36 minutes ago, KJP said:

Wolstein goes west as backer of Flats West Bank tower

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/wolstein-goes-west-as-backer-of-flats.html

 

That article...was a finely woven tapestry of detail. What a logical and coherently threaded piece of journalism. @KJP must not just be busy homeschooling, he's schooling everybody in the game right now.

 

Edit: and by a happy mistake, I've bumped the link back to the top of this new page as much as Ken hates to see stories get buried in a previous page ?

Edited May 21, 20205 yr by infrafreak

2 minutes ago, infrafreak said:

 

That article...was a finely woven tapestry of detail. What a logical and coherently threaded piece of journalism. @KJP must not just be busy homeschooling, he's schooling everybody in the game right now.

 

Thanks! But if I wasn't homeschooling, I would have had that article posted yesterday! Today was my son's last day of homeschooling. I don't know if that means he will command my attention more or less than before....

Thanks  @KJP for this latest in a long line of great articles!  

Edited May 21, 20205 yr by CleveFan
Unnecessary question deleted

FYI: the presentation about the 2208 Superior Viaduct project will be held at 6:30 pm today at the Tenk Building, 2111 Center St.

6 hours ago, KJP said:

FYI: the presentation about the 2208 Superior Viaduct project will be held at 6:30 pm today at the Tenk Building, 2111 Center St.

 

Article coming -- with renderings!

Looks like it’s gained 4 stories since what we knew at the time of last week’s article...!

 

 

TUESDAY, MAY 26, 2020

Flats West Bank high-rise plans revealed

 

At a meeting today of the Riverfront District Block Club, developers presented their plans for a high-rise apartment tower near the top of the hill above Flats' West Bank. It is the first of what is likely to be more residential towers publicly announced in the near future for the West Bank.

The development team, led locally by Walton Hills resident Wayne Jatsek of Jatsek Construction Co., presented preliminary plans for a 24-story tower at 2208 Superior Viaduct with about 186 market-rate apartments above six levels of parking totaling roughly 128 spaces, according to documents presented by Paul Glowacki of Lakewood-based Dimit Architects.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/flats-west-bank-high-rise-plans-revealed.html

 

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by KJP

5 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

TUESDAY, MAY 26, 2020

Flats West Bank high-rise plans revealed

 

At a meeting today of the Riverfront District Block Club, developers presented their plans for a high-rise apartment tower near the top of the hill above Flats' West Bank. It is the first what is likely to be more residential towers announced in the near future for the West Bank.

The development team, led locally by Walton Hills resident Wayne Jatsek of Jatsek Construction Co., presented preliminary plans for a 24-story tower at 2208 Superior Viaduct with about 186 market-rate apartments above six levels of parking totaling roughly 128 spaces, according to documents presented by Paul Glowacki of Lakewood-based Dimit Architects.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/flats-west-bank-high-rise-plans-revealed.html

 

Figured I'd check the site one time before bed, glad I did, this is great!  Thanks!

I hope the finished product is very similar to this advanced massing, and is vibrantly colored, Miami high rise style ?

 

 

 

It's great to see a building developed with balconies for each apartment unit.

Man, I thought UO loved to debate renderings. It's mostly crickets so far on the Superior Viaduct tower....

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by KJP

15 minutes ago, KJP said:

Man, I thought UO loved to debate renderings. It's mostly crickets so far on the Superior Viaduct tower....

I was under the impression these were more conceptual (rather than the finished product) but I'll bite.  I guess they are fine.  Really not that much different in my mind than say Winton in Lakewood or Bratenahl Place.

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by Htsguy

27 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I was under the impression these were more conceptual (rather than the finished product) but I'll bite.  I guess they are fine.  Really not that much different in my mind than say Winton in Lakewood or Bratenahl Place.

 

All the more reason to comment. The plans are still fluid. Many developers, architects and other real estate professionals read this site.

It doesn’t blow me away, but I also think the lighter colored glass will look good around the more industrial brick in the area.  The blue will look good looking east from OC against the other buildings. 

 

The other buildings down there are kind of stumpy, so a thinner tall building will add some variety. 

I like it , it's solid, nothing too flashy which means it will age well. Part of me wants the lighter colored material to be a traditional red brick to blend with the surrounding buildings. 

I like it. Looks like a typical apartment building I'd find in Nashville or Charlotte. It'll be nice to have more height in that area. 

^I hate it. WAYYYY too much density, and I feel personally offended at such a design. I am going to make sure I free up my calendar from anything remotely productive so I can go sit in on the BZA meetings and express my unabated anger towards such a design. I may even sue for personal anguish.

5 minutes ago, ASPhotoman said:

I like it. Looks like a typical apartment building I'd find in Nashville or Charlotte. It'll be nice to have more height in that area. 

I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing...do like the height.

Oh , I get it. Sarcasm!

Just now, Htsguy said:

I don't know if that is necessarily a good thing...do like the height.

Why would it not be? Especially in an area that could use it. 

 

I've had to change my mindset when it comes to Cleveland. As much as I would love the skyline and it's buildings to look like New York or Chicago, I'll take any building that adds density and still looks just "good". Is the building spectacular? Not at all...but I'll take it over what's there now. Especially when this project could help lead to more (maybe even better looking) buildings in that area.

I actually think this is one time I am okay with no proposed ground floor retail. This area is definitely close enough to the Quarter/any retail at Church and State, that even your typical Cleveland anti-walking sentiment can’t argue...and I think retail along there is more important. 

 

I also wish this included a purchase and rehab of the neighboring four story buildings. Although I’d imagine if this plan comes to fruition they won’t sit as is for long...

The rendering architecture seems pretty average, resembling something along Lakewood's Gold Coast.

 

It's tough to squeeze it into such a narrow lot, but having the low-rise buildings on either side is what enables the universal balconies, the parking pedestal and provides some privacy. Otherwise you'd be looking into someone else's bedroom, like in NYC, Chicago or San Francisco.

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

It's a very nice design with a nice color scheme. At a high level, it's similar to One University Circle, which is an attractive building. I appreciate what @KJP said about now being the time for critiques. Personally, I assume there's enough criticism to go around without finding things to nit and pick about. The design is very Miami-esque, which would be a concern if there were two ounces of overlap between the issues Miami currently faces as a city and the issues Cleveland currently faces as a city. Let's get a few more Miami-style buildings first, and then I'll start complaining about them.

Woah I've missed a lot of action here. This is huge.

I'm always gonna complain that it doesn't properly evoke the history of the area the way a lot of other new developments do. That's fine in some areas, but as an attendee said, the area has a lot of grit. It's that history and industrial chic aesthetic that partially makes this specific area attractive. 

The West Bank of the Flats had a cool vibe back in the 90s with all the old brick buildings that had been re-purposed - The Powerhouse, Cantina Del Rio, Spaghetti Warehouse, etc. That vibe got messed up IMO when the new apartments starting going up that didn't really blend in architecturally.  And now the Superior Viaduct is mostly obscured with new buildings on both sides.

It's nothing spectacular architecturally but I am surprised by the height and love that all units have balconies, we really need more buildings like that.  Outdoor space in an urban setting is such a huge bonus!  Rooftops & balconies are needed for these buildings to stay competitive.  More importantly I am excited for the activity this building and its residents could add to the area.  The Superior Viaduct is a really cool urban space, but there isn't much going on aside from Luca.  Not that I am calling for it to be as crowded as the High-line or anything, but I think it could be nicely enhanced with all the new projects nearby.

Thanks to KJP as always. Based on that rendering,  2208 will look fantastic on the West Bank.  I love the height. Agree with everyone that the balconies are a BIG plus - they’ll single handedly lease out this building quickly - imagine a relaxing summer evening (or even a cool fall evening) on one. Love the color - reminds me of a Vancouver high rise. I also like the penthouses and the look of the building at the top.  I think it will be one of those buildings where people eventually remark “wow, I’m loving this even more than when the rendering came out”. Congrats Cleveland - you’re on a roll. 

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by CleveFan

1 hour ago, YO to the CLE said:

^I hate it. WAYYYY too much density, and I feel personally offended at such a design. I am going to make sure I free up my calendar from anything remotely productive so I can go sit in on the BZA meetings and express my unabated anger towards such a design. I may even sue for personal anguish.

don't forget that once a year there will be sun glare at such an angle that it may blind a squirrel. this needs to be stopped.

^^Good point about Vancouver. Would need about 30-40 more of these to even get that feel.  
  I can’t see anything to quibble with in design.  I think everyone is more critical when it comes to buildings downtown. Outside of that its totally a bonus to get a tower as long as it doesn’t offend with garish colors or design. 
 

Love the proportions, like the design, love the balconies.

 

Could it be more industrial... sure... does it need to be... no.

 

I think the design helps to blend the development just a few blocks up the hill into the neighborhood without sacrificing any charm from the current stock of antique structures. we aren't losing any charm to the demolition for this tower. 

 

2 hours ago, HGRHS said:

I also wish this included a purchase and rehab of the neighboring four story buildings. Although I’d imagine if this plan comes to fruition they won’t sit as is for long...

 

I would like to see that floor at the rooftops of the neighboring building (7th floor?) be utilized as an amenity floor that extends out onto patio and green space on the neighboring roofs.

 

I Don't know how realistic that is, but maybe some partnership could be created to let other buildings in that neighborhood utilize that amenity floor in exchange for more reserved parking for this building since there are more apartments than parking spaces. I don't want to be the one who says "there isn't enough parking" ? but until public transit catches up with the growth this neighborhood is going through, parking in that area may be a temporary problem.

 

But maybe i'm still dizzy from the sheer scale of this proposal?

its lots of apts and density -- so i dont freakin care what it looks like. ha. it fits its site like a glove and i really like the balconies. and i bet it will have interesting amenities. there is nothing wrong with utilitarian design here.

 

when i streetviewed i see via a sign on the fencing there was something less ambitious planned called the vine ??? 

14 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

its lots of apts and density -- so i dont freakin care what it looks like. ha. it fits its site like a glove and i really like the balconies. and i bet it will have interesting amenities. there is nothing wrong with utilitarian design here.

 

when i streetviewed i see via a sign on the fencing there was something less ambitious planned called the vine ??? 

 

The current owner of the property, Daryl Kertesz, is promoting his cousin Chad Kertesz's townhouse development on Vine Court in Ohio City.

I updated the article with a Dropbox link to Dimit Architects' planning documents so you can see images and labels in much more detail:

 

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/flats-west-bank-high-rise-plans-revealed.html

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by KJP

Will this be the tallest building in Cleveland west of the Cuyahoga River?

Dimit Architects have done a nice job with the various builds in Cleveland. One University Circle ,Flats East Bank Apartments, and Harbor Verandas are 3 prime examples of their work. The renderings shown look very preliminary and I look forward to this being fleshed out. Maybe a lighting detail similar to The Convention Center Hilton.

 

No, @CLE_Millennial, in Lakewood there’s Winton Place, which is 264 feet high. 

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by CleveFan

51 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

No, @CLE_Millennial, in Lakewood there’s Winton Place, which is 264 feet high. 

 

But if he's referring only to the city of Cleveland, then yes, he's correct.

 

1 hour ago, CLE_Millennial said:

Will this be the tallest building in Cleveland west of the Cuyahoga River?

 

1 hour ago, CleveFan said:

No, @CLE_Millennial, in Lakewood there’s Winton Place, which is 264 feet high. 

 

46 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

But if he's referring only to the city of Cleveland, then yes, he's correct.

 

Right now the tallest bldg (or structure that has people working in it) in the City west of the Cuyahoga is the FAA Tower at Hopkins Airport--I believe it is 324 feet.

Edited May 27, 20205 yr by Pugu

I really like how the parking floors add up with the buildings next door. Does a decent job of helping to blend it in. I'm also glad they have parking entrances only on Washington. Traffic from people parking has always been terrible on the viaduct as is, especially in the evenings. Adding more cars heading to/from the garage would have been a nightmare and a (possibly literal) pedestrian killer. Nice bonus if a coffee shop opens there. Not that walking to Rising Star was ever an issue, but I would have loved so much to have a coffee shop when I lived there.

On 5/27/2020 at 10:00 AM, HGRHS said:

I also wish this included a purchase and rehab of the neighboring four story buildings. Although I’d imagine if this plan comes to fruition they won’t sit as is for long...

 

Lol, one of the neighboring buildings (2220 Superior Via.) was rehabbed and is currently occupied (residential and retail/commercial spaces). To see the rehab you can view these past listings for units 5, 6, and 7 (picked these because they were my favorites). And so there's no confusion these are rentals but the leasing agent normally does for sale properties. 

 

As for the other building (2206), the owner wants something like $1.3-1.5 million for it but it needs A LOT of work making a rehab at that purchase price a no-go. Would not want to see that building torn down for a new build though, but don't think the community would get behind that.

 

As for this new development, feel bad for the tenants at 2220 who have roof top decks...some of the balconies in the proposed building come right to the roof and property line and they'll lose their view of downtown, but hey, can't assume your view will stay the same when living in a city (same goes for those in Stonebridge Tower across the street). Wonder if there'll be any structural issue with the proposed building; those three buildings are sisters and I believe were all connected at one point. With that said, doesn't look like too much excavation will have to be done given the grade difference from the viaduct to Washington.

 

**Edited to add, should this thread be relabeled to "West Bank Flats" or something since this, "Bridgeworks" and the 1250 Riverbed proposal are separate from Nautica?

Edited May 28, 20205 yr by andrew0816

Why will they lose their city views? Some of their lake views, yes. But not city views.

50 minutes ago, KJP said:

Why will they lose their city views? Some of their lake views, yes. But not city views.

 

I meant for 2220 and I guess I should've specified their view of downtown will be blocked.

Edited May 28, 20205 yr by andrew0816

Speaking of views. It's kind of like housing developments in the suburbs. Unless you own that bucolic farm field in your back yard there's no guarantee of it staying a field. Same goes for these views. Maybe it's harsh but if existing views are more important than development we're screwed.

The building on the corner there, 2220 where Spaces use to be,  just went thru a fantastic rehab a couple of years ago. I forget who the developer was, but he did a fantastic job restoring it and reactivating the retail spaces. The building to the right, 2206, is not in terrible shape, but definitely does not look the best with the functionally windowless first floor. It has apartments, and a pretty well known babershop attended by some big names (so I'm told) and a recording studio. I don't think there is anything wrong with the building and uses as it currently is, but it definitely could use a storefront reno. Hopefully more development nearby spurs the owners to try and keep up.

9 hours ago, andrew0816 said:

 

Lol, one of the neighboring buildings (2220 Superior Via.) was rehabbed and is currently occupied (residential and retail/commercial spaces). To see the rehab you can view these past listings for units 5, 6, and 7 (picked these because they were my favorites). And so there's no confusion these are rentals but the leasing agent normally does for sale properties. 

 

As for the other building (2206), the owner wants something like $1.3-1.5 million for it but it needs A LOT of work making a rehab at that purchase price a no-go. Would not want to see that building torn down for a new build though, but don't think the community would get behind that.

 

 

 

Wow those are pretty nice.  I pass that building about once a week and I don't think the outside makes it seem like it is rehabbed.  But I'll eat crow on that one...

Love the massing and scale. This area has a ton of potential and could use the density. 

Here's Michelle's article on 2208 Superior Viaduct:
https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/developers-plan-highrise-apartment-tower-along-superior-viaduct

Her article opens by describing the tower as "22- to 25-story", I suppose because Jatsek is quoted as saying the plans are "very, very conceptual".

 

The Crain's article mentions Studios, 1BR, and 2BR floorplans.

As for timing:

 

It mentions a prospective start of construction in the second quarter 2021 while other phrasing has mentioned "Summer" so I assume the later half of the second quarter if that is an optimistic start time, given those two timeframes only intersect by about a week or so...

It also mentions a presentation at a second block club meeting in June to hopefully progress to the more formal city review processes in July.

 

As an extra bonus, here's the prior, 11-story proposal for the property.
https://www.cleveland.com/business/2016/02/apartment_building_11_floors_o.html

Circulating on the interwebs. If you support this project, be there on Monday....