...so instead we may end up with a bigger jail downtown.  Ah, shady deals.  From the 9/30/04 Enquirer:

 

 

Bond Hill jail idea may finally die

By Kevin Aldridge

Enquirer staff writer

 

BOND HILL - Vice Mayor Alicia Reece appears to have enough City Council support to approve a land deal with Hamilton County that would put a stop to a 10-year-old plan by the county to build a juvenile jail in Bond Hill.

 

Click on link for article.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/09/30/loc_bondhill30.html

So, Broadway Commons is gonna be a jail?

Why would a jail downtown be bad? I would rather see a nicely built jail on Broadway Commons than surface lots. The one they built in St. Louis looks nice.

The key is "nicely built jail". More brutalism like the current Justice Center will not do.

 

I also worry that expanding the existing jail down there is going to send the wrong message to residents and would-be residents of OTR alike.

Whats that? F*ck up and you could be living a block away?

 

I say build it in Washington Park, then you could just walk their asses to jail.

They should build it out in Crosby Twp. or Whitewater Twp. where no one lives. Why does it need to be right in the CBD/OTR?

This is ridiculous. Of course, we all know that the county is going to propose building the jail at Broadway Commons. Since this is a bad idea (see Nick Spencer quotes below), we need a mayor that will oppose it!! Also, if the new jail is meant to replace a jail in Queensgate, an industrial area, I don't see why they can't just build another jail in Queensgate.

 

Winburn: Build new jail downtown

 

By Kevin Osborne

Post staff reporter

 

In one of the first policy proposals of his campaign, Republican mayoral candidate Charlie Winburn says the city of Cincinnati should support building a new jail at downtown's Broadway Commons site.

 

Click on link for article.

How idiotic.  Seriously, that is a horrible place for a new jail.  I understand the reasoning for putting it close to the justice center, but a large jail is the last thing that area needs, especially considering all of the good work that's gone into rehabbing Pendleton.

I know I don't normally post on here (though I do read these boards regularly), but I thought you all would want to see this-- obviously a real threat to our city's urban core:

 

[posted above article]

Yikes... then I realize Kendall has already posted on it below-- sorry!

no way,  put it in the industrial part of downtown(queensgate).

WTF??

No problem, Nick.  I merged the threads and deleted your post.

From the 8/4/05 Enquirer:

 

 

County awaits study on jail

Leaders ask: But how can we pay for more space?

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Hamilton County commissioners say they have to figure out how to pay for more cell space.

 

Commissioners Phil Heimlich, Todd Portune and Pat DeWine agreed Wednesday that jail crowding was a priority that needs to be addressed.

 

Click on link for article.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050804/NEWS01/508040342/1077/rss02

 

From the 9/6/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

County jail is under stress

By Tony Cook

Post staff reporter

 

As officials await a consultant's study of Hamilton County's jail system, one thing is clear - the shortage of jail space affects Greater Cincinnati daily.

 

The impact is being felt particularly this month, traditionally the most crowded of the year.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050906/NEWS01/509060351

 

From the 12/21/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Report: Build a larger jail

By Tony Cook

Post staff reporter

 

Hamilton County's average daily jail population will likely exceed current capacity by 2007 and already includes a growing percentage of violent offenders who require a higher level of security than current facilities provide, according to a draft report from a study of the county's correctional system. As a result, the draft report - obtained by The Post through an open records request - calls for a new facility to replace three of Hamilton County's four correctional facilities.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051221/NEWS01/512210348

 

From the 1/1/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Hamilton County expects decision soon on what to do about jail space

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Even with more than 2,200 jail beds less than 10 miles away, Lockland Police Chief D. Michael Murphy sends criminals to jails as far as 70 miles away.

 

"Hamilton County doesn't have any room," Murphy said.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060101/NEWS01/601010348/1056/rss02

 

Why would they take prisoners in Lockland to Clinton County when Butler is so far under capacity? Clinton must be alot cheaper for it to be smart to pay officers and gas to drive so far.

 

I'm not sure about the broadway commons site, but I don't think the jail should leave the city. The new Butler County jail brought 130+ jobs to a brownfield. Hamilton County would surely provide more jobs, all giving 2.?% to the city's coffers.

Take all the violent offenders and put them in front of a firing squad. :shoot:

Problem solved.

 

I still don't see the problem if it is done right, St. Louis & Clayton, Missouri have jails downtown and they are in the form of a midrise building that blends in with the skyline.

 

 

Maybe you guys are thinking that they will build one of those sprawling barb wired prisions found in the farmlands of the US but you can build a highrise prison that actually adds to the density of a city.  I just don't feel the same way that some of the rest of you feel, maybe people haven't made a convincing enough arguement to change my thoughts from a year ago.

I just don't see a reason to put a jail in or adjacent to a downtown.  There are better places for it, like an industrial area.  Or in a rural area.  It's a county jail, after all.  Why must the city of Cincinnati be the entire county's dumping ground for all of its problems?

For once I agree with monte, if its done right: soundproofing, unrevealing design, etc. Cincinnati is the seat and therefore they get the entire county's problems, but I would guess that 2/3rds or so of the jails business would come from the city, but I don't know how to actually find the data on that. An industrial area within the city might be okay, but like monte says, it could be used to add density/height to the seen city.

 

But if the design is anything like the one Butler tried in Hamilton, keep it out of CBD/OTR. When you have criminals yelling to pedestrians and churchgoers, you've got trouble. Also, the place is uglier than sin and now sits vacant, just 30 years after construction.

I understand the desire to add height or the appearance of density to a skyline, but what good does that do if it's a dead zone at street level?

you guys have probably already thought about this, but here's another thing to consider:  downtown is prime real estate, particularly as condo activity there continues to push land values up.  To build an institutional facility there has a big opportunity cost in the form of lost tax revenues for an already cash strapped city.  Plus, no matter how well designed the place is, the perception of a jail alone will be enough to negatively affect surrounding property values.  So economically speaking, I'm just not sure it makes sense.

 

I agree that the design and density can be done in a contextual way, but I just don't know if that's enough

From the 1/5/06 Enquirer:

 

 

County, city swap property

Cincinnati obtains coveted Bond Hill site

By Kimball Perry

Enquirer staff writer

 

Hamilton County and Cincinnati have finalized details of a land swap that gives the city title to a former psychiatric hospital in Bond Hill - property residents once feared would be turned into a juvenile jail.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/NEWS01/601050366/1056/rss02

 

From the 1/16/06 Cincinnati Business Courier:

 

 

Confined jail might get to grow

Site near Broadway Commons possible

Lucy May

Senior Staff Reporter

 

Hamilton County's long-awaited jail expansion could be built near the Justice Center downtown, just across from the 30-acre site known as Broadway Commons.

 

Click on link for article.

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/01/16/story1.html

 

From the 1/31/06 Enquirer:

 

 

MAP: Hamilton County facilities

 

County urged to build jail

1,817-bed Hamilton Co. facility would cost $225M

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Hamilton County needs a new 1,817-bed jail - and it's going to cost an estimated $225 million to build it, a consultant told county commissioners Monday.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060131/NEWS01/601310359/1056/rss02

 

I say stick the new jail out in Indian Hill....I mean theres plenty of land, those guys could see their hard earned tax dollars at work, and could get that feel good mentality of helping out society.  You know we are all in this together......BURBS!!!!! :whip:

Nick Spencer summed it up on the How to kill a city post..

Would you pay 250k for a condo that looks out at the fucking Justice Center?

That's exactly right! I can see the damned thing from my balcony and being the Feng Shui person I am I even put a plant in front  to block the view of it. Would you want prisoners to be looking out the windows at your wife when she is in her bikini sipping a martini on a balcony?? I don't think so!  Build it in Queensgate down by the railroad tracks somewhere.

 

 

Yeah, I don't really understand why we wouldn't put it in Queensgate...are there good arguments against that?

Yeah, I don't really understand why we wouldn't put it in Queensgate...are there good arguments against that?

 

I imagine the counties argument is that they already have land at Broadway Commons.  Queensgate is the best neighborhood for the cities problems though... (Citylink, Jail) - Queensgate is the only neighborhood that doesn't have residents in Cincinnati.

 

Nick Spencer summed it up on the How to kill a city post..

Would you pay 250k for a condo that looks out at the fucking Justice Center?

That's exactly right! I can see the damned thing from my balcony and being the Feng Shui person I am I even put a plant in front  to block the view of it. Would you want prisoners to be looking out the windows at your wife when she is in her bikini sipping a martini on a balcony?? I don't think so!  Build it in Queensgate down by the railroad tracks somewhere.

 

I am just playing devils advocate on this one, but isn't that a NIMBY mentality?  Again Queensgate is an ideal place for a jail but there is already a jail by Broadway Commons so obviously it didn't have an effect on who currently lives near it.  Also, who the hell said this jail will have windows for the prisioners to look out at the community.  Most prisions/jails I know don't have windows.  Must urban jails certainly don't have windows.  I take it the current one does, but one would like to think the new one would be sealed and built to a form that doesn't even resemble a jail.

 

Again, this one in downtown Clayton, Missouri has no windows where people can look out.  They are faux windows to give the exterior an pleasing look.

 

I still don't think the argument is about the way it looks.  It's about the building's function.  That and the argument dglenn posted a while ago about the value of the property that's so close to the city center.  Right now the numbers work to have the owner keep it as a parking lot, but what about the future we all hope for when the land becomes that much more valuable?

 

Hell, there may not be enough money anyway...but it's a good debate.  I would be all for Queensgate.  I'd also be for some of the highly industrialized areas of the Mill Creek valley, provided it wasn't in close proximity to a whole lot of homes.  The Este Ave./Center Hill area would be a decent place. 

 

Actually I would prefer for it to be built somewhere out in the county like Crosby, Whitewater, Colerain or Harrison Twps., but I guess that's all off the table because it needs to be within 10 minutes of downtown.

---

Mayor unsure if city would help fund jail

By Tony Cook

Post staff reporter

 

Mayor Mark Mallory said if Cincinnati leaders agree with a consultant's report that a new Hamilton County jail is needed, the city will be able to offer assistance in terms of zoning and finding the right property for the project.

 

But he said it was premature to comment on whether the city would offer any direct financial support for the project.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060201/NEWS01/602010353

 

I read this thread a while back, and just skimmed, not finding what I was looking for. Why is it neccessary to close Queensgate? $225 M on prisons is just too much, we have greater needs in this country. Why abandon an 800+ bed facility? Build a prison large enough to combine the smaller two and handel the growth. I still think it should stay in the city for economic reasons, maybe not BC, but somewhere it could help the density.

Turning Point in Walnut Hills

 

I've never heard of this - where is this at?

INK...here's the reasoning, according to the consultant's report:

 

The consultants found that the Queensgate facility - a converted 105-year-old warehouse designed to hold 822 minimum security inmates - does not meet modern correctional standards and lacks an adequate security system in light of the fact that maximum and medium security inmates now make up about half its population today.

 

The number of medium and maximum security inmates has jumped in the past five years, creating a greater need for a more secure and up-to-date facility, the report says.

 

RIVERVIEWER...Turning Point is the Talbert House facility on Woodburn.  And, of course, the article says it's in Walnut Hills even though it's clearly in East Walnut Hills....

Ah...so the one at Taft and Woodburn?  That's only listed at 5147 square feet...that's huge for a house, but seems pretty tiny for a jail...I assume it's pretty minimal security...

As for the Paddock Rd. site that was a possibility for a new jail which is mentioned in this post, the city closed on the 25 acres at the end of last year and plans to issue an RFP some time soon.  It will be developed for either light industrial or commercial uses...no jails, group homes, institutional uses of any kind.

 

In the last 24 hours, my cell shows 5 calls from the same number. I picked it up this afternoon and heard, "Do you accept charges for .....Shawn.......an inmate at the Hamilton County Correctional Facility Queensgate. Do you accept the charges?"

 

I hope one of you is not Shawn. Come to think of it, where has Riverviewer been?

Oh, I'd call Michael Redmond...our own local real estate mogul!  Dude would bail me out, wouldn't you Michael?

My sister used to get those kinds of calls for a while, and then it just stopped.  One time my nephew came over and asked me if I had been in jail.

Riverviewer,

 

Sorry about the 6 days I left you hanging there for a bail answer. I will have to get back to you.  As a real estate mogul, I am a very busy man :wink2:

Yay! As long as they release them back in Hamilton County, this is great news! Keep committing crimes Hamilton County, fill Butler's jail and pocketbook! Create jobs in Hamilton! From the 4/5/6 Journal-News:

 

Prisoner deal a hope to eliminate deficit, tax hike

By Candice Brooks

 

HAMILTON — Hamilton and Butler county officials are expected today to announce an agreement for the housing of Hamilton County prisoners here, officials said Tuesday night.

 

Click on link for article.

http://www.journal-news.com/hp/content/news/stories/2006/04/04/hjn040506prisoners_s.html

Yay! As long as they release them back in Hamilton County, this is great news! Keep committing crimes Hamilton County, fill Butler's jail and pocketbook!

 

Sometimes you are such a moron!

 

Now you are not catching sarcasm.

^ This usually helps break the internet divide ;)

I may have just read half way into this but.....

 

Didn't council just pass an ordinance or something to increase jail-time for Marijuana possession?

Then today Chief Stricker(spelling?) 50% of the homocide's last year were committed by people who should have still been in jail.

HMMMMM.. what's more important. Jailing someone for smoking a joint or keeping a potential murderer in jail?

If this is going to be the trend we're in trouble.

I truelly hope that the time does not come when they release a rapist to make room for a pot-head. I have not known any pot-head's that hurt anyone. But a rapist...well, I don't need to explain.

 

Cincykidbc1,  I picked up on the same thing today. 

 

I will not lie, I know a couple heads :?          ,and I don't think they are going to be in the local news anytime soon.  They prefer to just hang around there place, and I don't think that is hurting anyone but themselves, if you look at it that way.

 

GO WITH ME FOR A MINUTE ON THIS ONE.

 

IF YOU KEEP THAT FIFTY PERCENT OFF OF THE STREETS, THEN WE WOULD HAVE HAD ALOT LESS HOMICIDES THIS YEAR!!!!!!!

 

OH , AND THIS WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A RECORD SETTING YEAR!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,RIGHT.

 

O.K. it's finals week at my school this week...........    I havn't been thinking normally all week ,but this just sounds like it is too friggin simple to fix!!!!!

 

 

AM I REALLY LOOSING MY MIND???????????????????????/

 

^No, just losing control of your caps lock key and the spell checker...

 

But point taken...

A little jail history from today's Cincinnati Post.  Anyone notice that it seems like Joe Wessels is writing every single story that appears in the papers lately?:

 

 

Jail a relic of old time hard time

By Joe Wessels

Post contributor

 

There's not much left of the old Hamilton County jail -- except the courthouse attached to it.

 

For more than 65 years, the sixth and seventh floors of the Hamilton County Courthouse were the county's main jail.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/NEWS01/604060356/1010/RSS01

 

Ugh! Inspired by the deal, Butler County is now looking at reopening the downtown prison to rent to other counties. Hamilton County can't build fast enough. I was looking forward to its demolishion, not its reopening.