Haha, some friends of mine lived in one of those. It was about like an old farmhouse rental in the middle of a cornfield in Pickaway county inside.

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

A lot of the expensive houses on the east side are still rocking knob & tube wiring.  That likely means no insulation in the attic and at least $10,000 if not $20,000+ to fully remedy the situation.  A lot of houses around Cincinnati had a circuit breaker put in and had part of the house rewired sometime after 1950 to allow modern kitchen appliances and a washer & dryer in the basement, but didn't have the house fully rewired.  To have it done right costs a ton because you will need a crew to come in and do pretty extensive plaster repair or hang new drywall in spots.  It depends completely on the design of the home.  But if the house hasn't been rewired, there's a chance it wasn't because the estimate back in 1962 was so high. 

 

Speaking of which, the Elmwood Place house looks like it's not correctly wired.  The giveaway are the plugs in the baseboard.  Most rewired houses have boxes outside the baseboard.  From what I'm seeing I think that house needs about $10,000 in work to be minimally liveable:

 

-wiring and insulation is at least $5,000...would want a hookup for a washer and dryer too

-new carpet/floors $1,000-2,000

-new kitchen appliances and perhaps moving around some plumbing and electric $2,000

-repaint interior, obviously $500 to do yourself

 

You could get by with space heaters (assuming the place is correctly wired) but long-term you would want to replace whatever gnarly old furnace they're not showing us.  Oh, and a hot water heater is about $600. 

 

 

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

 

 

You know you should get some kind of special "True 3C'er" badge. It's not hard to find 2C'ers on UO but someone who has done multiple years in all 3Cs is rare.

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

 

 

You know you should get some kind of special "True 3C'er" badge. It's not hard to find 2C'ers on UO but someone who has done multiple years in all 3Cs is rare.

 

Heh. I can't even look at it like that. All three cities are entirely different from one another, despite being in the same state. I feel like I'm 2000 miles from home. Columbus is closer to Indianapolis, culturally, than Cleveland. Cincinnati is probably more similar to Louisville than Columbus, etc. What a bizarre state we live in. And how come no one talks about this? What's up with Clevelanders and corned beef? Corned beef is everywhere in Cleveland. I didn't even know what corned beef was, before I moved up here and I'm only from 2 and 4 hours south of here. Oh, and Polish Boys. Those are everywhere.

 

We're going to need more cafeterias here in Columbus if we want to be like Indy.

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

 

 

You know you should get some kind of special "True 3C'er" badge. It's not hard to find 2C'ers on UO but someone who has done multiple years in all 3Cs is rare.

 

Heh. I can't even look at it like that. All three cities are entirely different from one another, despite being in the same state. I feel like I'm 2000 miles from home. Columbus is closer to Indianapolis, culturally, than Cleveland. Cincinnati is probably more similar to Louisville than Columbus, etc. What a bizarre state we live in. And how come no one talks about this? What's up with Clevelanders and corned beef? Corned beef is everywhere in Cleveland. I didn't even know what corned beef was, before I moved up here and I'm only from 2 and 4 hours south of here. Oh, and Polish Boys. Those are everywhere.

 

 

Eastern Europeans.  Jews.  We have ethnic neighborhoods here in Cleveland. 

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

 

 

You know you should get some kind of special "True 3C'er" badge. It's not hard to find 2C'ers on UO but someone who has done multiple years in all 3Cs is rare.

 

Heh. I can't even look at it like that. All three cities are entirely different from one another, despite being in the same state. I feel like I'm 2000 miles from home. Columbus is closer to Indianapolis, culturally, than Cleveland. Cincinnati is probably more similar to Louisville than Columbus, etc. What a bizarre state we live in. And how come no one talks about this? What's up with Clevelanders and corned beef? Corned beef is everywhere in Cleveland. I didn't even know what corned beef was, before I moved up here and I'm only from 2 and 4 hours south of here. Oh, and Polish Boys. Those are everywhere.

 

 

Eastern Europeans.  Jews.  We have ethnic neighborhoods here in Cleveland. 

 

Columbus has ethnic neighborhoods too.  They just aren't white ethnic neighborhoods.  So I understand why David is a bit confused.

Right. Those very basic Victorian Farmhouses off of Erie. I had a few friends that lived over there. Not well-kept at all. Granted, it was right before the real estate bubble busted in 2008 but those dumps were going for like $400k. Same house in Price Hill (and I'm sure the same ones exist, in similar condition) would probably go for $60-$70k at the time.

 

Cincinnatians are some of the worst brand-wh*res when it comes to premium neighborhoods or those perceived as such. It's bad here in Shaker Heights, too. They spend all their money on landscaping and exterior work and everything looks hunky-dory on the outside, but you walk inside and it's the house from the movie, "The Money Pit."

 

 

You know you should get some kind of special "True 3C'er" badge. It's not hard to find 2C'ers on UO but someone who has done multiple years in all 3Cs is rare.

 

Heh. I can't even look at it like that. All three cities are entirely different from one another, despite being in the same state. I feel like I'm 2000 miles from home. Columbus is closer to Indianapolis, culturally, than Cleveland. Cincinnati is probably more similar to Louisville than Columbus, etc. What a bizarre state we live in. And how come no one talks about this? What's up with Clevelanders and corned beef? Corned beef is everywhere in Cleveland. I didn't even know what corned beef was, before I moved up here and I'm only from 2 and 4 hours south of here. Oh, and Polish Boys. Those are everywhere.

 

 

Eastern Europeans.  Jews.  We have ethnic neighborhoods here in Cleveland. 

 

Columbus has ethnic neighborhoods too.  They just aren't white ethnic neighborhoods.  So I understand why David is a bit confused.

 

Please explain.  I'm pretty quick, but I don't get it.  I pretty familiar with CBUS as I went to OSU and my nephew/nieces attend OSU so I'm there occasionally.  But I don't see the same type of ethnic neighborhoods/enclaves we have in Cleveland proper. 

Columbus has a long history of welcoming refugees. Lao (Laos,) Cambodian, Vietnamese, Somali, etc. There's a lot of enclaves. They just aren't failed attempts at neighborhood branding.

 

My freshman year, I went to "Independence H.S". on "Refugee Rd." Haha.

Columbus has a long history of welcoming refugees. Lao (Laos,) Cambodian, Vietnamese, Somali, etc. There's a lot of enclaves. They just aren't failed attempts at neighborhood branding.

What do you mean by "neighborhood" branding.  Our neighborhoods have generally been places where people from certain countries, ethnicities gather and set down roots.  Some of those area's are still in tact. 

Little Itally (we had 2/3 of those),

The area in the 30, before construction of the inner belt had Italian (Big Italy) & German neighborhoods

China Town. 

Slavic Village = Polish

Northern Ohio City = Irish

Southern Ohio City = German

Newburgh, & St. Clair Superior = Slovakian, Croation or Slovenian

Ukranian = by the zoo

Hungarians = buckeye/woodhill

Kinsman and Hough were Jewish

 

I could go on.

 

today Little Italy, Collinwood, Tremont, Ohio City, Asian Village, Detroit Shoreway, Slavic Village, Brooklyn Center, still have their ethnic roots.  In other areas new groups pop up like along Lorain.  My uncle went to Lincoln-West when it first opened, he was one of the few non white kids.  When my cousins attended Lincoln west in the 80s it went from primarily Irish, Polish, German.  Now the area and school is mostly Latin.  Mexican, PR, Panamanian, Salvadorian, Cuban now Colombian and Venezuelan's area moving in.

 

My point is I could go to one of those areas and shop at a market for something ethnic.  For instance for a lot items on today's dinner menu, my mom and I had to shop on the Westside.  We cant get the cerdito in Shaker.  We can get the ingredients for pasteles in Shaker.  I wanted to get parranda for my Abuelo, neices and nephews, but they are hard to get.  We still have great ethnic neighborhoods in the city and in the burbs, like Euclid, Parma, Lakewood, that you can find ethnic wares and cuisine.  It's not just "branding" a neighborhood.

By long history of welcoming refugees, I meant in the last 40 years up until now with the ethnicities I mentioned. I've been to Slavic Village, Buckeye-Woodhill, etc. All I see is a bunch of black people walking around. I don't see your point in any of this. No one in Northern Ohio City is priding themselves as Irish and no one in Southern Ohio City is identifying themselves as German. Most people in Cleveland have assimilated and basically just identify themselves by their race and as a Clevelander, more than anything.  Cleveland clearly has eastern European influence in its architecture and food but it's not like there's neighborhoods full of Polish or Ukranian people where one could travel there and experience their rich culture in 2016.  As far as Jews - every city has a rich Jewish suburb. Cincinnati has Amberly Village. Columbus has Bexley. Cleveland has Beachwood, etc. There's no sense in discussing what Kinsman and Hough or what any other place "were."

 

This discussion should be moved to another thread. Maybe Off-topic lol.

 

Can you all imagine if Columbus branded a neighborhood "Little Somali?" You can't actually do that anymore, if the ethnicity still lives there. Our culture is too PC, now.

 

 

MTS, you have to venture forth to the Morse Rd. area for the new ethnic enclaves. The area was mostly white when you were at OSU in the '80s.

MTS, you have to venture forth to the Morse Rd. area for the new ethnic enclaves. The area was mostly white when you were at OSU in the '80s.

 

Like I said, within the last 40 years (after MTS graduated from college.)

One level living right in the heart of Northside! Eat in kitchen w/stainless appliances, modern luxe bathroom + off street parking - everything you need and want! Walkable to the business district, parks, and greenspaces. Join Tiny House Nation and enjoy financial freedom, a simpler lifestyle, and limit your environmental footprint!

 

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1534282/4231-Mad-Anthony-St-Northside-OH-45223

That thing sold for $17,000 in 2015 and the hardwood floors needs sanding and refinishing.

this should probably be on the hipsters thread, but apparantly tiny houses are passe in cali, #vanlife is all the rage and those old vw vans are particularly hot stuff:

 

 

 

AMERICAN CHRONICLES  APRIL 24, 2017 ISSUE

 

#VANLIFE, THE BOHEMIAN SOCIAL-MEDIA MOVEMENT

 

What began as an attempt at a simpler life quickly became a life-style brand.

By Rachel Monroe

 

 

Emily King and Corey Smith had been dating for five months when they took a trip to Central America, in February, 2012. At a surf resort in Nicaragua, Smith helped a lanky American named Foster Huntington repair the dings in his board. When the waves were choppy, the three congregated in the resort’s hammock zone, where the Wi-Fi signal was strongest. One afternoon, Huntington listened to the couple have a small argument. Something about their fond irritation made him think that they’d be suited to spending long periods of time together in a confined space. “You guys would be great in a van,” he told them.

 

 

more -- or less:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/04/24/vanlife-the-bohemian-social-media-movement

 

 

 

Here is a nice overview of small-lot single-family homes in Japan:

 

It appears that the minimum lot size in Japan is about 650 square feet, so similar to the small lot ordinance in Los Angeles, although this video doesn't show any examples of row housing.  Not sure if it exists there or not. 

Home Depot now selling a yuppie backyard shack:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Studio-Shed-Telluride-12-ft-x-10-ft-Residential-Quality-Backyard-Studio-19197-8/301778430?cm_mmc=socialmedia|FY117|%20FY17%20|%20DD%20|DPA%20|%20D59%20|%20D59%20|&k_clickid=8342dc8c-0e57-481f-baa9-70f48774aa0b

Then there's all those "Free Buicks" from the early 2000s purchased new by seniors that are now almost exclusively driven by teens since nobody is willing to pay for them.

 

Okay, off topic I know, but seriously if someone wants to make some money they should buy/collect them up, fix them up, and ship them to China.  The reason Buick exists and Pontiac and Oldsmobile don't is mainly their popularity there.

Here is a nice overview of small-lot single-family homes in Japan:

 

It appears that the minimum lot size in Japan is about 650 square feet, so similar to the small lot ordinance in Los Angeles, although this video doesn't show any examples of row housing.  Not sure if it exists there or not. 

 

 

pretty sure there are mostly only historic wood row houses from the edo era left (called nagaya as opposed to the classic old machiya homes).

 

Live in a concrete sewer pipe:

http://www.businessinsider.com/hong-kong-housing-water-tubes-james-law-cybertecture-2018-1/#in-hong-kong-many-people-live-in-squalid-conditions-or-in-partition-dwellings-as-there-are-extremely-high-rents-housing-costs-and-inadequate-public-housing-he-said-the-opod-is-an-inexpensive-alternative-9

^^ Reminds me of Bruce Willis' apt in Fifth Element.

Seems a good potential concept to handle our homeless crisis. The $15k price tag could come down considerably, I'd imagine.

Yeah, I always wondered why the whole shipping-container-turned-house thing hasn't been done to help the homeless nationally.

Seems a good potential concept to handle our homeless crisis. The $15k price tag could come down considerably, I'd imagine.

 

I'm not sure about the R value of concrete pipe.  Might work in a southern climate but probably not in the snowy north. 

It's basically nothing. These would have an R-value less than a typical window.

 

But as they're designed for Hong Kong, it makes sense.

 

There are a million options out there for super cheap methods of housing the homeless or those who don't want to have a ton of space or those who aren't making a ton of money and can't afford a traditional apartment but could afford some sort of pod.

 

But they're essentially entirely regulated out of the realm of possibility by zoning and building code, so there's really no point to having that conversation, at least in the US.

$190,000 "kinda" tiny 1-bedroom house in Northside:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1586678/4240-Fergus-St-Northside-OH-45223

 

6-bedroom multi-family 3 miles west for $135,000:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1587069/2424-Ferguson-Rd-Westwood-OH-45238

Stolen tiny house has been returned:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/womans-tiny-house-stolen-from-south-city-found-in-jefferson-co/ar-BBRaSIh?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=LENDHP

The Boston Globe finally figured out stuff I was saying online years ago:

http://realestate.boston.com/buying/2018/10/03/are-mobile-homes-answer-to-affordable-housing/

Tiny Houses, the play.  In Cincinnati's smallest theater:

https://www.cincyplay.com/productions/tiny-houses

These things in Cincinnati built 2017-18 are now occupied:

 

 

Edited October 18, 20195 yr by jmecklenborg

If I wanted to just....build a tiny house, could I do that? lol

As long as local zoning and building code allows, yes.

20 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

These things in Cincinnati built 2017-18 are now occupied:

 

 

I love these. Do you have any idea of the square footage of each and the footprint they take up?

17 hours ago, Zyrokai said:

If I wanted to just....build a tiny house, could I do that? lol

 

I couldn't.  I have too much furniture and too may pairs of shoes!

Edited October 19, 20195 yr by MyTwoSense

16 hours ago, Toddguy said:

I love these. Do you have any idea of the square footage of each and the footprint they take up?

 

No but they have full basements with bathrooms in the basements.  So they are technically 2-bed, 2-bath homes with the kitchen + "living space" on the ground-level floor.  I suspect that people will use the basement as the TV/living room. 

3 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

No but they have full basements with bathrooms in the basements.  So they are technically 2-bed, 2-bath homes with the kitchen + "living space" on the ground-level floor.  I suspect that people will use the basement as the TV/living room. 

I can't even do a full stretch in one of these toy houses!

Per the auditor, the couple on the left bought theirs for $210,000 and the guy on the right bought the other for $232,000.  That's actually not a bad price as compared to new 2-bedroom condos in that area which are usually $300k and up.  Plus, there is no HOA fee.  Still, as you can see in the photos from the listing, things are pretty tight. 

 

Also, I heard that the price of these could have been lower but the lots they were given by the city (or whoever gave them the land) required a retaining wall.  You can see the wall in one of the photos, and it added tens of thousands to the project cost.  That's lesson #1 in Cincinnati: always, always buy a level lot.  The hills are unstable and require walls and/or exotic geotechnical work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is the basement "bedroom"/family room:

 

 

 

The "master" bedroom:

 

Look at that retaining wall...that's some major $$$. 

 

 

Edited October 20, 20195 yr by jmecklenborg

4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

That's lesson #1 in Cincinnati: always, always buy a level lot.  The hills are unstable and require walls and/or exotic geotechnical work. 

i think that was part of the original concept of this project (which began through a People’s Liberty grant) though- the houses were supposed to be a lot less expensive and they were going to be something that could fit into all the vacant parcels on the hillside streets- increasing population and affordability 

On 10/20/2019 at 8:43 AM, thebillshark said:

i think that was part of the original concept of this project (which began through a People’s Liberty grant) though- the houses were supposed to be a lot less expensive and they were going to be something that could fit into all the vacant parcels on the hillside streets- increasing population and affordability 

The problem is that this project took normal sized lots and put a very low density development on it. I am all for adding small units in the back of existing lots or weirdly shaped lots, but this seems to be a lot of wasted open space. I mean the parking pad alone is as big as the footprint of the house.

4 hours ago, mcmicken said:

The problem is that this project took normal sized lots and put a very low density development on it. I am all for adding small units in the back of existing lots or weirdly shaped lots, but this seems to be a lot of wasted open space. I mean the parking pad alone is as big as the footprint of the house.

 

I believe that the city irrationally required them to do the parking pads.  I met the guy who designed these about 3~ years ago but haven't seen him since.  From what I heard there was a lot of "mission creep" that wasn't his fault.  Supposedly the city refused to bend on a few common-sense zoning waivers, including the parking pads, which drove the costs WAY higher than what could have been the case otherwise.    

7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I believe that the city irrationally required them to do the parking pads.  I met the guy who designed these about 3~ years ago but haven't seen him since.  From what I heard there was a lot of "mission creep" that wasn't his fault.  Supposedly the city refused to bend on a few common-sense zoning waivers, including the parking pads, which drove the costs WAY higher than what could have been the case otherwise.    

Brad did get stymied a lot trying to get these through an uncooperative building/zoning department. I supported his project in concept, but the actual execution did not result in a good project from density/urban standpoint.

Form-based codes are scary.  

2 hours ago, mcmicken said:

Brad did get stymied a lot trying to get these through an uncooperative building/zoning department. I supported his project in concept, but the actual execution did not result in a good project from density/urban standpoint.

 

These strike me as backyard cottages that happen to be right up on the street.  A complete written story explaining how these came to be would be pretty interesting. 

On 10/19/2019 at 2:52 PM, jmecklenborg said:

 

No but they have full basements with bathrooms in the basements.  So they are technically 2-bed, 2-bath homes with the kitchen + "living space" on the ground-level floor.  I suspect that people will use the basement as the TV/living room. 

I wish they could mass produce these types of small homes to be delivered and assembled on lots. So much infill could happen in urban areas on vacant lots or in place of or incorporating backyard garages. It would be so much cheaper(than what these cost) and probably a dozen or so different models would do. Do you think anything like this is possible?  

 

Of course you would need the zoning to allow this type of thing(allowing garage conversions/replacements in alleys). So many garages in back of homes with alleys are not even used and just store tools, junk, etc. It would never fly in areas like Clintonville or German Village, but maybe in other urban neighborhoods close to these areas where the Nimby/Museumication of neighborhood thing is not so strong and they might welcome something like this.

Edited October 22, 20195 yr by Toddguy

^Manufactured homes have been zoned out of most cities for 50 years.  

8 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Manufactured homes have been zoned out of most cities for 50 years.  

Maybe Manufactured homes is not quite what I was thinking...maybe more like home kits or something? I am not talking about Mobile homes here. Just kits with everything provided that can be assembled on site...sort of like the Ikea furniture of housing? If it is done right why zone it out? I imagine the zoning out of 50 years ago was directed towards trailers and mobile homes-we have come along way since then and need affordable housing-especially in urban areas where the demand for it is high. 

This Old House did something like that back in the day (not sure if it was the full program or just a segment).  I think it was a three-flat that came in either three or six pieces that was then bolted together onsite.  Japan has a strong history of this sort of thing.  Modular construction might be a better term.  The complicating factor is that the foundation still needs to be in place beforehand, and that's a major expense that isn't touched.  Plus, it requires a crane to hoist the single-wide-sized pieces into place.  If that's even possible on a tight lot or hilly street, the logistics of staging the assembly can be a real hassle because of trees, power lines, rain, wind, etc.  

 

I think some sort of prefab or modular foundation system would be more of a boon, especially here with our unstable hillsides.  No matter how much efficiency you get from prefabbing the upper part of the building, you lose it to the bespoke foundation with five different cross-sections, retaining walls, and piers.  Of course I have no idea how you might do such a "one size fits all" foundation system, which is probably getting into graphene and carbon fiber territory.  Then you need some pretty sophisticated machinery to excavate and set these things.  It's a hard problem for sure.  

 

Beyond that there's middle-ground modular systems such as ICF (insulated concrete form) buildings that have some penetration in the residential market but are mainly found in midrise hotel construction for now.  Those are basically hollow styrofoam lego blocks that are then filled with concrete.  They're not just for foundations but all the exterior walls.  They're best for buildings with punched window openings (hence the hotel preference) instead of large spans of curtain wall or crazy shapes.  They also tend to be stucco buildings since that's the easiest and cheapest way to cover the foam, but that doesn't mean there aren't other options.  Thermal and structural performance is excellent, and while cranes aren't usually necessary, a concrete pumper usually is.  SIPS (structural insulated panel system) is the most likely to break more into residential markets.  Those are structural panels made up of styrofoam in the middle and plywood glued to each side.  So instead of "stick built" it's "panel built."  Insulation performance is also very good, and they're more flexible than ICF, but they're also likely to require a crane.  

 

So the more manufactured/prebuilt/modular you get, the more equipment and logistics you need to do the onsite assembly, even if it's very quick.  The kit-built Sears type home is probably the low-hanging fruit, but I think the variability of local codes (even in today's era of the International Residential Code), inspectors, and zoning constraints mean it's just too difficult to make something that fits even a majority of potential customers/locations.