Posted February 17, 20169 yr TN 840 is probably the longest grade separated non-looping highway bypass in the United States. It is one half of what would be the longest ring road in the United States should it ever be finished. Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_State_Route_840 It is a divided 4-lane interstate-type highway that forms a semicircle around the city's southern periphery, more than 25 miles from DT Nashville, so much farther away than any ring road in the Midwest (I-270, I-275, etc.). It connects I-40 with I-40, with system interchanges at I-24 and I-65. Interchanges with local roads are infrequent since the area is so thinly populated, and to date there are zero gas stations or fast food restaurants within sight of any of the local interchanges. This is partly because the area's population is so low, partly because traffic on the highway is pretty low, and partly because zoning is in place that keeps it from being built near several of the interchanges. There are a few large warehouses on the east side of the bypass (Amazon, etc.), which is the oldest part of the bypass (opened around 1999), but basically zero development whatsoever along the 50 miles between I-40 (west) and the I-24 interchange. This appears to be changing, since Nashville's overheated housing market is finally compelling developers to prep and subdivide property. There are no major engineering features to speak of other than various rock cuts. No bridges, no tunnels, no toll booths. No state lines are crossed, so just one DOT built this, and it built it almost completely with state money in order to avoid the federal review process. It is upheld as a model for Cincinnati's recently proposed Eastern Bypass. Read about that here: http://www.cincyeasternbypass.com Unlike TN 840, the proposed Eastern Bypass would require large bridges over the Licking and Ohio Rivers and earthworks in NKY far larger than anything in TN. Also, it would interchange with no interstate highways, although there are of course long-term plans to improve 32 into I-74. These photos are ordered from west to east, starting in the area of the TN 100 interchange. I didn't get any photos of either of the I-40 interchanges. This is the super-hard rock that prevents Nashville-area homes from having basements. There are also only 2 or 3 underground parking garages in DT Nashville because of the expense associated with breaking up this rock. It is also speculated that subway construction is prohibitively expensive in the area. Bonus...all of this is I-65, not 840: Near Cool Springs Mall: Extra Special Bonus...the terminal station of the Music City Star commuter rail in Lebanon, TN, about 30 miles from DT Nashville:
February 17, 20169 yr It's like looking through an AARoads page! "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 17, 20169 yr what is this, some sort of pitch for another eastern cinci bypass? there is no way ohio should be building highways anymore. the population has flatlined since the 1950s and the state is overbuilt for them anyway. besides, it would be interstate which would complicate things more than this example, so i dont see how its a model. very nice to see the newish nashville commuter rail though. how is it -- did you ride it?
February 17, 20169 yr what is this, some sort of pitch for another eastern cinci bypass? there is no way ohio should be building highways anymore. the population has flatlined since the 1950s and the state is overbuilt for them anyway. besides, it would be interstate which would complicate things more than this example, so i dont see how its a model. very nice to see the newish nashville commuter rail though. how is it -- did you ride it? I agree we shouldn't be building more and this model isn't one we should be following, but the comment on our population is bogus. We might not be booming, but we didn't flatline. In 1950 Ohio had 7,946,627 people and the estimate for 2015 is 11,613,423. That's a 46% increase from 1950 to today. Hardly "flatlined."
February 17, 20169 yr what is this, some sort of pitch for another eastern cinci bypass? there is no way ohio should be building highways anymore. the population has flatlined since the 1950s and the state is overbuilt for them anyway. besides, it would be interstate which would complicate things more than this example, so i dont see how its a model. very nice to see the newish nashville commuter rail though. how is it -- did you ride it? There is an recent application out there to "upgrade" TN840 to I-840.
February 17, 20169 yr It's like looking through an AARoads page! Yes, but with more pictures of real estate signs than BGSs.
February 17, 20169 yr what is this, some sort of pitch for another eastern cinci bypass? there is no way ohio should be building highways anymore. the population has flatlined since the 1950s and the state is overbuilt for them anyway. besides, it would be interstate which would complicate things more than this example, so i dont see how its a model. very nice to see the newish nashville commuter rail though. how is it -- did you ride it? I agree we shouldn't be building more and this model isn't one we should be following, but the comment on our population is bogus. We might not be booming, but we didn't flatline. In 1950 Ohio had 7,946,627 people and the estimate for 2015 is 11,613,423. That's a 46% increase from 1950 to today. Hardly "flatlined." ha you are right -- i read that one from the wrong line, but ohio population has slowed if not flatlined in recent decades. the state is certainly ripe for more immigration of any stripe.
February 18, 20169 yr Is there a reason why so many highways have such large grass medians? Seems so wasteful...
February 18, 20169 yr They don't want cars bashing off of Jersey barriers (or today, single-plane) and back into the travel lanes.
February 18, 20169 yr I can't believe you took photos of what I described to my traveling mate as one of the most boring highways I had ever driven on. TN 840 has zero remarkable features - no high flying interchanges, no awesome bridges, nothing. In reply to mrnyc[/member] , Tennessee's population has hardly flatlined - it's a state with an exploding population and Nashville is a very hot market. The southern fringes of the metro is growing rapidly because of GM's Spring Hill plant (former Saturn facility) and Nissan. If you've ever been by Toyota's massive facility in Georgetown, Kentucky, where 7 vehicles are manufactured, employing over 7,000, then you'd understand the spinoffs that come with that. TN 840 was needed because there was no bypass. I-440 used an old railroad right-of-way and only goes around downtown - and there were planning studies for a bypass out by Brentwood, but that area has become far too dense to really place a highway through today. The only open land left was just south of Franklin. Complicating the route is the Percy Priest Reservoir to the east, in which the state saved a lot of money and environmental planning by routing it south of the lake. The northern bypass isn't happening any time soon because it's just not yet needed. TN 155 handles traffic well for now, and was recently upgraded to eight lanes on the east side by Gaylord. It's also newer - the western segment opened around 1985 and the western I-40 interchange was made free-flowing only in the past few years. TN has also built a similar bypass around Memphis - initially as TN 385. The eastern and northern segments of TN 385 have been redesignated I-269 even though it won't connect to I-69 in Mississippi for another year. Knoxville had a northern bypass planned but it's extreme cost put the plan on hold.
February 18, 20169 yr New freeways are often boring becuase they don't see the development along them that highways that opened in say, the '60s did.
February 18, 20169 yr Sherman you are correct -- one of the big problems with the Eastern Bypass's reverence for 840 is that Nashville did not previously have a real bypass. Nothing like what I-275 is. My guess is that 840 is functioning not really as a city bypass for I-40 thru traffic so much as a shortcut for I-65 and I-24 traffic that was destined for either I-40 east or west. The Eastern Bypass will be a redundant bypass and won't be a shortcut for many people.
February 18, 20169 yr I can't believe they are even considering an eastern bypass jmecklenborg[/member], considering that only a few years ago, Kentucky studied a southern bypass of I-275. It was considered too expensive to construct and tolling it might not bring in the revenues needed for major bridges over the Ohio and Licking rivers - and many valley fills. Without Kentucky's support, Ohio's proposal won't go anywhere. Adding to that, Kentucky's gas tax declined because it's pegged to inflation. Several projects on the 6-year STIP had to be put on hold because of that. The state also all but cancelled I-66 through southern Kentucky, including a planned route between Somerset and London. That had major political power (Hal Rogers) - but even that's not going anywhere.
February 18, 20169 yr I can't believe they are even considering an eastern bypass jmecklenborg[/member], considering that only a few years ago, Kentucky studied a southern bypass of I-275. It was considered too expensive to construct and tolling it might not bring in the revenues needed for major bridges over the Ohio and Licking rivers - and many valley fills. Without Kentucky's support, Ohio's proposal won't go anywhere. Adding to that, Kentucky's gas tax declined because it's pegged to inflation. Several projects on the 6-year STIP had to be put on hold because of that. The state also all but cancelled I-66 through southern Kentucky, including a planned route between Somerset and London. That had major political power (Hal Rogers) - but even that's not going anywhere. Sherman Cahal[/member] You adeptly point out why it only exists in the dreams of suburban homebuilders. It will never happen. And I don't mean it will never happen like people in 1960 would have said the Butler Regional Highway would never happen. I mean it will NEVER happen. :yap:
February 18, 20169 yr It seems that the original alignment for TN 840 at I-40 east was shifted to the east side of Lebanon. The entire northern loop is now on indefinite hold due to a lack of money and environmental concerns - it goes through a lot of watersheds and some very hilly terrain. Considering that the state can't even build I-69 along US 51, even though states to the north and south are building their portions out, TN 840 will likely never be finished in our lifetimes.
February 25, 20169 yr So wait, the proposed north arch won't directly connect to the south on the eastern side? How odd.
February 25, 20169 yr So wait, the proposed north arch won't directly connect to the south on the eastern side? How odd. I didn't get a photo of it but on the west side the road continues for a few hundred feet north of I-40, and there is even an overpass for a ramp over the non-functioning expressway below. On the east side of town, that interchange with I-40 doesn't appear to have a provision to continue northward. https://www.google.com/maps/dir//Interstate+40,+Burns,+TN+37029/@36.0226747,-87.3023227,13678m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x8864a304633706b9:0x7d39d176dc6adf61!2m2!1d-87.2673033!2d36.0226798 What's wild is that I know of one other example of TDOT doing this. TDOT is fond of disguising the massive implications of their projects by calling expressways "parkways", and I was living in Knoxville when the first phase of the James White Parkway was completed, and lived just off its temporary dead-end. Well 15 years later that's still the dead-end, and there is an overpass there that travels over a non-functioning section of expressway. https://www.google.com/maps/dir//Baker+Creek/@35.9461562,-83.9312325,13691m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x885c179b470fd1b9:0x29552463bfa8fb58!2m2!1d-83.8962131!2d35.9461613
February 27, 20169 yr Speaking of parkways, I found it kind of refreshing that your photos didn't show any gas stations or other auto-oriented development. Almost all of the interchanges and most of the total length of interstates in the Cincinnati area are surrounded by development.
February 27, 20169 yr It's cause the Cincinnati freeways are old! Developers used to go bonkers when freeways opened in the old days. Now they themselves have to propose the development before the interchange opens -- it has to be their idea or they're not interested. A lot of times they're willing to pay for it if it is an area they are seriously interested in rather than something speculatively proposed by a DOT. See Tuttle Crossing, Polaris and Gemini in Columbus. Business did ask for the Portsmouth bypass... but it was Russian steel companies that bailed out on their new mills in the area 10 years ago. No other businesses except for members of the PPP that is involved with the Portsmouth bypass care about it except for trucking companies.
February 27, 20169 yr For example, Reagan Cross-County is the newest freeway in Cincinnati. It seems most development predates the limited-access aspects of it.
February 27, 20169 yr Speaking of parkways, I found it kind of refreshing that your photos didn't show any gas stations or other auto-oriented development. Almost all of the interchanges and most of the total length of interstates in the Cincinnati area are surrounded by development. Part of the area is zoned "preserved rural" or something like that, and then there is another interchange that has special "840" zoning that prevents typical sprawl. But also almost nobody lives out in the area that this road travels through (yet) and there really isn't much traffic on it.
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