http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2016/09/27/kroger-eyes-site-new-downtown-store/91161218/

 

Kroger is working toward opening a new Downtown grocery store near its corporate headquarters, The Enquirer has learned.

 

The store likely would be at the southeast corner of Central Parkway and Walnut Street along the streetcar line and next door to the Hamilton County Administration Building. Kroger isn't working on the project alone and has tapped a development team to potentially build a new parking garage and apartments at the site as well, multiple sources told The Enquirer.

 

 

Great news if this really happens!

From what I've heard this is going to be an iteration of the Main & Vine concept that Kroger is working out in other cities. Mostly organic and natural products, similar to whole foods.

 

Great for urban millennials, not so great for many of the low income residents that live in Cincinnati.

^ There's a Kroger 4 blocks away. I assumed they would close that one and make this store a Kroger, but if they make it a different (higher end) brand, they'd likely keep the OTR Kroger open. It has done a fine job serving mostly low income residents for decades. This store would then fill a gap that exists right now - the OTR Kroger doesn't carry as many mid range and higher priced items as other Krogers around town.

From what I've heard this is going to be an iteration of the Main & Vine concept that Kroger is working out in other cities. Mostly organic and natural products, similar to whole foods.

 

Great for urban millennials, not so great for many of the low income residents that live in Cincinnati.

 

Where did you hear that?  The Main and Vine in Seattle is 27,000 square feet.  I'm not sure how big the lot at Central Parkway and Walnut is, but that certainly seems plausible.

There is also a dollar store on Central Parkway for all the lower priced cleaning/beauty/household items. No need to duplicate that a mile away, if they want high end stuff and can pull it off more power to 'em.

 

I really hope they don't open a store called Vine & Main at the corner of Central & Walnut. It will confuse the crap out of everyone.

^Good thing Vine and Main never intersect.

I really hope they don't open a store called Vine & Main at the corner of Central & Walnut. It will confuse the crap out of everyone.

 

Maybe it can become a trend. We already have a Park and Vine on 12th and Main, why not a Vine and Main on Park and Walnut? Some of the more avant-garde boutiques could even use paper streets in their names for an added layer of obscurity. 

My blog post from July suggested a Main and Vine, but I have no actual inside knowledge of what they are thinking. https://cincinnatiideas.com/2016/07/04/a-solution-to-downtowns-game-of-groceries/

Possibly the best thing about Kroger building a new store in the CBD is that they can give their existing OTR site to 3CDC. It's a pretty big site to redevelop when you incorporate the vacant lot on Walnut that was supposed to be part of the stalled "Grammer's Place" development:

 

From what I've heard this is going to be an iteration of the Main & Vine concept that Kroger is working out in other cities. Mostly organic and natural products, similar to whole foods.

 

Great for urban millennials, not so great for many of the low income residents that live in Cincinnati.

 

Where did you hear that?  The Main and Vine in Seattle is 27,000 square feet.  I'm not sure how big the lot at Central Parkway and Walnut is, but that certainly seems plausible.

 

 

I work at Kroger Corporate so I hear alot of things that drip down to me. From what I understand this has been in the pipeline for a while but Kroger has never really felt the desperate need to pull the trigger until as of late. I don't know if it will be under the same name as Main and Vine (I sort of doubt it since of name recognition and what not), but it will most certainly be a organic/natural grocery store. Tentative target date for the opening is Fall 2018 apparently, which makes sense I guess if the project begins in the next 6-9 months.

 

Could be all bs. I'm just the messenger from what others up the chain have told me.

I really wish the local media would stop publishing articles on rumored grocery stores.  I could create quite a list of "announcements" of grocery stores to open downtown when none have ever materialized.  Kroger has been saying they're interested in a downtown grocery store for a decade with nothing to show for it.  Now we're "closer" to having one built?  Give me a break.

Possibly the best thing about Kroger building a new store in the CBD is that they can give their existing OTR site to 3CDC. It's a pretty big site to redevelop when you incorporate the vacant lot on Walnut that was supposed to be part of the stalled "Grammer's Place" development:

 

 

I was thinking the same thing about the existing site. I could see something like the Mercer on a larger scale being developed there.

I'd like to see a four story facade with a set back that goes up another 2 or even three stories. Looking at the townhomes on the north side of Mercer street, I think there was a missed opportunity to build another story or two of apartments on top of the 3 story single family homes. They could have shifted the decks to the front and added quite a bit of density on top that wouldn't really be visible from the street. Plus it would diversify the developer's revenue stream. The same thing but on a larger scale could be done on Walnut.

3CDC is involved with development of the new Kroger site.  I suspect the deal would get 3CDC the rights to the old Kroger, which would allow them to develop the entire stretch from Vine to Walnut, not to mention the Wielert's and additional building to the north, as well as the four buildings north of the Kroger lot, which they also control.  Also, I can't see the new store eliminating a lot of the "bargain" type shopping available at Kroghetto (other than, say. 40's). I would think it'd be more of a hybrid of the more organic/natural/upscale concepts while still keeping the low end.  To do otherwise would risk a huge community outrage (assuming the Vine street Kroger gets demolished, as it should).

I was talking about this project with someone who is involved, and it sounds like it's actually happening if everything works out. Apparently there are a lot of loose ends to still tie up with logistics, land, and agreements with other parties (3CDC, developer, etc), but it does sound like Kroger is pushing pretty hard right now for this to happen. The vibe I got was 3CDC would be involved with the parking garage and the OTR Kroger site. No idea of details beyond that.

 

We'll have to just wait and see.

Do we know for certain of the status of the Grammers place project? I know they own the land, but if it's not going through is their a possibility they sold the land back to 3cdc? I know the 1st phase was to rehabilitate that first block of building adjacent to grammers which did happen, but everything else has died down.

 

 

Also to be fair, it makes sense that a grocery store is coming as opposed to 5 years ago. The renaissance that is occurring is pretty evident at this point. You can slowly but surely the population of the urban core begin to repopulate in areas like Pendelton/OTR/The banks/Northside. 5 years ago the banks was still at it's infancy, and the only OTR residents in 2011 were artists/bohemians (not exactly the young professionals that live there now who work for corporations such as GE) who have mostly all packed up there bags for Northside.

 

Would an urban kroger even make sense 5 years ago? Even 3 years ago? I feel like Cincinnati even 3 years ago was a much less active, and less vibrant place than it is today. Every year this city manages to feel more alive than the year prior.

I was talking about this project with someone who is involved, and it sounds like it's actually happening if everything works out. Apparently there are a lot of loose ends to still tie up with logistics, land, and agreements with other parties (3CDC, developer, etc), but it does sound like Kroger is pushing pretty hard right now for this to happen. The vibe I got was 3CDC would be involved with the parking garage and the OTR Kroger site. No idea of details beyond that.

 

We'll have to just wait and see.

 

This was posted in the random developments thread not too long ago, which when paired with this news is a very good sign that this is more serious than other grocery store speculation we've heard. Geotechnical exploration is usually a good sign:

 

Does anyone know what is being developed at Court and Walnut? There has been discussion that G.C. has been selected for a residential new build construction. From what a source told me is that its going to be a 15 story building. I haven't found any information and I don't know of any firms in town doing the design work.

 

Seen recently in this parking lot:

 

Do we know for certain of the status of the Grammers place project? I know they own the land, but if it's not going through is their a possibility they sold the land back to 3cdc? I know the 1st phase was to rehabilitate that first block of building adjacent to grammers which did happen, but everything else has died down.

 

 

Also to be fair, it makes sense that a grocery store is coming as opposed to 5 years ago. The renaissance that is occurring is pretty evident at this point. You can slowly but surely the population of the urban core begin to repopulate in areas like Pendelton/OTR/The banks/Northside. 5 years ago the banks was still at it's infancy, and the only OTR residents in 2011 were artists/bohemians (not exactly the young professionals that live there now who work for corporations such as GE) who have mostly all packed up there bags for Northside.

 

Would an urban kroger even make sense 5 years ago? Even 3 years ago? I feel like Cincinnati even 3 years ago was a much less active, and less vibrant place than it is today. Every year this city manages to feel more alive than the year prior.

 

I am actually pretty certain I saw that 3CDC did buy back some of the buildings adjacent to the old Grammars on the east side of Walnut Street.  I don't know if they bought the land.  We would need to check the auditors site

 

In regards to the old Kroger site, let me offer my opinion and people can chime in, but let us not downsize this like 15th and Race.  They need a large parking ramp in that area behind the Kroger, to push re-development to 15th Street East, Moore Street, and Walnut Street, and New construction on the west side of Walnut Street and the south side of East 15th Street in the two gaps, along with new construction fronting Vine off the old Kroger, and the two massive buildings on the SE and NE sides of E. 15 and Vine.  This ramp will also allow development in the gaps NW of 15th and Vine and the redevelopment of those histroic buildings as well

I agree. I'd fully support a large garage on the interior of that site with 5 story buildings fronting both Vine and Walnut that would then facilitate the renovation of a dozen or more buildings in the immediate vicinity that are begging to be redeveloped.

^ My friend used to live on that block on Walnut across from the vacant lot behind Kroger, and I don't know if I could really picture a 5 story building fronting Walnut there.  I'm sure it's not any narrower than the other OTR streets, but it feels really tight back there, for lack of better terminology at the moment. Seems like maybe a 4 story building with perhaps a set back 5th floor could be a good way to squeeze a little more density in there, though.

Yeah, sorry I was being a bit vague. 5 stories on that stretch of Walnut would likely benefit from a setback so that streetwall is only 4 stories. Thankfully the narrow streets mean that if there's objection to height you don't need to set back a level much before it stops being visible to people on the street.

The obvious thing that maybe hasn't been mentioned here is the simple fact that one of the more annoying open surface lots will be filled. That is reason to rejoice alone, no?

Do we know for certain of the status of the Grammers place project? I know they own the land, but if it's not going through is their a possibility they sold the land back to 3cdc? I know the 1st phase was to rehabilitate that first block of building adjacent to grammers which did happen, but everything else has died down.

 

 

Also to be fair, it makes sense that a grocery store is coming as opposed to 5 years ago. The renaissance that is occurring is pretty evident at this point. You can slowly but surely the population of the urban core begin to repopulate in areas like Pendelton/OTR/The banks/Northside. 5 years ago the banks was still at it's infancy, and the only OTR residents in 2011 were artists/bohemians (not exactly the young professionals that live there now who work for corporations such as GE) who have mostly all packed up there bags for Northside.

 

Would an urban kroger even make sense 5 years ago? Even 3 years ago? I feel like Cincinnati even 3 years ago was a much less active, and less vibrant place than it is today. Every year this city manages to feel more alive than the year prior.

 

I am actually pretty certain I saw that 3CDC did buy back some of the buildings adjacent to the old Grammars on the east side of Walnut Street.  I don't know if they bought the land.  We would need to check the auditors site

 

In regards to the old Kroger site, let me offer my opinion and people can chime in, but let us not downsize this like 15th and Race.  They need a large parking ramp in that area behind the Kroger, to push re-development to 15th Street East, Moore Street, and Walnut Street, and New construction on the west side of Walnut Street and the south side of East 15th Street in the two gaps, along with new construction fronting Vine off the old Kroger, and the two massive buildings on the SE and NE sides of E. 15 and Vine.  This ramp will also allow development in the gaps NW of 15th and Vine and the redevelopment of those histroic buildings as well

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My plan I throwing out into the mix if Kroger ever relocates........ Sell off the front/rear parking for redevelopment, but keep the main multistory warehouse building and connect it to the Weilerts building with a new addition to make it the new Biergarten!

 

 

Any Court & Walnut/Central & Walnut discussion can go here.

If you squint, you can see the Kroger signs at the bottom.  Two story Kroger, current layout reminds me of the Mariano's in Lakeshore East (Chicago).

At this point they should just go for it and make the parking garage taller than the County Building.

Where did you get that rendering from?  This really needs to happen but until they officially announce it, and then until they actually break ground, I'll believe it when I see it. 

I'm curious where that came from. Sort of looks like Senhauser's sketchup style of conceptualizing a site. Wouldn't surprise me if they're onboard (assuming this is actually real).

It may just be preliminary, but i like the small detail of stepping the garage facade back so that the wrapped brick corner of the County building is more visible. Gives the area where the two buildings meet at the alley more interest.

 

IDK about anyone else but I really like it and I am guessing this is for real.  Maybe 3CDC is waiting to finish up Music Hall first before announcing this, not sure, but it looks like it is imminent.

 

I don't really mind the parking garage as they have it here, would be nice if they added some sort of screening but it isn't really going to be visible except for office users across the street possibly, which isn't a big deal.  It should add a ton of life to the barren landscape that is the current surface lot and a lot more viability to OTR on Walnut and hopefully Court Street as well which really needs a lot more life. 

I would much rather have apartments there. Court Street needs some life after 5pm.

I would much rather have apartments there. Court Street needs some life after 5pm.

 

I looked at the first post and they had apartments, so I am guessing something similar in multi-use as the 7 and Broadway building

Sexy.

 

We know that Kroger is wanting to test out their new urban concept - could this be it?

One thing I noticed is that the rendering has the updated streetcar colors.  So while we don't know where it came from at the least it's something that was designed recently.  So we've got that going for us. 

Ugh, I know I'm becoming the UrbanOhio curmudgeon, but there is no indication Kroger has any interest in a downtown store much less at this location.  If anything we've seen over the last few DECADES that Kroger has absolutely no interest in a downtown store.  This random speculation is purely wishful thinking with no basis in fact.  The city should be trying to court a more progressive grocer to open a downtown store and stop trying to encourage Kroger to invest in a project against their will.

It appears the building is L shaped with the side fronting Central being fully apartments to the ground floor retail (Kroger). The garage is then behind this/above the Kroger and appears to puncture through the Walnut Street side of the building. There then appears to be some sort of planted terrace on a setback to separate the Court Street side from the garage behind. I'd much rather have "townhomes" fronting Court or something similar to liven it up a bit, but overall it seems like it's doing a decent job of shielding the garage without putting it underground which might be what makes this financially viable.

Ugh, I know I'm becoming the UrbanOhio curmudgeon, but there is no indication Kroger has any interest in a downtown store much less at this location.  If anything we've seen over the last few DECADES that Kroger has absolutely no interest in a downtown store.  This random speculation is purely wishful thinking with no basis in fact.  The city should be trying to court a more progressive grocer to open a downtown store and stop trying to encourage Kroger to invest in a project against their will.

 

They have drawings with a store layout, so this is far beyond speculation. 

 

Also, I'd say the only changes that will be made at this point are color selections.

One thing I noticed is that the rendering has the updated streetcar colors.  So while we don't know where it came from at the least it's something that was designed recently.  So we've got that going for us. 

 

Last I checked though, the world doesn't drop off a cliff at 12th street. 

Ugh, I know I'm becoming the UrbanOhio curmudgeon, but there is no indication Kroger has any interest in a downtown store much less at this location.  If anything we've seen over the last few DECADES that Kroger has absolutely no interest in a downtown store.  This random speculation is purely wishful thinking with no basis in fact.  The city should be trying to court a more progressive grocer to open a downtown store and stop trying to encourage Kroger to invest in a project against their will.

 

They have drawings with a store layout, so this is far beyond speculation. 

 

Also, I'd say the only changes that will be made at this point are color selections.

 

Do you mind sharing where you got the image you shared? It appears legit (albeit preliminary to me) but I'd be curious who it's coming from.

On the south side of the building, instead of leaving the entire parking garage exposed and having a few trees to disguise it from the street, they should put up lattice and grow hop vines on it!

Possibly the best thing about Kroger building a new store in the CBD is that they can give their existing OTR site to 3CDC. It's a pretty big site to redevelop when you incorporate the vacant lot on Walnut that was supposed to be part of the stalled "Grammer's Place" development:

 

Even if they don't get the Grammers land, there is room to sell off part and keep part to bring back Weilerts as grand as it used to be. It is located in a good spot to be used as a large neighborhood gathering spot like it and the former Cosmopolitan Hall down the street used to be. Could also be run like the Turners society of old with a gym on one of the floors of the Kroger warehouse.

Out of the buildings you have outlined, I would guess that only Weilert's will survuve. The other buildings you have outlined and the vacant lot facing Walnut will probably all get subsumed into a large, Mercer Commons style development with a big parking garage in the middle and apartments/condos facing Vine and Walnut.

Out of the buildings you have outlined, I would guess that only Weilert's will survuve. The other buildings you have outlined and the vacant lot facing Walnut will probably all get subsumed into a large, Mercer Commons style development with a big parking garage in the middle and apartments/condos facing Vine and Walnut.

By the way, 3CDC is taking steps to demolish those old tow truck garages behind Wielert's/Kaze patio. That should happen fairly soon.

Out of the buildings you have outlined, I would guess that only Weilert's will survuve. The other buildings you have outlined and the vacant lot facing Walnut will probably all get subsumed into a large, Mercer Commons style development with a big parking garage in the middle and apartments/condos facing Vine and Walnut.

 

True, but it would be nice to keep the old factory/warehouse or incorporate into things just to keep any development there from feeling too new and sterile. I realize the garage over housing/behind housing is a selling point/demanded requirement but it would be nice to see some private courtyards vs parking in all the inbetween building spaces.

Do you mind sharing where you got the image you shared? It appears legit (albeit preliminary to me) but I'd be curious who it's coming from.

 

According to previous rumors that I heard, Kroger and 3CDC wanted to keep this project hush-hush until they were ready to make a big announcement & submit the project for the needed approvals. Someone on Twitter tells me that "more information will be unveiled later this week". Therefore, it seems likely that these renderings were created to submit to the city and will come out in the next round of packets.

 

Another note on Kroger's existing OTR store on Vine Street. My girlfriend attempted to go shopping there on Sunday but they were closed because the power was out, and several Duke Energy trucks were in their parking lot trying to get them up and running again. She went again on Monday and said that their produce section was almost totally empty; they had no lettuce or salad mix of any kind. I'm not sure if that was a result of produce going bad during the outage, but they always have these types of issues at that store. This neighborhood deserves better, and I guarantee that Kroger would never let that type of neglect happen at a downtown store that was located right next to their corporate headquarters.

^ think they were struck by lightning Sunday

It's official.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/06/06/kroger-will-build-downtown-grocery-store-as-a-part.html

40 years.

 

Finally.

 

It looks like the twin to the Ascent is finally happening :)

Honestly, I'm still putting the odds of this development at 50/50.  Just because they've announced the development does not mean that it's for certain going to be built.

 

If this were SkyHouse or some random developer, I'd be with you. But I can't see Kroger announcing a project a block away from their corporate HQ tower and then changing their mind and pulling out of it. Also, as I've speculated in this thread, I think 3CDC is incentivized to push this development forward so they can take over the land currently occupied by the Kroger on Vine Street and incorporate that into their next phase of development.

 

Also, as a more cynical take, I think Cranley wanted to time this project to make himself more appealing to the downtown/urbanite crowd. I would not be surprised if construction starts before Election Day for that reason.