The poisoning of Flint’s children outraged the U.S.

Lead poisoning is even worse in Cleveland. #NewYorkTimes

https://t.co/LT84OOCwyM

The poisoning of Flint’s children outraged the U.S.

Lead poisoning is even worse in Cleveland. #NewYorkTimes

https://t.co/LT84OOCwyM

 

Hillary Clinton mentioned Cleveland's lead levels in last night's debate.

 

Some quick thoughts while I'm at work:

 

Even worse is its effects are compounded on the poor (Homes built before 1978 have the possibility of lead paint, IIRC) who have limited choices while renting. It's another disadvantage for homes in the city and inner-ring suburbs when people are looking to buy.

 

Unfortunately, it hasn't been addressed for numerous reasons notably systemic racism and the sad reality that its effects are not extremely visible to the general public unless you're diagnosed.

 

Additionally, once you tell a family that their child is poisoned with lead, it's another burden on them.

Just in case people didn't quickly discern the content of KJP's pasted tweet (not my favorite UO format...):

 

Flint Is in the News, but Lead Poisoning Is Even Worse in Cleveland

 

CLEVELAND — One hundred fifty miles northwest of here, the residents of Flint, Mich., are still reeling from the drinking water debacle that more than doubled the share of children with elevated levels of lead in their blood — to a peak, in mid-2014, of 7 percent of all children tested.

 

Clevelanders can only sympathize. The comparable number here is 14.2 percent.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/04/us/lead-paint-contamination-persists-in-many-cities-as-cleanup-falters.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

This really is pretty scandalous. Not as bad as local/state government actively poisoning its citizens and treating whistleblowers with contempt (Flint), but pretty awful none the less. The Jackson administration's total dysfunction with lead abatement efforts pushed me further into the anti-Jackson camp. For reasons mentioned in the NYTime article, lead abatement should be much higher on the priority list. It's totally infuriating.

 

[Edited for typos]

If we want Cleveland to be a better place to live for the people here today and the people will want to live here in future, then addressing the lead poisoning crisis will deliver more than any economic development project can for far less money. Even the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland realizes the consequences to the future of our region, because of the lead poisoning crisis in our children....

 

https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/community-development-briefs/db-20160803-lead-poisoning.aspx

 

 

The effect of lead poisoning on children is they become less able to learn and less able to control their behavior as adults...

 

 

 

yep they say cleaning out the lead paint in public housing and elsewhere over recent years is a big factor in why the crime rate dropped in nyc.

Cleveland has 30 days to post warning signs on homes with current lead hazards that haven't been fixed, court says Some homes already may be placarded. https://t.co/YwrivD4IcT

Homes with dangerous levels of lead continue to change hands in #CLE, leaving unwitting buyers to pay consequences of lax enforcement and loopholes in federal, state and local laws meant to protect children from being poisoned. via ⁦@RachelDissell⁩ https://t.co/C74WnbigT3

I'd imagine Detroit isn't the only city where this situation exists. And I'm not referring only to Flint. But Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Chicago, etc.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/education/drinking-water-be-shut-all-detroit-public-schools

Ohio EPA law requires Cleveland Water to alert customers when lead levels rise

https://fox8.com/2018/10/01/ohio-epa-law-requires-cleveland-water-to-alert-customers-when-lead-levels-rise/

High-quality pre-K doesn’t get most lead-poisoned children ready for kindergarten

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/01/high-quality-pre-k-doesnt-get-most-lead-poisoned-children-ready-for-kindergarten.html

 

 

^ A comprehensive testing program, lost at the end of the article, would seem to be something everyone should immediately have agreed on. It's hard to sell a "comprehensive" program when the need is only roughly scoped. We could have had some excellent data by now.

 

 

Beyond Flint: Cleveland kids poisoned three times worse

Newswise — Substantial numbers of Cleveland’s youngest students have had elevated levels of lead in their blood prior to kindergarten and these children have a higher risk of academic issues, according to two new studies by researchers at Case Western Reserve University.

https://www.newswise.com/articles/beyond-flint-cleveland-kids-poisoned-three-times-worse

About damned time!!!

 

 

Edited January 19, 20196 yr by KJP

Cleveland To Announce Goal To Become 'Lead Safe' By 2028

http://radio.wosu.org/post/cleveland-announce-goal-become-lead-safe-2028#stream/0

 

 

I will throw out my take on this issue here. I'd love to hear everyone's opinion on this. As a landlord, it is now very evident to me how easy of a problem this is to fix. We should NOT be creating any programs specifically aimed at addressing Lead poisoning. In my opinion, this will be a waste of taxpayer dollars that could be put to better use to fix the broader issues that result in lead poisoning. There are A LOT of terrible landlords in this city. It is really not hard at all to perform basic maintenance on a home. Is it costly and time consuming to make every home HGTV worthy? Absolutely, but it does not take much effort at all to paint, clean, keep the place from falling down, etc. When I am looking for a new property to purchase, I am appalled at some of the places I see. It's good for me because I can talk the owner wayyy down in price with all of the stuff that needs fixed, but it's terrible for a tenant who just wants a nice place to live. I mean, some of these places haven't been painted since the 50's. It's embarrassing.

 

A lot of landlords use the excuse that they don't have the money to make the fixes. You can literally paint an entire home with $100 and a week's worth of time. There is no excuse other than laziness. If the city wants to fix the problem, they should take any money for this lead program and hire more building inspectors. Start cracking down, and the problem will fix itself.

You should write an op-ed or a letter to the editor.

@YO to the CLE in theory the majority of the lead issues in our housing stock could be affordably abated, but keep in mind that any lead abatement needs to be done by a contractor with the proper lead abatement license/certification, which limits the pool of who you can hire from and once you find a contractor they often charge more because of the nature of the work and it's difficult to get on their schedule. Additionally, many landlords are not held accountable and currently there isn't much being done to keep landlords accountable, unless a child is found to have a high lead level and the landlord is cited. But in that situation the cost to abate is then increased and the process is ridiculously difficult to get through due to the city's ineptitude; there is a lack of communication from city about the process and the steps that need to be taken, lack of information made available by the city, lack of communication between the Health Department and Community Development (who have shared responsibilities/programs for lead abatement/lead citations), general confusion as the case managers often provide conflicting information, and it is often difficult to get any follow up at any point of the process.

 

I agree that we don't need to create any new lead abatement programs, but I do think that we need to reform what we have, restructure it, and streamline the process. I do think we do need to add registration/certification of properties as lead safe though, which could just be added to the rental registration process, and I believe that's what the group mentioned by KJP is advocating.

@YO to the CLE I think they were listening! Voluntary is a start. Mandatory is better.....

 

 

This is excellent! A great start and exactly what the city needs to be doing.

Why does it take petitions to get a lead safety ordinance? 

 

 

Cleveland’s lead crisis: A ‘moral imperative,’ but can City Council legislate a fix?

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/05/clevelands-lead-crisis-a-moral-imperative-but-can-city-council-legislate-a-fix.html

 

 

The CLASH petition got the required signatures, but the petition was thrown out on a technicality. A new petition has been made and is currently being circulated.

 

City council also introduced their own legislation last week. However the penalties in the council bill are criminal charges and not penalties. I've been told that criminal charges would not withstand a court challenge, so they really need to change that before it gets passed (assuming it does).

 

"Why does it take petitions to get a lead safety ordinance? "

 

I wish it didn't have to come to this, but council has refused to do anything about this for years until the petition got popular.

Edited June 14, 20196 yr by Cavalier Attitude

 

AND

 

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by KJP

Where are you getting that they don't?

Addressing lead paint is a tremendous human decency and economic development policy....

 

https://twitter.com/KerryMcCormack1/status/1139137720012496896?s=19

30 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

You asses...

 

 

(Persian Donkeys at The Wilds near Zanesville - visited last weekend, it was great.)

Tremendous news for the people of this city. Lead poisoning affects behaviors including increased violence and learning disabilities...

 

Cleveland City Council passes historic lead poisoning prevention law

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/07/cleveland-city-council-passes-historic-lead-poisoning-prevention-law.html

1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

Paint the GD windowsill.

 

Why/how is this complicated?

 

Once you determine that the flaking paint contains lead, and before you paint a flaking lead-painted windowsill, you have to remove the flaking lead paint.  And how do you do that without creating lead dust or leaving lead paint dust or chips behind?  That is the problem -- that task is not in everyone's skill set, and in many of the homes that still have lead paint the homeowner does not have the resources to pay someone else to do it for them.  That is the how and why it is so complicated.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

2 hours ago, X said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

What X said. 

On 7/26/2019 at 5:30 PM, Terdolph said:

How do they do it in Lakewood, Brooklyn,  or Clev. Hts. with the same era housing stock and the same paint?  Why isn't it "complicated" in those cites. Are the people who own homes there "more skilled" than the people who live in Cleveland?

As others have pointed out, those are not apple to apple comparisons to Cleveland. Things to consider are the percent of properties that are rental vs. owner-occupied, number of properties, average/median income of each city, population change, and other demographic information.

 

And I feel like it is also important to point out that, if you receive notice from the city/county/state, not just anyone can perform the abatement work, it must be someone who is certified by the state to do that sort of work. That added certification increases the cost of that work and, depending on the scenario, you must also need to hire a third party inspector to verify that your property is now lead safe. So, it's not as simple as just painting a windowsill and if the lead issue is with a rental property that's not something the tenant would take care of, hence the need to hold landlords accountable, which is more of an issue in Cleveland than it is in the cities you mentioned. 

 

This is not to say the city shouldn't be held accountable, the city definitely has room for improvement, but we have to acknowledge that the circumstances are different than the suburban areas with the same/similar housing stock.

Cleveland has a higher percentage of rentals, with a far lower median home value. That means Cleveland homes are less likely to have been maintained or renovated so they have a higher incidence of lead. Is there a big difference between houses two blocks away near the Brooklyn/Cleveland border? Probably not but those aren't the neighborhoods we're talking about.

1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

So, buy a gallon of paint from Uncle Bill's and paint the GD window sill even if you are a renter. 

 

What is so hard about this?

Do you think about things before you post them? Do a basic google search?

 

If it was as simple as buying a gallon of paint from Uncle Bill's and painting the GD window, I doubt we would have this crisis where thousands of children have been poisoned.

 

https://zotapro.com/blog/painting-over-lead-paint/

 

When It’s Safe To Paint Over Lead-Containing Paint

One of the most significant factors when deciding whether it is safe to simply cover lead paint by painting over it is the condition of the existing paint and wall. If they are both in good condition, then painting over them will form a barrier against the toxins in the lead paint.

Not any normal paint will safely cover lead-containing paint. To make sure that the paint, dust, and fumes are carefully controlled, a special type of paint known as an encapsulant must be used. It’s applied over the lead-based paint as a sealant to prevent paint chips or dust from being breathed in or escaping. Though DIY-ers can technically apply an encapsulant on their own, the safest and most recommended way of properly performing an on-site encapsulation is to hire a professionally certified vendor that specializes in lead-based paint removal.

 

When It’s Not Safe To Paint Over Lead-Containing Paint

If the wall or paint is in any way chipped or damaged, bubbling or peeling, then painting over it will not re-seal the lead paint. The toxins contained underneath all the layers will still be exposed through the topcoat, and therefore, always considered dangerous.

If you find yourself within a building that built prior to 1978 and the walls are in poor condition, then hiring a certified lead-paint removal team is important not only for the sake of the building’s integrity but also for the safety of everyone in the building

24 minutes ago, Terdolph said:

So, the people who live in Brooklyn Hts. right across the street from the city of Cleveland all used contractors to apply encapsulent paint and the people on the Cleveland side did not? 

 

Really, something here does not pass the common sense test.

higher valued real estate makes spending money on it more worth while.

Quote

So, the people who live in Brooklyn Hts. right across the street from the city of Cleveland all used contractors to apply encapsulent paint and the people on the Cleveland side did not?

 

Paint encapsulation isn't the only (or best solution) though. Often times to correctly abate a lead hazard you might have to replace/encapsulate wood door frames, thresholds, windowsills, window casings, and siding with a vinyl/aluminum. This is not a cheap or easy fix and if not done by a licensed lead contractor and following government guidelines your property wouldn't be considered lead safe, to do so the following would need to be met:

• Use a licensed lead abatement contractor and risk assessor
• Contractor would need to follow protocol for abating lead risk
  • Containing construction zone (including exterior work, an added expense for properties w/ little to no setback) when conducting prep work (like scraping paint, removing hazardous materials, etc.) and abatement
  • Conducting the third party approved lead abatement work (concealment, encapsulation, etc.)
  • Post-construction cleaning that follows lead guidelines (means, methods, disposal)
• Third party assessor to test/sign-off/approve of work performed

These requirements make the job more expensive, not mention these aren't in and of themselves easy jobs to do, even if you are going the DIY route. And I can't believe you would actually suggest that a tenant perform this work themselves, especially tenants who are not wealthy. 

 

As a real world example, I had to lead abate a property and the interior work alone was $4,500 (wet scrape, seal, paint for stabilization 16 window casings/windowsills, 2 walls, and 3 door frames. The post construction lead safe cleaning alone was $800 and the contractor charged a $500 "lead safe guidelines" fee. I know to you that might not seem like a lot of money, but for many people it is.

 

And I should also mention that this was on a house that had been relatively well maintained, so the amount of items that had to be abated was not that extensive (many of the windows had actually been replaced with vinyl, just had wood casings/frames). Many houses that aren't lead safe need much more extensive work, including costly exterior work.

Edited July 30, 20195 yr by andrew0816
To add quote of post I was responding to

1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

Just give me an orbital sander, a dust mask and a gallon of paint....

 

 

Ha!  Good one!  Be sure to check the lead levels in your blood when you're done ... and you probably won't want to rent to anyone after that unless you've thoroughly cleaned up all the dust.  I can imagine Misny and Elk & Elk salivating over future tenants found to have elevated lead levels. 

 

 

And one-third of Ohio's lead-poisoning cases are in Cleveland

 

 

Are there any actual Cleveland landlords on here that have gone through this process?  I had heard people alluding to this program, but just realized my property (owner occupied duplex) is due to certification this month.    I'm not worried about it as I have a well maintained house.  However the Cleveland skeptic in me worries this program will be rife with unscrupulous contractors, eager to make some quick bucks.  

 

If you have gone through the process, are there any contractors on this list you would recommend? 

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WZR6PLHJtxDj4zUPvKvDXwBiom8FzdwfLkBVG19g7bo/edit

Go, Justin!

 

 

Bingo! Imagine people being angry at the mayor for trying to improve health outcomes for thousands of families....