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Cincinnati: New Hamilton County Jail

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“There’s not one county around us that doesn’t have an overcrowding problem,’’ Commissioner Pat South said. “A regional jail could be a major cost savings.’’

 

Obviously this guy isn't all that knowledgeable of Hamilton County's problems if he doesn't know that Butler County isn't having an overcrowding problem, not in the least. Warren County politicians are known for making generalized statements however.

 

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“There’s not one county around us that doesn’t have an overcrowding problem,’’ Commissioner Pat South said. “A regional jail could be a major cost savings.’’

 

Obviously this guy isn't all that knowledgeable of Hamilton County's problems if he doesn't know that Butler County isn't having an overcrowding problem, not in the least. Warren County politicians are known for making generalized statements however.

 

 

 

Ink, I thought the same thing.

Hmm...they haven't decided that the jail will be downtown, but okay....

 

From the 8/22/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Jail tax goes on ballot

10-year sales increase paired with 3-year property cut

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Hamilton County residents will pay more in increased sales taxes than they'll save in a property tax rollback under a ballot proposal unanimously approved Monday by commissioners.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060822/NEWS01/608220383/1077

 

Hmm...they haven't decided that the jail will be downtown, but okay....

 

Has the decision not been made because they don't want it to influence the vote?

Hmm...they haven't decided that the jail will be downtown, but okay....

 

Has the decision not been made because they don't want it to influence the vote?

 

From my understanding, it hasn't been decided yet.  Sheriff Leis has accepted the fact that it won't be downtown:

 

After talks with consultants and engineers, however, Leis finally has agreed that any new jail cannot be built next to the Justice Center downtown due to space constraints.

 

“It just can’t be done. … We need to go somewhere where we have a number of acres,” he said.

 

Leis declined to publicly identify possible sites.

 

http://citybeat.wordpress.com/2006/08/04/leis-wants-permanent-not-tent-jail/

 

There was a presentation given to the OTR Chamber board (this was not public, I was passed on this info from the chamber), where Phil Heimlich said that the location would not be downtown but within 10-15 minutes from it.  Also that there were a number of neighborhoods (not identified) that were actively seeking it out for the potential jobs.

Auditor Says County Wrong on Jail Tax Figures

Cincinnati CityBeat

Posted August 25th, 2006

— Kevin Osborne

 

In their rush to pass a sales tax proposal before this week’s deadline to qualify for the November ballot, the Hamilton County Commissioners miscalculated figures and overstated the savings for property owners, according to the county auditor.

 

Auditor Dusty Rhodes sent a memo Wednesday to commissioners chastising them for releasing inaccurate data about property tax reductions. Commissioners and their administrator, Patrick Thompson, should send any calculations to the auditor’s office for vetting before they are released to avoid such errors in the future, Rhodes said.

 

Click on link for article.

http://citybeat.wordpress.com/

Lol I love grassroots propaganda. I was driving down central parkway in Clifton and there was a poster board nailed up that said "Heimlich's new jail wont keep us safe!!!!!" classic stuff.

"Heimlich's new jail wont keep us safe!!!!!"

 

A sniper rifle in the hands of a vigilante would be cheaper and probably get more drug dealers off the street.

^

Now you're talking!

Sh*t! So because Hamilton County was off building stadiums in the 90's and not focusing on running the county, downtown Hamilton gets screwed! Total bullsh*t from the Journal-News:

 

County to renovate old jail

By Candice Brooks

 

Friday, September 01, 2006

 

HAMILTON— Butler County commissioners voted 2-1 Thursday to spend $800,000 to $1 million to renovate the old Butler County jail on Court Street.

 

Click on link for article.

http://www.journal-news.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/08/31/hjn090106oldjail.html

Sh*t! So because Hamilton County was off building stadiums in the 90's and not focusing on running the county, downtown Hamilton gets screwed! Total bullsh*t from the Journal-News:

 

...off building stadiums that I believe you've used more frequently than your jail!

 

^LOL. Well, I LOVED Riverfront, so a jail and PBS would have been a better alternative in my mind, I wouldn't even say PBS if the Bengals didn't threaten to leave.

Seems to me that part of what professional sports teams give up in order to enjoy their anti-trust exemption should be the ability to hold cities hostage with threats to move.  If professional sports were a free market, we could have told the Bengals to shove off, we'll get another team, thank you very much...if they didn't have anti-trust protection, then the owners could be slammed in jail for collusion...

 

I do agree with you, by the way - first things first...I'd rather have Riverfront and a jail than GABP and no jail...just thought it was funny for someone whose last dozen trips, I'm guessing, were to watch the Reds, then to complain about us building GABP - thought it a funny juxtaposition!

Sh*t! So because Hamilton County was off building stadiums in the 90's and not focusing on running the county, downtown Hamilton gets screwed! Total bullsh*t from the Journal-News:

 

LOL...of course, Butler County doesn't have to take these prisoners.  But they sure do like the money!

Fox drives me nuts, his first argument is just stupid. I hope my boy Chuck changes his mind, him and Jolly usually align. From the 9/9/06 Journal-News:

 

Commissioners show claws on finances

By Candice Brooks Tim Paradis

 

HAMILTON — County Commission President Gregory Jolivette called on his colleagues in a letter Thursday to "sober up" from "drunken" spending.

 

Click on link for article.

http://www.journal-news.com/hp/content/oh/story/news/local/2006/09/09/hjn090906letter.html

More inmates headed to Butler jail

County expands contract to rent up to 400 beds per day

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

September 14, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - Hamilton County plans to double the number of prisoners it can send to Butler County - a move the county administrator said could stop the early release of prisoners - or not jailing them - because of jail crowding.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060914/NEWS01/609140372/1056

  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Pepper starts work on jail

Commissioners' new Dem will look for state, federal money

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

November 9, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - A day after giving the Democrats on the Hamilton County Board of Commissioners their first majority in 44 years, David Pepper started to work on his top priority - more jail space.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/NEWS01/611090402/1077/COL02

I was shocked by this one losing.  Who can vote against putting criminals in prison?  I would understand if Colerain went strong against it due to the Colerain location rumors, but elsewhere?  What suburbanite would vote against a jail?  And what Cincinnatian would be in favor of the status quo on jail space?

 

I'll be interested to see the precinct-by-precinct numbers on this one...

 

I was quite surprised myself.

Well, I voted against it -- so I guess I voted against putting criminals in prison. I think it lost because people didn't like that it was a sales tax and that no one could say where it was going. Just because there's a problem doesn't mean you have to vote on a bad solution. Jail wasn't even in the ballot language iirc, it may have lost votes b/c of that.

 

Also, I don't think everyone was convinced by the lack of jail space arguments. I'm not sure that any judge is changing sentencing because of lack of space.  A lot of the constraints can be attributed to people going in on bogus charges and can't post, so they wait for processing or trial.

From speaking with attorneys at the Legal Aid Society of Greater Cincinnati. I'm not saying it's the whole reason, just a contributing factor. And those waiting to be processed stay at the Justice Center, those convicted can go to Butler County.

 

To me, the fact that we're using space in Butler County buys us time to figure out a better plan. The whole thing smacked of election year politics to scare us into building a jail and voting for Heimlich.

So you voted against it because one contributing factor is the police arresting people on bogus charges, and those are the folks clogging up the works?

 

Are you serious?

 

I meant that it's one contributing factor for the over-crowding, not one reason I voted no. But it does introduce some doubt as to what our real capacity needs are.

 

Do you really think it's that simple -- that a no vote means a vote against putting criminals in prison? I'm sorry that you've apparently ignored much of what I said and focused on one point, but you'll see I mention several factors that all add up to a no vote in my post a few up. I'm introducing the radical idea that you can recognize a problem and not agree with the proposed solution.

 

I don't think a sales tax increase is the best way to pay for it, especially in light of the fact that there might be state and federal funds we can draw from. The processing issue is probably the least important factor I mentioned. Nobody had a proposed site, and I think that's part of the reason the ballot language read "for criminal justice purposes." The plan wasn't ready to be voted on, and I wasn't comfortable potentially giving Heimlich carte blanche to decide it after the fact. And since we've bought ourselves time by our arrangement with Butler County, there's no reason to rush it with a bad solution. I'm glad Pepper is making it a priority, and I bet we end up with a better result in the long run.

You're right, being against putting criminals in prison is a very poor characature of the opposing viewpoints.  I was more saying that in exasperation, and it was hyperbole.  But saying that cops are busting people on bogus charges - I can believe that's been known to happen.  But the thought that it's any part of what's clogging up the works?  That's the first time I've ever heard it, and it sounds utterly unrealistic - that was the main thing I was reacting to with the "are you serious" line.

 

I was shocked by this one losing.  Who can vote against putting criminals in prison?  I would understand if Colerain went strong against it due to the Colerain location rumors, but elsewhere?  What suburbanite would vote against a jail?  And what Cincinnatian would be in favor of the status quo on jail space?

 

My take is that it was a referendum on Phil Heimlich, plain and simple.  Stick it to him twice.

 

Though I'd like to think that the voters were educated enough on the matter and simply felt that this was a rushed plan meant to be the cornerstone of a political campaign, which it was.  I believe that the voters were saying that there has to be another way to fund it besides a sales tax, and that it merits more study.  And maybe they felt that a Portune-Pepper majority might be able to make that happen.

 

 

By the way, I missed a few stories before the last one posted:

Cincinnati Enquirer: PAC: Take jail issue off ballot (10/30/06)

Cincinnati Post: Group opposes tax and new jail (10/31/06)

Cincinnati Enquirer: Increase for jail construction defeated (11/8/06)

 

I didn't mean to imply that that was the main reason for overcrowding, that would be ridiculous. Just trying to introduce the idea that there may be more to the story than just a generic "get tough" stance. To clarify, I'm not just talking about bogus charges, as in falsely accused, but relatively minor charges for which people used to not get imprisoned. Just something to think about, like the work release article upthread, when we consider our real jail space needs.

 

New jail still seen as possible

But county will have to do it without additional sales tax

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Two of the three Hamilton County commissioners now say a new jail should be built without raising taxes.

 

Issue 12, a proposal to increase Hamilton County's sales tax by a quarter-cent to build a new jail, lost 57 percent to 43 percent in last week's election.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061114/NEWS01/611140397/1056/COL02

DeWine and Commissioner Todd Portune hear citizens say a new jail is needed - without raising property or sales taxes.

 

...building a smaller jail and paying for it by selling off county property and cutting government spending.

 

Now thats what I'm talking about...get creative...look for some federal funds, but damnit quit taxing your already overtaxed residents.  Hamilton County residents already pay a large amount of taxes especially compared to other comparable regions.

Portune pushes for temporary jail

Meeting today with Deters, Leis on confiscated-drugs cash

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

November 15, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - If one county commissioner has his way, a temporary jail might sprout up next to the overcrowded Hamilton County Justice Center - and Prosecutor Joe Deters and Sheriff Simon Leis Jr., two strong proponents for a new jail, will be asked to help pay for it.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061115/NEWS01/611150360/1056/COL02

  • 3 weeks later...

From the 11/18/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Closed meeting will discuss jail sites

Despite defeat of sales tax, planning continues

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Hamilton County officials plan to meet behind closed doors Monday to discuss the two final sites for a new jail.

 

That presentation comes even though officials don't know if they can pay to build a new jail, pay to run it, or afford the $6 million it's paying to house prisoners in Butler County.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061118/NEWS01/611180385/1056/COL02

 

"The people who are affluent think that building jails is the way to reduce crime, and that comes from fear and ignorance," he said. "They think crime is either driven by genetics or social or cultural depravity."

 

Personally, I think crime is driven by goddamn criminals.  I've been poor, and I've known plenty of poor folks, and none of them raped, robbed or killed people.  That's not to say economics is irrelevent - by no means - but please, don't tell me that wanting to lock up rapist sons of bitches and murdering assholes makes me an ignorant racist, because all that tells me is that you're utterly full of shit and have no grasp on reality.

 

but please, don't tell me that wanting to lock up rapist sons of bitches and murdering assholes makes me an ignorant racist, because all that tells me is that you're utterly full of shit and have no grasp on reality.

 

Why don't you tell us how you really feel...come on don't be shy :laugh:

i really don't think any murders or rapists serve their sentances in the Hamilton County Justice center; they do so in state prisons.  The most anyone serves in the justice center is 180 days (I think).

My point was (intended to be) that I can favor jailing criminals without believing crime is caused by "genetics or social or cultural depravity" - I'm sure I didn't put it clearly enough, since I was obviously kinda pissed at the guy's implication, but that was what I was trying to say...so yeah, even if the guy booked on murder or rape doesn't walk, I still don't want the guy booked on assault or breaking and entering to walk either, and it's not because I think crime is genetic or some other ignorant nonsense.  It's because I think people who beat other people up or who steal from them ought to go to frickin' prison...

 

^I couldn't agree more.

County won't defy the voters

Sheriff suggests tax hike regardless of Nov. 7 vote

BY KIMBALL PERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

December 7, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. challenged Hamilton County commissioners Wednesday to impose a sales tax increase without a public vote, but commissioners say that's not the way they'll go.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061207/NEWS01/612070360/1077/COL02

  • 2 weeks later...

No Jail group spent penny a vote to kill tax

JOE WESSELS / CINCINNATI POST

December 16, 2006

 

CINCINNATI - Among groups that plowed money into the Nov. 7 election, a political action committee that opposed a hike in Hamilton County's sales tax to fund a new jail got major bang for its bucks.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061216/NEWS01/612160359

Sheriff proposing suit over new jail

BY KIMBALL PERRY | [email protected]

 

Two weeks after suggesting Hamilton County commissioners were spineless for not unilaterally imposing a tax to fund a new jail, Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. now wants commissioners to let him hire private lawyers to sue them to finance a new jail.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061220/NEWS01/612200375/1056/COL02

  • 3 weeks later...

Leis 'receptive' to temp jail

BY KIMBALL PERRY | [email protected]

January 10, 2007

 

CINCINNATI - Hamilton County Sheriff Simon Leis Jr. now is “receptive” to allowing the city of Cincinnati to pay for a temporary jail, his spokesman said today.

 

Leis has objected to temporary jails. He wants a new, permanent facility to address overcrowding.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070110/NEWS01/301100027/1056/COL02

Now we're talking...starting to get creative in the way we think about the jail situation.  And hey someone is actually thinking about a regional solution to a regional problem....hmmm revolutionary!

 

Talks begin on regional jail idea

BY JESSICA BROWN | [email protected]

January 16, 2007

 

LEBANON – Leaders in Warren and Hamilton counties are discussing the possibility of building a regional jail.

 

Click on link for article.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070116/NEWS01/301160030

Very good ideas.  Regional cooperation will help everyone and result in lower taxes.

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