We're down to less than a week away from the election and there is surprisingly so little discussion on this board on the election. Do you think will win? Who do you want to win? 

 

I think Jackson is far from visionary, but he's a better bet than Zack Reed. Will he win?  At the primary, he got 39%, Zack Reed got 22%. That means 39% voted for someone else, hardly an endorsement of Jackson. And if the bulk of that 39% goes to Zack, he'd win. Then again, if they support him, maybe they would have at the primary also, but they didn't.  Thoughts?  I haven't seen any recent polling done either.

We're down to less than a week away from the election and there is surprisingly so little discussion on this board on the election. Do you think will win? Who do you want to win? 

 

I think Jackson is far from visionary, but he's a better bet than Zack Reed. Will he win?  At the primary, he got 39%, Zack Reed got 22%. That means 39% voted for someone else, hardly an endorsement of Jackson. And if the bulk of that 39% goes to Zack, he'd win. Then again, if they support him, maybe they would have at the primary also, but they didn't.  Thoughts?  I haven't seen any recent polling done either.

 

Jeff came in third, and as expected he immediately endorsed Zack.  I'm not sure what the others did, or how much it matters.

I'm actually watching the debate on YouTube right now. I know a lot of people are  tired of him but I think Jackson is the better choice. I like his quiet dedication to the job. I believe he truly cares about the city and tries to find a good balance between new development and not forgetting about Cleveland's longtime residents. Reed is a smoother talker, a younger face, but I think he's kind of Donald Trumpy in the way he tries to oversimplify everything, run with empty catchphrases (SAFETY FIRST!), and blame the incumbent for factors far beyond their control. Is "400 new cops" Cleveland's version of the big, beautiful wall?

I'm actually watching the debate on YouTube right now. I know a lot of people are  tired of him but I think Jackson is the better choice. I like his quiet dedication to the job. I believe he truly cares about the city and tries to find a good balance between new development and not forgetting about Cleveland's longtime residents. Reed is a smoother talker, a younger face, but I think he's kind of Donald Trumpy in the way he tries to oversimplify everything, run with empty catchphrases (SAFETY FIRST!), and blame the incumbent for factors far beyond their control. Is "400 new cops" Cleveland's version of the big, beautiful wall?

 

Jackson's out of touch in a big way.  The restrictions on the police show that.  And he was really going to push through that damned track, which would have not only been a waste of a lot of money but counterproductive to the area he was going to put it. 

The dirt bike thing was mishandled in some ways, and now he's trying to sheepishly walk the whole thing back, but I understand what he was going for. Co-opting your enemies as opposed to fighting them head-on is a well-worn strategy. (Using the term "enemy" loosely here, maybe we should say, co-opting your antagonists.) Urban dirt biking has the potential to be a problem for Cleveland and he was trying to twist it around and turn it into a positive. He was even getting ambitious with it by dreaming that we could be the national capital. When Zack Reed says it's a WASTE OF MONEY! he isn't being honest because the cost of the track shouldn't be compared with zero, it should be compared with however many police wage-hours are spent chasing riders and how many more serious crimes are missed because cops were chasing people for popping wheelies.

 

There were some problems, like, would people drive all the way across town to get there, maybe not. Also noise issues where they wanted to put it. But the idea wasn't as horrible as it's now made out to be. But maybe reaching out to these guys and building a track somewhere else, even if it would be tougher for people to get to, could still get riders to behave less rebelliously because they'd appreciate the city reaching out to them and not solely viewing them as a problem to be dealt with.

 

Anyways, in the grand scheme of everything he's done as mayor I don't think he deserves to be solely judged for a dirt bike blunder.

There's only one libertarian conservative that could make it a contest in Cleveland and he lives in LA.

 

Who are you referring to?

There's only one libertarian conservative that could make it a contest in Cleveland and he lives in LA.

 

Who are you referring to?

 

My guess is......Drew Carey.

 

I ended up talking to an LA film producer the other night during WS game 7. He said that in all of Hollywood Drew is the nicest, most genuine person and a great ambassador for the city. Thought that was cool.

I love Cleveland Scene running a front page "ad" this week saying "We Back Zach", and then refusing to acknowledge that this would be taken as Scene endorsing the candidate.

^That's in very poor taste by Scene.  Here's what they said about it:

 

"This week’s cover wrap featuring Zack Reed was accepted and printed in the face of vocal opposition from the editorial staff. Management listened to our concerns and, as they’re entitled to do, opted to run it anyway." 

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/11/01/a-quick-note-about-the-cover-wrap-on-this-weeks-issue-of-scene

 

They should not be selling ad space of a political nature that covers their front page.

 

^ #integrity

There's only one libertarian conservative that could make it a contest in Cleveland and he lives in LA.

 

Who are you referring to?

 

My guess is......Drew Carey.

 

I ended up talking to an LA film producer the other night during WS game 7. He said that in all of Hollywood Drew is the nicest, most genuine person and a great ambassador for the city. Thought that was cool.

 

Bingeaux.

 

He's already addressed City Council on ways he thinks the city could help itself (selling off the West Side Market got the most attention).

 

He's not the type to attack (sarcastic, maybe) and he's basically attack proof in this town.  That actually might be a good idea.  Sort of the same principle as Trump, except in a much more positive way.

So, does anyone have a feel for whether Jackson or Reed will be better for putting more construction cranes in Cleveland's skyline?

^Jackson, for sure. Under Zach, people will be very skiddish about pouring money into CLE; they'd invest elsewhere.

Reed's resume is pathetically ''thin'' for being in office since 2001. 

^Jackson, for sure. Under Zach, people will be very skiddish about pouring money into CLE; they'd invest elsewhere.

 

Yeah, big business is going all in for Jackson this time around. Reed is viewed, fairly or not, as too volatile and unpredictable.

The dirt bike thing was mishandled in some ways, and now he's trying to sheepishly walk the whole thing back, but I understand what he was going for. Co-opting your enemies as opposed to fighting them head-on is a well-worn strategy. (Using the term "enemy" loosely here, maybe we should say, co-opting your antagonists.) Urban dirt biking has the potential to be a problem for Cleveland and he was trying to twist it around and turn it into a positive. He was even getting ambitious with it by dreaming that we could be the national capital. When Zack Reed says it's a WASTE OF MONEY! he isn't being honest because the cost of the track shouldn't be compared with zero, it should be compared with however many police wage-hours are spent chasing riders and how many more serious crimes are missed because cops were chasing people for popping wheelies.

 

There were some problems, like, would people drive all the way across town to get there, maybe not. Also noise issues where they wanted to put it. But the idea wasn't as horrible as it's now made out to be. But maybe reaching out to these guys and building a track somewhere else, even if it would be tougher for people to get to, could still get riders to behave less rebelliously because they'd appreciate the city reaching out to them and not solely viewing them as a problem to be dealt with.

 

Anyways, in the grand scheme of everything he's done as mayor I don't think he deserves to be solely judged for a dirt bike blunder.

 

It was a big blunder and Zack's right about it perhaps being the dumbest idea ever.  It also demonstrated how out of touch he's become.  He hamstrung the police to a large degree and left them understaffed, until it was election season. 

 

Urban dirt biking doesn't have the "potential" to be a problem it is already a big problem.  Unlicensed motor vehicles and urban neighborhoods simply don't mix.  Then there's the often ignored fact that it started as a way to move drugs around and still has strong roots in the drug trade.  Which means a lot of the riders have gang ties.  Building a big complex where they can all come together is the opposite of a solution, and that ignores how they are going to get there and whether or not they want to bother.  Jackson sees this all through rose colored glasses because of his grandson, which does not speak well of his judgement.

You're right; the dirt bike saga is a blunder, a way of compromising with drug dealers and gang bangers - but with the opposite of emboldening them. As if they would use the track anyway...

 

But the worst thing Frank has done is to hire Lance Mason. First, that animal got only 9 months for trying to kill his wife - boy, that's some judicial system we have here. And second, okay, the scumbag is out of prison. In what universe does it make sense to hire him for any public position, and one that works directly with female small business owners. Boy I wonder how they will feel about interacting with this animal. Is he going to be monitored by a third party at all times for when he snaps again? What kind of insurer would even cover this lunatic? Is the city currently developing a future settlement fund for his inevitable victim(s)? This is the WORST and DUMBEST thing Frank has done, and Zack should skip a few happy hours and jump all over it if he wants some political gain.

You're right; the dirt bike saga is a blunder, a way of compromising with drug dealers and gang bangers - but with the opposite of emboldening them. As if they would use the track anyway...

 

They may or may not use it, but they would definitely fight over whose turf it is.

Zach Reed uses a different form of populism - but it's equally turd-filled as the brand used by Trump and Sanders.

 

It is such a shame that he's the only option to replace Jackson.

Is it fair to say that "urban dirt biking" = "drugs and gangs and crime?" Look, I don't know any urban dirt bikers, but it seems to me there is a legitimate hobby that's burgeoning here. Maybe some crossover with that other stuff but that's inevitable in these neighborhoods. But it reminds me of the way skateboarding was treated 15 years ago. Some places built skate parks and others sent their cops to chase punk teenagers because they were skating on ADA ramps and railings.

According to this article in Scene, turnout was cut in half between 2001 and 2013 (and I don't see any signs it'll be up much from 2013 this year): https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2017/11/07/in-frank-jackson-era-voter-turnout-for-mayoral-elections-has-plummeted

 

 

Really highlights the bad options Cleveland voters have available.  I think Jackson has been OK, and I'll vote for him over a candidate like Reed, but it's sad how no legitimate challengers have risen.  I'm wondering if some of the people who stayed on the sideline (Ronayne, Zone, etc.) are wishing they'd taken a chance now that Jackson looks somewhat vulnerable. Hopefully someone can arrive on the scene by 2021 who has substance, and actually energizes people to vote at better than 20% turnout.

Is it fair to say that "urban dirt biking" = "drugs and gangs and crime?" Look, I don't know any urban dirt bikers, but it seems to me there is a legitimate hobby that's burgeoning here. Maybe some crossover with that other stuff but that's inevitable in these neighborhoods. But it reminds me of the way skateboarding was treated 15 years ago. Some places built skate parks and others sent their cops to chase punk teenagers because they were skating on ADA ramps and railings.

 

Did skateboarders ever block traffic on an interstate while performing dangerous maneuvers around other motorists?  My problem with this whole thing is if one of these kids rams into me and kills himself, the parents are going to sue me....

^Substitute "street" for "interstate," and yeah I think you would have found very similar concerns back then.

Cuyahoga County has a live voter turnout page here. Currently Cleveland has 16% turnout overall. Pretty neat to analyze, they have lists by city/ward and an interactive map.

Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson wins unprecedented fourth 4-year term

Updated 11:07 PM; Posted 11:01 PM

By Robert Higgs, cleveland.com

 

bhiggsCleveland[/member].com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Mayor Frank Jackson won a unprecedented fourth, four-year term as Cleveland mayor Tuesday, handily defeating City Councilman Zack Reed.

 

Reed conceded just before 11 p.m., and Jackson then appeared before his supporters to announce the victory.

 

Unofficial returns from the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections showed Jackson had captured 61 percent of the vote. Reed had 39 percent.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/11/cleveland_mayor_frank_jackson_52.html#incart_maj-story-1

Is it fair to say that "urban dirt biking" = "drugs and gangs and crime?"

 

Most Cleveland police officers will say exactly that.  The dirt bikes and ATVs started out in urban areas as a way to move drugs around.  They can evade the police better, and if necessary can be ditched with no traceability to the rider.

NASCAR got it start with moonshiners hotrodding their cars to evade the police.  Now it's one of the biggest sports in America.

It is sad to hear that only 23 percent of registered voters participated in this election.

NASCAR got it start with moonshiners hotrodding their cars to evade the police.  Now it's one of the biggest sports in America.

 

Perhaps, but when it's practiced in high density areas there tend to be problems.

Is it fair to say that "urban dirt biking" = "drugs and gangs and crime?"

 

Most Cleveland police officers will say exactly that.  The dirt bikes and ATVs started out in urban areas as a way to move drugs around.  They can evade the police better, and if necessary can be ditched with no traceability to the rider.

 

Just like the origins of NASCAR! which a lot of those cops may be watching every week.

 

 

[edit thanks to X for stealing my (days of) thunder]

Motocross started as "scrambles" in the '50s with little apparent drug use. I know I wouldn't want to be on drugs while being thrown around those old heaps with barely any suspension.

Unofficial turnout for city of Cleveland was 59,622 (23%).

 

Of those, 8,593 didn't bother even voting in the mayor's race.

Excellent data for us. thanks for sharing

A coalition of economic development and technology organizations need to host a mayoral Town Hall/forum/debate....   I believe Cleveland is being outpaced by Columbus when it comes to these areas...  Being in Ohio doesn't help but it does not seem to stop Columbus....  our next mayor needs to be someone who embraces a new Cleveland...  

Edited July 23, 20204 yr by lockdog

On 7/23/2020 at 8:51 AM, lockdog said:

 our next mayor needs to be someone who embraces a new Cleveland...  

 I wish Fitzgerald hadn't blotted his copybook, to use a naval expression.