January 7, 20196 yr On 1/4/2019 at 3:50 PM, Mendo said: Well, the developer would be Jeff Jacobs that owns the surface lots and Nautica complex. It came out in 2016 they were working on the master plan. The article from Crains (2016) has rough massings from GPD Group. The AoDK designs are certainly better, so I was hoping those were the latest plans. https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160509/NEWS/160509849/nautica-plan-calls-for-residential-complexes edit: I just realized the AoDK renderings actually show two different plans. One has a single rise along the river. The other has two shorter buildings with a waterway between them. I like the two shorter buildings -- makes the area denser. I think it's actually three plans. A high rise that is sided by a marina, a wider mid-rise sided by a marina, and to slimmer mid-rises sperated by a marina. Either way these would be a huge upgrade over that current ugly parking lot.
January 7, 20196 yr I know this wouldn't be the moneymaker of a full blown development - but I think pairing at least a portion of that parking lot with the aquarium and towpath would be great. A carve-out could be made with the river and an aquatic center could be made, dedicated to the wildlife past and present that calls the Cuyahoga home - this would be interactive and hopefully under the Metroparks umbrella. This 501c3(presumably) could spearhead fundraising efforts for cleaning and dredging the river and fighting off invasive species. It would be a great incentive to keep the water taxi alive and could be a great destination for tour groups, field trips, and family trips downtown in the summer. This would be a limited footprint, and the Nautica Development could still happen, just on a slightly scaled back version - which would probably be better anyways. Edited January 7, 20196 yr by YABO713
January 7, 20196 yr The walkway down from the old bridge is an interesting addition. I like that the new moat configuration around the large building doesn't go all the way around but If you can't park boats there, it really isn't necessary even with fountains and bridges. I also like that there's some grass in there but that park like area in the middle is just wasted space especially with the new Irish bend park that's going in just walking distance away on the new path. I don't know how much that soccer field will be used either. I always like to see a play ground for kids to foster that "families can live here too" vibe but that may just be the dad in me. If they tighten it up and put some retail on the ground floor, I'd be all for the new look.
June 13, 20196 yr WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2019 Seeds & Sprouts II - Early intel on real estate projects This is the second edition of Seeds & Sprouts - Early intelligence on Cleveland-area real estate projects. Because these projects are very early in their process of development or just a long-range plan, a lot can and probably will change their final shape, use and outcome. Flats West Bank: Nautica Waterfront District seeks Joint Venture On May 13, Nautica Entertainment LLC recorded with Cuyahoga County the issuance of $35 million in five-year notes from a line of credit it collateralized through Wilmington Trust, National Association. The debt was mortgaged against all of Nautica Entertainment's properties on the Flats West Bank. A portion of the financing could reportedly help build the first phase of an ambitious, high-end community on the West Bank. Most of the rest will help capitalize the firm's other interests. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/06/seeds-sprouts-ii-early-intel-on-real.html Edited June 13, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 13, 20196 yr Great stuff Ken! A simple Google search told me Jacobs owns Nautica Entertainment ?
June 13, 20196 yr How far below do you have to dig to reach solid bedrock in the flats? It's a valley. I've always dreamed of the Chicago river when rebuilding the flats which would make the west bank become a part of real downtown.. I like this plan and we have a lot of shoring up to do with what is considered downtown at present. Just being fanciful in my thinking but like what X said above this has a lot of potential in more ways than one. Edit never see that in our lifetime at that scale but smaller perhaps. I like square block grids for streets not what we see at the new east bank flats or this rendering. Looks suburban office park. Edited June 13, 20196 yr by Mildtraumatic
June 13, 20196 yr I don't know if Jacobs has anything real cooking on the West Bank or not (I hope note, because I don't like their vision), but I'm fairly certain the docs recorded in May and $35M in new notes are a red herring. It's secured corporate debt for the parent company, Jacobs Entertainment, Inc., and looks like that $35M is ticketed to payoff other debt, to buy truck stops in Louisiana, and for casino business in Reno and Black Hawk, CO. Here's a summary from Moody's: https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-rates-Jacobs-2nd-Lien-notes-tack-on-B2-affirms--PR_394535 And Wilmington Trust isn't a lender here, just the collateral agent for the note holders.
June 13, 20196 yr I had a feeling it was Nautica when KJP hinted about something being planned in the flats. For whatever reason I was hoping it would be Scranton Peninsula or Stones Levee or Moses Cleveland Tower. This project is a Pipedream. It was announced in 2016 that construction if I recall correctly would start in 2023 plus Jeff Jacobs is involved. This gets us just as excited as we are with the 40 years of Lakefront Development Projects announced. You could also tell by the Non-posting activity on this thread. The Geis Condo Tower got 3 pages of posts on a brand new thread in 1 day. Now that is excitement.
June 13, 20196 yr Thanks. Correction made. Yes, I'm told Nautica is trying to secure a JV. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 13, 20196 yr 14 minutes ago, StapHanger said: I don't know if Jacobs has anything real cooking on the West Bank or not (I hope note, because I don't like their vision), but I'm fairly certain the docs recorded in May and $35M in new notes are a red herring. It's secured corporate debt for the parent company, Jacobs Entertainment, Inc., and looks like that $35M is ticketed to payoff other debt, to buy truck stops in Louisiana, and for casino business in Reno and Black Hawk, CO. Here's a summary from Moody's: https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-rates-Jacobs-2nd-Lien-notes-tack-on-B2-affirms--PR_394535 And Wilmington Trust isn't a lender here, just the collateral agent for the note holders. Thanks! Corrections made. Yes, I'm told Nautica is pursuing a JV. EDIT: Although I think @simplythis is correct -- little is going to happen with Flats West Bank unless and until Jeff Jacobs sells his interests there. That's probably the best "JV deal" he is going to get. Edited June 13, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 13, 20196 yr I really like the green landscaping and extension of the Superior Viaduct envisioned by the Jacob's plan that appears to be modelled after the NY skywalk. No more dead end and it utilizes that space much better. These are our "Roman ruins" if you will that adds an intriguing layer of historical depth to ou rcity. The old stone work should be preserved and highlighted where they are found. The lake link trail has some as well as the parking lot between the warehous district and the stadium. https://aodkinc.com/portfolio/waterfront-development/
October 19, 20195 yr This is kind of interesting. The entire Flats West Bank was rezoned in February 2018. It's being rezoned again "at Councilman McCormack’s Request" to remove the urban form overlay that was added last year. The largest stakeholder here is Jacobs, so why would he lobby to have the UFO removed, unless he thought it was an impediment to whatever development he's trying to sell. http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/mc/pdf/MC2578-Public-Notification.pdf
March 6, 20205 yr https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/03/jacobs-puts-56-acres-up-for-sale-on-west-bank-of-the-flats-along-the-waterfront.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true
March 6, 20205 yr ^ That is good news. There is little chance he builds anything there on his own. Hopefully it goes to a developer with deep pockets. Here is the site that Jacobs Entertainment put up for sale.
March 6, 20205 yr Yes this great news. Hopefully his asking price is where it should be whereas it does not stagnate a sale.
March 6, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, skiwest said: Great. It will be nice to get rid of another sea of surface parking lots. Hopefully yes. The parking operation here can't be a major money maker. The high asking price should limit the buyer pool to somebody with an intent to build. Unlike up the hill downtown, where parking lots print money. I bet even Stark makes enough from parking at the nuCLEus and warehouse district lots to pay down the $26 million he paid for them in 2014.
March 6, 20205 yr I'm hearing there's some users VERY interested in this site and nearby properties as well. Edited March 6, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 6, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: I'm hearing there's some users VERY interested in this site and nearby properties as well. Cool. Good to hear that from multiple sources! Jarboe's article had a similar quote from NKF rep. Quote Sheehan [a Newmark Knight Frank managing director] said there’s already "serious interest" in the waterfront site. "It's about location, and it's about timing," he said. "And in the location now, the timing is right. There's enough cooking around there, and in Cleveland."
March 6, 20205 yr Jacobs selling air rights is very interesting to me in this context. I guess if people bite it’s the smart thing to do though.
March 6, 20205 yr that was from october. did they at least amend the zoning so jacobs could sell? any other movement or news? anything flats is always newsworthy!
March 6, 20205 yr I wasn't a fan of their conceptual plan for the area, so hopefully this means we can get something better.
March 7, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, X said: I wasn't a fan of their conceptual plan for the area, so hopefully this means we can get something better. I recall a high rise with a moat I was lukewarm on.. the plan posted on the last page by KJP is amazing IMO. Did that conceptual plan come from Jacobs?
March 7, 20205 yr 52 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: I recall a high rise with a moat I was lukewarm on.. the plan posted on the last page by KJP is amazing IMO. Did that conceptual plan come from Jacobs? Yes. The new plan is better, IMHO. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 5, 20205 yr Here is the listing for what Jacobs has up for sale. The Nautica District is 22 acres, 5.6 of those is up for sale. Basically the space between the Powerhouse and the bridge. https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/Main-Avenue-Sycamore-St-Cleveland-OH/18769628/
May 5, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, cadmen said: KJP in a different thread you alluded to a possible "bigger" development on the west bank of the Flats that's NOT a Jacobs plan. I understand you don't want to say more until the info is released but I am curious if you can answer one question? From what I understand Jeff Jacobs has controlling interest in the parking lots and other land along the river and if he's not involved that doesn't leave much property left over for a "bigger" project. What am I missing here? I hope to have more to share about what is currently the Nautica property, or at least a portion of it, soon. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 8, 20205 yr its good to hear ongoing interest. i just hope jacobs sell to somebody with firm plans to build and not just sit on it. i must be in the minority, but i liked the marina tower version(s), i think its more unique and fitting for the site. but yeah the latest vision is better, because it uses the space better and it seems denser/more people. whatever the new developer goes with they are lucky, this site is a lock for buyers or renters. its such a well known and popular area in everyone's experience, it will sell itself. its a fantastically unique setting. Edited May 8, 20205 yr by mrnyc
May 8, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, mrnyc said: i must be in the minority, but liked the marina tower version(s), i think its more unique and fitting for the site. I agree--it reminded me of something you'd see in Europe, and would be unique for the area for sure having dockage outside the tower.
May 8, 20205 yr ^ exactly, but i am more than happy to see what looks like increased density. i just hope the architecture lives up to the site. its no place for generic apartment buildings. so far so good with all the visions.
May 8, 20205 yr I don't think I'm the only one eagerly awaiting KJP's update/news on the Nautica situation (I didn't say project, lol). I almost forgot the scope of the AoDK designs until I reread some of the thread and revisited the amazing video on vimeo, posted here in early 2019 by @Mendo . After what we've been through over the last two months, I have to say all the fretting we usually do about retail and mixed-use development might change in a future world that is quickly arriving. I also have to laugh and agree with @CLE_Millennial when he said, "you're all crazy - the west side of the flats looks like trash.." I might not have said it exactly that way, but there is a balance between preserving historic buildings and the energy of progress. Maybe we tend to fall in love with our old things and want to hold on to them when some aren’t worth keeping. If we ever got something like the AoDK design on that kind of scope, I'd take it in a New York minute. Imagine that kind of development in that location, as downtown, Hingetown and Ohio City all continue to grow. . This is bigger than my pay grade, but one certainty for an uncertain future might be residential. in the next few years, we could be spending more time than ever in our homes- they might have more importance in our lives than ever before. How this world crisis affects how cities are planned and built could become an intriguing subject in itself. Anyway, now, at least the west bank parcel is up for sale, providing some big visions for the area. Whether you like the particular designs we’ve seen, the possibilities are exciting. In the short term, maybe the crisis puts everything on a major pause. I just hope I see this site transform into another amazing Cleveland success story. Edited May 9, 20205 yr by CleveFan grammar
May 8, 20205 yr ^ when you look at it like that, i'm actually glad jacobs people held on to the site and left it as parking for so long!
May 9, 20205 yr 7 hours ago, CleveFan said: I don't think I'm the only one eagerly awaiting KJP's update/news on the Nautica situation (I didn't say project, lol). Turns out it's not Nautica. It's kind of in no-man's land. And sources aren't confident it will get built. But when I find out a little more, I'll share the news -- unless the developer tells me to sit on the story until the property closes. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 13, 20205 yr NEOtrans bomb incoming! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 13, 20205 yr 15 minutes ago, KJP said: NEOtrans bomb incoming! It's been 14 minutes, why haven't you posted yet??!?! lol I kid.
May 13, 20205 yr WEDNESDAY, MAY 13, 2020 Developers, investors making big plays on Flats' West Bank Despite the economic slowdown, several prominent local and national developers and investors are making big real estate plays on the Flats' West Bank, across the Cuyahoga River from downtown Cleveland. The end result could be a mix of buildings with mostly residential offerings and at least two of the developments possibly rising to 20 stories or higher. As one real estate insider said, "That area might be the next hotspot after Hingetown." He's referring to the northeast corner of Ohio City, adjoining Flats' West Bank, where just about every block since 2000 has had a development project built, underway or planned. It's about time, as the Flats' West Bank sat out Cleveland's redevelopment boom of the 2010s. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/developers-investors-making-big-plays.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 13, 20205 yr This is great....but biggest piece of info was that Club Eros moved???? TO WHERE????? lol!!!
May 13, 20205 yr Wow... love all of this and hope some or all of it can proceed. It's so interesting to see at least part of the increase in interest due to the trail networks. Being able to access such a large unique area (the Flats) on foot or on bike all the way from Downtown to the Lakefront is such a unique asset. Its about time this property's potential is really seen!
May 13, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said: Wow... love all of this and hope some or all of it can proceed. It's so interesting to see at least part of the increase in interest due to the trail networks. Being able to access such a large unique area (the Flats) on foot or on bike all the way from Downtown to the Lakefront is such a unique asset. Its about time this property's potential is really seen! I was down there dropping a friend off at his boat storage yesterday and was amazed at the foot traffic in the flats. Lots of joggers and people walking together!
May 13, 20205 yr Another fantastic piece of journalistic work by @KJP! I’m surprised but delighted to see the scope and breadth of visions for the Flats West Bank area. It underscores how development in adjoining neighborhoods is critícal to spreading interest and planning into others. With the West Bank positioned in between between dynamic new neighborhoods in Ohio City, Hingetown and downtown, the metrics could be game- changing. One advantage of potential high rise residential structures in the Flats is that unique views, be. they of the River, the lake, bridges, or the downtown skyline are probable from even lower floors. Personally, I’d like to see the Jatsek group (or someone) get the ok to exceed the city’s 250’ limit in that area because I think interest in a high rise residential home will be high when we emerge from the crisis. If any one of these exciting projects materializes, it will increase the momentum of the area, the kind of domino effect we’ve been seeing and want to continue. And just think, the biggest surprise of all could be yet to come on the Náutica site. Might as well be optimistic and excited as we look forward! Edited May 13, 20205 yr by CleveFan
May 13, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, mrclifton88 said: Wow... love all of this and hope some or all of it can proceed. It's so interesting to see at least part of the increase in interest due to the trail networks. Being able to access such a large unique area (the Flats) on foot or on bike all the way from Downtown to the Lakefront is such a unique asset. Its about time this property's potential is really seen! Well said. To me the increase in interest coinciding with the new trails is the least surprising thing...access is the key to building momentum. More and more people are finally seeing the potential that we have known about for years. And that's why it's been so frustrating that the trail network has taken so long.
May 13, 20205 yr I think that it would be great if the Memorial Shoreway could be relocated to run along the railroad tracks in the Flats and Whiskey Island. This would free up a lot of valuable land and open up the area. Rather than a huge bridge hanging over the area there could be a tunnel under the Cuyahoga River much like the tunnel on US1 in Fort Lauderdale that goes under the New River.
May 13, 20205 yr I've never been a big fan of Jacob's Pavilion. It looks a bit unsightly next to the old Powerhouse. And how many events are held there each year - maybe a couple dozen? It seems like the property could be put to better use IMO.
May 13, 20205 yr Couldn't disagree more. Viewing the stage with the river backdrop is one of the most unique concert facilities anywhere. I remember watching Stevie Ray Vaughn open and just as he started to play a giant ore boat came into view and the skipper blasted his horn. It was so loud it caught Stevie Ray by surprise. He turned around to look and then turned back to the audience with a big grin on his face and a fist bump. It's things like that that make Cleveland special. Where else are you gonna see that?
May 13, 20205 yr I know this is something that @X would like to see, and if large-scale developments start popping up in the Flats, traffic down there could get ugly real quick. So something like this might be worth looking at to serve the Flats East Bank, West Bank, Columbus Road Peninsula and Scranton Peninsula: Edited May 13, 20205 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 13, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, cadmen said: Couldn't disagree more. Viewing the stage with the river backdrop is one of the most unique concert facilities anywhere. I remember watching Stevie Ray Vaughn open and just as he started to play a giant ore boat came into view and the skipper blasted his horn. It was so loud it caught Stevie Ray by surprise. He turned around to look and then turned back to the audience with a big grin on his face and a fist bump. It's things like that that make Cleveland special. Where else are you gonna see that? Totally agree. Everyone I know says it's their favorite spot to catch a summer concert.
May 13, 20205 yr Just now, Clefan98 said: Totally agree. Everyone I know says it's their favorite spot to catch a summer concert. Nautica stage, Jackson Browne concert, Spet. 8, 2015.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 13, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I know this is something that @X would like to see, and if large-scale developments start popping up in the Flats, traffic down there could get ugly real quick. So something like this might be worth looking at to serve the Flats East Bank, West Bank, Columbus Road Peninsula and Scranton Peninsula: I like it! One other thought I had was that if the station were integrated with a new development either along the sides of the viaduct, or even enveloping it, that could maybe bring the cost to RTA down. Of course, that block is a park, but the next block down is low density uses.
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