June 13, 20205 yr 28 minutes ago, KJP said: Circulating on the interwebs. If you support this project, be there on Monday.... If it has its own parking garage how will it create increased traffic? How would new investment in a growing area devalue your property? Why live in a city if you are against traffic congestion? This is so idiotic.
June 13, 20205 yr BUT MA VIEWS!!! Really though, the people living in this building mostly strike me as suburbanites who wanted to live Downtown but went for a Downtown-lite option. I've heard similar complaints from all of Stonebridge since its development which is a shame since that area being fully built out as a proper full neighborhood would be such an amazing asset for Cleveland and existing homeowners.
June 13, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Circulating on the interwebs. If you support this project, be there on Monday.... Oh, it grew to 30 stories, lol?
June 13, 20205 yr Totally saw this coming. If I still lived there I'd want to see this built, regardless of the view being blocked - and Its not a stellar view as it is anyways. I don't see how an abandoned and dilapidated structure with a surface lot fronting the viaduct could possibly be better for property values, but maybe these organizers know something I don't.
June 13, 20205 yr I would hope that the city doesn't allow a bunch of NIMBYs to block productive use of the nearby land to preserve a few views.
June 16, 20204 yr Thanks for the update, @KJP! Great news! While the “more parking” piece is blah, I love the new look and am glad this development has support. A total game-changer for the West Bank!
June 16, 20204 yr Glad to hear this is moving forward. The new design is an upgrade. Depending on how the cladding materials translate from the drawing, this building could be quite attractive. Fingers crossed we have a crane next year!
June 16, 20204 yr The revised design looks even better - that’s going to look great in that location!
June 16, 20204 yr MONDAY, JUNE 15, 2020 Talks start for Cleveland's own High Line-type park Above the Flats' West Bank, Cleveland could have its own scaled-down version of New York City's High Line park if early talks bear fruit. The site is the Superior Viaduct that was completed in 1878 but closed to traffic in 1920. It's primary use over the past 20 years is as a parking lot for K&D Group's Stonebridge development that includes apartments, condominiums, restaurants, galleries and offices. The viaduct's former roadway deck, still hosting streetcar tracks from long ago, is largely barren. But several major developments are in the works along the historic span and are prompting talks about higher uses for the sandstone-block viaduct than just a parking lot. The uses being discussed could feature more attractive settings, interpretive historical exhibits, recreational programming in addition to the existing, unique views of the downtown skyline, bridges and Cuyahoga River traffic. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/06/talks-start-for-clevelands-own-high.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20204 yr BTW, I think this makes for an interesting comparison....... Cleveland's Superior Viaduct: New York's High Line: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 16, 20204 yr The only problem is, it's a pedestrian bridge that leads to nowhere, hopefully we can make it that somewhere instead.
June 16, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: MONDAY, JUNE 15, 2020 Talks start for Cleveland's own High Line-type park MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/06/talks-start-for-clevelands-own-high.html Please let this happen! The city needs these kinds of outdoor spaces - they'll only enhance all residential in the area. Doug Price might want to look beyond his personal interests.... Edited June 16, 20204 yr by CleveFan
June 16, 20204 yr that great to make the viaduct more park-like. and also to call price out a bit, especially early on in planning lol, although he should be given considerations as the pioneer developer. for the record the $152M high line cost mentioned was just for the first two sections. 2/3 of that was paid for by the city. the third and final section that wraps around the hudson yards cost $90M more. that was mostly paid for by friends of the highline organization. and the spur section that opened a year ago cost $34M, which i believe the hy developers paid for. a ground level plaza is being built currently around construction at 18st, which i think the developers there are mostly footing, and that will probably be it for the park. also, the $2B in development around the hy mentioned was from nine years ago, when only the first section of it was opened. all sorts of development has occurred since then, from the whitney museum at the southern end to the $25B hy railyard project and much more up there around the northern end. anyhoodee, looking forward to some of that happening around the viaduct and west bank flats. this apt tower could be a tipping point for hurrying that along.
June 16, 20204 yr I think the potential of this projects proximity to the future Irishtown Bend park is really exciting!
June 17, 20204 yr If Doug Price and some of his Stonebridge residents think this is "fine" ... then we have a problem. How this can be seen as the highest and best use for such a unique asset is beyond me. Edited June 17, 20204 yr by mrclifton88
June 19, 20204 yr https://twitter.com/NeotransB/status/1273780531793145856?s=19 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr MONDAY, JUNE 22, 2020 Contestants emerging for Flats development A new name has entered the mix for developing 1250 Riverbed St. on the Flats' West Bank. Joseph Shafran, Chairman/CEO of Paran Management Co. of Cleveland is considering options for redeveloping the site. He joins others in vying for the property, including Cleveland-area developer Scott Wolstein and Washington DC-based Coloma River Capital. The property is owned by 1250 Riverbed Street LLC, an affiliate of a Rochester, NY-based ownership group led by Eliahu Adahan. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/06/contestants-emerging-for-flats.html Edited June 27, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr Can I be honest and say I hope they just renovate those buildings for apts/condos or a hotel and leave it at that. They're perfect for that spot, and I don't want to see a massive skyscraper built out of them. Honestly, I hope the Flats doesn't just turn into a bunch of generic and oversized projects, though I fear that is what is happening. There's such a feel of fine grained urbanism and history in the smaller scale buildings there and the narrow and winding streets that I'd like to see a more "European" style of development with shorter and smaller, but dense buildings.
June 23, 20204 yr I really like the new high rise proposed for the western edge of the viaduct but I don’t have a problem with the new proposal for this structure. It’s very attractive as rendered and keeps the views open at the end of the viaduct.
June 23, 20204 yr i Hope something gets built, but I am not overly confident in Scott Wolstein. As Far as I am concerned his track record is not something to get overly excited about. What iteration are we now going into with the Kennect Pase 3B?
June 23, 20204 yr 4 minutes ago, X said: Can I be honest and say I hope they just renovate those buildings for apts/condos or a hotel and leave it at that. They're perfect for that spot, and I don't want to see a massive skyscraper built out of them. Honestly, I hope the Flats doesn't just turn into a bunch of generic and oversized projects, though I fear that is what is happening. There's such a feel of fine grained urbanism and history in the smaller scale buildings there and the narrow and winding streets that I'd like to see a more "European" style of development with shorter and smaller, but dense buildings. Shafran wasn't able to reveal much, but I gathered in what he said and based on the financing troubles that Coloma River Capital has experienced that Shafran et al are likely planning something smaller-scale. They're partnering with the existing property owner so makes it less likely that they "have" to pursue something tall to recover their acquisition costs. But that's not going to be case for the Nautica riverfront properties. Jacobs is probably going to get something close his asking price ($17 million) for the 5.6 acres he's selling there. If so, you have to build big there to recoup the property investment. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr 48 minutes ago, simplythis said: i Hope something gets built, but I am not overly confident in Scott Wolstein. As Far as I am concerned his track record is not something to get overly excited about. What iteration are we now going into with the Kennect Pase 3B? I think that's more on Akara Partners which is leading the Kenect Cleveland project. I get the impression that Wolstein isn't in the driver seat on that project even though it's a 50/50 partnership. Edited June 23, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr 31 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: I’m liking the scale of this new plan. To be fair, we don't really know what the new scale will be. Just that there's some juice behind it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, KJP said: To be fair, we don't really know what the new scale will be. Just that there's some juice behind it. Where did that conceptual rendering come from?
June 23, 20204 yr 11 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Where did that conceptual rendering come from? From the first plan advanced by Coloma River Capital. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr 10 hours ago, KJP said: Shafran wasn't able to reveal much, but I gathered in what he said and based on the financing troubles that Coloma River Capital has experienced that Shafran et al are likely planning something smaller-scale. They're partnering with the existing property owner so makes it less likely that they "have" to pursue something tall to recover their acquisition costs. But that's not going to be case for the Nautica riverfront properties. Jacobs is probably going to get something close his asking price ($17 million) for the 5.6 acres he's selling there. If so, you have to build big there to recoup the property investment. I'm mostly ok with it on the Nautica surface lots (as long as there's some pedestrian level interest). I'm moreso concerned about losing buildings like the ones in question, or all the great small scale old industrial buildings along Columbus or Center St., etc. For example, on the Nautica land, go ahead and build skyscrapers, but can we please please please save the Harbor Inn?
June 23, 20204 yr A few years ago. I don't know where it stands, as the plans for Nautica are all up in the air.
June 23, 20204 yr 36 minutes ago, X said: I'm mostly ok with it on the Nautica surface lots (as long as there's some pedestrian level interest). I'm moreso concerned about losing buildings like the ones in question, or all the great small scale old industrial buildings along Columbus or Center St., etc. For example, on the Nautica land, go ahead and build skyscrapers, but can we please please please save the Harbor Inn? Agreed! I am not a fan of connecting new towers to old brick buildings like they did with the Cantina Del Rio building several years ago. The west bank is losing the unique character that it once had. Edited June 23, 20204 yr by skiwest
June 23, 20204 yr The city wants to have tall buildings on the West Bank, which is why they raised the height district to 5 (250 ft). After they did that is when these high-rise concepts started coming out. The height districts are lower for other sections of the Flats although there is a small area of HD4 next to the Canal Basin Park, basically across the street from the B&O Station (future terminus of the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic RR with SHW R&D leaving?). Also shows that a Red Line infill station above the Canal Basin Park could be fed by a few 15- to 18-story buildings next to it, plus all of the other stuff built/planned within walking distance. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20204 yr Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m not going to feel sad if there’s some 21st century high rise development on the West Bank - there’s plenty of character in the area and it’s not going to be lost. Progress,Cleveland!
June 23, 20204 yr 4 hours ago, CleveFan said: Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m not going to feel sad if there’s some 21st century high rise development on the West Bank - there’s plenty of character in the area and it’s not going to be lost. Progress,Cleveland! Me either. Let’s do this!
June 23, 20204 yr 6 hours ago, CleveFan said: Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m not going to feel sad if there’s some 21st century high rise development on the West Bank - there’s plenty of character in the area and it’s not going to be lost. Progress,Cleveland! That's not a given, unfortunately.
June 23, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, X said: That's not a given, unfortunately. Too true. You never know in Cleveland... For example, this line from the article: "It isn't known yet if the pair of existing buildings will be retained as part of the new vision".
June 24, 20204 yr 53 minutes ago, PoshSteve said: Too true. You never know in Cleveland... For example, this line from the article: "It isn't known yet if the pair of existing buildings will be retained as part of the new vision". oh those definately would be taken out for what is obviously a nice, but rather standard and uncreative apt bldg. i don’t know what to make of those small existing 1800s structures. the larger L shaped one i think is nice and would make for a cool space for like a bar/restaurant or something that could make use of a a large courtyard. the other tiny garage shed looks even older. nothing fun like that was ever done with them, so seems its not thought of as viable. it does or recently did have some kind of small business there. otoh with a large apt building in its place you get a lot of added people density. i think in the end thats the greater good here.
June 24, 20204 yr Just hate to see any of our old buildings torn down when there’s so much open, build able space on the West Bank. Especially parking lots.
June 24, 20204 yr From the president of the Waterfront District Block Club... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 24, 20204 yr Based on the above posts, is the proposed building on Riverbed that would have been suspended above the existing buildings using trusses dead or in jeopardy?
June 25, 20204 yr 23 hours ago, mrnyc said: oh those definately would be taken out for what is obviously a nice, but rather standard and uncreative apt bldg. i don’t know what to make of those small existing 1800s structures. the larger L shaped one i think is nice and would make for a cool space for like a bar/restaurant or something that could make use of a a large courtyard. the other tiny garage shed looks even older. nothing fun like that was ever done with them, so seems its not thought of as viable. it does or recently did have some kind of small business there. otoh with a large apt building in its place you get a lot of added people density. i think in the end thats the greater good here. Losing the garage shed that's between the viaduct and Washington, where the proposal for the highrise is, is one thing. It would not be missed, especially the surface parking out front. The buildings in question though are the ones at the end of the viaduct on Riverbed. They are pretty substantial (5 and 6 stories) and would be a terrible loss. It was great that the last folks proposed keeping them and adding on top. Now its pretty disheartening to hear the new folks can't even say for sure if they'd keep them or just tear them down. Does the ordinance requiring a plan be in place within x amount of years in order to demo a building extend to this area? Or is that just in downtown on the other side of the river?
June 26, 20204 yr ^ oh maybe i have confused things, but i meant the two buildings on site for the proposal at 2210, across from stonebridge.
June 27, 20204 yr On 6/22/2020 at 11:21 PM, KJP said: MONDAY, JUNE 22, 2020 Contestants emerging for Flats development A new name has entered the mix for developing 1250 Riverbed St. on the Flats' West Bank. Joseph Shafran, Chairman/CEO of Paran Management Co. of Cleveland is considering options for redeveloping the site. He joins others in vying for the property, including Cleveland-area developer Scott Wolstein and Washington DC-based Coloma River Capital. The property is owned by 1250 Riverbed Street LLC, an affiliate of a Rochester, NY-based ownership group led by Eliahu Adahan. MORE: https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/06/contestants-emerging-for-flats.html Sorry. Screwed the pooch on my first attempt at this article. Unfortunately, 1,500 people saw it before I got called out on it. I hope my fixes fixed it. In response to my e-mail to Scott Wolstein in which I apologized for erroneously reporting that Shafran confirmed Wolstein is a prospective investor in the site, Wolstein replied "no worries." ? Edited June 27, 20204 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 28, 20204 yr No prob, @KJP, at this point you’re entitled to a mulligan or two with all the great reporting you’ve brought us. For me, the biggest takeaway is the need to develop the Superior Viaduct into the kind of outstanding public space ;(like a version of NY’s High Line) that will make the area that much more desireable and, in turn, spur even more residential development. One positive domino leading to the next, to invert the old adage. Edited June 28, 20204 yr by CleveFan
July 13, 20204 yr New renderings for the “The Viaduct” - and I gotta say, I’m really blown away by this latest iteration!! I absolutely love the greenery and trees integrated throughout the tower. Edited July 13, 20204 yr by urbanetics_
July 13, 20204 yr Wow. I. Love. This. Maybe it’s just the initial shock of seeing it haha but this is a really nicely designed tower. More of this please!!!!
July 13, 20204 yr There’s just something about this design that I absolutely love!! I’d love to see 10+ more of these scattered elsewhere downtown and throughout the flats?
July 13, 20204 yr That design looks exactly like much of the new construction I see in my travels around the US. While some may see the look as derivative I view it as the look of a modern city. Our problem IMO is it probably won't like like that if/when it does get built. The Lumen was a superb design until the review board had to muck it up with those silly stripes. There's a reason why we struggle so much in this town and it starts with leadership on many fronts.
July 13, 20204 yr Now that's a good looking tower. I love the color scheme, which may be down to the trees and vegetation, but also the black outlining. I definitely hope those stay a part of it. I think they are what makes it stand out apart from the typical blue glass towers across the US (which I also wouldn't mind seeing more of here).
July 13, 20204 yr Agree with everyone above - a beautiful looking tower. And almost every unit in that tower will have a sensational view, either of downtown, the river, the lake , the Gold Coast skyline or some stunning sunsets. It will also really add to the feeling of connection between the downtown and the Flats and out to Ohio City. Can’t wait for this to rise! Edited July 13, 20204 yr by CleveFan
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