Welp, I just lost $10,000 this morning on my tech stocks. I'm out of the market and it's still falling.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Welp, I just lost $10,000 this morning on my tech stocks. I'm out of the market and it's still falling.

 

Depending on which index / tracker you like to use, "tech stocks" are up 5-7% since this post.

31 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Depending on which index / tracker you like to use, "tech stocks" are up 5-7% since this post.

 

Not FAANG

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Not FAANG

 

Incorrect - https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/FX-FAANG/

 

Up 5% since 10:44.  As of now, you did a good job calling the bottom of the day actually.

18 minutes ago, DarkandStormy said:

 

Incorrect - https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/FX-FAANG/

 

Up 5% since 10:44.  As of now, you did a good job calling the bottom of the day actually.

 

I always do. Every time I sell the market goes up. I'd do better just setting my money on fire.

Best to take a step back and avoid market news. This is just a sell off; tech is still up an enormous amount from Jan 1.

On 9/4/2020 at 2:54 PM, KJP said:

 

I always do. Every time I sell the market goes up. I'd do better just setting my money on fire.

OK, I clicked the laughing icon, but I don't think you're wrong, just a little early. I've been making very defensive moves since mid-August. I'm expecting a bigger correction before 2020 ends.

On 9/4/2020 at 3:01 PM, TBideon said:

Best to take a step back and avoid market news. This is just a sell off; tech is still up an enormous amount from Jan 1.

 

NASDAQ is still up ~20% YTD.

Grrrr ... I got sucked back into ATHX at some prices under $2.10.  It's a total crap shoot.

2 hours ago, Dougal said:

Grrrr ... I got sucked back into ATHX at some prices under $2.10.  It's a total crap shoot.

 

There's another Cleveland biotech firm that's worth looking at, IMHO. Abeona has its HQ in NY but most of their operations are here. They basically suspended operations from March to June at the start of the pandemic.  But they've got several gene therapy treatments in clinical trials with one of them in phase 3, almost ready for prime time. From September 2017 to September 2018, ABEO was trading in the $15-20 range, then fell to under $2 a year after that. It's been in the $2-4 range since then. Don't know if they're in a position to bounce back.

I had a conversation this past weekend with a former roommate who inherited about $100,000 worth of gold coins from his recently deceased father.  The coins were hidden haphazardly throughout the house and he found them using some sort of treasure map.  He decided to sell them now so that the proceeds could be split 50/50 with his sister.  Otherwise, since the coins themselves were a wide array of types and values, there was no way to predict which would go up or down in value in the future, meaning one half of the collection would inevitably grow greater in value than the other within five to ten years.  

 

Anyway, he made a few mistakes in his effort to liquidate the coins, in my opinion.  He was trying to figure out a way around "the system", like a For Sale By Owner, but he took on a ton of still-unresolved risk and probably ended up with less money in his pocket as compared to simply shopping the collection around to a variety of up-and-up dealers. For example, he sold a few individual coins on Ebay, and one of the buyers is now playing games with him saying that he didn't receive the coin even though it was signed for. 

 

He was also contacted by several characters who wanted him to take down his listings and do a private sale.  He actually took up one of those offers from some guy who flew down from Philadelphia and met the guy at a gold dealer's storefront in Atlanta.  The guy paid him with a cashier's check on a Saturday, meaning he could have pulled the money out of the account and the thing wouldn't clear, but luckily it did clear.  The guy then turned around and sold the coins to the actual gold dealer, meaning the "Philadelphia" dude was probably working with the gold dealer all along and probably lived right around the corner in Atlanta.  Even after the alleged Philadelphia guy sold the coins to the dealer where the sale was held (the coins are now on the dealer's website), he called my former roommate and said that several of the coins were worth less than what he bought them for and expected him to cut him a check for the difference.  As of right now my friend is ignoring these requests.  

 

Anyway, I could go on and on with this story, but the bottom line is that investing in gold coins is a mega-hassle as compared to owning stocks.  When you die the stocks are sold, the heirs get their respective checks a week later, and everybody moves on.  

 

Edited September 15, 20204 yr by jmecklenborg

There's a difference between selling coins and jewelry to the "Meltdown People" vs. the Retail Seller. Meltdown Guy sends everything off to a wholesaler who pays X per ounce for it to be melted down or is going to sell it themselves. Always already has a buyer for everything that's not costume or coins worth face. Gets to pay a standard rate for everything. But Retail Seller poor-mouths like, "Oh, how long will I have to sit on it?" "What if I can't find a buyer?" "This jewelry is out of style" and has to engage in all kinds of funny business to get rid of it.

Edited September 15, 20204 yr by GCrites80s

Abeona, recently mentioned by KJP for its expansion to accomodate manufacturing in Cleveland's Midtown, was up 30 cents to $2.26.  It got a favorable 'buy' rating this morning, suggesting a $5 target.  ABEO is in late Phase Three trials for a promising treatment.

 

https://thefly.com/news.php?symbol=ABEO

20 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Abeona, recently mentioned by KJP for its expansion to accomodate manufacturing in Cleveland's Midtown, was up 30 cents to $2.26.  It got a favorable 'buy' rating this morning, suggesting a $5 target.  ABEO is in late Phase Three trials for a promising treatment.

 

https://thefly.com/news.php?symbol=ABEO

 

I wondered why they shot up today.

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

I wondered why they shot up today.

The betting must be that the Phase 3 trial will be a success. The stock has already fallen back a dime from its morning high.

 

WKHS is back over $30 again today.   I wish I would have bought some at $12 a couple months ago--kept waiting for it to drop 

This has been making the rounds today:

 

 

 

 

 

The guy looks younger than 89, so I'm not sure how factual this story is.  There is an election coming up, after all.  

 

 

 

@Dougal I'm interested in hearing what you think is happening here.....

 

 

On 9/14/2020 at 3:47 PM, jmecklenborg said:

I had a conversation this past weekend with a former roommate who inherited about $100,000 worth of gold coins from his recently deceased father.  The coins were hidden haphazardly throughout the house and he found them using some sort of treasure map.  He decided to sell them now so that the proceeds could be split 50/50 with his sister.  Otherwise, since the coins themselves were a wide array of types and values, there was no way to predict which would go up or down in value in the future, meaning one half of the collection would inevitably grow greater in value than the other within five to ten years.  

 

Anyway, he made a few mistakes in his effort to liquidate the coins, in my opinion.  He was trying to figure out a way around "the system", like a For Sale By Owner, but he took on a ton of still-unresolved risk and probably ended up with less money in his pocket as compared to simply shopping the collection around to a variety of up-and-up dealers. For example, he sold a few individual coins on Ebay, and one of the buyers is now playing games with him saying that he didn't receive the coin even though it was signed for. 

 

He was also contacted by several characters who wanted him to take down his listings and do a private sale.  He actually took up one of those offers from some guy who flew down from Philadelphia and met the guy at a gold dealer's storefront in Atlanta.  The guy paid him with a cashier's check on a Saturday, meaning he could have pulled the money out of the account and the thing wouldn't clear, but luckily it did clear.  The guy then turned around and sold the coins to the actual gold dealer, meaning the "Philadelphia" dude was probably working with the gold dealer all along and probably lived right around the corner in Atlanta.  Even after the alleged Philadelphia guy sold the coins to the dealer where the sale was held (the coins are now on the dealer's website), he called my former roommate and said that several of the coins were worth less than what he bought them for and expected him to cut him a check for the difference.  As of right now my friend is ignoring these requests.  

 

Anyway, I could go on and on with this story, but the bottom line is that investing in gold coins is a mega-hassle as compared to owning stocks.  When you die the stocks are sold, the heirs get their respective checks a week later, and everybody moves on.  

 

Just read this story. I know a lot about high end trading cards, to the point where I have insurance on my collection. It's not uncommon for people to uncover boxes tucked away for 25 years and have 4, 5, even 6 figure dollar amounts on their hands.

 

For those people who no longer have any connection to the game or the market it is far better to go to the most reputable nearby shop and eat the rake and get 30-50% of retail value than to try to sell things piecemeal. It's not worth the time and hassle. I'd imagine gold is the same way, I'd probably just go to a dealer. Transacting with individual buyers is exhausting.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

@Dougal I'm interested in hearing what you think is happening here.....

 

 

I'm tempted to think it's some sort of massive peculation scandal perpetrated by the CEO with the knowledge of the board.  Fraudulent research reports? Floating stock knowing the research was a dead end? Trading ahead of news? If it's just some Jeffery Epstein kind of thing, the stock will bounce by the end of the day.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

Just read this story. I know a lot about high end trading cards, to the point where I have insurance on my collection. It's not uncommon for people to uncover boxes tucked away for 25 years and have 4, 5, even 6 figure dollar amounts on their hands.

 

For those people who no longer have any connection to the game or the market it is far better to go to the most reputable nearby shop and eat the rake and get 30-50% of retail value than to try to sell things piecemeal. It's not worth the time and hassle. I'd imagine gold is the same way, I'd probably just go to a dealer. Transacting with individual buyers is exhausting.

 

If you inherited a full set of 40 dual lands and Power Nine, you aren't supposed to treat it as an investment opportunity, you have it in your hands to dominate all the magical planes of the multiverse!

11 minutes ago, Dougal said:

I'm tempted to think it's some sort of massive peculation scandal perpetrated by the CEO with the knowledge of the board.  Fraudulent research reports? Floating stock knowing the research was a dead end? Trading ahead of news? If it's just some Jeffery Epstein kind of thing, the stock will bounce by the end of the day.

 

 

 

Thanks. But if the research was a dead-end, why start taking steps to expand the office/production facilities?

Just now, KJP said:

 

Thanks. But if the research was a dead-end, why start taking steps to expand the office/production facilities?

Wasn't he initially just the medical director?  Hiring a couple of people is cheap if it juices the stock, which it did. He probably got his shares at options-pricing and could have made a bunch on the recent bounce.

 

I could be totally wrong, it wouldn't be the first time; but think of Eliz. Holmes and Theranos. A lot of very smart people fell for that one.

Except the stock didn't rise much. It was holding steady at about $3 and started falling steadily in mid-August to near $2 when I disovered their building permit for the expansion (no one else has reported it and ABEO made no unsolicited announcements or even so much as a 10-K filing about it). When the consensus buy rating was issued 10 days ago, the share price briefly perked up to $2.20 before dropping back down again. Maybe that was done by company insiders after they learned the research was BS and they decided to blow out en masse? But why leave en masse? Won't that be like waving a red flag in front of the SEC??

28 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

 

If you inherited a full set of 40 dual lands and Power Nine, you aren't supposed to treat it as an investment opportunity, you have it in your hands to dominate all the magical planes of the multiverse!

I completed buying p9 and 40 duals a year or two ago. Don't plan on having kids at this point but I hope to hold on to my multiplanar dominance unless I need the cash. If I kick the can early for some reason maybe they can hold a big tournament with some good prizes.

I'm considering dumping my JPM. Even though they are one of the "safer" banking plays I am pessimistic about the financial industry right now.

7 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

I'm considering dumping my JPM. Even though they are one of the "safer" banking plays I am pessimistic about the financial industry right now.

 

I've held onto the Park (PRK) that I've had for a long time ...

 

... but it's definitely been one of my underperformers this year and I can hardly fault anyone for being a bit pessimistic about the sector.

 

Part of the reason I keep Park is that small regional banks have been takeover targets, and shareholders tend to do well in buyouts (I missed an opportunity by selling Panera a few years too early, for example).  Just in my neck of the woods, just in the last few years, FirstMerit got bought out by Huntington, Valley Savings by Westfield, and North Akron Savings by Peoples.

 

Whatever happened to that Athersys company?  Didn't they have advanced testing for a drug which was supposed to help with the affects of Covid-19?  Seems like they may be missing the boat.

 

I've decided to get into stocks- I'm a complete beginner so I have no clue what to invest in.   

9 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Whatever happened to that Athersys company?  Didn't they have advanced testing for a drug which was supposed to help with the affects of Covid-19?  Seems like they may be missing the boat.

 

I've decided to get into stocks- I'm a complete beginner so I have no clue what to invest in.   

 

See below. I wouldn't get into ATHX just yet. They're not for the faint of heart......

 

https://www.streetinsider.com/Corporate+News/Athersys+(ATHX)+Announces+FDA+Grants+RMAT+Designation+to+MultiStem+Cell+Therapy+for+the+Treatment+of+Acute+Respiratory+Distress+Syndrome/17386283.html

1 minute ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Whatever happened to that Athersys company?  Didn't they have advanced testing for a drug which was supposed to help with the affects of Covid-19?  Seems like they may be missing the boat.

 

I've decided to get into stocks- I'm a complete beginner so I have no clue what to invest in.   

 

I credit a significant portion of my growth as an investor to my membership in The Motley Fool (www.fool.com), beginning about 10 years ago.  I wish I had joined 12 years ago, because then I would have had the benefit of their insight even during the teeth of the Great Recession.

 

Their marketing e-mails are horrible but the Stock Advisor service has definitely been good for me.  It's something like $250/yr membership, so maybe not worth it if you only have $2500 (the minimum to open a Fidelity taxable brokerage account, I think) or $5000 to invest (another reason I probably chose not to back then), but as a place to get regular reminders of fundamentals of long-term buy-and-hold (LTBH) investing, as well as at least decent suggestions on stocks, it's been very solid for me (though I certainly don't invest in every recommendation they send down the pipe).

 

I do not suggest that anyone to begin their investing career in hyper-growth, hyper-risk stocks like experimental biotech.  That's practically like betting on boxcars at the craps table.

50 minutes ago, KJP said:

Except the stock didn't rise much. It was holding steady at about $3 and started falling steadily in mid-August to near $2 when I disovered their building permit for the expansion (no one else has reported it and ABEO made no unsolicited announcements or even so much as a 10-K filing about it). When the consensus buy rating was issued 10 days ago, the share price briefly perked up to $2.20 before dropping back down again. Maybe that was done by company insiders after they learned the research was BS and they decided to blow out en masse? But why leave en masse? Won't that be like waving a red flag in front of the SEC??

 

Management options are probably priced under $1.50.

 

I looked more closely into who exactly resigned.  Siffert, the CEO; Pereira, brand new (April, '20) executive chairman, Buono and Howell (two newish independent directors), and two other older directors.  NOT resigning are the chief accounting officer, the chief legal officer, and three inside directors.  This leads me to think the people who quit were involved in some scheme to benefit personally.  It's not clear why the company would now be considering its options including sale of some or all assets - maybe that's something they have to consider, although it's not clear who is left to consider it.

 

Based on who quit, I'm now thinking fraudulent research is probably not the cause of the problem. 

 

Edit: the upshot of all this: I just bought some shares.  I think the market has overreacted. Even in liquidation, it's worth more than $1.15.

3 hours ago, Gramarye said:

Part of the reason I keep Park is that small regional banks have been takeover targets, and shareholders tend to do well in buyouts (I missed an opportunity by selling Panera a few years too early, for example).  Just in my neck of the woods, just in the last few years, FirstMerit got bought out by Huntington, Valley Savings by Westfield, and North Akron Savings by Peoples.

I tried to play that game before and got burned. Ymmv.

5 hours ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

I know a lot about high end trading cards, to the point where I have insurance on my collection

 

One of my dad's friends doesn't know anything about stocks but has a)a farm in Indiana and b)a ton of baseball cards and a ton of Michael Jordan rookie cards - like dozens of them.  I didn't ask him where the cards are stored but therein lies a similar dilemma to physical gold - if you tell people you have the stuff then there's some risk that word will spread and someone will show up and try to rob you.  

 

Also, my guess is that unlike gold, the value of trading cards is pretty much only in the United States.  Plus, there is the danger that in 2050 nobody will care about baseball cards from 1950.  But I'd bet that there will still be a worldwide market for gold coins and gold bars.    

 

 

8 hours ago, Cavalier Attitude said:

Just read this story. I know a lot about high end trading cards, to the point where I have insurance on my collection. It's not uncommon for people to uncover boxes tucked away for 25 years and have 4, 5, even 6 figure dollar amounts on their hands.

 

For those people who no longer have any connection to the game or the market it is far better to go to the most reputable nearby shop and eat the rake and get 30-50% of retail value than to try to sell things piecemeal. It's not worth the time and hassle. I'd imagine gold is the same way, I'd probably just go to a dealer. Transacting with individual buyers is exhausting.

 

It is important to pick the right store, usually in a larger town/city that has a large number of people participating in events weekly. At our small town location, we don't sell cards that are over $300 since they turn into museum pieces for us. Our local player base isn't very well funded. In fact, there was one store in town that took in a huge trade of old cards for most of their Modern and Standard cards. They ended up having to quit Magic and sell the store. We got their players for a year or two until another store opened that was allowed to be open late at night got them. A whole lot of stores don't have the cash to buy Power 9 cards.

6 hours ago, Gramarye said:

 

I've held onto the Park (PRK) that I've had for a long time ...

 

... but it's definitely been one of my underperformers this year and I can hardly fault anyone for being a bit pessimistic about the sector.

 

Part of the reason I keep Park is that small regional banks have been takeover targets, and shareholders tend to do well in buyouts (I missed an opportunity by selling Panera a few years too early, for example).  Just in my neck of the woods, just in the last few years, FirstMerit got bought out by Huntington, Valley Savings by Westfield, and North Akron Savings by Peoples.

 

 

Park just bought Fairfield National in Lancaster/Fairfield County.

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

One of my dad's friends doesn't know anything about stocks but has a)a farm in Indiana and b)a ton of baseball cards and a ton of Michael Jordan rookie cards - like dozens of them.  I didn't ask him where the cards are stored but therein lies a similar dilemma to physical gold - if you tell people you have the stuff then there's some risk that word will spread and someone will show up and try to rob you.  

 

Also, my guess is that unlike gold, the value of trading cards is pretty much only in the United States.  Plus, there is the danger that in 2050 nobody will care about baseball cards from 1950.  But I'd bet that there will still be a worldwide market for gold coins and gold bars.    

 

 

 

It's also hard to tell when/if people will just give up on Magic and Pokemon. Long-term, those two types of trading cards have offered major index-fund returns, though. Also, their market is not limited to the U.S. like the sports cards.

Edited September 29, 20204 yr by GCrites80s

2 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

 Magic

 

Some guy was telling me a sob story recently about how some girl he dated got married to some dude who is now getting rich dealing Magic cards.  Like he has a real job but then operates a Magic card shop on the side.  And so the wife has to tell her friends about her husband's Magic card business and nobody believes that he's making real money dealing the things. 

9 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Some guy was telling me a sob story recently about how some girl he dated got married to some dude who is now getting rich dealing Magic cards.  Like he has a real job but then operates a Magic card shop on the side.  And so the wife has to tell her friends about her husband's Magic card business and nobody believes that he's making real money dealing the things. 

Do people still play that?

Yes. Bigger than it was in the '90s.

Magic also has a set of cards that they have promised to never reprint. So there are only relatively small limited quantities of them. These became basically speculation fodder and now there is a self-propelled "finance" movement around buying and selling these cards. All of that could theoretically change in an instant but for the near future it looks like those cards will hold or gain value. I apologize for this whole card game tangent but the amount of money being traded around (within a relatively small sphere of people) is pretty astounding.

 

The kind of people who do this kind of speculation are exactly the same kind of people who do cryptocurrency speculation. In fact many of the winners of the crypto bubble who sold out in time put their winnings into cards as a more "durable" investment. ?

Nice bump up in ABEO this morning, up 9 cents to $1.18 on over 1.1 million shares (avg. daily vol. 1.4 million). Most of the volume on the asked price.

 

It will be telling to see if the departed directors sell their shares. Does anybody know if a board resignation removes the requirement to file a sale with the SEC? I'm guessing  if it's lettered stock, the requirement might persist.

 

Worth noting the company has $1 a share in cash, so they're not going to vanish in the night. ?

ABEO up to 1.29 this morning.  They have a new chairman and announced "Abeona has retained Jefferies LLC as its financial advisor to assist with the review of strategic options focused on advancing the Company’s mission and maximizing stakeholder value."

 

Jeffries, I believe, had previously projected a $5 valuation for the stock.  It seems doubtful that will be realized anytime soon, but it looks likely the company will be sold.

ABEO got as high as $1.58 early Friday on nice volume.  Here's a chart of its performance since the mass resignation.

 

 

What's weird is that I bought ABEO at $1.24 and some more at $1.30 and yet I'm down $700+. Doesn't make sense.

14 hours ago, KJP said:

What's weird is that I bought ABEO at $1.24 and some more at $1.30 and yet I'm down $700+. Doesn't make sense.

 

Often the bid-asked spread widens after the market closes. It may be that your broker is pricing your shares at that bid.  Strictly, he's correct to do that; but it's misleading and not a prediction of Monday's opening. By my service, it closed at $1.38 and there was a final after-market trade at $1.37.

I was cancelled from the Current Events section by people who said cancel culture doesn't exist, so I can no longer post on the virus thread, so I am passing along here that my younger brother was just paid $18,000 ($1,400 x 13 weeks) in back unemployment despite working this whole time.  The feat was pulled of because he was working some sort of non-essential sales job and was able to argue that he would have made such-and-such money.  Meanwhile, he never actually sat at home after the layoff but went and got two other jobs. 

 

Anyway, there are a ton of Americans out there collecting huge unemployment benefits this year and that's why Amazon is offering $26/hr to work in their warehouses next to Cincinnati's airport and they're still struggling to get people. 

People can also make that much working for the Census and not have to work at 3AM. The last four censuses have taken place during down economic years.

Complete bloodbath among stocks for freelance and remote working platforms. CRWD, FVRR and UPWK are all getting slammed today. FVRR was down 10%, CRWD down 7% and UPWK down 3%.

 

I was heavily invested in two of them. I had gained $9,000 in the past month but lost $5,000 of it today. I jumped ship and avoided losing all of my gains. I thought about selling this morning and my wife suggested several days I should take the profits. But I was going to go long on them.

Statement on American priorities during the fall and collapse of modern civilization:

 

Google knows everything.  Its stock is up 29% in the past year.

 

Amazon sells everything.  Its stock is up 80% in the past year.

 

Boston Beer (makers of Sam Adams, Angry Orchard, Twisted Tea, Truly Hard Seltzer, and Tura hard kombucha) sells forgetting everything.  Its stock is now up 129% in the past year.

Anyone who was/is still interested in picking up WKHS, it has come down quite a bit now amid a general tech sell-off.  Of course it could go even lower, but if you think the product is good and the company has the chops to weather the short term (i.e., survive long enough for the good product to actually make good money, which unfortunately are two different things), it's down from $30.99 a little over a month ago to $15.55.  Of course, no promises on whether there might be a substantive reason it's sold off more than the broader tech sector.  In practical terms, that may mean that people with better sources than a random Internet message board might know things we don't about the way the wind is blowing inside the USPS, since the home-run hit would be Workhorse landing the USPS contract for its next-generation short-range delivery vehicle (which could be up to a $6 billion contract).  The announcement of that award has been delayed a few times and anyone who has any legitimate information on the real timing and destination of that award probably has sufficient insider information that they can't trade the stock.