I considered posting this in the Career Networking thread but decided to start a new one. Mods please move if you feel it fits there or in any other thread.

 

How many of you guys have careers related to urbanism, planning, etc in Ohio or elsewhere?

 

I'm a CPA, age 28. I worked for five years doing government audits for a private firm subcontracted through the Ohio Auditor of State. I've audited countless cities, townships, villages, counties, and school districts around Ohio. Then I quit and I'm currently on a "sabbatical" in Europe, fulfilling a goal of travel - I taught English in an Italian school for a while and I've been travelling for another while, but it's ending soon and as a matter of fact I'll be flying back into Hopkins a month from today.

 

I've been planning on going into urban planning for over a year, thanks to many influences including but not limited to UO. I'm actually already accepted into Cleveland State and Ohio State's masters programs and I deferred them both to Fall 2017.

 

If money and time were no object it'd be no question, but I can't help but have a little bit of cold feet when you factor in the financial aspects of it. From a strictly financial standpoint, it's a bad decision. 2+ years lost wages, and then planning probably has worse job prospects than accounting and lower salaries. And I'd also probably have to go back into student debt. I'd be able to pay for a decent chunk from savings, and there are scholarships and tuition waivers I'd be up for at both schools (decisions won't be made until winter/springtime), but still there'd probably be 10 or 20k of debt. I borrowed 50k for undergrad and I hated it so much I paid it off early. I hate debt and I'm not eager to repeat the experience. Continuing to work in accounting would probably go smoothly and I'd be able to reach my financial goals especially home ownership way more quickly.

 

I felt bored and uninspired in accounting and I really do care about and am interested in this stuff we talk about on UO and I'd love to contribute to redevelopment of one of our great cities. I also am generally somebody who enjoys school so I actually look forward to that aspect.

 

But I'd hate to invest all that time and money and come out in a student debt hole and have a hard time finding a job with decent pay. I don't need to be a rich man but I'd like a career where I could eventually get to high five figures or low six figures.

 

If any of you work in the field and can give your thoughts on job and financial prospects and also career satisfaction, please do.

 

Alternatively, if you think there's a way to skip grad school and get involved in urban redevelopment in Ohio with my current qualifications that would be great too. Sometimes I look at job postings in the city governments as well as with developers but I feel like it's tough to break out of an accounting role.

I went to school for, and used to do, something in this career field.

 

You need to sharpen your focus on what you want to DO.  Not career field or academic interest, but day to day activities and what you want as your accomplishments when you're done.  That's what it is all going to come down to for you when you are doing it.  If you want to write general neighborhood or city plans, work on a zoning board or design review board, then urban planning is indeed what you want to do.  If you want to actually do physical design of buildings and neighborhoods (even in the above noted plans) you need to look into Arch, Landscape Arch, or Urban Design.  Beware, though, that those fields are more specialized and will require you to go for more than just your Masters.  You may need to go back for undergrad work after demonstrating a portfolio of prior design work!

 

The good news is that if what you want most is to contribute to the creation of actual development projects then your background in accounting can be valuable to a developer.  You can buttress it with knowledge of real estate finance and analysis, contract law and management, construction estimating or management, marketing, or whatever other business skills you may have.

 

When I worked as a project manager at a local community development corporation I felt that I would have been better served knowing any of the above things than I was by my background in urban planning (I did have some real estate skills from my planning education).  CDC's tend to hire from planning backgrounds, but that is more a function of the employee pool interested in those positions than a function of the value of planning skills.

I think you answered your own question: financially, it doesn't make sense.  :oops:

 

There are lots of jobs in related fields such as city administration that you could grow into. You have a great start as a CPA.

I think you answered your own question: financially, it doesn't make sense.  :oops:

 

 

Yes, but there's lots of things people do that aren't the optimal move for their net worth. It's not the only thing. And I say that as somebody who is quite financially motivated.

 

The questions are 1)will the perceived nonfinancial benefits pan out, and if so will they be worth the financial pain? And 2)will the financial pain be manageable or unmanageable?

 

The perceived nonfinancial benefits are greater intellectual stimulation at work, working with people who are more aligned with my values and lifestyle, and being able to affect change that I care about.

I went to school for, and used to do, something in this career field.

 

You need to sharpen your focus on what you want to DO.  Not career field or academic interest, but day to day activities and what you want as your accomplishments when you're done.  That's what it is all going to come down to for you when you are doing it.  If you want to write general neighborhood or city plans, work on a zoning board or design review board, then urban planning is indeed what you want to do.  If you want to actually do physical design of buildings and neighborhoods (even in the above noted plans) you need to look into Arch, Landscape Arch, or Urban Design.  Beware, though, that those fields are more specialized and will require you to go for more than just your Masters.  You may need to go back for undergrad work after demonstrating a portfolio of prior design work!

 

The good news is that if what you want most is to contribute to the creation of actual development projects then your background in accounting can be valuable to a developer.  You can buttress it with knowledge of real estate finance and analysis, contract law and management, construction estimating or management, marketing, or whatever other business skills you may have.

 

When I worked as a project manager at a local community development corporation I felt that I would have been better served knowing any of the above things than I was by my background in urban planning (I did have some real estate skills from my planning education).  CDC's tend to hire from planning backgrounds, but that is more a function of the employee pool interested in those positions than a function of the value of planning skills.

 

I'm not a designer at all and view myself as a policy  and economics person and/or idea guy. Basically how do we set the stage to make the city grow organically in ways that make it more walkable or transit accessible, vibrant, sustainable, etc. How do we take advantage of the recent upspike in demand for urban living in this state (as evidenced by the rents) to shape the city for the better going forward.

 

Real estate and development would definitely be an interest as well and I could see myself working for a developer. (I a separate but related ambition to buy and rehab a duplex and try my hand at landlording)

 

Also I love maps and computers so I'd probably be good at gis but wouldn't want to get pigeonholed into it.

 

I want to build on, not abandon my accounting background. And also my background is specifically governmental accounting and municipal finance so it fits well. I am attracted to planning in part because it's multidisciplinary... I felt accounting was just far too specialized if that makes sense. I know specialization often=$, but I felt like I was going to work all day using my brain power on accounting standards, and then coming home and reading about the things I actually cared about. And i just think, why not try to work in the things I care about?

Hey MU! I went to Ohio State for City and Regional Planning and work as an urban planner in Cleveland. A few thoughts:

An accounting degree, as mentioned, would be tremendously helpful in Urban Planning. Because of the need to understand municipal finances, that would be a huge boost to have both an urban issues and financial issues background. You would have a leg up in certain instances.

 

Ohio State is a very good policy-based school, which sounds like what you are interested in. The tuition waiver program has its limitations and requires you have an internship--of which there are plenty. However, when I went there, most tuition waivers only covered half your time there. You can be smart about your money and only take out money for loans, not for living. All the internship pay--some better than others.

 

While I have been lucky to get into a planning position out of my Masters, my classmates have had a mixed bag. Some are in planning, some are in related fields, and a few never used their degree. I personally am extremely happy with the decision.

 

One immediate thought I had was this recent position at Detroit Shoreway in Cleveland:

http://www.detroitshoreway.org/employment.aspx

They are hiring an accountant for their office. May be a foot in the door or at least an opportunity to explore. Not sure if it fits your job-dreams, but it was a thought. Good luck! I'm happy to chat more---PM me or reply

mu2010:  my thoughts are go for it. you're interested enough to be posting here all these years plus even applied to planning schools. unless, of course, you're getting cold feet and posing the question here looking for a way out, for people to say, 'no, don't do it.' I say, if your heart is in it, go for it. The money will come, you can always make that work. Pay at first may be low but over time will increase. You could also do accounting work on the side if need be, say people's and companies' taxes/accounting if you need to supplement your income in the first few years. Or, as some folks here have suggested, you could leverage your accounting background into your planning field. Or just plan for lesser funds in the first few years and pour your heart into it. If, 5,6,7 years from now, you find you've made a mistake or don't like, you can always go back to accounting---and with the planning/public perspective to add to your quals--or try something new. Leaving the safety of what we know can be scary, but its also exciting. I say, go for the planning degree! (Hope this helps.)

This may help as well:

https://www.planning.org/salary/summary/

I went to graduate planning school at CSU and have found the degree to be mostly worthless. I enjoyed the work while in school, but I'm not sure how much value employers put on the degree. If you're really interested in CDC work, I would suggest volunteering. You'll save yourself a lot of money and will probably be just as likely to find a permanent position. I'll also add, having worked for both a CDC and a private developer, the private sector has much more potential to be rewarding both professionally and financially. I'm certainly a bit cynical about the CDC establishment in Cleveland, but I find most of the organizations to be inefficient and ineffectual.

I went to school for, and used to do, something in this career field.

 

You need to sharpen your focus on what you want to DO.  Not career field or academic interest, but day to day activities and what you want as your accomplishments when you're done.  That's what it is all going to come down to for you when you are doing it.  If you want to write general neighborhood or city plans, work on a zoning board or design review board, then urban planning is indeed what you want to do.  If you want to actually do physical design of buildings and neighborhoods (even in the above noted plans) you need to look into Arch, Landscape Arch, or Urban Design.  Beware, though, that those fields are more specialized and will require you to go for more than just your Masters.  You may need to go back for undergrad work after demonstrating a portfolio of prior design work!

 

The good news is that if what you want most is to contribute to the creation of actual development projects then your background in accounting can be valuable to a developer.  You can buttress it with knowledge of real estate finance and analysis, contract law and management, construction estimating or management, marketing, or whatever other business skills you may have.

 

When I worked as a project manager at a local community development corporation I felt that I would have been better served knowing any of the above things than I was by my background in urban planning (I did have some real estate skills from my planning education).  CDC's tend to hire from planning backgrounds, but that is more a function of the employee pool interested in those positions than a function of the value of planning skills.

 

I'm not a designer at all and view myself as a policy  and economics person and/or idea guy. Basically how do we set the stage to make the city grow organically in ways that make it more walkable or transit accessible, vibrant, sustainable, etc. How do we take advantage of the recent upspike in demand for urban living in this state (as evidenced by the rents) to shape the city for the better going forward.

 

Real estate and development would definitely be an interest as well and I could see myself working for a developer. (I a separate but related ambition to buy and rehab a duplex and try my hand at landlording)

 

Also I love maps and computers so I'd probably be good at gis but wouldn't want to get pigeonholed into it.

 

I want to build on, not abandon my accounting background. And also my background is specifically governmental accounting and municipal finance so it fits well. I am attracted to planning in part because it's multidisciplinary... I felt accounting was just far too specialized if that makes sense. I know specialization often=$, but I felt like I was going to work all day using my brain power on accounting standards, and then coming home and reading about the things I actually cared about. And i just think, why not try to work in the things I care about?

 

A couple thoughts are occurring to me based on this.  Banks have community reinvestment departments, I know they hire from urban studies or planning school because I was offered such a position before going off to grad school instead.  I would think someone with an accounting background and passion for and knowledge of urban issues could garner some interest.  Also, have you considered academia- Universities or think tanks like Urban Land Institute?  You would need more schooling for that, but it seems like you're looking to ponder the big questions of urban redevelopment more so than do specific plans and projects.

Hey everyone, thanks for all the replies. It's a huge help. I'll try to do some line by line responses. It's going to be a lot of words, but it's important to me!

 

mu2010:  my thoughts are go for it. you're interested enough to be posting here all these years plus even applied to planning schools. unless, of course, you're getting cold feet and posing the question here looking for a way out, for people to say, 'no, don't do it.' I say, if your heart is in it, go for it.

 

I think my heart's in it - at least in trying. I had no doubts until a few days ago when, I finally sat down and ran the numbers on how much this degree is really going to cost me and it's put a sinking feeling in my stomach the past few days. Age also comes into play - I'd be 31 and graduating and starting over, and you know, it just delays all those other aspects of adulthood. I'm currently single so no pressure coming from a girlfriend or anything, but still.

 

One thing that I love about the OSU program is that you're required to do an internship from Day 1. I think it's invaluable to be able to try something before you put years into a degree. (not to mention you have some income) My fear would be that after putting all the time and money into it, I'd land a job and it'd be monotonous or the bureaucracy would be frustrating (as I know it can be) and I end up unfulfilled as I was doing auditing. Because then it's like, what was it all for.

 

BUT I think these are the situations in life where you don't know until you try. If I now were to get a municipal finance job I think I'd always wonder what could have been. So I'm still leaning towards doing it. Just doing some due diligence.

 

I went to graduate planning school at CSU and have found the degree to be mostly worthless. I enjoyed the work while in school, but I'm not sure how much value employers put on the degree. If you're really interested in CDC work, I would suggest volunteering. You'll save yourself a lot of money and will probably be just as likely to find a permanent position. I'll also add, having worked for both a CDC and a private developer, the private sector has much more potential to be rewarding both professionally and financially. I'm certainly a bit cynical about the CDC establishment in Cleveland, but I find most of the organizations to be inefficient and ineffectual.

 

I'm going to challenge you a bit on the worthless thing but it's only because I'd like more insight on why you feel that way. If you could go back to the day before you accepted to go to CSU, what would you do differently? Right now even if there's an employer somewhere who would hire me even without a degree, I have no idea of the workings of anything or where to look or anything like that. I vaguely know what I'm interested in doing - helping redevelop urban areas - but I don't really know the nuts and bolts other than things I've picked up from a few books I've read and news I keep up with. The degree would teach me those things but also expose me to various directions I could go and that's key. Not to mention networking.

 

If I were to go volunteer for a CDC I wouldn't know what to volunteer for. I don't feel I know enough about what CDCs even do - I imagine they are liaisons between developers and the city and they lobby to get development to go the way they like - but what are the day to day tasks involved in that, I really don't know. I'm not dead set on CDCs by the way, that was just an example that got used above. I could see myself liking real estate development in the private sector, and also enjoying  the quantitative side of things. So I think exposure to different areas would be good for me.

 

But your cynicism does scare me a bit. I don't want to end that way because if that's where it ends I'd just as soon get a job in some city finance department and buy a house in the next few years. Not an attack on you for being cynical. Just a concern. And I met a few planners when I was in Columbus last year and it seemed some people felt like you did and others didn't so I guess it's just a mixed bag. Accounting has its negatives but jobs practically grow on trees, so I think I'm a bit spoiled by that.

 

Hey MU! I went to Ohio State for City and Regional Planning and work as an urban planner in Cleveland. A few thoughts:

An accounting degree, as mentioned, would be tremendously helpful in Urban Planning. Because of the need to understand municipal finances, that would be a huge boost to have both an urban issues and financial issues background. You would have a leg up in certain instances.

 

Ohio State is a very good policy-based school, which sounds like what you are interested in. The tuition waiver program has its limitations and requires you have an internship--of which there are plenty. However, when I went there, most tuition waivers only covered half your time there. You can be smart about your money and only take out money for loans, not for living. All the internship pay--some better than others.

 

While I have been lucky to get into a planning position out of my Masters, my classmates have had a mixed bag. Some are in planning, some are in related fields, and a few never used their degree. I personally am extremely happy with the decision.

 

One immediate thought I had was this recent position at Detroit Shoreway in Cleveland:

http://www.detroitshoreway.org/employment.aspx

They are hiring an accountant for their office. May be a foot in the door or at least an opportunity to explore. Not sure if it fits your job-dreams, but it was a thought. Good luck! I'm happy to chat more---PM me or reply

 

Thanks a lot CbusTransit! I am going  to think hard about applying for that job. It's pretty basic accounting-wise but I would just tell the hiring manager exactly what my interests are and she can tell me if she think's there's room to grow in the way I want to or if she'd think it'd be a dead end. I'm going to PM and ask you some questions about OSU particularly the tuition waivers.

 

A couple thoughts are occurring to me based on this.  Banks have community reinvestment departments, I know they hire from urban studies or planning school because I was offered such a position before going off to grad school instead.  I would think someone with an accounting background and passion for and knowledge of urban issues could garner some interest.  Also, have you considered academia- Universities or think tanks like Urban Land Institute?  You would need more schooling for that, but it seems like you're looking to ponder the big questions of urban redevelopment more so than do specific plans and projects.

 

I'll check out some bank job websites. Are you talking about local heavyweights like Key, Huntington, Fifth Third, etc? Or smaller banks and credit unions and the like?

 

As far as the second part, yeah I'm definitely an idea guy more than anything. Are you suggesting looking at PhDs? I know there's people who work the system by applying for PhDs and then get funded and also have an option to stop at a masters.

One thing I've learned about Master's degrees as someone with two of them is that, in many fields, the public sector loves them but the private sector doesn't care.

I considered posting this in the Career Networking thread but decided to start a new one. Mods please move if you feel it fits there or in any other thread.

 

How many of you guys have careers related to urbanism, planning, etc in Ohio or elsewhere?

 

I'm a CPA, age 28. I worked for five years doing government audits for a private firm subcontracted through the Ohio Auditor of State. I've audited countless cities, townships, villages, counties, and school districts around Ohio. Then I quit and I'm currently on a "sabbatical" in Europe, fulfilling a goal of travel - I taught English in an Italian school for a while and I've been travelling for another while, but it's ending soon and as a matter of fact I'll be flying back into Hopkins a month from today.

 

I've been planning on going into urban planning for over a year, thanks to many influences including but not limited to UO. I'm actually already accepted into Cleveland State and Ohio State's masters programs and I deferred them both to Fall 2017.

 

I felt bored and uninspired in accounting and I really do care about and am interested in this stuff we talk about on UO and I'd love to contribute to redevelopment of one of our great cities. I also am generally somebody who enjoys school so I actually look forward to that aspect.

 

But I'd hate to invest all that time and money and come out in a student debt hole and have a hard time finding a job with decent pay. I don't need to be a rich man but I'd like a career where I could eventually get to high five figures or low six figures.

 

If any of you work in the field and can give your thoughts on job and financial prospects and also career satisfaction, please do.

 

Alternatively, if you think there's a way to skip grad school and get involved in urban redevelopment in Ohio with my current qualifications that would be great too. Sometimes I look at job postings in the city governments as well as with developers but I feel like it's tough to break out of an accounting role.

 

I went back and got a masters in urban planning about ten years after undergrad.  Did it for the knowledge and as a hobby as much as anything.  It's been beneficial though without a doubt.  With your background in accounting, getting a Masters Degree in Urban Planning with a focus in Real Estate Finance could be a very good combo.  I would skip the career path working for any sort of public entity - I think you'll just burn out.  Conversely, with real estate & planning courses under your belt, you could be a great asset to a large commercial developer.  Would be fun, exciting and allow you to apply your practical planning knowledge also. 

 

Finally, look into CCIM certification as a last step.  It's a great differentiator in the real estate/development industry.  PM me with any other questions

 

 

 

I'll check out some bank job websites. Are you talking about local heavyweights like Key, Huntington, Fifth Third, etc? Or smaller banks and credit unions and the like?

 

As far as the second part, yeah I'm definitely an idea guy more than anything. Are you suggesting looking at PhDs? I know there's people who work the system by applying for PhDs and then get funded and also have an option to stop at a masters.

 

To the first I don't know if small banks have whole departments for Community Reinvestment, larger banks do.

 

For the second part, PhD's would help for a lot of those sorts of positions, but I don't know that they are necessary for places like ULI or such. I had a friend from my MUDP program who got a job at ULI, but that was a while back and I don't know how it worked for him.

I have the MUPDD degree from CSU with a focus in Real Estate Finance and Development and can definitively say I wouldn't be where I am in my career without it.  That said, it is not necessarily from what I learned, but connections I made, although I really did learn a lot.  I had an amazing real estate teacher that helped me get my first internship, which led to a full time position.  That first job I had would probably have been right up your alley - it was a local real estate brokerage company that also did public sector consulting, which is something that I fit right into given my planning and real estate backgrounds.  Now I work in corporate real estate.

A friend is trying to get a planning job in the cleveland area. What sites do people like to use when trying to find an urban planning job in the region?

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.clevelandnp.org/careeropportunities/

 

Sometimes it's best to get a job, any job, in a CDC or other employer that also has planning jobs so that you hear about planning jobs coming available before there are any public announcements.

Is this still a thing? --> http://www.ohioplanning.org/aws/APAOH/pt/sp/jobs

here's one in sustainability:  https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/cleveland/jobs/2397511/sustainability-coordinator?page=4&pagetype=jobOpportunitiesJobs

 

originally linked from:  http://city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/Community/CareerCenter

On 4/1/2019 at 9:20 PM, ColDayMan said:

Is this still a thing? --> http://www.ohioplanning.org/aws/APAOH/pt/sp/jobs

Well, they're posting jobs as recently as two weeks ago.
Wonder if I would have a shot at working in DelCo's planning dept. 11 years after my grad degree & 17 after my bachelors. <sigh> ?

Edited April 7, 20196 yr by Magyar