Jesus.

 

Well, I'm diggin that aerial if we crop the bottom half out!

Absolutely nothing about that looks like it will be successful, much less good urban planning. What a fucking mess.

They have had to fill the old Circuit City with the liquidation sale and Pimpkins, if they could not get a permanent tenant for that space what are they expecting for this additional space? 

 

Also there was talk about a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at one point, anyone know anything more about that?

So...how long until Crossroads cashes out?  And uses the proceeds to build a space ship to fly their cult to the Andromeda Galaxy? 

^  HAHAHA!  They have to link up with Joel Osteen and his Houston followers first, then they all plan to rendezvous with the people on the Prometheus (or was it the Nostromo??).

I like how the rendering shows every parking space full.

^Yet there is no traffic on the side streets.

So...how long until Crossroads cashes out?  And uses the proceeds to build a space ship to fly their cult to the Andromeda Galaxy? 

 

LMAO

The "MMM" Mall?  (i.e., the Marburg-Mason-Merger Mall)  All the good things in life no more than 50 parking spaces from your car trunk...

^  HAHAHA!  They have to link up with Joel Osteen and his Houston followers first, then they all plan to rendezvous with the people on the Prometheus (or was it the Nostromo??).

 

I know there is environmental remediation that is going on there, but that site is one of those with potential hazards that would make me very nervous about moving in with children.

So where is the station?  Are they in any way incorporating that little B&O train station?  And ironically, one of the stations for the subway was to have been built right at Madison south of the B&O overpass.

They have had to fill the old Circuit City with the liquidation sale and Pimpkins, if they could not get a permanent tenant for that space what are they expecting for this additional space? 

 

Also there was talk about a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at one point, anyone know anything more about that?

Yeah, I harbor no illusions that the retail/restaurant parts will be full before 2020.  The Target across the street is the highest-grossing in the city, and all the other big boxes in the area do well.  Aside from a Best Buy or a Kroger Marketplace (despite the success of the Hyde Park Kroger, I can see them wanting to expand the concept in the area), I can't think of what else would go there that isn't already nearby.

 

And according to the renderings, I don't see a footbridge.

 

I like how the rendering shows every parking space full.

I'd love to know how many parking spaces exist between this development, Crossroads, and the whole of the Center of Cincinnati.  It's gotta be 5,000.  And to look at old aerials of when it was all Milacron and see that there were relatively few spaces despite it being one of the leading employers in the city.  Shows you how far we've fallen as a culture.

 

So where is the station?  Are they in any way incorporating that little B&O train station?  And ironically, one of the stations for the subway was to have been built right at Madison south of the B&O overpass.

I think the station is on the other side of the tracks from this development.  In this rendering, it's at bottom, just right of center:

 

http://www.oakley-station.com/asp/page.asp?ID=1072

Kennedy Connector Update: Tree clearing adjacent to Ibsen and Ridge (On the site of the old Precision Automation) is largely complete.  A few remaining buildings where the Lateral/71-S ramps split off of Ridge are mostly down.  I think just one house remains on Ibsen west of Ridge.  Temporary relocation of Duck Creek Road about 50 feet north is moving along quickly.

 

It's been awhile since I was [the street spelled D-I-S-N-E-Y, apparently the forum deletes that word] behind the Target/Sam's area where Cinemark will go, but last I checked a week or two ago it still looked like soil remediation was ongoing.  The rest of the site is still being cleared of demolition debris.  Site prep some time off still.

They have had to fill the old Circuit City with the liquidation sale and Pimpkins, if they could not get a permanent tenant for that space what are they expecting for this additional space? 

 

Also there was talk about a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at one point, anyone know anything more about that?

Yeah, I harbor no illusions that the retail/restaurant parts will be full before 2020.  The Target across the street is the highest-grossing in the city, and all the other big boxes in the area do well.  Aside from a Best Buy or a Kroger Marketplace (despite the success of the Hyde Park Kroger, I can see them wanting to expand the concept in the area), I can't think of what else would go there that isn't already nearby.

 

And according to the renderings, I don't see a footbridge.

 

I like how the rendering shows every parking space full.

I'd love to know how many parking spaces exist between this development, Crossroads, and the whole of the Center of Cincinnati.  It's gotta be 5,000.  And to look at old aerials of when it was all Milacron and see that there were relatively few spaces despite it being one of the leading employers in the city.  Shows you how far we've fallen as a culture.

 

So where is the station?  Are they in any way incorporating that little B&O train station?  And ironically, one of the stations for the subway was to have been built right at Madison south of the B&O overpass.

I think the station is on the other side of the tracks from this development.  In this rendering, it's at bottom, just right of center:

 

http://www.oakley-station.com/asp/page.asp?ID=1072

 

Best Buy seems like it would be a no-brainer for this development, especially if they have some visibility from the interstate. Some other possibilities could include maybe Kohl's, Barnes & Noble, Bed Bath & Beyond, Urban Outfitters ...?

Barnes and Noble and B-B-B are each within two exits off I-71.  Urban Outfitters might do well, but they're not a big box, and I think they do a pretty good business down at UC.  Kohl's seems like they prefer the far suburbs these days.

 

Big boxes within a few miles of Oakley Station:

 

Target

Meijer

Sam's

PetSmart

Home Depot

Lowe's

Wal-Mart

Bed, Bath, Beyond

DSW

Kroger (x2 if we count Norwood, three if you count the one that went out at Kenwood)

Bigg's x2

Whole Foods

REI (coming)

Nordstrom

Kohl's

Sears

Macy's

Barnes & Noble

Dick's

Toys R Us

Old Navy x2

LA Fitness

Urban Active x2

Crate & Barrel

Container Store

Nordstrom Rack

Stein Mart

Joseph-Beth

 

Plus dozens more that I'm either forgetting or arbitrarily decided didn't count as big boxes.  In other words, if it's a chain established in the Midwest, it's pretty much already covered - except Best Buy.

 

 

...Also there was talk about a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at one point, anyone know anything more about that?

Several posters (including myself) have noticed that there's absolutely no pedestrian access from the south side (Robertson Ave) into Oakley Station.  Ideally, such an underpass might be made just east of where Robertson crosses I-71 (at Millsbrae Ave) or at the end of 34th Ave (at Enyart St), but, for obvious reasons, it's not going to happen.  The nearest south-side pedestrian access is still at the very end of Enyart, adjacent to where the railroad crosses Madison Rd--thus this huge retail/residential complex is literally sealed off from ANY kind of access from the south.  Maybe this is a "non-issue," but something's not right about this picture.

There is no krogers in Kenwood. Best Buy is in trouble. I wouldn't want that there. H H Greg would  be better.

 

...Also there was talk about a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at one point, anyone know anything more about that?

Several posters (including myself) have noticed that there's absolutely no pedestrian access from the south side (Robertson Ave) into Oakley Station.  Ideally, such an underpass might be made just east of where Robertson crosses I-71 (at Millsbrae Ave) or at the end of 34th Ave (at Enyart St), but, for obvious reasons, it's not going to happen.  The nearest south-side pedestrian access is still at the very end of Enyart, adjacent to where the railroad crosses Madison Rd--thus this huge retail/residential complex is literally sealed off from ANY kind of access from the south.  Maybe this is a "non-issue," but something's not right about this picture.

 

The Oakley Community Council website has this:

 

Pedestrian Bridge for Oakley Station

 

Concerns have been raised about the Oakley Station development being isolated from the rest of the community, so an idea to build a pedestrian bridge over the railroad tracks at Enyart Ave will be explored and discussed at the next Oakley Community Council (OCC) meeting.  OCC wants to understand the community’s interest and concerns, so please plan to attend the next meeting September 6th at 7:00pm.  For more details you can read, Pedestrian Bridge Interest(Link coming soon).

 

That was months ago and no link or update.

I wouldn't mind a Best Buy. There is no decent close place around the city to buy a TV.

That Circuit City could have probably stayed open if the rest of the chain hadn't been in so much trouble.

Looks like the Cinemark Theater is back out for bid because they are going with CMU in lieu of tilt up concrete.  The bid package has a 300 day completion schedule from notice to proceed.

Are there any details about the theater?  Number of screens?  IMAX?  Alcohol served?  etc.  I live in that area and the theater is the only aspect of the project that I am looking forward to.  We really need movie theater in this area.

TIF ordinance will:

 

·        Fund up to $5M of road and infrastructure construction.

 

·        The new TIF (TIF B) will be used to construct the Vandercar Way extension through the center of the Oakley Station project, widen Marburg Avenue between Vandercar and Ibsen, and the construction of Factory Colony Lane between Vandercar Way extended and Disney Street (just east of the movie theater).  It includes the new roads, sidewalks, storm sewer, sanitary sewer, water main, underground electric and telephone ducts, traffic signal, street lights and street trees.

 

·        City Council approved the use of up to approximately $3,000,000 from the old Center of Cincinnati TIF.

 

·        The old TIF (TIF A) will be used for the reconstruction of Disney Street to a new 3-lane public street from Marburg Avenue (aligned with Ibsen) to its intersection with the Vandercar Way extension (in front of Cast-Fab on the western boundary of the project).  It also includes all associated street, sidewalk, utility, lighting and streetscaping

 

http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/C2/20120809/NEWS/308090043/Oakley-road-projects-ready-begin?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7C%7Cs

I didn't get any pictures, but the Kennedy Connector work did in fact have to breach the flood wall the Army Corps just built.  They're driving new steel plates (for lack of a better word) into the ground about 5-10 feet closer to Duck Creek at Kennedy.  These are the same sort of plates that were driven and then encased in concrete for the original flood wall.

I think there will be a small bridge over the creek.  They are moving Duck Creek  Rd further west. It will not be the same alignment as before.

I think there will be a small bridge over the creek.  They are moving Duck Creek  Rd further west. It will not be the same alignment as before.

 

Right, they obviously have to bridge the creek.  The curious part is that they are breaching the brand-new flood wall and moving it slightly north, even farther from the creek than it already was.  And I know they're realigning Duck Creek Rd., but from what I'm seeing, they'll have to fly it over ~8 ft of flood wall if the wall is going to continue to do its job.

 

I'll wait to see how it all plays out, and I wouldn't be surprised if what they're doing now is temporary, but it just seems a strange way to go about things - build the wall, breach the wall, move the wall, build a new road over the wall.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_east_cincinnati/oakley/oakley-hyde-park-restaurant-owners-say-theyll-fight-entertainment-district-at-new-oakley-station

 

Hmm they changed things?

Vandercar seems to be the sleaziest developer in town.  This is definitely not fair to existing restaurants. 

What is the exact nature of the changes?  It sounds like it's going back to a bit more mixed-use and higher density than the most recent plans.  Or am I wrong? 

They're driving new steel plates (for lack of a better word)...

 

Sheet piling?

They're driving new steel plates (for lack of a better word)...

 

Sheet piling?

 

Yeah, that's probably the word.  I'm not an engineer...

Sheet Piling is a method of retaining earth while you excavate (or sometimes to hold back a hill) and it is usually temporary. Here is an example of sheet piling. Is this what you saw? Because if so, that implies that work is starting and it seems weird to start work before approaching the community councils about the changed plans.

 

The sheet pilings are for the Kennedy Connector work, which is proceeding apace independent of the rest of the development. 

Correct the sheet piling is for the Kennedy connector.  The OS site has been mostly cleared of debris and general grading has begun.

^Jeffrey and OU02 have it right.

 

If I remember correctly, the Army Corps contractor that built the Duck Creek floodwall drove sheet piling and encased it in concrete for the entire length of the floodwall.  I'm working under the assumption that this is what's going on now - it looks like they're moving the (brand-new) wall a good 20-30 feet closer to Duck Creek Road. 

 

Though if it's common to use those for simple excavation, perhaps they're using it only temporarily as they work on something else - perhaps footings for an overpass over the wall and creek to the hillside beyond.

Just drove by it a bit ago - today they've encased much of the new sheet piling in concrete to match the existing wall.  One assumes the existing two-year-old wall behind the new wall will come down next?

 

Sorry to drone on about this minor detail, but it just screams of waste and poor planning to pay tear down a chunk of brand new flood wall and replace it with new relocated one, when a little coordination would have allowed the Army Corps to build it just once in the proper place for the Kennedy Connector.  It angers me that our federal taxes paid for the first wall to last only two years, then the TIF property taxes are paying to tear it down and move it thirty feet.

I was invited to this event on facebook today:

 

https://www.facebook.com/events/501266579903465/

 

SAVE OAKLEY!

 

An appeal to all those who can help preserve our business district...

 

Apparently Vandercarr (sp?), the developer of the Oakley Station Project ...the area between Oakley square and Crossroads Church have pulled a "switcheroo" on the intent of purpose of the development. They are now applying for approval to develop it as an entertainment district, with the issuance of 18 new liquor licenses. This would also include substantial parking.

 

I feel this personally affects not only Mark and Me but all of Oakley, Mt. Lookout, Hyde Park and O'Brianville.

 

"The pie has already been cut in enough pieces, and it seems to me the city is very interested in helping develop new business, but is very negligent in assisting the longevity of those who have been around for a substantial time, particularly smaller businesses." Stephanie Surgeon , owner of The Echo, Mt. Lookout Tavern, and Millions

 

The Vandercarr group will be bringing this issue to the Oakley Community Council meeting this coming Tuesday night @7:00pm The support of the neighborhood council is key to the approval of this proposed development, and I want to make sure as many folks as possible have access to accurate information so they can voice their concerns. As an owner of three businesses, all in Oakley I will be certain our voice will be heard. Any conversation regarding this is welcome, and any letters to the council can come to me so I can personally deliver to the Council. Thanks for your time and support.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_east_cincinnati/oakley/oakley-hyde-park-restaurant-owners-say-theyll-fight-entertainment-district-at-new-oakley-station

Why do all these business owners think that allowing this development to have restaurants and bars will kill their business?  I would imagine the type of establishments that would choose to locate there would mostly be chains, and different than the offerings that you would find in the Oakley or HP business districts.  I would love to see added residential, but don't think that restaurants and bars would be a terrible replacement for the big box stores.

^My quick take on the subject is that it seems by creating an entertainment district the city would be picking favorites.  Right now bars and restaurants in Oakley, Hyde Park, and Mount Lookout draw a good crowd and have built good businesses.  Here comes the city and says "Oh yeah, just plop down 12-15 new competitors for these businesses, waive the expense of a liquor license, and give them plenty of free parking."  It's essentially the city putting established businesses at a competitive disadvantage.

 

I can imagine a scenario where I organize a group to go to Habits on a weeknight.  Doubtless someone would say "Let's go to that new place at Oakley Station instead.  It's right off the highway, it's easy to find parking, and the drinks are cheaper."  If you were Habits' owner, you'd be peeved that the city made that happen, too.

 

It's sort of like a small town doing all it can to lure a Wal-Mart because of the promise of jobs.  It's short-sighted because even though the old family businesses might not compete directly with Wal-Mart, shoppers stop going into town altogether because they can get almost everything they want at one place, without fighting traffic or searching for parking.

 

Is this entertainment district a better fit than big box stores?  Maybe so, especially since upthread we talked about how there aren't too many big box stores that don't already have a location within five miles.  It could also turn out to be "The Banks Lite," with entertainment, food, and drink below high-density residential - and that sort of mixed use would be better than big boxes, I think we'd agree.  But the day Habit's, Arthur's, or MLT closes in favor of a Claddagh or Generic Sports Bar would be a sad day, especially if the city helps it happen.

The City should welcome new businesses at Oakley Station, whether they are big box or bars/restaurants.  But they absolutely should not be cutting the developers any breaks on liquor licenses or on City taxes.  These are likely to be out-of-town chain restaurants who will be competing with the locally-owned places in HP/Oakley. 

 

Still, I think that the local businesses are being a little paranoid.  Most people in the HP/Oakley area will favor the local places.  I would not make a habit of eating or drinking at some soulless big box bar.  It just isnt as fun as going to the locally owned dive.  I never eat at the PF Changs, Bucca de Beppo, etc. etc. at Rookwood, and I am not going to start when a new slew of places goes in at Oakley Station.  The type of person that goes to the big box restaurants isnt going to go to Habits or Zips anyway.  So don't sweat it.

^My quick take on the subject is that it seems by creating an entertainment district the city would be picking favorites.  Right now bars and restaurants in Oakley, Hyde Park, and Mount Lookout draw a good crowd and have built good businesses.  Here comes the city and says "Oh yeah, just plop down 12-15 new competitors for these businesses, waive the expense of a liquor license, and give them plenty of free parking."  It's essentially the city putting established businesses at a competitive disadvantage.

 

I can imagine a scenario where I organize a group to go to Habits on a weeknight.  Doubtless someone would say "Let's go to that new place at Oakley Station instead.  It's right off the highway, it's easy to find parking, and the drinks are cheaper."  If you were Habits' owner, you'd be peeved that the city made that happen, too.

 

It's sort of like a small town doing all it can to lure a Wal-Mart because of the promise of jobs.  It's short-sighted because even though the old family businesses might not compete directly with Wal-Mart, shoppers stop going into town altogether because they can get almost everything they want at one place, without fighting traffic or searching for parking.

 

Is this entertainment district a better fit than big box stores?  Maybe so, especially since upthread we talked about how there aren't too many big box stores that don't already have a location within five miles.  It could also turn out to be "The Banks Lite," with entertainment, food, and drink below high-density residential - and that sort of mixed use would be better than big boxes, I think we'd agree.  But the day Habit's, Arthur's, or MLT closes in favor of a Claddagh or Generic Sports Bar would be a sad day, especially if the city helps it happen.

 

But there are already plenty of those options within two miles of Habit's, MLTs, O'brien's, The Establishment, etc. and they don't seem to be hurting those local places at all. There's The Pub at Rookwood, Rusty Bucket, Longhorn, Bonefish, multiple Bdubs locations, not to mention the chains that will undoubtedly go into the new Rookwood and also at Xavier's new development.

So far, the city has used the entertainment district designation to help neighborhood business districts like Northside and Pleasant Ridge. It would be a shame for the city to start using this designation to benefit developers who are going to plop out a few chain restaurants in the middle of a sea of big box stores and parking lots.

To me, a strip mall bar isn't a replacement for a traditional bar in a walkable location. I know that's not true for everyone, but I think more of the deathmatches will be between the various chains themselves.

Didn't the Banks get an entertainment district designation as well? Have those new places affected the already established downtown businesses?

 

That said, my initial reaction to this news is to oppose the proposal. I like the entertainment districts when it means places like Django in Northside will open, or Emanu in Pleasant Ridge can get a liquor license, but I don't like them if it means 14 chain restaurants open up in Oakley.  I am not comfortable with the state (the state is the ultimate decider, correct?) granting these districts on the behest of a single developer. 

^Agreed.  I think if the developer wants to try to fill Oakley Station with bars and restaurants, fine- but the city shouldn't have to offer incentives like the entertainment designation.  It's not the proper use of such a designation, which as was pointed out up thread, is supposed to be used for the resuscitation of existing neighborhood business districts, not the creation of a singular development. 

Oakley Station entertainment district vote gets heated

Business Courier

Date: Wednesday, October 3, 2012, 8:02am EDT

 

A meeting in Oakley to vote on the proposed entertainment district at Oakley Station got heated last night, wlwt.com reported.

 

Local business owners and residents were heard loud and clear when they presented their opinions on the matter to the Oakley Community Council. The council heard at least 25 minutes of verbal battle after the developer of Oakley Station said it did not want a vote on the entertainment district.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2012/10/oakley-station-entertainment-district.html

I am strongly of the opinion that Applebee's doesn't need an entertainment district. Oakley Station is a horrible suburban style development. Very disappointing.

Personally, I can't wait for the year 2002 at Oakley Station! Nickelback will blast from every SUV.