Because people fear change? Also many people, including a co-worker that is a season ticket holder for the Opera and Symphony and one who donated to the renovation didn't realize the exterior and front entrance was getting changed. To most of the people, especially those who demand this bridge stays in place, the renovation is simply a matter of making the seats more comfortable and adding extra restrooms.

City Council just passed an ordinance to fund a replacement sky walk:

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/07/31/city-promises-build-new-music-hall-bridge/526168001/

 

 

Because people fear change? Also many people, including a co-worker that is a season ticket holder for the Opera and Symphony and one who donated to the renovation didn't realize the exterior and front entrance was getting changed. To most of the people, especially those who demand this bridge stays in place, the renovation is simply a matter of making the seats more comfortable and adding extra restrooms.

 

How many of these people even know that Music Hall has a front side?

The existing bridge's center legs enter and block one of the subway tunnels.  This bridge reprise is yet another way to create a stumbling block to using the tunnels for transit. 

Sad seeing money spent on this geriatric tube.

Because people fear change? Also many people, including a co-worker that is a season ticket holder for the Opera and Symphony and one who donated to the renovation didn't realize the exterior and front entrance was getting changed. To most of the people, especially those who demand this bridge stays in place, the renovation is simply a matter of making the seats more comfortable and adding extra restrooms.

 

How many of these people even know that Music Hall has a front side?

 

How many of them even know Washington Park is there?

It makes me sick that City Council is folding under pressure from Otto Budig over this stupid skywalk.  What a huge waste of money.  What's wrong with putting a crosswalk in its place for those who want to keep parking on the west side of the hall??? 

 

Having said that, count me as a BIG opponent of the cobblestones on Elm Street in front of the hall.  I've seen old people stumble over them, for crying out loud.  No wonder they may prefer to avoid crossing there. 

 

So many stupid decisions...

But when they redid Elm Street, the made all of the crosswalks concrete. So if you are crossing the street at a designated crosswalk, it's totally flat except for the groove for the streetcar tracks...which of course some Music Hall patrons also complained about.

I told you so. Kill the bridge and the Symphony and Ballet would be collateral damage.

For those of you keeping score:

 

Kenyon Barr: demolished

Albee Theater: demolished

Dennison Hotel: demolished

Central Parkway parking garage skywalk: demolished saved!

Hopple viaduct White Castle: saved!

 

Flynn said the bridge is needed because Over-the-Rhine is only getting busier and Music Hall needs accessible parking in Town Center Garage, which sits across the six lanes of Central Parkway from Music Hall. He said the bridge is "need" not a "want."

 

I don't know if I always get lucky or what, but I've literally never had trouble parking in either downtown or OTR, and I rarely use garages. There is a plethora of parking. Maybe you won't find a space directly adjacent to your destination, but if you're able to walk a couple blocks, it's not hard. The last time I went to Music Hall, I parked for free on Central Parkway and crossed the street at ground level (like some sort of peasant apparently).

But when they redid Elm Street, the made all of the crosswalks concrete. So if you are crossing the street at a designated crosswalk, it's totally flat except for the groove for the streetcar tracks...which of course some Music Hall patrons also complained about.

 

Good point.  I forgot about that. 

But wait, there's more. The Town Center Garage is also very old and will need to be replaced in the coming years. Now that we're spending millions for a new skywalk, we're basically obligated to spend tens of millions for a new parking garage in a couple of years!

At least at that point it can hopefully be integrated into a larger mixed use development. I'd be fine with that scenario (well, sort of). I wouldn't be alright with building a garage only at that site.

Is there any indication of how much donation money is actually on the line here? 

At least at that point it can hopefully be integrated into a larger mixed use development. I'd be fine with that scenario (well, sort of). I wouldn't be alright with building a garage only at that site.

 

What are the odds these same donors threaten to pull their money unless ONLY a garage is rebuilt there when the time arrives so they dont have to fight other people in a mixed use development taking the parking spaces they paid to get to by having the bridge rebuilt.

They should have put in a tunnel from the WPG under Elm Street. Dumbasses.

For those of you keeping score:

 

Flynn said the bridge is needed because Over-the-Rhine is only getting busier and Music Hall needs accessible parking in Town Center Garage, which sits across the six lanes of Central Parkway from Music Hall. He said the bridge is "need" not a "want."

 

I don't know if I always get lucky or what, but I've literally never had trouble parking in either downtown or OTR, and I rarely use garages. There is a plethora of parking. Maybe you won't find a space directly adjacent to your destination, but if you're able to walk a couple blocks, it's not hard. The last time I went to Music Hall, I parked for free on Central Parkway and crossed the street at ground level (like some sort of peasant apparently).

 

So... The Washington Park garage is accessible as well.  If this is really an issue, would it be possible for music Hall to reserve more spaces on performance days specifically for accessible parking? Honestly don't know, but know the whole garage is ada compliant with elevators and everything.

They should have put in a tunnel from the WPG under Elm Street. Dumbasses.

 

Just think if only the subway was there, there could literally be an elevator from a station straight up into music Hall or very close. Can't remember where the stations are located near there.

What did people do at the Taft and Aronoff for the year that Music Hall was closed? Both of them involve crossing streets to enter.

The acted like adults, walked across the street and didn't complain about it.

The Enquirer's Janelle Gelfand writes (on her personal blog) about why the new skywalk is needed. It includes this gem:

 

Can officials create a good walkway to the front door? I have been told that 14th Street will not be a safe passageway, because some of the time, there will be semi trucks loading and unloading in the two loading docks that will be there.

I'd be totally down with the space between Music Hall and Memorial Hall becoming a pass through park that can hopefully eventually be a great pedestrian link between development on Central Park and Washington Park. That could provide a "safe passageway" that I'd be on board with, albeit for entirely different reasons.

The Enquirer's Janelle Gelfand writes (on her personal blog) about why the new skywalk is needed. It includes this gem:

 

Can officials create a good walkway to the front door? I have been told that 14th Street will not be a safe passageway, because some of the time, there will be semi trucks loading and unloading in the two loading docks that will be there.

Yeah, I'm sure that music hall would be aggressively scheduling deliveries on the evenings of concerts. She goes on to complain about how it takes too long to cross the street at the lights, as if light timing is some immutable constant, as opposed to something humans decide.

 

No mention, of course, of developing a lovely walking path along Grant street, parking at more distant garages and taking the streetcar, etc. Just a complete lack of imagination.

 

It must feel so strange having enough money to give to such a worthy project, and then threatening to hold it out in order to get just what you want. I wonder what happens to that wonderful feeling of charitable giving, once you do something like that.

For the last year or more, we have been told "the skywalk has to stay in place because the audio and video cables linking Music Hall to WCET are located on the skywalk". However a new Enquirer article reveals a very important fact:

 

Last June, about 2,000 feet of cables were cut by the construction crew working on Music Hall’s $135 million renovation project, say officials at the public television station CET and Cincinnati Public Radio. Both nonprofits use the audio and video cables embedded underneath the span to produce local and national broadcasts of performances and events in Music Hall. [...]

 

“Obviously, (the cables) are going to have to be replaced,” said Rich Eiswerth, president, general manager and CEO of Cincinnati Public Radio. “I have to assume boring through the ground and channeling the cable has to be much more expensive than using the bridge – if it is rebuilt.”

 

Soo... they have know for a year that the cables themselves will have to be replaced, and yet this is just now becoming public knowledge. Instead of investigating alternatives like putting the cables underground, they kept it a secret and assumed the skywalk would be replaced and they could just secretly replace the cables and no one would notice.

The subway would make boring under Central Parkway somewhat difficult. Otherwise, it really wouldn't be all that expensive, not enough to be a significant factor in whether or not the bridge should be built, at least. I think they'd have to basically bore into the subway, and then cross the subway tunnels with conduit. Hopefully they could do it shallow enough that it wouldn't impede the overhead clearance should the tunnels ever be used for transit.

Is the asphalt for Central Parkway sitting right on top of the concrete of the subway tunnels? Is there literally no space in between to run a conduit for a few cables?

Why couldn't conduit/cables be run *through* the tunnels? Is this really so complicated? If anything, it seems like it'd make it easier/cheaper than having to dig under all of the street.

^^ That is probably a Jake question, but from what I recall from the repairs a few years ago (when the holes were cut into the top of the subway in a few locations north of Music Hall) - the road did just sit right on top of the roof of the tunnels. I think there may have been some compacted fill between the asphalt and concrete top of the arches, but probably not enough to safely run conduit through. That condition might not be the case everywhere, though. In this photo (14th and Liberty) you can see that the subway really isn't very deep:

 

 

Although now that I think about it, there are trees in the median. Maybe it's deeper here than I think, unless it's offset from the center of the street.

The subway is centered under the median in that area.  I'm not sure precisely how much space exists between the subway roof and the road above or the diameter conduit they would need.

It would be very ugly, but since they are keeping the support in the middle of the street, they can just run some kind of truss that will carry the cables over the street.  This issue is more about politics than a practical solution.

 

Also, to be devil's advocate,  I can see how nice it would be to just cruise in off the highway and enter that garage that most OTR visitors don't even know exists.  Most of these donors/ticket holders have been attending shows since Washington Park was a "very scary" place.  It is kind of funny that this garage that used to keep them safe now keeps them away from the crowds of people in the neighborhood. 

 

Finally, there is no access designed for patrons to enter the building at street level from Central Parkway.  They have access designed from the existing skywalk but it seems like the area is designed to be converted to something else if the skywalk is closed since patrons will have to cut through a service elevator hallway. 

COLUMN: Rebuilding Music Hall bridge misses the point of pedestrian safety

 

"I just don't think it's an appropriate use of a million or more dollars when we have a grand entrance to Music Hall on the side of Washington Park," [seelbach said,] pointing out the new garage below the park and promised shuttle service from the Town Center Garage.

 

Seelbach also pointed to efforts he and Council member P.G. Sittenfeld launched in 2016 to increase pedestrian safety throughout the city, efforts the two were able to find about $500,000 to support.

 

"I found (the motion) disheartening," he said. "I think the priorities are not in the right place. If we had a million dollars toward pedestrian safety, I'd ensure every kid can get across the street to get to school and not that someone going to the symphony -- who I greatly appreciate -- has a bridge to cross."

^^ That is probably a Jake question, but from what I recall from the repairs a few years ago (when the holes were cut into the top of the subway in a few locations north of Music Hall) - the road did just sit right on top of the roof of the tunnels. I think there may have been some compacted fill between the asphalt and concrete top of the arches, but probably not enough to safely run conduit through. That condition might not be the case everywhere, though. In this photo (14th and Liberty) you can see that the subway really isn't very deep:

 

 

Although now that I think about it, there are trees in the median. Maybe it's deeper here than I think, unless it's offset from the center of the street.

 

Here is one from out front, looks about the same depth. Maybe shallow root trees? https://i1.wp.com/libapps.libraries.uc.edu/liblog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/1_music-hall-and-ventilator.jpg

Demo of the bridge starts Monday:

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/04/demolition-of-music-hall-pedestrian-bridge-begins.html

Demolition of Music Hall pedestrian bridge begins Monday

 

Demolition of the Central Parkway Pedestrian Bridge will begin Aug. 7, following recent inspections that show the span is seriously deteriorated and in danger of imminent failure, the city of Cincinnati announced Friday.

 

Cincinnati’s Department of Transportation and Engineering has contracted with O’Rourke Wrecking Co. to take down the bridge that connects Town Center Garage to Music Hall over Central Parkway. Demolition is expected to be complete by Aug. 25. The bridge has been closed to pedestrian traffic for more than a year due to safety concerns.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/08/04/demolition-of-music-hall-pedestrian-bridge-begins.html

The renovation is wrapping up and the top part of the skywalk is starting to come down:

 

Maybe they should rebuild the historic front skywalk while they're at it?

 

I don't see any overhead wires. Were those horsecar tracks?

Maybe they should rebuild the historic front skywalk while they're at it?

 

 

If they have to and i mean have to rebuild the skywalk, this would be a great basis of design. It be enjoyable to drive under going down central.

I don't see any overhead wires. Were those horsecar tracks?

 

Yep, that's the 1888 expo, and it was only in that year that the very first electric streetcars were put in service. 

That looks like a Music Hall/Rialto Bridge hybrid! I've never seen that before, but now I love it and want it back (even though I know a modern version would probably look tacky).

I hated skywalks, until I saw that pic.

Let's go back in time and remember that this skywalk was built with the 19th century version of cardboard and foam, as were many expo facilities outside of Music Hall. This was, what the Europeans call, a cake - fancy looking sugar on the outside... boring and conventional on the inside.

 

If we want to bring anything back, let's bring back the Ohio Valley Exposition, itself.

 

 

Bring back the victory arches:

 

 

If we are going to do this, let's do it right. Bring back Gambrina, the Colossus of the Canal!

 

This is the first thing that came to my mind after seeing that.

http://www.rcnky.com/articles/2017/08/14/central-parkway-close-2-weeks-pedestrian-bridge-comes-down

 

Central Avenue will be converted temporarily from one-way to two-way between 12th, Ezzard Charles Drive, and Liberty.

 

They should just keep Central two-way permanently!

One interesting tidbit from that article:

The supporting piers, which are structurally sound, will be left in place and used as part of a replacement bridge.

 

 

^Awesome.  Those supporting piers, which block the inbound tube of the subway.  So if the water main is removed, we get to revisit the matter of this bridge when and if activation of the subway becomes a real issue. 

While I was on vacation last week, I saw a few social media posts go by saying that the bridge will not be replaced. Now I can't find any information about it. Was there some official announcement about it?