Shut it down!

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/study-noise-from-fc-cincinnati-stadium-would-disrupt-performances-rehearsals-at-music-hall?fbclid=IwAR3JCXJgF96KknsKhtN4JU2TdolaXuHFS-syrYKlFobz1nVXSSF6eXmDW1Y

Everyone is reading between the lines right? This is a rich man squabble. Otto Budig is pissed at the Lindner Boys and he's doing all he can behind the scenes to make their lives miserable. From the whole ballet building situation, to now music Hall that he sits on the board and helped renovate. Otto is a thorn in their sides til he drops dead...

There may be something to that but if this report is correct it would ruin Music Hall. Can’t exactly just build the stadium and hope for the best. There’s no good scheduling solution- someone would give up having events on Saturday nights?

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by thebillshark

Ruin music hall? Give me a break. 

38 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Ruin music hall? Give me a break. 

 

Distracting irregular background noise is enough to ruin quiet pieces of music for me.

Well, it would ruin the ability to ever have an event at Music Hall while a game is going on. If they can come up with a scheduling solution where they agree to never overlap, that solves the problem. But isn't a big reason for MLS requiring teams to have their own stadium so that they control their own schedule?

MLS issues the schedule, not FCC.. But yes, this way they don't have to work around any one else's schedule like MLS has to do with Yankees for NYCFC. But this obviously about CSO trying to make FCC pay to move the Ballet.

I'm not sure how that is obvious.

Based on this years CSO schedule and FC Cincinnati schedule, there would only have been one conflict between the two; and that's without them trying to coordinate. 

 

CSO- March 30, 8pm FCC- March 30,  730

 

You wouldn't have any Opera conflicts. 

 

And this is just random chance, not scheduling. This can't be to difficult to figure out.

 

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by thomasbw

The report states “Crowd noise from soccer matches will be readily audible in Springer Auditorium," the report said. The model predicts that at its peak (fans responding to a home team goal, for example) crowd noise will exceed the background noise in Music Hall by as much as 12 decibels.”

 

So at its peak, which again would be a couple of times a game for maybe 15-30 seconds, the noise from the stadium would be as much as 12 decibels. How loud is 12 decibels you ask? It’s less then a light bulb hum. 

 

10dB Absolute silence

13dB Incandescent light bulb hum

15dB Pin drop from a height of 1 centimetre heard at a distance of 1 meter

30dB Totally quiet night time in desert

 

So again I say, give me a break with claiming this would ruin music hall performances. 

Beyond what Cincy 513 posted, CSO's own report states they'd be subjected to about 75dba of noise from the outside.

 

What else is that loud? A toilet flush, highway noise and lawn mower. 

http://chchearing.org/noise/common-environmental-noise-levels/

 

This. is. not. about. noise. 

15 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

The report states “Crowd noise from soccer matches will be readily audible in Springer Auditorium," the report said. The model predicts that at its peak (fans responding to a home team goal, for example) crowd noise will exceed the background noise in Music Hall by as much as 12 decibels.”

 

So at its peak, which again would be a couple of times a game for maybe 15-30 seconds, the noise from the stadium would be as much as 12 decibels. How loud is 12 decibels you ask? It’s less then a light bulb hum. 

 

10dB Absolute silence

13dB Incandescent light bulb hum

15dB Pin drop from a height of 1 centimetre heard at a distance of 1 meter

30dB Totally quiet night time in desert

 

So again I say, give me a break with claiming this would ruin music hall performances. 

 

decibels aren’t linear, so your light bulb analogy doesn’t hold up https://www.noisehelp.com/decibel-scale.html

 

“What is a decibel? Zero decibels (0 dB) is the quietest sound audible to a healthy human ear. From there, every increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of sound intensity, or acoustic power.”

Edited February 5, 20196 yr by thebillshark

18 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

Based on this years CSO schedule and FC Cincinnati schedule, there would only have been one conflict between the two; and that's without them trying to coordinate. 

 

CSO- March 30, 8pm FCC- March 30,  730

 

You wouldn't have any Opera conflicts. 

 

And this is just random chance, not scheduling. This can't be to difficult to figure out.

 

 

I forgot May Festival, Ballet and Pops. 

 

Add those in and there would be three conflict in a year. All you have to do is move the FC games to earlier on those days and problem solved. Next year, just coordinate schedules. And if FC has a really, really big game that can't be moved, maybe you'd want to play at Nippert where you can sell 14,000 more tickets. 

This is Budig sitting on the board advising the rest of them to stick it to FCC and the Lindners for what they are trying to do with the Cincinnati Ballet and surrounding area. One blue blood is angry at another blue blood. 

2 hours ago, thebillshark said:

 

decibels aren’t linear, so your light bulb analogy doesn’t hold up https://www.noisehelp.com/decibel-scale.html

 

“What is a decibel? Zero decibels (0 dB) is the quietest sound audible to a healthy human ear. From there, every increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of sound intensity, or acoustic power.”

 

Why doesn't it hold up? 12 is still less than 13. Am I missing something? 

Leave it to Cincinnati to demolish an entire city block before realizing something like this. 

They don't let bands play at Washington Park when the Symphony or another event is scheduled.   The edge of the stadium will only be about 400 feet from Music Hall, so I think there is a legitimate concern for there and for Memorial Hall.  Also, pre and postgame commotion will be a factor as well, so a solid 4-hour block of time where crowd noise, air horns, bass drums, etc., might be audible inside Music Hall.   

33 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Why doesn't it hold up? 12 is still less than 13. Am I missing something? 

 

The study says the 12dB is the increase above the current background noise, which is probably around 25-30 in a typical theater (Music Hall might be lower, being a higher end facility).

34 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Why doesn't it hold up? 12 is still less than 13. Am I missing something? 

 

What I mean by “non-linear” is a 12 dB increase between 10 and 22 dB represents a lot more increase in absolute sound intensity than a 12 dB increase between 0 and 12 dB. Louder than a light bulb. Other than that I can’t describe it any better than the link I shared:

 

”The relative loudness that we perceive is a subjective psychological phenomenon, not something that can be objectively measured. Most of us perceive one sound to be twice as loud as another one when they are about 10 dB apart; for instance, a 60-dB air conditioner will sound twice as loud as a 50-dB refrigerator. Yet that 10-dB difference represents a tenfold increase in intensity. A 70-dB dishwasher will sound about four times as loud as the 50-dB refrigerator, but in terms of acoustic intensity, the sound it makes is 100 times as powerful. 

 

Here's another way of looking at it: If the sound from one typewriter registers 60 dB, then ten typewriters clacking away would register 70 dB (not 600 dB!), and they would sound only twice as loud as one typewriter. You would need 100 typewriters to reach a noise level of 80 dB, and together they would sound only four times as loud as a single typewriter.”

I can understand them not allowing bands in the park because the front doors into the building and the theater face the park.  However the back of Music Hall faces Central Parkway, and if they've been able to screen out the police sirens, which can be as close as 20-30 feet from backstage, then how is white-noise-ish crowd cheering any worse?  The crowd noise is also mostly contained in the stadium and directed upward to the sky, rather than the line-of-sight from something going on in Washington Park.  Also, 400 feet sounds pretty close, but doesn't the inverse square rule apply? 

I want to advocate for some design solutions here like... building the "Future Development." I'm pretty sure that a 6-story development the entire span of Central Parkway from Liberty to Ezzard Charles would GREATLY reduce the dB's, both low and high frequency, in Music Hall. On top of this, there would be an opportunity to add density along a corridor with access to 10 bus lines (1, 6, 16, 20, 21, 46, 49, 64, 67, 78), north and south lines of the Streetcar, and a protected bike lane ALL within 2 blocks. 

39 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

What I mean by “non-linear” is a 12 dB increase between 10 and 22 dB represents a lot more increase in absolute sound intensity than a 12 dB increase between 0 and 12 dB. Louder than a light bulb. Other than that I can’t describe it any better than the link I shared:

 

”The relative loudness that we perceive is a subjective psychological phenomenon, not something that can be objectively measured. Most of us perceive one sound to be twice as loud as another one when they are about 10 dB apart; for instance, a 60-dB air conditioner will sound twice as loud as a 50-dB refrigerator. Yet that 10-dB difference represents a tenfold increase in intensity. A 70-dB dishwasher will sound about four times as loud as the 50-dB refrigerator, but in terms of acoustic intensity, the sound it makes is 100 times as powerful. 

 

Here's another way of looking at it: If the sound from one typewriter registers 60 dB, then ten typewriters clacking away would register 70 dB (not 600 dB!), and they would sound only twice as loud as one typewriter. You would need 100 typewriters to reach a noise level of 80 dB, and together they would sound only four times as loud as a single typewriter.”

 

Got it. I understand the non-linear part, I just missed the part where it was 12 dB above the current situation. I thought the study was saying that the perceived audio in Music Hall would be 12dB. 

 

But say current background noise in Music Hall is about 25 dB. Adding in stadium noise, we have a max (occasionally heard) of 37dB. That's still quieter than a "quiet office" based on the other link provided. And that is only when a goal is scored, a few times a game, which will only potentially overlap with Music Hall performances a few times a year. Seems like much ado about nothing still.