January 30, 200817 yr Will Oakley's Millworks ever happen? BY JANE PRENDERGAST | [email protected] OAKLEY – The stalled $200 million Millworks development project must move ahead soon, or the city could lose a $3 million state grant that was supposed to help pay to clean up the former Cincinnati Milling Machine site. Cincinnati City Council votes today on whether to let City Manager Milton Dohoney enter into a development agreement for the site, which at 67 acres is second only to the Banks riverfront project in size of city projects. Past councils have voted similar approvals three prior times since 2005, but changes in developers, market conditions and other factors have kept construction from starting on the project, which officials expect to include retail, office, condos, rental housing and a hotel.
January 30, 200817 yr Something will happen there. It is just too big and valuable. We may have to move through another cycle. I'd be willing to let it sit and wait for the right development. I'd actually prefer high-tech industrial to more housing though that is unlikely. We'll probably have to wait through the business cycle to see something happen. This whole will be the 'next big' spot, but not right now.
January 30, 200817 yr :-D That church traffic is awful around there when there is a service. If they are going to ever go ahead with the millworks project they had better fix the roadway congestion.
January 30, 200817 yr Order of preference for that little corner of Oakley: 1. Turn the church back into a hardware store. 2. A museum (smallish) that details the history of Cincinnati's machine tool industry. 3. Development of Target and Meijer's outlots into something besides a sea of parking which is never used.
January 30, 200817 yr 2. A museum (smallish) that details the history of Cincinnati's machine tool industry. There never was one ... do you even know what you're talking about?!
January 31, 200817 yr Allow the Decepticons to make energon cubes there. Starscream: "Soundwave! We've got to get to Cincinnati Milacron for more energy! Then, I will become the new leader of the Decepticons!"
January 31, 200817 yr 2 . A museum (smallish) that details the history of Cincinnati's machine tool industry. There never was one ... do you even know what you're talking about?! Actually there was I used to go there every 5-10 years since I was a kid. I am very bummed that was torn down.
January 31, 200817 yr 2 . A museum (smallish) that details the history of Cincinnati's machine tool industry. There never was one ... do you even know what you're talking about?! Actually there was I used to go there every 5-10 years since I was a kid. I am very bummed that was torn down. I'm just joking around with dmerkow. ;)
February 2, 200817 yr Cincinnati council gives go-ahead for Millworks Business Courier of Cincinnati - by Braden Lammers Courier Contributor Another amendment to the long-awaited mixed-use development, Millworks Town Center in Oakley, has been approved by Cincinnati City Council. Council, on Wednesday, authorized City Manager Milton Dohoney to complete a development agreement for the project. The $300 million, 67-acre development, which has been in the planning stages since 2003, is expected to generate nearly 3,700 jobs and an earnings tax of $2.2 million. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/01/28/daily60.html
February 2, 200817 yr Now if you payed special attention then you saw that a theatre will be housed there so what will happen to the Showcase Cinemas in Bond Hill? That spot is now incredibly important you've got great access to the highway and great visibility; perhaps housing?
February 3, 200817 yr Hopefully the Bond Hill Showcase would be some type of mixed use development. This all bodes well for me, having just bought a house off ross road. Then again, I could be thinking positive and Showcase will sit vacant for 10 years and be a drain on public resources. o.a.r.
February 3, 200817 yr I am thinking four story buildings around an elliptical center park with two boulevards running east and west flanked by three story buildings. north south cross streets with two story buildings and pocket parks at regular intervals.
February 3, 200817 yr you really don't need a degree to be a planner, just read like six books and visit some nice places. just steal everyone else's ideas. Anything that could have been a better civic layout would have been thought up by now, its like trying to come up with a new sexual position. Everything under the sun worth doing has been done already.
February 3, 200817 yr you really don't need a degree to be a planner, just read like six books and visit some nice places. just steal everyone else's ideas. The ideas/concepts are not difficult...it is being able to explain why/how they work that separates the non-professional and the professional. This can be said about many professions.
February 3, 200817 yr That and the math and the slightly imperious attitude about making pretty drawings that will make the world a better place or so you think.
February 6, 200817 yr I would like to see Millworks happen. The city needs a new movie theatre. Other than Esquire & Mariemont, if we want to see a movie we are stuck with one of the megaplexes in the northern burbs. The Reading Showcase is a dump, I won't go there. I would rather watch a movie in the small prison camp theatre in the Esquire (the one on the left) then go to the Reading Showcase.
February 7, 200817 yr The way the developers of the Millworks Showcase Cinema Lux talk, they believe they will be building that theater even if everything else in the project falls through. I would expect the theater to be the first thing built... Also, the Millworks theater is going to be the same as the one currently under construction in Florence. The 'Cinema Lux' line will easily be the best theaters in the area.
February 7, 200817 yr There is a Cinema De Lux in Springdale. It has a piano bar, IMAX theatre, Sbarro Pizza and Nathans Hot Dogs inside.
February 7, 200817 yr Would a new theater at Millworks be the final straw for Cincinnati Theater in Norwood? Maybe they go to the $1.50 format for a year then close down?
February 7, 200817 yr It has a piano bar, IMAX theatre, Sbarro Pizza and Nathans Hot Dogs inside Sounds like a real winner to me! :wink: Eatin wieners at the piano bar
February 7, 200817 yr There is a Cinema De Lux in Springdale. It has a piano bar, IMAX theatre, Sbarro Pizza and Nathans Hot Dogs inside. oops. no IMAX, but there is Starbucks, Nathan's, two other food chains, a full serivce bar, and an upper level of VIP seating in the bigger theaters with recliners and drink tables.
June 9, 200817 yr What is going on with the Kennedy Connector? Does anyone else think it would make more sense to fix the existing Ridge Road/Norwood Lateral/I-71 interchanges than to build the connector?
July 23, 200816 yr Vision Land puts Millworks plans on website http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2008/07/vision-land-puts-millworks-plans-on.html *Three 3d models and 4 site plans included in this article
July 23, 200816 yr ^ It seems as though they have abandoned any thoughts of reusing some of the existing buildings. That is very disappointing to me. I think this can really be a great project and a definate plus for the Oakley/Madisonville neighborhoods.
July 23, 200816 yr The Megachurch next door sure does have a lot of parking spaces. It makes the area seem much more desolate.
July 23, 200816 yr The Megachurch next door sure does have a lot of parking spaces. It makes the area seem much more desolate. That, and the huge electrical substation just south of the church doesn't help either. It's certainly not the prettiest area. Normally, I think streescaping projects are highly overrated. However, this section of Oakley could really use the investment in some more landscaping, street trees, and a few decorative walls.
July 23, 200816 yr Unfortunately, those Milacron buildings are massive. There really isn't anything that would work that wouldn't end up being a crappy indoor mall thing. I also imagine there will have to be quite a bit of environmental remediation before this thing ever gets off the ground. I keep hoping for a better use of the HQ.
July 24, 200816 yr Just build it, I want a Movie Theatre in the city for nights where Esquire & Mariemont don't fill the void. And please don't say Newport...
July 24, 200816 yr And please don't say Newport... But it seems like a Millworks movie theater would be quite similar to the Newport theater. It would be a lifestyle center type theater that would serve hordes of teenie-boppers. Why would Newport be unacceptable but this one be okay? (Plus Newport is more "in the city" than the Millworks site anyway)
July 24, 200816 yr Newport is not only another city, but another state. I know I conscientiously spend my money at businesses located within Cincinnati city limits. If I have to go outside of that then I try to stay inside Hamilton County. So while Newport is more in the urban core than Oakley, I can see why some people would prefer spending their money at businesses that are supporting their particular community.
July 24, 200816 yr ^ I appreciate the clear and polite response UncleRando, although I would argue that the kind of localism you describe is very misguided. The city of Cincinnati is populated by a tremendous number of people who are "tax-losses" because they take more in city services than they pay in taxes. Consequently the city of Cincinnati is kept alive through revenue generated by "outsiders." The non-residential property that fuels the city's income is sustained through people who live outside the city limits yet choose to work, shop, and play within city limits. For example, the management at downtown's major corporations rarely live within city limits. Imagine what would happen if they moved their opperations to support their local community. Thankfully, they are more regionally minded than locally minded. If everyone in the metro region chose to support their particular community above all others, the City of Cincinnati would clearly be the first to wither and die. Maybe in 50 years changing trends will cause all the tax-generating people to move within city limits, and all the tax-taking people to flee to suburban ghettos. But until then, true localism is actually the biggest possible threat to a city like this one. Anyway, I'm sorry, because this is all horribly off-topic. I won't post any more about localism in this thread. But I'm always up for friendly debates :)
July 24, 200816 yr Job/office location is a different ballgame than choosing where to shop/spend your money. A better example would be shopping at Kroger over Biggs, WalMart, or wherever because they employ people locally. Or by opening accounts at 5/3 over others because they too are local whether or not they offer the best prices and/or deals.
July 24, 200816 yr I strongly disagree. Job location is just as relevant to shopping location. It fact, from a tax standpoint, job location has a much stronger impact on the tax base than shopping location. But regardless, ALL those companies employ people locally. Do the Cincinnatians who work at Biggs deserve your money less than the Cincinnatians who work at Kroger? Working-class people work at all of these stores. The biggest difference is that Kroger, 5/3, Federated, P&G etc all have their headquarters here - I understand that. But do you really think that all the upper management actually lives within city limits? The majority live in Mason, Montgomery, Kentucky, etc. By shopping at Kroger over Biggs, you're just supporting "Cincinnati" office workers who by-and-large don't even live in city limits. You wouldn't want to live in a Cincinnati where people chose the "local" option over the "best deal" option. There is only ONE person on my entire block who is a Cincinnati native. The rest of us all came from Florida, Mass, Illinios, Kentucky, California, etc. We are only here because we could get a slightly "better deal" by working in Cincy over working in our hometowns. If we all thought "locally" we would have stayed in our home states, and taken a slightly worse deal to be closer to home. Then all of our spending, property taxes, and city income taxes would never exist. Indeed, many of us know that we probably won't spend the rest of our lives here. If we were localists, should we even spend our money at Cincinnati stores? Perhaps my wife should do all her clothing shopping at Steinmart instead of Macys because Steinmart is based in our true hometown?
July 24, 200816 yr One of the most interesting things about Cincinnatians is their loyalty to local companies. Wal-Mart has struggled to penetrate Kroger's hometown, Cincinnati Bell has withstood the days of deregulation and beyond, and I think many people are aware of the products that P&G makes and buy accordingly. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it is what it is. I'm glad you (and others) have decided to come here for jobs and a potentially new life...but what I'm saying is that job locations vs. where you shop is a different argument altogether. I, and I think cincyimages, prefer to spend our money within the City, then HamCo, then Ohio before we bring our money over to Nky. That doesn't mean that I think everything should be located or done within one jurisdiction. I support my city and the region...there is just a hierarchy in how I go about doing so.
July 24, 200816 yr I'll admit to not fully understanding the distinction between jobs and shopping when discussing localism. But I'm a bit sheepish about totally hijacking this thread with my anti-localism arguments. I don't want to piss people off too much. So I'll make one more example, and I'll make it about Oakley just to keep it kinda on-topic. ;) Just South of the Millworks site, on Paxton & Isabella there are two mexican fast-food restaurants right next door to eachother. Taco Casa and Chipotle. Taco Casa is (I presume) a local Cincinnati place. Chipotle is an evil national chain, that was even owned by McDonalds at one point. But, Chipotle is so much better than Taco Casa in every possible way, that Chipotle is totally slammed at all hours of the day. Taco Casa is lucky to have more than a handful of customers at a time, even on lunch hour. Chipotle is completely killing Taco Casa (at least at that location) and it's not even subtle. But is any of that a bad thing? Chipotle really is better. It's cheaper, faster, cleaner, fresher, tastier, and more pleasant. Obviously, thousands of people in the neighborhood agree. Is it the death of a local tradition, or a great improvement in quality of life because a GOOD mexican fast food restaurant now services the neighborhood? So anyway... um ... how about those renderings for the Millworks! I hope they actually go through with these plans!
July 24, 200816 yr After this lets move back to the discussion... If you're interested in understanding the benefits of shopping and supporting local businesses (wherever you are) you should check out this pretty good summary: http://www.localfirstaz.com/about/why-shop-locally.html And here is an interesting piece from BuyCincy's Sean Fisher: http://www.buycincy.com/2007/08/why-shop-local.html
July 24, 200816 yr But is any of that a bad thing? Chipotle really is better. It's cheaper, faster, cleaner, fresher, tastier, and more pleasant. Obviously, thousands of people in the neighborhood agree. Is it the death of a local tradition, or a great improvement in quality of life because a GOOD mexican fast food restaurant now services the neighborhood? Chipotle has spent years modifying its logistics in order to use more locally-grown produce and locally-raised beef and pork in its restaurants. :) (I get your point, but Chipotle is probably the worst example of an "evil national corporation" when it comes to localism.) Not everybody spends their dollars locally. But if you buy from local businesses, that money is more likely to be spent in the local economy several more times before leaving. Even if you don't spend it within city limits, keeping it in the region would make it more likely to return to Cincinnati.
July 24, 200816 yr This is such a goofy site. From an urban design perspective this thing just wants to be an R&D or business park. Or they could blow up their mega-church, which is effectively strangling the Millworks parcel from the most important streets in the neighborhood. True urbanism and infill embraces and tames the real streets.You only want to play wallflower with the major roads if they are DOT-standard 6 lane car conduits, but Madison and Ridge aren't bad enough to turn your back on. So the only context this site really has to work off of is the ass of Rob Smyjunas's power center. Man he really f'ed this whole district. Every time I see this plan pop up again I hope that Rookwood Exchange somehow beats them to it and snags the tenants. That could be a glorious infill project.
July 25, 200816 yr Rookwood Exchange or perhaps the other side of the interchange. Really if they could build something where the Home Depot store was supposed to go - next to Circuit City. It would make the area feel a little more 'finished.'
July 28, 200816 yr Rookwood Exchange or perhaps the other side of the interchange. Really if they could build something where the Home Depot store was supposed to go - next to Circuit City. It would make the area feel a little more 'finished.' I am 99% sure that another LA Fitness chain has just signed on to take the old Home Depot Expo site. They are moving into the region rather quickly with Cresent Springs, Centerville, and Kenwood Towne Place locations already under construction. With that said, this area is hopeless for the type of quality development we all want. Crossroads simply bought an abandoned HQ or Builder's Square or whatever long before Centre of Cincinnati really screwed things up. Millworks is the best use of the land, considering there can only be so many "lifestyle centers" in a city before it is overused.
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