^Now, now, be fair - it's only 3.3 acres under roof.  8.5 acres will be for the incredible shortage of parking in that area.  Duh...

 

So, Meijer, both Remke's, Fresh Market, and probably Whole Foods are all on notice.  That Fresh Thyme Market that's supposed to go into the old Circuit City doesn't stand a chance.  And I bet the food section at Target won't last much longer, either (not that it's hopping now).

 

So we'll have a really nice Kroger, but I have to think we'll have more giant empty boxes around, too.

I have been to the Target on Colerain a number of times & have seen next to nobody in the grocery section. They do have a number of odd items nobody else has. But that's probably because....

auto correct wanted to make the grocery section the groovy section.

:-)

^Now, now, be fair - it's only 3.3 acres under roof.  8.5 acres will be for the incredible shortage of parking in that area.  Duh...

 

So, Meijer, both Remke's, Fresh Market, and probably Whole Foods are all on notice.  That Fresh Thyme Market that's supposed to go into the old Circuit City doesn't stand a chance.  And I bet the food section at Target won't last much longer, either (not that it's hopping now).

 

So we'll have a really nice Kroger, but I have to think we'll have more giant empty boxes around, too.

 

Whole Food and Fresh Market are probably OK as they are smaller and more specialized. Same thing with Target; people may not do their main grocery shopping there, but I often grab a few groceries when I'm in there shopping for something else.

 

How is Meijer doing in general? I assume they are doing fine but they are never in the news for anything good or bad. The last time I noticed them was about 10 years ago when they introduced a new logo and started remodeling all of their stores.

I think they're on cruise control. Seems like Meijer has no problem building inside 275 but they don't have anything inside 270 anymore as far as I know so I haven't been in one lately.

^They still have that Meijer on Sawmill.

That's way up there!

But still within I-270 ;).

...So, Meijer, both Remke's, Fresh Market, and probably Whole Foods are all on notice.  That Fresh Thyme Market that's supposed to go into the old Circuit City doesn't stand a chance.  And I bet the food section at Target won't last much longer, either (not that it's hopping now).

 

So we'll have a really nice Kroger, but I have to think we'll have more giant empty boxes around, too.

Very much agree.  Akin to those ominous opening scenes in "Independence Day," Kroger finally hovers over Oakley Station with its biggest store locally and second largest store nationally.  And, as was mentioned, the shakeup/fallout amongst nearby big-box food retailers may prove catastrophic. (and how this new Marketplace store will affect either Kroger at Hyde Park or Surrey Square is anyone's guess)

 

Nevertheless, bring it on.  As for myself--if only out of curiosity--I hope to be one of the first shoppers through the doors!  :-D

...So, Meijer, both Remke's, Fresh Market, and probably Whole Foods are all on notice.  That Fresh Thyme Market that's supposed to go into the old Circuit City doesn't stand a chance.  And I bet the food section at Target won't last much longer, either (not that it's hopping now).

 

So we'll have a really nice Kroger, but I have to think we'll have more giant empty boxes around, too.

Very much agree.  Akin to those ominous opening scenes in "Independence Day," Kroger finally hovers over Oakley Station with its biggest store locally and second largest store nationally.  And, as was mentioned, the shakeup/fallout amongst nearby big-box food retailers may prove catastrophic. (and how this new Marketplace store will affect either Kroger at Hyde Park or Surrey Square is anyone's guess)

 

Nevertheless, bring it on.  As for myself--if only out of curiosity--I hope to be one of the first shoppers through the doors!  :-D

 

yeah this is probably true...if so hopefully they knock them down quickly and move on to redevelop instead of just letting them sit there for forever...it would be great to keep upping the density in this area, which even though oakley station will be a lot of big boxes, at least the apartments and office buildings add more density...more of this please!

Very much agree.  Akin to those ominous opening scenes in "Independence Day," Kroger finally hovers over Oakley Station with its biggest store locally and second largest store nationally.  And, as was mentioned, the shakeup/fallout amongst nearby big-box food retailers may prove catastrophic. (and how this new Marketplace store will affect either Kroger at Hyde Park or Surrey Square is anyone's guess)

 

Nevertheless, bring it on.  As for myself--if only out of curiosity--I hope to be one of the first shoppers through the doors!  :-D

 

I forgot about the one in Norwood.  I think that one will continue to serve a somewhat different clientele - the Surrey Square Kroger sees a good part of its clientele from the bus line from places like Avondale.  Kroger has pledged to keep the Hyde Park store open.  That one will look positively quaint in comparison.

 

I'm sort of OK with this move, too.  I won't be first in line like Subocincy, but I imagine it'll be where we end up shopping.  Remke's takeover of Bigg's was a bad one in my view - the quality of Remke's foods, especially produce, is mediocre at best, though they have a good beer selection at Hyde Park.  Meijer is only OK too.  The Hyde Park Kroger is always jam-packed so I avoid it.

^ the HP Kroger is always jam-packed, but there is really no reason to avoid it.  They do an amazing job ensuring that there is never a line to check out.  They keep the check out lines moving.  I think the parking issue there is overblown as well.  You might have to walk 50 extra feet than you would at a less busy store.  Not a big deal. 

^ the HP Kroger is always jam-packed, but there is really no reason to avoid it.  They do an amazing job ensuring that there is never a line to check out.  They keep the check out lines moving.  I think the parking issue there is overblown as well.  You might have to walk 50 extra feet than you would at a less busy store.  Not a big deal. 

 

Yeah, I was always amazed that they had virtually every checkout line open at most of the busy times. However it’s been a few years since I’ve shopped there. For some reason I’m attached to the Corry Street Kroger near UC. It’s 3 minutes from my house, and I tend to spend 25% less per trip because I’m not tempted by any upscale brands because they don’t have any. When they do eventually tear down the UC Kroger, I’ll probably switch back to the OTR Kroger, as it is basically equidistant from my house, and I don’t like nice things. I think the Oakley Station Kroger will be worth a visit, but I don't think it'll be my regular store, because it will have too many options for my tastes.

Maybe they can convert the Hyde Park store into a Kroger Fresh Fare. Is that still a thing?

^ the HP Kroger is always jam-packed, but there is really no reason to avoid it.  They do an amazing job ensuring that there is never a line to check out.

 

It's not so much the checkout lines or parking for me.  I just don't much like a crowded grocery store - it's just a bit harder to get around when there's a ton of people with carts.  When the HP Kroger was my store I would try to shop at off-times just because I could get in and out more quickly.

I'm obviously not the target customer for Kroger, because I really hate their ginormous stores.  The new(ish) Blue Ash Kroger might be the only exception because pretty much everything they have is grocery related, and it's not quite as large as some of the other new stores.  They fill that store with a large selection of international foods, a state liquor store, and a huge Kosher section of the store with a Kosher deli and bakery and everything.  Contrast that to the Anderson and Newport mega-stores that fill their spaces with furniture and even jewelry stores.  I mean, who is buying jewelry at the freakin' grocery store?

 

I much prefer the Trader Joes experience.  High quality, limited selection, emphasis on the semi-prepared and frozen foods. I'm usually in and out within 30 minutes, and rarely end up spending too much.

I've always thought that buying cheap food is one way to get back at The Man.  The newer the store, the more sophisticated its ability to motivate impulse purchases. 

 

I always find it really difficult to eat all of the groceries I buy before they go bad.  Remember, when groceries go bad, The Man wins. 

This store sounds like my worst nightmare.  Y'all can have it.  I'm going to stick to my smaller, neighborhood store. 

 

I doubt this will happen, but I would LOVE to see the Surrey Square Kroger knocked down and a mixed use housing development with first floor retail including a grocer like Aldi, Trader Joes, or something else smaller scale.  Maybe even a Walmart Neighborhood Market.  As long as it fills out the parking area and allows walking access from the neighborhood. 

 

 

I wish that happened - but Surrey Square was just rebuilt. It's horrible in how it's laid out - no connections to the east, fast food restaurants and a strip mall whose parking lots really have no definition, a poorly designed parking area in general.

I would have like to have seen that totally '80s little mall inside left alone.

Took a bike ride today out to Oakley Station.  It's hideous!  No way GE is building here unless they can compel Crossroads to sell its prime Madison Rd. frontage.  Not many high-levels are going to move from Connecticut to work in a poorly redeveloped industrial site in Ohio.

Maybe they can convert the Hyde Park store into a Kroger Fresh Fare. Is that still a thing?

 

There is a Kroger Fresh Fare in Kettering, and I just saw a couple in Texas.

Took a bike ride today out to Oakley Station.  It's hideous!  No way GE is building here unless they can compel Crossroads to sell its prime Madison Rd. frontage.  Not many high-levels are going to move from Connecticut to work in a poorly redeveloped industrial site in Ohio.

Jake--as much as I agree with you on so many things, here I'm really asking you to modify your perception of Oakley Station, at least as applied to GE...

 

No, "Oakley Station" isn't what any of us ever wanted (especially after we were shown the possibilities of a revamped Milacron complex with its former structure intact), but consider that: (1) this isn't MASON,  a terrible choice for well-known reasons; (2) this isn't EVENDALE, as some misguided posters have wished for; and lastly and most importantly; (3) this isn't Columbus, no matter how much Kasich and his cronies prayed otherwise.

 

No matter what, not some generic "SW OHIO," but actually the "city" of Cincinnati, itself, is about to gain 1,400-2,000 high-paying jobs and the additional presence of one prestigious F10 company!  Obviously, many of us wish GE will relocate at either the "Banks" or elsewhere within the city's CBD.  But, if GE decides otherwise (and also considering what we already appreciate about Oakley/Hyde Park/Norwood, etc.), would "Oakley Station" really be that bad a second choice?  (ie, the virtual center of Cincy proper, connected to numerous major traffic arteries, surrounded by a wealth of upscale  retail amenities, and soon to be serviced by this region's most prestigious Kroger Marketplace store...  (:roll:).  Now, tell me, what's there not to like about this second-best,  centralized, city proper location?  (:wtf:)

 

Maybe the Kennedy connector can finally get some use.

Took a bike ride today out to Oakley Station.  It's hideous!  No way GE is building here unless they can compel Crossroads to sell its prime Madison Rd. frontage.  Not many high-levels are going to move from Connecticut to work in a poorly redeveloped industrial site in Ohio.

Jake--as much as I agree with you on so many things, here I'm really asking you to modify your perception of Oakley

 

No matter what, not some generic "SW OHIO," but actually the "city" of Cincinnati, itself, is about to gain 1,400-2,000 high-paying jobs and the additional presence of one prestigious F10 company! 

 

 

It will probably be much more than 2000 jobs when it is all said and done because it will create other jobs in hospitality, food service, and other industries, and even suppliers to GE that want to be near the ops center. These 2000 jobs will likely have a multiplier effect felt outside of just GE.

Maybe the Kennedy connector can finally get some use.

 

I know this doesn't belong here but I'm in that area all the time and there is nobody using it. Of course this should be a surprise, why on earth would anyone use it?  The funny part is the sidewalk they put in, like anyone is going to be walking in that area.  What a waste.

Maybe the Kennedy connector can finally get some use.

 

I know this doesn't belong here but I'm in that area all the time and there is nobody using it. Of course this shouldn't be a surprise, why on earth would anyone use it?  The funny part is the sidewalk they put in, like anyone is going to be walking in that area.  What a waste.

Took a bike ride today out to Oakley Station.  It's hideous!  No way GE is building here unless they can compel Crossroads to sell its prime Madison Rd. frontage.  Not many high-levels are going to move from Connecticut to work in a poorly redeveloped industrial site in Ohio.

Jake--as much as I agree with you on so many things, here I'm really asking you to modify your perception of Oakley Station, at least as applied to GE...

 

No, "Oakley Station" isn't what any of us ever wanted (especially after we were shown the possibilities of a revamped Milacron complex with its former structure intact), but consider that: (1) this isn't MASON,  a terrible choice for well-known reasons; (2) this isn't EVENDALE, as some misguided posters have wished for; and lastly and most importantly; (3) this isn't Columbus, no matter how much Kasich and his cronies prayed otherwise.

 

No matter what, not some generic "SW OHIO," but actually the "city" of Cincinnati, itself, is about to gain 1,400-2,000 high-paying jobs and the additional presence of one prestigious F10 company!  Obviously, many of us wish GE will relocate at either the "Banks" or elsewhere within the city's CBD.  But, if GE decides otherwise (and also considering what we already appreciate about Oakley/Hyde Park/Norwood, etc.), would "Oakley Station" really be that bad a second choice?  (ie, the virtual center of Cincy proper, connected to numerous major traffic arteries, surrounded by a wealth of upscale  retail amenities, and soon to be serviced by this region's most prestigious Kroger Marketplace store...  (:roll:).  Now, tell me, what's there not to like about this second-best,  centralized, city proper location?  (:wtf:)

 

 

I'd rather see it at the Banks, but Evendale makes a heck of a lot of sense financially.

 

Lots of prime interstate frontage, they have a site large enough to put a 400,000 sq. ft., 1-story building if they wanted to, they own the land, and it's already secure. Here's a graphic I did on a potential site:

 

(link if pic doesn't display):

 

Why put it at a suburban Oakley or Mason location and pay millions for the site when you could just do it at Evendale and get it all for free? I'm betting GE uses this as a bargaining chip to drive their total taxes paid to Evendale down.

 

Yeah, not only is the Oakley location not visible from I-71, it's not even visible from Oakley. 

 

If low costs were GE's primary goal, this thing would be in Montana.  The increased cost of locating Downtown is probably incidental relative to the whole cost of this project, and will help with recruiting and entertaining clients. 

Noticed today that the former Circuit City location is undergoing renovations, presumably for the Fresh Thyme Market.

Cant see them going to Evendale. Yes, GE owns the land but that is GEAE and this is GE corporate. I doubt they would want to intermingle the jobs especially since they will support areas outside of GEAE.

I'd rather see it at the Banks, but Evendale makes a heck of a lot of sense financially.

 

Didn't GE Aviation itself actually move a couple hundred office jobs from Sharonville to Union Centre a few years back? That would have made the most sence to be in Evendale, if land costs were the concern.

I'd rather see it at the Banks, but Evendale makes a heck of a lot of sense financially.

 

Didn't GE Aviation itself actually move a couple hundred office jobs from Sharonville to Union Centre a few years back? That would have made the most sence to be in Evendale, if land costs were the concern.

I think that was a consolidation of Engineering jobs from several locations in Finneytown and some from Evendale

Yes their complex is on Union Center at Cincinnati-Dayton, opposite Dimmick Rd.  The buildings are ugly and the site is barren. You can't walk to anything. 

Yes their complex is on Union Center at Cincinnati-Dayton, opposite Dimmick Rd.  The buildings are ugly and the site is barren. You can't walk to anything. 

 

You must have never been to Evendale Jake. It may not be barren land, but there is nothing but old factory buildings and a ton of security to go through.

Yes their complex is on Union Center at Cincinnati-Dayton, opposite Dimmick Rd.  The buildings are ugly and the site is barren. You can't walk to anything.

 

It is an engineering function for crying out loud. Why do you want to walk to anything? You come to work, do your job, and go home, simple. Does it have its own cafeteria for lunch? Far better to have an onsite lunch capability. Just like the facility I worked at in Mason. We rarely went out for lunch as the internal cafeteria was just so much more convenient and cost effective as it was subsidized by the company. The cafeteria employees were our own people, not some farmed out operation. The cafeteria manager reported internally just like any other department head and the employees received company benefits just like the rest of us. When we had outside customers in for sales presentations there were a couple of small dining rooms for privacy but the food was prepared by our own cafeteria. It sure optimized the time spent rather than going to external restaurants. Our cooks were very capable and could easily work in a restaurant. But working for us they received benefits they would not typically have in the normal restaurant. All of the food was prepared onsite, usually from scratch, not just dumped out of a can. When our Mason facility was built, the company president decided the cafeteria would be our own operation and geared to keeping the employees onsite to minimize interference with the work day. I must say it worked very well. Since I retired, occasionally I will drop in to visit some of my former colleagues, and I always time it to be there during lunch.

 

Industrial facilities are just that, industrial. Their purpose is to provide a pleasant and efficient environment for working. They are not designed to attract the general public.

Just another comment concerning industrial facilities. The company I worked for in Mason did have another feature designed for employee convenience. That was a fully equipped workout facility, featuring a variety of weight training and exercise equipment, etc. They encouraged employees to come early and utilize the workout facility. During the hours the workout facility was available there was always an attendant present, I understand for safety and liability reasons. After working out there were showers and dressing facilities. For those who desired, you could then go to the cafeteria for either juice, coffee and donuts, or have a cook whip up a hot breakfast of pancakes, bacon and eggs, etc. The cooks were there making preparations for lunch so preparing a few breakfasts was no big deal.

 

You'd be surprised how many employees utilized this. There was no charge for the workout facility, it was just another company supplied availability. Sure beat going to some external gym type organization requiring a membership, and then trying to get to work on time.

Yes their complex is on Union Center at Cincinnati-Dayton, opposite Dimmick Rd.  The buildings are ugly and the site is barren. You can't walk to anything.

 

It is an engineering function for crying out loud. Why do you want to walk to anything? You come to work, do your job, and go home, simple. Does it have its own cafeteria for lunch? Far better to have an onsite lunch capability. Just like the facility I worked at in Mason. We rarely went out for lunch as the internal cafeteria was just so much more convenient and cost effective as it was subsidized by the company. The cafeteria employees were our own people, not some farmed out operation. The cafeteria manager reported internally just like any other department head and the employees received company benefits just like the rest of us. When we had outside customers in for sales presentations there were a couple of small dining rooms for privacy but the food was prepared by our own cafeteria. It sure optimized the time spent rather than going to external restaurants. Our cooks were very capable and could easily work in a restaurant. But working for us they received benefits they would not typically have in the normal restaurant. All of the food was prepared onsite, usually from scratch, not just dumped out of a can. When our Mason facility was built, the company president decided the cafeteria would be our own operation and geared to keeping the employees onsite to minimize interference with the work day. I must say it worked very well. Since I retired, occasionally I will drop in to visit some of my former colleagues, and I always time it to be there during lunch.

 

Industrial facilities are just that, industrial. Their purpose is to provide a pleasant and efficient environment for working. They are not designed to attract the general public.

 

So the cost vs benefits of office location revolve around...eating in the cafeteria.

 

Yes their complex is on Union Center at Cincinnati-Dayton, opposite Dimmick Rd.  The buildings are ugly and the site is barren. You can't walk to anything.

 

It is an engineering function for crying out loud. Why do you want to walk to anything? You come to work, do your job, and go home, simple. Does it have its own cafeteria for lunch? Far better to have an onsite lunch capability. Just like the facility I worked at in Mason. We rarely went out for lunch as the internal cafeteria was just so much more convenient and cost effective as it was subsidized by the company. The cafeteria employees were our own people, not some farmed out operation. The cafeteria manager reported internally just like any other department head and the employees received company benefits just like the rest of us. When we had outside customers in for sales presentations there were a couple of small dining rooms for privacy but the food was prepared by our own cafeteria. It sure optimized the time spent rather than going to external restaurants. Our cooks were very capable and could easily work in a restaurant. But working for us they received benefits they would not typically have in the normal restaurant. All of the food was prepared onsite, usually from scratch, not just dumped out of a can. When our Mason facility was built, the company president decided the cafeteria would be our own operation and geared to keeping the employees onsite to minimize interference with the work day. I must say it worked very well. Since I retired, occasionally I will drop in to visit some of my former colleagues, and I always time it to be there during lunch.

 

Industrial facilities are just that, industrial. Their purpose is to provide a pleasant and efficient environment for working. They are not designed to attract the general public.

 

It's called providing options.  I work in an "industrial facility" like you are describing, one that was retrofitted to suit a tech company.  Just as Jake put it... the building is ugly, the site is barren, and you can't walk to anything.  The job is great, but being at that office is really depressing.  The difference in what you're describing is that we don't even have a cafeteria.  All else being equal, I'd much rather be at a facility that has lunch options within walking distance, even if we had a cafeteria, because sometimes you need to get out of there and clear your head. 

 

EDIT:  Before someone responds with "you have the option to leave and work for a company with a better office", I am currently considering that, mainly because of the office situation. 

Suburban campus-style facilities NEED to have things like cafeterias, fitness centers, spas, libraries, and such because they have no other choice, especially if they're employing white-collar office workers as GE is doing with this facility (it's not a "factory" or "manufacturing facility").  If employees can't go out to lunch without driving for half the time, or take care of any other basic needs due to their long commute or isolated location, then they need to have an alternative.  If you have to brown-bag it every day or go without, that's a pretty low quality of life and few people would opt to work there, so the employers have to provide those services at great expense.  It gets old quickly too.  Large downtown corporate headquarters usually have a cafeteria too, but it's one of a myriad of choices for a quick cheap lunch.  It's not a choice in the suburban campus so much as it's a consolation.

The large suburban style centers are often back office operations. It is often in the company's best interest to keep the back office professionals as close to their desk/campus as possible.  Look at Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc. They build huge suburban office park campuses. The workers have a few dining options through the company cafeterias but for the most part they do not leave campus. Their goal is not to go directly out to the customer so there is no need to encourage them to leave.

 

In GE's case, that would be appropriate with their model. This is going to be a back office operations center. Typically, it is located in the suburban office parks, etc. because of the cost and type of worker who works there. I think KJBRILL hitting on was this fact.

 

Look at the companies in the urban core (attorney's, banks, corp HQ). Go to any city and see that these businesses are in this location because it connects them closest with the customer base. The engineers and architects who have downtown offices are the ones who are customer focused not back office like GE.

 

As much as I would love to see the banks, given the type of job that is being filled, it almost fits better at Oakley or Mason.

Some people prefer the suburban campus style office layout, with all sorts of amenities on site and under one roof. There are a few I visit in other cities for work frequently, and I find them depressing. There's no more convenience in having an on-site cafeteria than there is working downtown and having a cafe next door. The difference is you actually get to step foot outside of your company for a brief moment.

 

I suppose Oakley would be a mix of the two styles, as there will be some restaurants within walking distance, though it'd likely be an unpleasant walk through a parking lot.

The large suburban style centers are often back office operations. It is often in the company's best interest to keep the back office professionals as close to their desk/campus as possible.  Look at Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc. They build huge suburban office park campuses. The workers have a few dining options through the company cafeterias but for the most part they do not leave campus. Their goal is not to go directly out to the customer so there is no need to encourage them to leave.

 

In GE's case, that would be appropriate with their model. This is going to be a back office operations center. Typically, it is located in the suburban office parks, etc. because of the cost and type of worker who works there. I think KJBRILL hitting on was this fact.

 

Look at the companies in the urban core (attorney's, banks, corp HQ). Go to any city and see that these businesses are in this location because it connects them closest with the customer base. The engineers and architects who have downtown offices are the ones who are customer focused not back office like GE.

 

As much as I would love to see the banks, given the type of job that is being filled, it almost fits better at Oakley or Mason.

 

Yes this has long been the trend. Even in places like Orange County Ca., larger back office operations have been shifted to the

Inland Empire Office Market or even Phoenix.

I just don't see a ton of incentive for GE to locate at the Banks unless they want their logo on the Cincinnati skyline, are really going for a YP workforce, etc.

 

I would rather see them go to the Banks, but I don't see why it would happen when they already hold as much prime real estate as they do along I-75.

Evendale security is intense.

Perhaps Evendale would be the choice if land acquisition cost were the only consideration, but that is not the only consideration.  GE will consider dozens of other factors, (employee moral, proximity to a major airport, proximity to other business, hotels, restaurants, etc., etc.)

I just don't see a ton of incentive for GE to locate at the Banks unless they want their logo on the Cincinnati skyline, are really going for a YP workforce, etc.

 

I would rather see them go to the Banks, but I don't see why it would happen when they already hold as much prime real estate as they do along I-75.

 

Well, they've already been pretty clear that they are not going to Evendale, so their real estate holdings on I-75 don't seem to be that relevant.  Unless they have real estate holdings on I-75 near Mason and that is what you are meaning, in which case disregard this comment.

 

Take a look inside Oakley’s luxury apartments, the Boulevard: SLIDESHOW   

Tom Demeropolis Reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The Boulevard at Oakley Station is one of the largest new luxury apartment projects to open in Greater Cincinnati.

 

Now, months after welcoming its first residents, the apartments that make up a portion of the mixed-use Oakley Station development are holding a grand opening.

 

To view a slideshow of the Boulevard, click on the image to the right.

 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/22/take-a-look-inside-oakley-s-luxury-apartments-the.html

Are saltwater pools the big thing nowadays?

the term is a bit misleading. its not an ocean. but yeah... saltwater pools are gaining in popularity. less maintenance, less chemicals, softer on skin and eyes etc, similar antimicrobial properties

The apartments themselves don't look that nice for the rents they are charging.