The concept of the Americana could absolutely work here. Yes- its WAY too fancy for Cincinnati- but it's garages instead of surface lots, all buildings face inward to a large public pedestrian plaza. Rather than the silly sprawling development that Oakley station is, take those same buildings... The same apartments, same buildings and bring them together-  creating a small public area instead of these small islands surrounded by surface lots. The original Millworks design was closer to the concept of the Americana. Cars on the outside- public pedestrian centered design in the center.

 

This design will have people driving from one store to another. I really hope John wasn't one of the votes for this project.

 

I guess I am not making myself clear. The concepts you are talking about are fine, but they are only relevant when they aren't in a vacuum. You can create a public space inside of an isolated development, but without access to the rest of the community, how "public" is it really? Not very. The true value of good urban design is that public spaces are truly public, that connections are real and not "gestural." And again, you only have to look at the context of Americana on a map to see how infinitely better positioned it is for impactful urban design than the Oakley location.

 

Horrible design, but I'm not convinced this project will even happen. I believe either Rookwood Exchange, or this will become reality. Not both. Rookwood Exchange is further along than this, so I think we might all be lucky enough to have this project die an economic death as Rookwood Exchange snatches up the office and retail tenants, and movie theater chain before this project.

 

First thing I thought. Couldn't be coincidental that they both had news stories on the same day.

I guess I am not making myself clear. The concepts you are talking about are fine, but they are only relevant when they aren't in a vacuum. You can create a public space inside of an isolated development, but without access to the rest of the community, how "public" is it really? Not very. The true value of good urban design is that public spaces are truly public, that connections are real and not "gestural." And again, you only have to look at the context of Americana on a map to see how infinitely better positioned it is for impactful urban design than the Oakley location.

 

It may not be a GREAT location but you're acting like it's unreachable.  It's no less reachable than the Target that it is right next to.  The city is about to start on the Kennedy connector making it easier to get to-

 

Metro busses drive along the development-- (Marburg).  It has easy access from the North (Via Ridge or soon via Kennedy) East (via madison to the road connecting madison to Marburg) and the south via Ridge or Madison again...  It does not have access via the west or northwest.  It's also easily accessible from 562 and 71.  It's not hard to get to.

I'm also in the camp that thinks this project will remain on indefinite hold. How is this guy funded? I just don't picture a lot of outside capital being available at this time for this type of project, regardless of how well Oakley is attracting YPs at this time or because of road projects in the area.

Demolition of those buildings is commencing, for what it's worth. They are preparing to scrap the interior in the coming weeks, with demolition set for summer. It's not on hold - it's progressing quite fast now, actually.

Demolition of those buildings is commencing, for what it's worth. They are preparing to scrap the interior in the coming weeks, with demolition set for summer. It's not on hold - it's progressing quite fast now, actually.

 

I don't think the project will happen in this form. I think the developers have put forth a generic plan, and are clearing the site, in order to make it an attractive purchase for an outside buyer. Rookwood Exchange is getting all of the tenants before this development is able. The only thing that could make this work is if there is somehow demand for two movie theaters, multiple hotels, new office and retail tenants within this close proximity. I just don't see that being the case.

I agree Rockwood seems to have a much smoother path to success and I don't see the likelihood of duplicating developments in the current economic environment. However, they are going to have to get those factories down to really get a sense of where this is going next, especially w/ the environmental issues that are going to have to be dealt with. If I had to guess, this will be the big project for 2015-2020.

Demolition of those buildings is commencing, for what it's worth. They are preparing to scrap the interior in the coming weeks, with demolition set for summer. It's not on hold - it's progressing quite fast now, actually.

 

I don't think the project will happen in this form. I think the developers have put forth a generic plan, and are clearing the site, in order to make it an attractive purchase for an outside buyer. Rookwood Exchange is getting all of the tenants before this development is able. The only thing that could make this work is if there is somehow demand for two movie theaters, multiple hotels, new office and retail tenants within this close proximity. I just don't see that being the case.

 

Didn't say that, but that the project is not on hold - it's progressing. Just did a tour of the site and spoke with the developer (think: abandonment). And most likely, you'll see more surface lots than parking garages - at least that is what is being applied for, unfortunately.

You'd have to think a large scale apartment complex would fill quickly in this spot

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2011/06/23/theatre-coming-to-oakley/

 

A movie theatre tenant has now been named.  Could this project be happening?

It upsets me that this project is happening.  The design is horrendous- It promotes cars entirely- people will drive from one end to the other.  Very disappointing. 

This is a POS, but from Vandercar I really don't expect anything.  Sad if it goes through as planned.

 

oh.  my.  god.  that is a TERRIBLE site plan.  thats the first time i've seen such a plan.  It is just so bad.  Who comes up with this shit?  This cannot happen. 

Form-based code anyone?

There's nothing inherently better about a form-based code compared to euclidian zoning.  It's just that those who support and developed form-based codes did so with the idea of making a "better zoning code" of some sort.  Cincinnati actually has a pretty good zoning code, even though it's not strictly form-based.  There's zones for walkable mixed-use areas, dense row houses, large apartments with little or no setbacks, etc.  The trouble is applying them correctly.  A form-based code won't help with the Millworks site if the form it's prescribing still requires large setbacks and low height limits.  The city could easily zone the site as UM (Urban Mixed) or CC-P (Commercial Community-Pedestrian)/CN-P (Commercial Neighborhood-Pedestrian) which even have form-based type build-to lines prescribed and which permits residential development as well.  A concession would be to use CC-M (Commercial Community-Mixed) which allows some more car-oriented development like drive-throughs and more parking, but still relegates cars to rear lots or side streets.  Of course the Millworks site is treated as a "Planned Development," which basically means anything goes, hence we get crap.   

Surprisingly there seems to be less parking in the current plan than in its previous incarnation:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,160.msg140168.html#msg140168 <----2006

 

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/files/2011/06/Oakley-Station-Illustrative-Site-Plan-03-31-11.pdf  <----2011

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/files/2011/06/Oakley-Station-Illustrative-Site-Plan-03-31-11.pdf  <----2011

 

That is horrifying. 

Sure that's not the 1971 plan?

Looks like Fields Ertel

Haaahahahahahahaha!

 

Smyjunas is such a piece of shit.

I can't wait to get my state-of-the-art movie theatre!

Demolition of those buildings is commencing, for what it's worth. They are preparing to scrap the interior in the coming weeks, with demolition set for summer. It's not on hold - it's progressing quite fast now, actually.

 

I was shocked at how quickly the homes in the area came down for the Kennedy Connector. I used to live (rent) in one of them and this project is one of the reasons we moved (buying a house was another) and one week we drove by and it was there, the next week we went by and it was a flat lot.

Barf. Just saw some renderings today in their construction trailer. It's like Rookwood all over again.

That site plan is the biggest "f*** you" I've ever seen expressed to a city/neighborhood/local population. Shame on Smyjunas (once again) and shame on anyone who ever spends a dime in this development.

As long as council keeps approving these sorts of things, it will never stop.

I was kind of hoping Rookwood Exchange would sign the movie theater first, leaving this POS w/o an anchor tenant and on hiatus indefinitely. 

That site plan is the biggest "f*** you" I've ever seen expressed to a city/neighborhood/local population. Shame on Smyjunas (once again) and shame on anyone who ever spends a dime in this development.

 

I'd rather spend money there than Newport.

Barf. Just saw some renderings today in their construction trailer. It's like Rookwood all over again.

 

We would be lucky if this development turned out as nice or successful as Rookwood. However, I do not think that will be the case. More like Center of Cincinnati all over again...http://urbn.cc/p23r.

Two cinemas say they will battle it out in Cincinnati

 

Business Courier - by Tom Demeropolis, Courier Staff Reporter

Date: Friday, July 8, 2011, 6:00am EDT - Last Modified: Friday, July 8, 2011, 9:15am EDT

 

Two state-of-the-art theaters are set to be built two miles apart in Oakley and Norwood. The projects will add 32 big screens to Cincinnati’s center, at a time when theaters are working harder to pull in visitors.

 

Yet the operators and developers for both projects say they are moving forward with their plans.

 

Jeffrey R. Anderson Real Estate Inc. of Norwood and Lansing, Mich.-based Neighborhood Cinema Group are scheduled to start construction before the end of the year on a 65,000-square-foot, 16-screen cinema announced in April at Rookwood Exchange. That’s planned as a $100 million project in Norwood with ...

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/07/08/two-cinemas-say-they-will-battle-it.html

Sorta like that Looney Tune where Bugs and Yosemite Sam are each driving their own locomotives heading for each other head on:

 

"I'm not stopping mine!"

 

"Well, I'm not stoppin' mine!"

Didn't they just close a theater in Bond Hill/Norword? I guess it's true, if you fail try and try again.

Didn't they just close a theater in Bond Hill/Norword? I guess it's true, if you fail try and try again.

 

National Amusements closed the theater in Bond Hill because it was outdated and they had plans for a new theater at Millworks.  Then the economy tanked and they sold the Florence location, which was a carbon copy of what would have been the Oakley theater.

 

I seriously doubt two theaters will open.  At this point it is all just a game to recruit additional tenants.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2011/09/01/oakley-station-developer-files-bankruptcy/

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/developingnow/2011/09/01/oakley-station-developer-files-bankruptcy/

 

So a guy who is $32 million in debt will be driving the awful redevelopment of this site still? Sounds like a good plan.  I was driving around what is left of these factories the other day, they're really attractive, and basically just expansive open framed spaces that have some excellent street frontage potential.  It's a shame they'll be replaced with a parking lot and a few buildings.

I wouldn't assume that this development is happening at all.

I wouldn't assume that this development is happening at all.

 

It's safer to assume the demolitions will happen.

I wouldn't assume that this development is happening at all.

 

It's safer to assume the demolitions will happen.

 

3/4 of the buildings are already gone.  The massive, old Milicron building is the only one still left.  It's a shame it isn't considered a historic site, as it has a rather attractive office building on the east end, and an easily reusable open factory floor that covers the entire length of the site.

I was referring to vandercar's ultimate plan for the site. Just because he's gotten the site largely demolished does't mean he has the finances or support to get anything else done. I'm saying that I doubt that he will get anything done on this site other than demolition.

Oakley approves theater design

90-foot sign doesn’t deter Oakley council

 

OAKLEY – The Oakley Community Council has voted in favor of a design plan for a new theater in the community. Construction of the theater is part of the first phase of the new Oakley Station development, which will be located at the former Cincinnati Milacron site at Marburg and Ibsen avenues.

 

The Cinemark theater, which will be about 56,000 square feet and house 14 screens, will be on the northwest side of the 74-acre development. The theater will have about 2,700 seats.

 

Cont

UGH!!!! I wish this whole project would shut down.  it's hideous and will be a big failure (just like several of the big box buildings Vandecar originally did have sat empty for years- The original Millworks plan was a thousand times better. 

 

Also- can a Mod change the title to Oakley Station

So I was out and about running errands a little earlier today. To my (very unfortunate) surprise, demolition has begun. Every time I passed this site I always imagined an AWESOME mixed use development. And now my favorite building on the site is all but gone.

Has anyone seen progress on this shopping center?? More or less interested in the Movie Theater.

I live about a mile from Oakley Station.  Just about all of the old factory buildings were torn down as of Sunday afternoon.  One taller partial structure is still standing approximately behind Meijer.  I suspect this will be down this week. 

 

There are tons of debris still remaining, some segregated by material type into different piles.  Site prep should follow that.  We're some time away from walls going up still.

 

On the subject of the Kennedy Connector - is it still on?  I know the city has bought out and torn down many structures on Ibsen.  I never understood how this was supposed to connect to Kennedy at Duck Creek since the Army Corps finished the 8' flood wall on Duck Creek this summer.

I know -  me too. I saw the rendering, the map, and then the flood wall went up.

Kennedy Connector will start this summer.

^ Ok but again, how do they connect it to Duck Creek Road with the flood wall right there at the edge of the road?  Are they going to cut out a section so they can do a removable gate?  Do they have other plans? 

they will be building a bridge over duck creek/flood wall. I think I saw it on building Cincinnati.

I've not seen documentation that says anything other than a bridge will be built over Duck Creek.  The question still remains how to deal with the flood wall.  It's several feet high and right next to Duck Creek Road.  That means that without a flood gate, the Kennedy/Duck Creek intersection would need to be raised to clear it, either with earthen fill or as a concrete bridge deck on columns.  Never mind the expense, it could also cause problems with access to the businesses near that intersection.  I can't remember exactly how high the flood wall is, but if it's only a few feet then it's not too difficult, but if it's more like 8-10 feet, then it's going to be a big problem and expense.  This project is already pushing $30 million, and will have hundreds of thousands of dollars in maintenance costs over its lifetime.  Is the City/State/Feds going to make back anything close to that amount in taxes, especially from the crap development this is supporting?  I don't think so.  Why isn't COAST crying boondoggle on this?

^I can remember when this project was authorized - Jeanne Schmidt sent everyone a wonderful letter as to how this would benefit the businesses and homes around there.  The best I can tell is that this protects primarily Ilsco along with a few other businesses.  (Guess which party Ilsco gives money to?)  For the money they've spent on the floodwall I suspect they could have built new facilities for those businesses on higher ground.  Should I mention here that in the six years I've lived in Oakley, my house on higher ground has had water in the basement, but that Duck Creek channel has never come close to breaching the old channel walls?

 

As for the floodwall, it's at least 8' at the intersection of Duck Creek and Kennedy, and it's not set back enough from the road to allow a connection with the wall in place (it'd be a 45 degree grade to do so).  The only thing I can envision is that they'd have to breach the wall, which I'm sure the Army Corps would not stand for.  Or perhaps they fly an overpass over the wall and Duck Creek Road and join with connector ramps (expensive!).

The Kennedy Connector will certainly be an improvement, but it's basically just putting a band-aid on traffic in the area.  ODOT needs to re-evaluate how the Norwood Lateral, I-71, and Ridge Road come together.  The current tangle of ramps and  cul-de-sacked roads looks like someone whimsically drew lines on a map.