"Big Boy" city? Hmmm in a checkered pair of overalls that could be said for our mayor as well i would think. Quite a remarkable resemblance, especially in this pic.

I'd think that this will be even more influenced by the layouts of Chicago's Marianos stores, which Kroger now owns. The layout of Corryville was determined when they put the plans together like 2-3 years ago, so Kroger hadn't yet absorbed lessons from Marianos.  This is being designed in a post-Marianos ownership landscape.

Wishful thinking IMO

 

As for why they don't get that building at Main and Central, that building is historic and charming and lots of people (including me) would raise a hue and cry if it were demolished.

A 1,500 SF one-story corner building, built in 1941?  It was a mistake when it was built and is not worth saving IMO.

 

I work for Kroger, so I'm willing to bet I know more about our store planning process than you. *shrug* We are both hoping for the same thing.

Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

 

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

Article about architecture of Court and Walnut, before the HCB on July 24th:

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/downtown-cincinnati-kroger-project-makes-good-first-impression-with-interesting-and-subtle-design

 

The GBBN model shows a taller building at Central Parkway and Main. So maybe they're planning for that possibility? Tough to tell with the angle of the photo.

 

Bill, that looks to me like part of the Alms-Doepke building.

^yeah... if you look at that model from the other side, you can see that there isn't a tall building at that corner: https://spark.adobe.com/page/xBK0BLCy3A8TI/

 

I hope that if a development is ever slated for that corner that the small building can be moved to a vacant lot. 

I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

 

I wish there could be push to make that able to hold a future building but get that spanning over angled semi parking bays isn't exactly cheap for a theoretical future building. But still, it's bad.

Someone could design a really interesting building for that small lot facing Main with cantilevers over the small building at Central Parkway & Main and the Kroger loading docks. Of course that type of development isn't going to happen until property values get sky high in Cincinnati.

I generally really like this building...but that Central Parkway loading bay...is really terrible. They did an awful job of making it at least feel integrated. That's a permanent hole in the urban fabric of Central Parkway.

 

Agreed. The site has access on 3 sides (Court, Walnut, and Central Parkway) and an existing alleyway which sadly will be lost in this design, so I wish they would figure out a loading dock solution that is less disruptive to the street.

What is more likely to happen there (if anything) is what we are seeing all over in Portland and especially Seattle.

 

See linked image: https://goo.gl/maps/m2nh3gfPofR2

 

Actually... it'd probably be something shittier, like this (still in Seattle): https://goo.gl/maps/HyxsQGTmbmS2

Also, keep in mind that the city is not allowing new curb cuts on the streetcar tracks for safety reasons, so the loading docks either had to go on Central Parkway or Court Street.

So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

 

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

So...the latest HCB packet is out and there's something very concerning. This building will fully encompass that small building at the corner of Central and Main and will have a garage entry off Main Street as well. Meaning they have 4 curb cuts for this one building and have removed an important corner fully from being built at Main and Central.

 

I hate to be dramatic but I really hope they deny this building and force them to revise how they're dealing with the eastern half of the property. Because that's trash. It's bad design and bad urbanism and is bad for the future of Downtown.

 

What did you mean by 'fully encompass'? Is it now being demolished and replaced or do you mean surrounded? It has had that Main Street entrance for small deliveries since the beginning with that gap between the Hamilton County Building and the little corner bank filled with a low rise facilities type building. Hopefilly it is dresed up/detailed  and isnt just a roll up door with cinderblock facade but i don't necessarily see this vehicle entrance as a project killer. With all the multiple uses happening in one project the vehicles entrances need to happen somewhere and the semis need to have their separate docks somewhere. Depending on how it is detailed vehicle entrances can contribute to the overall look of a building and don't have to be bad by default. Look at Union Terminal, back in the day the front lower wings were just REALLY dramatic vehicle entrances. Cars and cities can work together and we should not see the ways they interact with architecture as simple a service entrance to be hidden. It is all in how you look at it i guess.

 

Encompassed meaning surrounded. From the renderings before it only looked the the gap between the small building and this new tower on Central Parkway would be filled in with a one story portion. Maybe I missed something where it was visible that there'd be a garage entry off of Main Street between the small corner building and county administration building, but it's shown here. And looks terrible. It's severely disappointing. Honestly to the point where I don't know how much I can get behind this project. Taking an entire corner off the market for curb cuts and one story garage/service entries is a terrible idea.

 

Edit: Looking just above that portion isn't even shown in their model. I'm not sure I agree that there isn't a better way to handle getting people into the garage that doesn't require a random ramped offshoot all the way to Main Street. That's sloppy planning. It's already bad enough that there will be semis backing in off of Central Parkway.

 

How is it that this Kroger requires all this service area but I've been to plenty other markets in less urban locations that are the same size and don't require this? Is Kroger just unwilling to change its supplying model?

Completely surrounds the 1-story building. The parking lot on Main becomes a parking garage entrance for the public as well as a delivery truck entrance for Kroger. I think it is a mistake to have any kind of vehicle entrance located right there, as it will interfere with the streetcar stop.

Here is the image in the packet

If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

Here's the street level view of that corner:

 

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

 

It's kind of amazing that this small building will be preserved. 

If the ramp is for resident parking it's not such a problem because residents will know the streetcar is there.  Visitors to the grocery store are more likely to hit it. 

 

That's true, but from the renderings, it looks like it's public parking, not just for residents.

 

I can see it now: a streetcar is stopped at that station. Just as it begins to accelerate, an idiot driver makes a left turn from the right lane of Main into that parking garage entrance, in front of the streetcar. The streetcar hits the car. This will happen all the time.

 

I can see why they want to add a second parking garage entrance. Having a single entrance only accessible from eastbound Central Parkway is not ideal. I'm not sure what a better location would be for a second entrance. Court Street isn't ideal, either.

I'm all for historic preservation but I wonder if it could be better if the little building at Main and Central Pkwy. came down?  It appears to be a nice building (at least the exterior does) but IMO it's way too small and out of scale for such a wide street like Central Pkwy.  On the other hand, I don't know if that location, right on the Main Street streetcar tracks, would be better or not if higher rise development occurred there.  I suspect it would though.  And I'm not bothered by garage and dock access on Central Pkwy. -- it seems to me, considering the streetcar tracks on Main Street -- that garage and dock access would be safer on the pkwy. anyway.  Surely some kind of attractive streetscaping could be implemented to help offset the appearance of vehicle access.  Besides, the pkwy. doesn't exactly lend itself to small storefront-like development...

I wonder if this ramp could be designed in such a way that a building could be build over top of it later. Similar to this ramp leading to the residential parking garage at The Banks, where the 180 Walnut office building will eventually be built:

 

Here's the street level view of that corner:

 

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

 

Oh, so it is just a roll up door & Cinder block. Doh. I fully agree that is kinds sucks now. It could have a cool rooftop deck on top of that low part at least i would think or SOMETHING. At least it makes for a good long term artworks spot on that slim building.

 

I've heard the parking ramp on Main was eliminated. They are only going to use that curb cut for truck deliveries.

 

Also, 2 of the parking garage floors above Kroger will be level opening up the possibility of conversion to something else in the future.

Downtown Kroger's design gets city approval

 

The design for a mixed-use project that includes a downtown Kroger, plus two needed zoning variances, was unanimously approved by Cincinnati’s Historic Conservation Board on Monday, whose staff emphatically praised the project.

 

The mixed-use projects, which includes eight stories of 139 apartments and a 550-space parking garage in addition to a two-level, 45,000-square-foot Kroger, needed zoning variances because it will be three feet higher than allowed under the zoning code and its front façade lacked complete commercial continuity. It also needed a certificate of appropriateness for its design because part of the project is in the Court Street Historic District. It will be located at Central Parkway and Walnut Street.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/07/24/downtown-krogers-design-gets-city-approval.html

Here's the street level view of that corner:

 

Here's a link to the July 24 packet (125 mb): https://www.dropbox.com/s/neqeba63vo7q9gv/2017.07.24.pdf?dl=0

 

Really hope that corner gets a taller add-on some day. That is not a flattering side of the County Admin. Building to leave exposed for all time.

It would be a great place for an ArtWorks mural in the mean time...

I noticed today that the parking lot is now closed and they have removed at least one billboard with a crane and another they're working on. No is currently parking on the last as of Monday of this week (less a few rebels). It looks like it could move quickly! 

Aerials from July 2:

 

 

I would just LOVE if this development ushered a redesign of Court Street that gave it the public space and the canopy that 8th has between Elm and Vine. And before you holler... there would still be parking.

If you kept just the parallel parking on the north and south edges, minimized the width of the driving lane, and then used everything else as a public space you could create a really great street out of Court. I really hope/believe 3CDC will push for something to happen here to make it more hospitable.

Or make the south side of it 2-way and close down the north side to make a widened linear plaza for pedestrians. Get tons of green in there to take advantage of the solar amenity on that side of the street and to really give it good vibes.

Hey, that's not a bad idea. I hope 3CDC takes the time to truly re-envision the street and not just rebuild the streets and sidewalks in the existing configuration. And just ignore Dusty when he complains about losing a few metered parking spaces.

And I'll repeat -- move the streetcar transformer into the new parking garage. 

And while we're throwing out ideas based off of taestell[/member]'s photo: How about another 4 or 5 stories on top of the southern half of the Gateway Garage a la the Senhauser/7 at Broadway project to contribute to the midrise canyon of Central Parkway. 

Can we also do something about Central Parkway between Main and Walnut? The two turn lanes from WB Central to SB Walnut have whittled down the median to the point where it basically doesn't exist. There is no reason why Central should be 10 lanes wide. DOTE needs to rethink this block and optimize it to be pedestrian friendly, especially since OTR residents are going to be walking across Central here with their groceries.

^ And the barely 4 feet of sidewalk in front of Salvation Army.

I kind of doubt the developers would want Central Pkwy. between Main and Walnut Streets narrowed.  There'll be much more traffic in the area once the development's completed, with more shoppers, residents and office workers in the immediate vicinity.  Now that I'm thinking about it, Walnut can already be a nightmare during evening rush hours (somebody ban the pedal wagons then, please!) and it'll only get worse.

It could be narrowed a decent bit just by reducing lane widths.  Especially on the north side of the parkway there's some weird extra unused space (again in front of Salvation Army), like what appears to be a 12' to 14' parking lane.  https://goo.gl/maps/nL7noSQiaKN2

Central Parkway is narrower east of Main, but instead of expanding the sidewalks and "funneling" the traffic down, the two outermost parking lanes just get strangely wider, both on the north side where jjakucyk[/member] mentioned but also on the south side in front of the 1-story building. They're like double-width parking lanes. Expanding the sidewalks would be an easy way to improve pedestrian friendliness. But ideally I would prefer that the city rethinks the need so so many center turn lanes on that block. Bring back the median!

From memory I believe that the parkway is 15 feet narrower between property lines in the block between Main and Sycamore.  That dates back to the fact that the block for the county courthouse was designated and platted before the canal itself.  That location was chosen because it was at the convergence of Reading Road and McMicken, which were the two original main roads out of the basin. 

 

The state designated the wider (155 feet?) section of Central Parkway from Main, around the bend, and up to Liberty in order to create an extensive public warf area that ensured that no one party could control the terminus of the canal.  That's what happened on the Thames in London and in many examples around the United States a public warf was dedicated in charters.  That's why Cincinnati had and still has a public landing at the central spot on the river.  They viewed the state-owned canal in the same way.  The various public markets in DT Cincinnati were also part of the same concept -- public land for commerce that could not be controlled by an aristocratic family for hundreds of years as was the issue all over Europe. 

In any case this development will truly transform the area.  The City's investment (new sidewalks and medians with pavers, uniform signage and metal supports for produce stand awnings, etc.) in Court Street 30 years ago was ill-timed, and occurred just as market-day vendors that used to line the street were dwindling in numbers.  Of course the rest of the CBD was in decline then too for several reasons, as Baby Boomers began moving to suburbia and exurbia in search of better schools when their children got older.  Now they're empty nesters and coming back in droves.

 

When I used to grocery shop regularly on Court Street years ago, it became a bleaker and bleaker experience as time went by.  I'm so glad 3CDC has taken an interest in the area and I hope it won't be too long before the surface parking lot south of the new Kroger's is developed.  Those lots have been eyesores for too long, considering Walnut Street's such a major artery into the CBD.

And we have ground breaking....

It wasn't even fenced off this past weekend, I don't think. 

Only taped off, but I'm still surprised it is not fenced off.

they are just removing some old underground gas tanks today

^ Beat me to it.

Interesting. Looks like an old basement. You can still see the walls. Too cool.

I tried to find a picture yesterday and didn't have any luck, but I believe where they are digging used to be the site of the Hamilton County Records building that burned in a rather spectacular 5+ alarm fire back in the 1970's(?) or so.  That may be an oil tank for the old heating system.

 

Sidewalk and street closures go into place tomorrow. Construction is starting!