Hey all.... See below for this INCREDIBLE book I found at an antique store on Lorain Ave. It has transcriptions of Moses Cleaveland's journal as his party headed West from Conneaut to lay their claim to the "Mighty Cuyahoga"

Here it is...

Cool! Can I borrow it?? :)

Cool! Can I borrow it?? :)

 

Sure, once I'm done. Or, if you're impatient... https://www.amazon.com/Western-Reserve-SIGNED-Harlan-Hatcher/dp/B0021OOH9I

Am I impatient? Have you seen my Trump thread posts?? ;) Just bought a copy. Thanks for letting me know about it.

What an outstanding book, YABO713[/member]. Hatcher's wonderful description of Moses Cleaveland's arrival at the mouth of the Cuyahoga River, intertwined with his word-pictures of the Cleveland of today (in 1949), got me choked up a bit. How appropriate that a former surveyor would write this book, and tell stories of how astronomy and surveying were so closely linked back then. BTW Hatcher lived to be 100 years old. He died in 1998!

 

And I had never heard of James Hillhouse. I had always assumed that Alfred Kelley was solely responsible for turning the key that ignited the Western Reserve's wilderness into an economic powerhouse. He surely did that, but without Hillhouse stabilizing the conditions beforehand for those in the "Yankee Reserve," Kelley might never had considered the area worthy of an investment so large as that what was needed to build the Ohio Canal or the railroads thereafter. Hillhouse did what he did to secure the financial standing of the Connecticut School Fund which the real estate sales in the Western Reserve would support -- 20+ years after the Western Reserve became a part of Ohio. And he was a moral man who understood that throwing people into debtors prison was counterproductive for all concerned.

^I am fascinated with the book. Like the walking cliche I am, I read a few more chapters in a hammock in CVNP this weekend.

After KJP's rave review I pulled the $7 trigger yesterday on Amazon as well. Looking forward to it. Thanks for the rec.

Another surprise-- Why did Connecticut reserve this relatively small piece of Western land claims for its citizens? Well the book answers this and the answer is in an horrific incident of border-fight bloodshed in the Wyoming Valley which is today the Scranton Wilkes-Barre area. Connecticut reserved the land in the memory of hundreds who were slaughtered.

Reading Harlan Hatcher's 1949 book "The Western Reserve" motivated me to travel yesterday with the family to Hudson which has some of the most substantial, early Western Reserve structures still standing.

 

This New England-style congregational church dates to 1865 but the congregation is older than the state of Ohio. It dates back to when Northeast Ohio was called New Connecticut. Here's the origins of the church and the adjacent Western Reserve College/Academy, once called the "Yale of the West"....

 

David Hudson came west in 1799 to inspect and survey the land he and some associates purchased from the Connecticut Land Company - present day Hudson Township. He and his associates returned the following year, 1800, with their families to begin the arduous task of clearing the land, building homes - and a church! Our first services began shortly after their arrival here on June 5, 1800; and we were chartered on September 4, 1802.

 

We were part of David Hudson’s larger dream, which included both a church and a college for the training of congregational ministers. The Western Reserve College, started in 1826, is now part of Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland. The Western Reserve Academy (just across the street to the east and north from the church) now uses the college campus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice!

 

My four favorite fun facts of the Hudson area / Western Reserve College early history:

 

1) Loomis Observatory (built 1838) is the oldest observatory in the United States still in its original location.  Your photos just missed it!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loomis_Observatory

2) Being extremely pro-abolitionist, Western Reserve was the first school in Ohio and west of the Appalachian Mountains to enroll (1832) and graduate (1836) an African American student, John Sykes Fayette. https://books.google.com/books?id=M1VpMW2Dr-EC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=John+Sykes+Fayette&source=bl&ots=E_eBcZodeg&sig=5lQAcAh9CbTzIvjyXlH21C1sGm8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7nMOr9dDaAhXKqlQKHUOPCPMQ6AEINDAC#v=onepage&q=John%20Sykes%20Fayette&f=false

3) In 1854, Frederick Douglass gave the Western Reserve commencement speech  http://www.libraryweb.org/~digitized/books/Claims_of_the_Negro.pdf

4) First curveball in college baseball was thrown by Clarence Emir Allen in the 1870s at Western Reserve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Emir_Allen

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a good view of the Loomis Observatory from my car. But I could see it through the trees. I told my wife about it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't get a good view of the Loomis Observatory from my car. But I could see it through the trees. I told my wife about it.

 

Well dang, then those are great "drive by" photos.

Celebrate Arbor Day (TODAY) by reading up on Cuyahoga County's past.

 

200 years ago, the region was 94 percent forest. Today, that number is just under 20 percent.

 

https://t.co/Yi5uQGi8fK

Connecticut Western Reserve

 

The Connecticut Western Reserve was an area in the Northwest Territory owned, sold and distributed by the State of Connecticut in the years after the American Revolution.

 

Connecticut was one of several states that had land claims in the Ohio Country going back to the colonial period. Connecticut gave up most of its claims to the federal government so that the Northwest Territory could be created. However, it reserved the northeast corner of the territory for itself. This area came to be known as the Connecticut Western Reserve.

 

The Western Reserve had two parts. The western part of the region was known as the Fire Lands. The state gave plots of land in this area to people who had lost their property in the American Revolution. The Connecticut government sold the eastern portion of the reserve to the Connecticut Land Company in 1795. The $1.2 million earned through the land sale was spent on public education in the state of Connecticut.

 

The Connecticut Land Company sent General Moses Cleaveland to survey the territory and lay out townships. In federal surveys such as the Seven Ranges, townships were 36 square miles. Cleaveland created townships of 25 square miles. One of the earliest towns established in this region was named Cleveland in his honor. Many people moved into the Western Reserve because it was accessible from Lake Erie. In the early years of settlement, many people from New England came to the Western Reserve.

 

Settlers in the western part of the reserve faced struggles with American Indians over ownership of the land. The westernmost part of the Fire Lands had been granted to American Indian groups as part of the Treaty of Greeneville of 1795. As the population increased, American Indians were forced from the region.

 

See Also

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Connecticut_Western_Reserve

 

 

================

 

Yep, this topic (secession) is actually a series on Cleveland.com thanks to the stark political differences between NE Ohio and the rest of the state and the fact that Ohio keeps taking away financial assistance to local communities....

 

How would you split Ohio to create the nation's 51st state?

Updated May 16, 2017

Posted May 15, 2017

 

Making Ohio two states

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - So, you want to secede from Ohio. How could you do it?

 

Cleveland.com has drawn its own lines for the fanciful new state of Western Reserve, with the idea that a smaller state, with more liberal politicians, would better represent Northeast Ohio's interests.

 

A new state would mean a new state government, with a different view on home rule, taxation, the environment and more. It could mean more competitive congressional districts and more debate.

 

How exactly you draw the new state -- what cities, suburbs, small town and farmland it contains -- would dictate all that.

So take a minute to consider what that might look like.

 

Where would you draw the border? Should our new state include Toledo? Akron? Youngstown? All three?

 

This post is part of cleveland.com's series, "Western Reserve: the 51st State?" For more stories, click here.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2017/05/how_would_you_split_ohio_to_cr.html#incart_river_mobile_home

 

 

=====================

 

And one more map from Cleveland.com

 

 

Dreaming up Western Reserve -- the 51st state?

 

A new state: "Imagine a new Ohio. A smaller state carved out around Lake Erie, where we could keep our tax money nearby, empower cities to enact their own laws and elect a legislature closely matched between Democrats and Republicans. We could focus on solving urban problems," cleveland.com's Laura Johnston writes. "Sure, it's a daydream. But we in Cleveland feel stuck. We're a Democratic metropolis governed by Republicans who see the state very differently than we do. Fights erupt time and time again, over fracking and gun regulation and minimum wage. The state legislature overrules, takes our tax money and disperses it to rural areas."

 

Enter Western Reserve, an imaginary 51st state made up of northern Ohio counties. Over the next two weeks, cleveland.com will examine how life would change for Clevelanders if northern Ohio became its own state.

 

"To be clear, cleveland.com is not actually suggesting secession from Columbus, Cincinnati, Dayton and the mostly rural rest of the state," Johnston writes. "We're simply mulling the idea as a vehicle to show how little clout and control Northeast Ohio has over its destiny."

 

Western Reserve declared independence from the rest of Ohio, with the help of Thomas Jefferson.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/05/dreaming_up_western_reserve_--.html#incart_big-photo

 

this can NEVER happen. The rest of Ohio would be hopelessly Republican. Agree the northeast region needs more help than it is getting.

 

Plus we would have to go to war over Cedar Point if it was to be taken from the rest of Ohio ;) .

Another surprise-- Why did Connecticut reserve this relatively small piece of Western land claims for its citizens? Well the book answers this and the answer is in an horrific incident of border-fight bloodshed in the Wyoming Valley which is today the Scranton Wilkes-Barre area. Connecticut reserved the land in the memory of hundreds who were slaughtered.

 

You just reminded me of a book I read on the expansion of the western border into Indian territory. Essentially it was 300 pages of atrocities. But a lot information I never learned in school. That era of Pennsylvania must have been a lot like the Gaza Strip.

 

^^ I bought that cool "Firelands" historic map about 20 years ago in Port Clinton. 

Another surprise-- Why did Connecticut reserve this relatively small piece of Western land claims for its citizens? Well the book answers this and the answer is in an horrific incident of border-fight bloodshed in the Wyoming Valley which is today the Scranton Wilkes-Barre area. Connecticut reserved the land in the memory of hundreds who were slaughtered.

 

You just reminded me of a book I read on the expansion of the western border into Indian territory. Essentially it was 300 pages of atrocities. But a lot information I never learned in school. That era of Pennsylvania must have been a lot like the Gaza Strip.

 

^^ I bought that cool "Firelands" historic map about 20 years ago in Port Clinton. 

 

Except that slaughter in the Wyoming Valley wasn't between whites and natives, but among whites.

 

Cleveland- "No Vision, No Future".

^^this is ridiculous. there are plenty of blue cities in red states that are booming. Look no further than Texas. This is just trying to blame conservative politics for the failures of a particular blue city's liberal politicians (and policies)

Edited November 8, 20186 yr by eastvillagedon

I read that whole article and I still have no idea what the author even wants.  He says he wants more than "quotidian accomplishments" like fixing streets from municipal leaders in northeast Ohio, particularly Cleveland (as if fixing streets on the shores of Lake Erie is an easy task), but doesn't say what that's supposed to mean.  He says staunch progressives need to show up at city council meetings to "hold our leaders accountable" without saying, accountable for what?  He cites Piketty, but doesn't draw any real connection between that theory and urban planning, urban policy, etc.

 

The doom and gloom is not just vague, it doesn't appear warranted.  Cleveland is undergoing an impressive urban growth trend that seems to be fairly durable.  It isn't limited to just the downtown, either.  Many neighborhoods have seen impressive gains over the past 5-10 years.

Just now, eastvillagedon said:

^^this is ridiculous. there are plenty of blue cities in red states that are booming. Look no further than Texas. This is just trying to blame conservative politics for the failures of a particular blue city's liberal politicians (and policies)

 

That article was a BS venting session given the results of this recent statewide election. 

 

First off, Ohio is not a "Red State", our governorship and state wide positions have typically been more red than blue, BFD - that does not make us a "Red" state.

 

Moreover, it's typically blue cities in red states that are thriving right now, as you noted - Charlotte, Austin, Atlanta, Nashville et al. Cleveland Scene is a perennial rag looking to soak their own emotional projections onto everyone else. 

One thing many of those blue cities in red states have in common is shitty transit. And that is often because of lack of state support and active opposition -- looking at you Nashville -- for large scale expansion.

Ohio's Republicans seem particularly anti-urban.

Wrong thread for that.

 

 

Nonetheless, can anyone point me to the oldest standing building in the former Western Reserve? Looking to take a Saturday drive around NEO ... cough @KJPcough... 

@YABO713 Off the top of my head, I think the oldest is the Unionville Tavern, built in 1798....

http://www.savethetavern.org/

Edited November 8, 20186 yr by KJP

Western Reserve's Hale Farm has a lot of older structures.  The main house dates back to 1825, but I think it has origins back to 1810.

 

https://www.wrhs.org/plan-your-visit/hale-farm/

 

Another reason to visit -- you can go inside most of the houses and structures.

20 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Wrong thread for that.

 

 

Nonetheless, can anyone point me to the oldest standing building in the former Western Reserve? Looking to take a Saturday drive around NEO ... cough @KJPcough... 

 

 

if it's history you're looking for, you might want to visit the 206-year old Rider's Inn in Painesville. It was a stop on the Underground Railroad, as well as a resting place for Union soldiers in their travels to and from the battlefield. There's a pub and a restaurant with the dominatrix-like name of Mistress Suzanne's Dining Room. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 20186 yr by eastvillagedon

^It just made it onto my list for tomorrow! Thanks @eastvillagedon

It's the dominatrix thing that got you. Huh?

 

Just now, freefourur said:

It's the dominatrix thing that got you. Huh?

 

 

 

Maybe I was thinking of Nancy Pelosi

Just now, freefourur said:

It's the dominatrix thing that got you. Huh?

 

 

I often do kinky history walking tours. 

Just now, eastvillagedon said:

 

 

Maybe I was thinking of Nancy Pelosi

 

Lol you always seem to be... 

20 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Nonetheless, can anyone point me to the oldest standing building in the former Western Reserve? Looking to take a Saturday drive around NEO

 

If you want to see some old Western Reserve stuff, I suggest starting in Chagrin Falls and heading up Chagrin River Rd.  There are old farms and buildings all along the way, but especially around Wilson Mills and Gates Mills.

 

You could then head up through downtown Willoughby and hop on SR 2 east to 44 to Jackson St. to see Rider's Inn as @eastvillagedon recommended.

Just now, eastvillagedon said:

 

 

if it's history you're looking for, you might want to visit the 206-year old Rider's Inn in Painesville. It was a stop on the Underground Railroad, as well as a resting place for Union soldiers in their travels to and from the battlefield. There's a pub and a restaurant with the dominatrix-like name of Mistress Suzanne's Dining Room. 

 

 

 

Speaking of historical dining spaces in the Western Reserve with suggestive names and histories touching on the Underground Railroad, there's also the Spread Eagle Tavern, built in 1837, in Hanover.

Just now, jam40jeff said:

 

If you want to see some old Western Reserve stuff, I suggest starting in Chagrin Falls and heading up Chagrin River Rd.  There are old farms and buildings all along the way, but especially around Wilson Mills and Gates Mills.

 

You could then head up through downtown Willoughby and hop on SR 2 east to 44 to Jackson St. to see Rider's Inn as @eastvillagedon recommended.

 

Yes, I love the drive through the Chagrin Valley. I grew up there, so not only is it a drive through Western Reserve history, but also some of my personal history -- like the place where a Bentleyville cop stopped me in 1984 on the last day of high school, doing 70 in a 35 in my mother's Mazda RX7, and HE LET ME GO with a warning. A Bentleyville cop. My buddy and I just stared at each other with our mouths open, soon realizing we better leave before the fuzz changed his mind. ?

Edited November 9, 20186 yr by KJP

Some of that stuff in Gates Mills isn't actually authentic to the early/mid 1800's, but was actually built later, or renovated to look more "Western Reserve/New Englandy" when it started to become a wealthy enclave in the early 20th century.

On 8/18/2019 at 10:08 AM, BigDipper 80 said:

Ah yes, Connecticut, home to thriving boomtowns like Hartford and Bridgeport. 

 

@BigDipper 80 Yes, Connecticut destroyed its once-historical cities with highways and massive clearing-out projects to remove old buildings. That's the bad part. The good part is the state is starting to recognize its mistakes by investing in transit and supportive urban development. I'm still waiting for Ohio to admit its mistakes and stop subsidizing sprawl, penalizing urban investments, and acknowledge that transit investment is a function for state government, not just cities and counties

interesting--

 

 

 

I'm sure Detroit would love to go back to France and not be in Michigan either...?

38 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

I'm sure Detroit would love to go back to France and not be in Michigan either...?

 

Would that be in their political interest? When governments don't serve their citizens, citizens get upset, governments change and sometimes borders change. As they should.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Would that be in their political interest? When governments don't serve their citizens, citizens get upset, governments change and sometimes borders change. As they should.

 

Well, I'm sure France would take "better" care of Detroit than the current country it is in.

6 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

Well, I'm sure France would take "better" care of Detroit than the current country it is in.

 

Ehhh considering the Federal government was the lifeline to an otherwise massively corrupt local government, I'm not sure that's true. 

 

Nonetheless, we digress off topic - and you, *GASP*, an admin!

Maybe France could call Detroit La Réserve Occidentale.  (There, back on topic!)

 

Or they could just keep the name Detroit but start pronouncing it using the French pronunciation of the -oit ending.  (Oops, off topic again.) ? 

48 minutes ago, freefourur said:

 

 

Should we join canada, connecticut, or become our own state?

 

Rejoin Connecticut. Doesn't involve Congress. Connecticut could do it by withdrawing their quit claim following the Quieting Act of 1800 and Connecticut's subsequent release of the Western Reserve to the U.S. government. It was perhaps the largest quit-claim deed in U.S. history and done so without regard to the voting rights of those in the Western Reserve, whether it was 1 person or 1,000. They never got a say in whether they should remain a part of the state of Connecticut or to lose statehood and become a U.S. territory. If a territory can become a state only with a vote of the people, it should thus not lose statehood without their vote either. Admission to the Union Clause also forbids the creation of new states from parts of existing states without the consent of both the affected states and Congress. The primary intent of this caveat was to give Eastern states that still had western land claims (including Connecticut) a veto over whether their western counties could become states.

Edited May 24, 20205 yr by KJP

Wouldn't that apply for other cessions in the early years of the Republic? As far as I can tell, those living in the Yazoo Lands of Georgia didn't get a vote when the fallout from the land-sale scandal there led to Georgia ceding the land to the new Mississippi Territory in 1802.

AND

 

Edited June 17, 20204 yr by KJP

Connecticut isn't exactly a state that has been progressive politically, particularly historically  If the CWR aspires to be that, then it's got some work to do.

Compared to Ohio?