Our cultural institutions would have died if people would have had to walk across the street instead of using the skywalk?

Really, if something is dependent on a skywalk for survival, it should just die already

Old people have lots of money and are unbelievably fickle.  They pick favorite casinos based on the parking garage layout, for example. 

The opera, ballet, and symphony are subsidized by gifts and grants to the tune of about 65% of their program service expenses. That handful of white hairs who park their Audi's and Benzes in the garage and walk across the skywalk are the folks that make it possible. Without them, Music Hall would be a great place for the annual choir festival. And that would be about the extent of it.

 

Thoughtless urban planners put up skywalks all over the City many years ago and ran all of the little street shops out of business. I was around back then and do not think there was a squeal from anyone, including the academics. So, this last vestige of a citywide system can just stay put until the bigwigs are all dead and their money squandered by the non-profits they leave it to. And then we can get about letting actual citizens vote their music preferences with their wallets. Music Hall is already a museum of lost performance arts. So, unless the current crop of fans of opera, ballet and symphonic music can make a few million dollars each that they will leave to the non profits, consider Music Hall a temporary venue.

Opera, ballet and symphony music has been popular for hundreds of years and hundreds of years from now it will still be popular.  You're kidding yourself if you think those arts are just going to die off with the baby boomers. 

Actually, it is not even the "boomers" who support the opera, ballet and symphony. It is the generation before the boomers. And, if these performances remain as popular as they are right now as far as ticket sales, which I doubt, collectively they will need about $20,000,000 per year in gifts to remain afloat. Where would that come from?

I think the younger generations (Millennials, Gen X, etc) see more value in the arts than the Boomers do. Keep in mind, the Boomers are the ones who largely abandoned cities and cultural institutions in them. If I had to guess, I would bet the current elderly large donors can keep these institutions afloat while the younger generations acquire wealth and support them both through philanthropy and ticketing. The CAC recently became free because of 50 people between the age of 25 and 45 who valued what it stood for and made donations to eliminate the fee.

 

I think this type of group philanthropy is going to become more popular.

 

Also, I would fully expect the symphony, ballet, opera, etc to begin to innovate more and push the boundaries of the traditional performances. This will entice the younger generations to explore the arts more as well.

On WCPO this morning the CSO announced a plan to admit affirmative action musicians of color to meet what the CSO claims is an audience demand to see people play "who look more like they do."

 

Maybe this will solve the attendance problem the CSO faces.

Also, I would fully expect the symphony, ballet, opera, etc to begin to innovate more and push the boundaries of the traditional performances. This will entice the younger generations to explore the arts more as well.

 

They've already done that.  That's what The Pops was back in the 80s and what Lumenocity is now.  There have been many, many attempts over the years by high culture to extend out into the masses and it has never created a tidal wave of interest.  Our art  museum is free now and I doubt that it has motivated much new attendance.

 

It turns out that over 10,000 years of evolution we've just now discovered what people wanted all along -- to just take photos of themselves withe their phones.  Hey everybody look at me!

 

 

Our art  museum is free now and I doubt that it has motivated much new attendance.

 

Well they substituted the admission fee for the parking fee, so it kind of washes out.  At least you have options now, either taking the bus, or parking on the former streetcar right-of-way along Art Museum Drive, though it is a bit of a hike to the main entrance from there.  You can actually park on Eden Park Drive near the Park Board's building and walk up the steps to the Art Museum, though I don't recall ever seeing anyone parked there before. 

I was at the Art Museum last week and it was packed, and now the parking is free too.  I'm over 50 now and see myself attending many more of these classical type events.  If the city did not have these amenities, I would think about moving.  Despite what "1400 Syc" says, these institutions are vital to a successful urban culture, and always will be.

I will second the importance of these institutions in our city. I too would not find Cincinnati as livable without the Symphony, Ballet, Opera, and Museums. It adds to the rich culture of this city.

 

I was at the art museum this weekend as well, and I don’t think they could have fit many more people in the galleries, especially those that wanted to see the Van Gogh exhibit (there was a two hour wait, at times, to see the show). Thousands and Thousands

 

In addition, this weekend our symphony is hosting one of the premier symphonic music festivals in the United States. The MusicNOW festival will bring in younger audiences and always is a great concert. If you head to the Taft this weekend you will see some of the greatest new composers in the world and hear music that no one has heard before, since most have been written in the past year or so (some are a few years old but making U.S. or Cincinnati premiers.

 

Our orchestra is on the cutting edge of symphonic music, and I for one am proud of its place among the great orchestras of America.

 

Of course, the Cincinnati Art museum is a vital asset to the community. Its attendees are diverse. It is a teaching institution as well. Nothing at all like the opera, ballet or CSO which draw a very narrow crowd celebrating obsolete performance arts.

 

On the topic of the admission fee, it is a real shame that the single donor who was thoughtful enough to fund free admission to the CAM got scammed by the CAM board which almost immediately imposed the parking fee essentially obviating the enormous and generous gift that donor made. It is a shameful episode by the shortsighted board of a great institution.

So you like boring old paintings but hate boring old music and dance performances. Got it.

Most Americans don't understand European art because they don't understand how society was ordered in Europe since the 1400s or so onward through Industrialization and the collapse of the aristocracy and the rise of secularism.  They only respond superficially to what is depicted in a painting.  There is a bit of a corollary with orchestral music, opera, and dance. 

^whatever!?!  I don't need to study the structure of the aristocracy to enjoy an oil painting or opera.  And I'm not going to some oldies rock concert with a bunch of baby boomers either.

Of course, the Cincinnati Art museum is a vital asset to the community. Its attendees are diverse. It is a teaching institution as well. Nothing at all like the opera, ballet or CSO which draw a very narrow crowd celebrating obsolete performance arts.

 

On the topic of the admission fee, it is a real shame that the single donor who was thoughtful enough to fund free admission to the CAM got scammed by the CAM board which almost immediately imposed the parking fee essentially obviating the enormous and generous gift that donor made. It is a shameful episode by the shortsighted board of a great institution.

I know, that Beethoven is so obsolete! Let's move on :-(

Just want to chime in about the Ballet, they do some tremendous outreach and are not at all frequented solely by Indian Hill retirees. Stop by their building on a Saturday afternoon and you'll see all kinds of people milling about waiting for a class or event. Not sure if the UrbanOhio crowd is tuned in to that sort of thing or not, but from my involvement with them, they're not anywhere close to being an obsolete arts organization.

Of course, the Cincinnati Art museum is a vital asset to the community. Its attendees are diverse. It is a teaching institution as well. Nothing at all like the opera, ballet or CSO which draw a very narrow crowd celebrating obsolete performance arts.

 

On the topic of the admission fee, it is a real shame that the single donor who was thoughtful enough to fund free admission to the CAM got scammed by the CAM board which almost immediately imposed the parking fee essentially obviating the enormous and generous gift that donor made. It is a shameful episode by the shortsighted board of a great institution.

I know, that Beethoven is so obsolete! Let's move on :-(

 

I actually like the 3rd and 4th movements of Beethoven's 5th way more than the significantly more-famous first movement. And for reference, I'm in my early-20s and love classical music  :wink:  - I think a lot of people like classical but it often can come across with an inaccessibility to the "plebians". Pretty much anyone can get behind a concert of pieces from Bugs Bunny cartoons, but sitting through a Philip Glass concert is a lot more challenging for people with little exposure to the genre. And when people go around saying "the orchestra only for old rich white people", people will be less willing to engage in that institution.

They have been doing lollipop concerts for decades...I remember nobody showing any enthusiasm for our field trips there for the symphony or the ballet or the art museum.  I remember the kids getting more fired up for the D.A.R.E. police officer band that came to our school than when we went to the symphony. 

 

The ballet covers about 1/3 of their costs with ticket sales and the tickets aren't cheap. So, when it isn't the white hairs funding it, who will?

I'm a season ticket holder for the ballet and I frequent the opera, CSO and Pops. I'm 33 years old and I play the violin (classical, jazz, rock, bluegrass). I've played in volunteer orchestras most of my life, including in college. Many of the people in my orchestra in college went on to conduct or manage community orchestras. Even though, 1400 Sycamore, you do not get why people like this music, a whole lot of people still do. I imagine if people stop going to college for music or stop wanting to learn classical instruments, then it may become a problem. When was the last time you went to the ballet? Probably never. There are a TON of children there, many of them girls dressed as dancers. They are a whole squadron of future "white hairs".

 

Lets please stop feeding the troll on this topic, myself included.

The ballet covers about 1/3 of their costs with ticket sales and the tickets aren't cheap. So, when it isn't the white hairs funding it, who will?

 

People are living longer and longer so if anything I think we'll gradually see an increase in the number of white hairs looking for things to throw their money at. Throughout history young people have grown up to be just like the old people they used to think were weird. Most of these young OTR hipsters will turn 60 some day and vote for people like Cranley, complain about crime downtown, use skybridges, and donate to the CSO. This is a cycle that has always repeated itself ever since people started to live to old ages.

Jan 23, 2017:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hearing a rumor that the city is still considering tearing down the skywalk, even with the recent offer from a donor to pay $800k towards the cost of rehabbing it.

Get an inside look at the $135 million transformation of Music Hall

 

 

Cincinnati Music Hall’s $135 million renovation is well underway.

 

Recently, Urban Land Institute Cincinnati hosted a tour of Music Hall's renovation. The home of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Cincinnati Ballet and Cincinnati Opera was built in 1878. It is considered one of the best and most beautiful concert theaters in the world.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/03/29/get-an-inside-look-at-the-135-million.html

Here's some photos from this evening.

Incredible shots!

Music Hall revamp cost rises to $143 million

 

Music Hall’s massive renovation project is running on time but the budget has crept up by six percent.

 

The total cost now stands at more than $143 million. In addition, the project is $1 million short of its fundraising goal before the hall reopens in October.

 

“We anticipate that we will come fairly close to even on our budget," said Otto M. Budig Jr., who heads the revitalization group that is overseeing the project.

 

The Over-the-Rhine landmark is undergoing its first major renovation in more than four decades. The previous cost estimate released by officials was $135 million.

 

Cont

The sidewalk in front has been busted out:

 

^ A very cool addition (and future photo - hint, hint) is the restoration of the "black and blood" brick coloring scheme. The Enquirer had an interesting article that covered it a few weeks back. It was apparently sandblasted off during the last restoration (!). They originally used a mixture of hot tar to coat one side of certain accent bricks - they're now all around the window openings as well as some horizontal banding.

 

What was most interesting is that this was an add-on item that only got included cause one person - I think a volunteer - who was digging into various aspects of the building history, argued that it was what defined this building as being of a particular style or class.

Great photo.  I need to get a drone. 

I'm really excited about how these renovations will renew how one approaches the building. The ADA ramps that were added and the junky wooden canopy over the entry were both really tacky and poorly done. Now there will be proper accessible entries that don't require an ugly ramp and the canopy has been removed. It will make the presence from the sidewalk that much better.

^^^^Incredible photo. It really makes you appreciate the roof materials.

this really looks stunning. Hopefully it won't mess up the acoustics. That happens sometimes with even the most carefully engineered renovations. Even though it purportedly has the most amazing acoustics of any concert hall anywhere, when Carnegie Hall was restored years ago there were complaints that the sound wasn't as good--something about a lack of vibrations in the floor. Likewise, Avery Fisher Hall--oops, I mean Geffen Hall--at Lincoln Center (home of the NY Philharmonic), which isn't that old (early 1960's), will be undergoing yet another mega-million $$ makeover to try and improve the acoustics (among other stuff), the third time they've done this, once in 1976 and again in 1992. They've spent hundreds of millions so far. It's crazy.

So apparently the city still hasn't made a decision on whether they skywalk will ultimately stay or go. From WVXU's Jay Hanselman on Twitter:

 

City mgr says part of the pedestrian bridge connecting Town Center Garage and Music Hall will be coming down soon

 

As soon as possible, the canopy, walking surfaces, and beams will be coming down.  Supporting piers and foundations will remain for now.

 

"Based on the most recent inspection, it has become more evident that the superstructure of the bridge has reached a point of deterioration requiring its demolition."

So apparently the city still hasn't made a decision on whether they skywalk will ultimately stay or go. From WVXU's Jay Hanselman on Twitter:

 

City mgr says part of the pedestrian bridge connecting Town Center Garage and Music Hall will be coming down soon

 

As soon as possible, the canopy, walking surfaces, and beams will be coming down.  Supporting piers and foundations will remain for now.

 

"Based on the most recent inspection, it has become more evident that the superstructure of the bridge has reached a point of deterioration requiring its demolition."

 

Did they make any mention of the cables and connections to WCET that also use the crossing?  How sad would it be that the new Music hall is unveiled with the city govt contributing just an unusable and  crumbling eyesore of a bridge ruin holding up a bunch of pipes & wires.

Article from WCPO:

 

"The risk is too great to allow the current situation to persist," said DOTE Director Michael Moore in a report issued to Black last week. The most recent inspection prompted city engineers to downgrade the bridge's condition rating from 3 -- "Serious" -- to a 1, "Imminent Failure."

 

The DOTE has temporarily closed two lanes along Central Parkway under the deteriorating floor beams, Moore said.

 

Problems with the span go back years: It was the only city-owned bridge identified in "poor" condition in the Department of Transportation and Engineering's 2013 annual bridge report.

 

I had no idea it was in that poor of condition, but looking back at my aerial photos of the bridge from last year, there is quite a bit of rust on the roadway directly underneath the skywalk:

 

 

How sad would it be that the new Music hall is unveiled with the city govt contributing just an unusable and  crumbling eyesore of a bridge ruin holding up a bunch of pipes & wires.

 

The City of Cincinnati contributed $10 million (maybe that number even grew) towards the total rehab.

How sad would it be that the new Music hall is unveiled with the city govt contributing just an unusable and  crumbling eyesore of a bridge ruin holding up a bunch of pipes & wires.

 

The City of Cincinnati contributed $10 million (maybe that number even grew) towards the total rehab.

 

True, but giving away money is relatively easy; notwithstanding the budget issues, compared to actually planning a solution to a tricky problem. It just seems like they keep kicking this troublesome can down the road in the hopes that it goes away.

 

They're holding this out as a bargaining chip or some sort of excuse to do a redevelopment of the site.  No way that conversation hasn't happened -- the removal and replacement of that parking garage would enable a large structure to be built around the existing studio building, and the cost of a new bridge could be rolled into a new development. 

The City doesn't want to spend the $2M+ to replace the skywalk but they keep hearing that older patrons are going to boycott Music Hall if they tear it down. (And they say Millennials are spoiled and entitled...)

 

Either way, it's now clear that there will be no skywalk when Music Hall reopens in October, since the current skywalk will be torn down ASAP. This will be the perfect opportunity for people to park at Washington Park, park at Towne Center and walk across Central Parkway, or valet. Cincinnati Police could even have a crossing guard at the intersections of 12th & Central Parkway and Ezzard Charles & Central Parkway on big event nights. Maybe people will realize OTR isn't so scary after all, and that spending millions on a replacement skywalk isn't a top priority.

I just read on the Business Courier that buses will likely shuttle people from the garage to events.  That's really funny and sad at the same time. 

That reminds me of when the Enquirer suggested that we run shuttle buses in between US Bank Arena and The Banks.

I just read on the Business Courier that buses will likely shuttle people from the garage to events.  That's really funny and sad at the same time.

 

EVERY SEASON TICKET HOLDER GETS A SEGWAY!!!!

 

Several of the rich old people who have donated to the Music Hall renovation have now threatened to pull their donations if the city doesn't replace the skywalk. They are bringing out the nuclear option here, all so they don't have to walk on the sidewalk and potentially interact with people that are of a different social class... the horror!

Include my dad in that group.  He's not a big donor or anything, but he is planning on giving up their tickets in part due to the removal of the skywalk.  I tried to convince him that a traffic cop or two would assuredly make sure people get across, but could not convince him.

If the skywalk is that critical, they city should come to an agreement with CSO where they add $1 or $2 to the cost of each ticket, and that money goes towards paying the city back for the construction costs of the new skywalk. Think of it as a tolled skywalk.

I'm somewhat confused as to why there isn't more discussion/question of why people would want to be using a janky old garage that's falling apart and enter through the rear of the building they just donated to be restored when the front entrance is a stunning piece of architecture and you can park in a MUCH nicer garage under a gorgeous park. Why do people WANT to use a skywalk and enter through the less interesting side after parking their car in a dated gross garage?

Old people make huge $ decisions based on parking all the time.  Just look at the hospitals and outpatient clinics.  I have witnessed old relatives pick one hospital over another based on parking alone.  No doubt the extravagant reconstruction of MLK near Good Sam was pushed by the hospital more than UC.