to Canada... :cool:

i would crap myself if that happened, i remember it being discussed like a year ago...

 

Anywho, my best bud lives in london, and it takes me 5 hours now to get there........

Why does it not show how long it would take to get from shore to shore. It sounds neat though.

well you're typical old fashioned ferry (i.e. M.V. Jimaan or M.V. Pelee Islander) would take about 3h 45m at the very least........

Well theres that new Lake Ontario Ferry, i think it takes like an hour to cross that so Lake Erie would be roughly the same time.

 

And im pretty sure its in the near future that this could happen since theres a new section of lakefront being developed at the end of this year. But who knows

Anything to be closer to Toronto. Thats one great city.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1085650414226450.xml

 

update on the Ferry study. If all goes well then we'll have one in service within 2 years

yay!

This was in the paper today. Isn't it basically a go if the economics can be worked out (that is, if it can be shown that it will turn a profit)?

More details on it

 

Cleveland-to-Ontario ferry on the horizon?

The Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority is hoping to launch a giant ferry with capacity for 400 people and 250 cars per trip, making at least one round-trip daily from Cleveland to Port Stanley, Ontario. The authority says the proposed ferry would be modeled after a cruise ship with restaurants and movie theaters.

wow, sounds like one hell of a boat! Would love to see Ohio and Ontario form closer ties. I'm sure most people forget that Ontario even borders Ohio.

And how will they pay for this ferry becouse ive seen one on the net and they are not cheap at all and it really want be cheap with resturants and a movie theater on board, more than 10million without question......

Just as Cleveland begins interviewing potential operators for a ferry across Lake Erie to Canada, another Great Lakes ferry service has docked its ship indefinitely.

 

Less than three months in operation, the ballyhooed Rochester-to-Toronto ferry halted service this week.

 

Major debt, extensive red tape, high fuel costs, government fees and delays in permission to carry lucrative freight trucks sunk the venture, according to a statement from Canadian American Transportation Systems.

 

Despite that ferry's troubles, proponents of a trans-Erie ferry from Cleveland to Port Stanley, Ontario, remain undeterred.

 

"We know what the costs are and what the market is," said Gary Failor, executive director of the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority.

 

The port authority hopes to finish interviews with seven interested ferry operators by the end of the month and launch the service in April 2006.

 

A port-commissioned study considered potential obstacles and concluded that the ferry could make money, Failor said. Unlike in Rochester, where the state of New York subsidized the ferry, the operator would assume all financial risk. That, Failor said, will dissuade any operators who don't have either the experience or finances to make the venture successful.

 

Cleveland's plans also include a more "practical vessel," as opposed to the high-speed Rochester ferry, which had movie theaters and duty-free shops, Failor said. And truck traffic is greater around Lake Erie than Lake Ontario, he said. Commercial truckers will find the ferry attractive because it will save them travel time as well as offering on-board customs checks, Failor said.

 

The Rochester-Toronto service hopes to return to business as early as next spring. In the meantime, there's an example of a successful ferry operation to the west.

 

A ferry linking Milwaukee to Muskegon, Mich., for example, also began operating in June. The operator has canceled some trips because of rough weather, but passenger interest has been higher than anticipated.

 

On Friday, the local port authority board voted to extend a contract for Theis Marine Consulting by six months. Stuart Theis, who has worked on the ferry project for the past 18 months, will now focus on negotiating with operators.

 

While plans are moving ahead, some major issues remain. The Canadian government, for example, plans to transfer ownership of the port at Port Stanley to a private company, which could complicate negotiations.

 

And the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority needs money to build a ferry terminal on Dock 28 and has its hopes set on winning federal grants.

 

To read the port's ferry feasibility study, go to www.portofcleveland.com.

 

"ballyhooed"??

Bedbugs and Ballyhoo? (Sorry - referencing the song by Echo and the Bunnymen)

Buffalo and bison

Bison and buffalo

Cannonball and rifle

Rifle and cannonball

That’s the way the thunder rumbles

That’s the way the thunder rumbles

Rumbles...

 

:D

so when do i get to hear how long the trip will take?

 

as of right now, it takes me 5 hours by car to get to london, ON (just 35 minutes due north of port stanley)

Dutch firm is winning ferry contender

Tuesday, September 28, 2004

Sarah Hollander

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

 

A Dutch company has been chosen as the best candidate to revive ferry service in Cleveland.

 

Seven companies submitted proposals for a Lake Erie ferry between Cleveland and Port Stanley, Ontario. On Monday, the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority announced Royal Wagenborg as its first choice.

 

   

 

[email protected], 216-999-4816

!!!!!Ger van Langen, managing director of passenger services for Wagenborg, said the company will begin working on the project immediately. The goal is to begin service in the spring of 2006. !!!!!

Can't wait. It would be a different experience to go to Canada from Cleveland without having to drive 5 hours. I would say that most of the people on this board have never been on the ferry from Cleveland (unless you're older than 50), cuz it hasn't been here for 50 years. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

As soon as thats in service im gonna be trying it out.

It will be interesting to see how much business this service gets. It is cool there will be a ferry.

 

Has anyone ever been to Port Stanley?

Damn straight I will be trying it out....to get to TO from Dayton you have to drive up to Detroit, then up through Ontario ...this cuts alot of travel distance, i think...

...the neat thing is that the terminal appears to be right downtown,too (it will be, won't it?)

 

Heres a bit more on Royal Wagenborg...

 

corporate website...in English, Dutch, and German.

 

....& they apparently are already involved with Great Lakes/Seaway shipping, according to this article from the Duluth port director

 

"Royal Wagenborg, a Dutch Shipping company, has already initiated the process, introducing its small, shallow-draft 9,000-ton coastal traders to Seaway service. And, as predicted, this has opened up new markets. To further refine the process and better leverage the concept, the Great Lakes shipping community needs to work closely with the Europeans to refine ship designs and marine technology".

 

on edit, after surfing around the corporate site, it looks like their passenger ferry buisness is from the mainland to two of the Frisian Islands....crossing the Waddensee. Not exactly like Lake Erie, as this is a very tidal stretch of water, with alot of sandbars and mudflats. But it also means the firm has experience with alot of leisure travel and holiday crowds as these islands are sort of resort areas.

De Wagenborg vloot bestaat thans uit ± 140 moderne schepen. De specifieke scheepsgevens vindt u in de vlootlijst. U heeft rechts op het scherm de mogelijkheid om in de vlootlijst te zoeken. U kunt zoeken op de naam van een schip of op één of meerdere kenmerken van een schip. Wanneer u op zoek klikt, zonder iets te hebben ingevuld, krijgt u de volledige lijst van schepen te zien.

i have been to port stanley, nice enough area, but nothing extraordinary.

 

Its about 25 minutes south of London, ON the midway point between Detroit and Toronto. London's a nice happy town, but once again nothing special. I guess you could hop on the VIA Rail to toronto then........

Maybe if Port Stanley were to become conveniently accessible from Cleveland, it would become fun and exciting like Akron is. :lol:

so you want to extend I-77 to port stanley?

so you want to extend I-77 to port stanley?

 

I hadn't thought of that, but it's a great idea! Make the ferry part of the interstate highway system, and maybe the feds will fund it.

What's going on with this thing?  If it's going somewhere, let's hear an update!

 

Then I can move it to "Transportation".  :D

yeah, i'm getting sick of driving to london.........

You probably could right now. I think the lake is pretty well frozen over. But don't be surprised if your life insurance policy is canceled upon your return (if you return)....

 

KJP

Super way cool...and probably cheaper than the bridge would have been!

I will definitely use this service! It makes going to T.O. that much easier

and oh yeah...think of the skyline shots of Cleveland on the Lake..oh yeah, thats right, uh huh!

I may use the service for the novelty of it, especially if there is a bus connection from Port Stanley to the VIA station in London (it has 14 trains a day to/from Toronto at 95 mph top speeds, plus eight trains a day each way to/from Windsor). But, the boat will be slow -- four hours from Cleveland to Port Stanley, not including customs inspections at either end. A boat like the Put-in-Bay Jet Express could probably get you from Cleveland to Port Stanley in half the time.

 

Here is Port Stanley, the largest "city" on the north shore of Lake Erie, which I drove along its entire length in August 2003. The grain tower at right is on the dock that the ferry would use. The tourist railroad uses the remaining segment of the rail line that once went 25 miles north to London, and was once an electrified interurban that carried passengers from lake steamers. It's a very cute town, but there's not much there.

 

_________________________

 

Here's the London VIA station, the fourth-busiest in all of Canada (a half-hour north of Port Stanley). This new station (built in 2001 at a cost of $7 million) sees 400,000 passengers a year (10 times that of Cleveland's Amtrak station). Yet it serves a city having 300,000 people in the center city and another 100,000 in the suburbs. Of course, having 14 trains a day to Cleveland's four makes a big difference!

 

_________________________

 

London's station is at the south end of the virbant business district, and is an easy walk to the convention center, numerous hotels, restaurants and a downtown galleria that would make Cleveland, Columbus or Cincinnati brim with pride. Needless to say, if those three Ohio cities had a train station like this, they would be just as proud!

 

 

I hope there will be connecting bus service between Port Stanley and the London train station (and maybe someday a train between Port Stanley and Toronto!).

 

KJP

kjp et all

 

the windsor-london line still only averages around 63 mph though......

 

and 14? that seems a tad high? but i'm too lazy to visit viarail.com.......

Cincinnati's is in the union terminal and has been for about 5 or so years now.

Pope,

 

Actually, an average speed of 63 mph is pretty respectable. Compare it to average speeds for Amtrak trains across Ohio, which are about 10 mph less. While Ohio railways, which have Amtrak operations on them, feature welded rails, double-tracks, and advanced signal systems, the route between Windsor and London offers only a single track, much of which is jointed rail and an older signal system.

 

And, you're right, I forgot that Amtrak dropped running a Chicago - Toronto train east of Port Huron, Mich. last year. So the number of total trains between London and Toronto has dropped to 12. There are four round trips a day between Windsor - London -Toronto, 1 round trip between Sarnia - London - Toronto, and a weekday local round trip between London - Kitchener - Toronto. So, on weekends, the number of trains in each direction drops to 10.

 

Go to:

http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/forfaits/corr5_b.pdf (for Windsor - London - Toronto schedules)

http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/forfaits/corr6_2b.pdf (for Sarnia - London - Toronto schedules)

 

KJP

 

 

Ah, this was probably the confusion - you said, "Of course, having 14 trains a day to Cleveland's four makes a big difference!"  But you meant London to Toronto, right?

Actually, I was referring to London being served by 14 trains a day vs. Cleveland being served by only four trains a day. But, yes, as recently as last year, all 14 of London's trains went to/from Toronto.

 

If there was a jet express boat from Cleveland to Port Stanley, it could travel the 70-mile distance in less than three hours. Allow an hour for customs and weather-related delays. A train direct from Port Stanley to Toronto could make the run in 2 1/2 hours or even a little less. That's 6 1/2 hours, and they might be able to knock more than a half-hour off that between the boat and train trips to get it down to less than six hours.

 

How's this.....

 

NORTHBOUND

(read down)     Trip 1  Trip 2

Cleveland    dp   700a   430p

Port Stanley ar   930a   700p

Port Stanley dp 1030a   800p

London        dp 1100a   830p

Toronto       ar  1245p 1015p

 

SOUTHBOUND

(read down)     Trip 3  Trip 4

Toronto       dp   730a   500p

London        dp   915a   645p

Port Stanley ar   945a   715p

Port Stanley dp 1030a   800p

Cleveland    ar    100p 1030p

 

Southbound, there could be a shorter layover at Port Stanley because most customs inspections would likely be done upon arrival at Cleveland. The cool thing is that the train would be able to pull up right next to the boat, as the tracks lead right on to the dock at Port Stanley, and you could do two round trips with one boat and two sets of trains. After looking at the fares for the Put-In-Bay Jet Express and VIA Rail Canada, I'm going to "guess" that a round-trip fare of $150 might apply (with an extra bicycle-carrying fee of, say, $5).

 

So, would enough Ohioans choose this way to get to Toronto?

 

KJP

 

Sorry, I misread the line, you made perfect sense the first time and I just missed it...

 

That seems like a reasonable schedule.  Of course, with the current plan, it's more likely to be a 7am departure from Cleveland and a noon departure from Port Stanley, thus arriving in Toronto at 2:15pm - that will make for a really long travel day, especially with all the transfers.

 

I'd probably be more excited about the service for getting to the Shakespeare Festival in Stratford, ON.  That's an amazing city if you've never been, and what's considered the best Shakespeare in the western hemisphere...no need for a car once you're there...that might make a very cool co-branding promotion for the ferry and the festival...

 

Of course, since I live in Cincinnati, I'd probably just drive anyway...but it's still super cool...

yeah, stratford is a beautiful town, while the larger part of downtown is geared towards the festival tourists, you don't get the vibe of toursit town or tourist traps......

as for a link between PS and ldot, you'd think they would have to have one. I mean, its port stanley, why would i ride for hours just to go to port stanley?

I'm pondering "what if the jet express were in addition to the ferry?" Obviously, they wouldn't do this right off the bat, but if the ferry is successful...

 

It would still cost some $25 million to $35 million to rebuild the tracks between Port Stanley and London to 80 mph train speeds. Add another $2 million to $5 million for a transfer station at the Port Stanley dock. A 100-seat, push-pull train would cost about $5 million each x three trains (one held in reserve for maintenance cycles). And I have no idea how much a jet express boat costs, but they would probably need two of them (again, for maintenance cycling). I'll assume $5 million for each. That's a range of $52 million to $65 million -- not bad considering it opens up a 250-mile travel route.

 

KJP

I'd ride it, even with the slower speeds and a bus transfer Port Stanley - London. Compared with driving, it would be a lot more relaxing and interesting.

 

Now, if we could just get a passenger train on the old NKP route (now NS) between downtown Fort Wayne and Cleveland. I could walk to the depot from my house in about 20 minutes, and make a car-free, enjoyable trip to delightful Toronto.

yeah, considering it takes 5-ish hrs to get to london by car from cleveland.......

Well, is this ferry thing really going to happen?

^ When it happens, you'll know.

 

Rob, you can take a relatively car-free trip to Toronto. Take a taxi to Waterloo, a train to Toledo, an Amtrak Thruway or Greyhound bus to Detroit, take the tunnel bus to the Windsor VIA station, and a train from there! Hey, I didn't say it was easy, just that it could be done....sorta.

 

KJP

^wow that would be painful.....

Take a taxi to Waterloo, a train to Toledo, an Amtrak Thruway or Greyhound bus to Detroit, take the tunnel bus to the Windsor VIA station, and a train from there! Hey, I didn't say it was easy, just that it could be done....sorta.

 

KJP

 

For a few years after Amtrak pulled out of Fort Wayne, they provided a bus connection to Waterloo and Garrett using a chartered bus from Summit Coach. For a short time it left from downtown, but soon it moved to a shopping center in the north 'burbs. I did use it once; I took transit, requiring a transfer, to the shopping center to catch the shuttle to Garrett. It could have been OK, but it wasn't pleasant; the driver was a surly old bastard who probably pulled that run because he was at the bottom of the pecking order on the roster, and he smelled faintly of alcohol. He made no attempt to conceal the fact that he resented handling passengers' baggage, and he was an angry, aggressive driver.

Here's an update from the 3/19/05 Plain Dealer:

 

 

Canadian law is next problem for ferry plan

Sarah Hollander

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

A Canadian trade act limiting foreign business has been targeted by Cleveland port officials as the No. 1 roadblock to meeting a 2006 deadline for a proposed ferry service to Port Stanley, Ontario.

 

Royal Wagenborg, the Dutch company chosen to run the service, says it can't make the multimillion-dollar investment required without resolving interpretation issues with the Coasting Trade Act.

 

 

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: [email protected], 216-999-4816

 

© 2005 The Plain Dealer. Used with permission.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1111228379177592.xml