If these politician have their way it may happen. However I think they maybe too far from the population centers.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/31/new-airport-sw-ohio-far-fetched-far-sighted/359052001/

North of Ravenna? Maybe Shalersville Township. The Portage County airport is located there on State Route 44. It would also be a quick access to I-76 and I-80. Plenty of acreage available.

What airline would they think would hub at either airport?  JetBlue doesn't appear to be in the market to expand enough to need/justify a Midwest Hub, and the other Low Cost Carriers don't really fall into the traditional hub and spoke models.  To me, this speaks to these politicians' non-awareness of the way airlines and route systems work.  This is a great thought, but not really a realistic possibility.

This is a terrible idea that will fortunately never happen.

Horrible idea, complete waste of time, IMO.  They want to create rail to each one from the main population centers.  How about creating some high speed rail to the ones we already have to get more corporate headquarters then spur more international routes?

Hardly worth the pixels to respond to this. This would be a royal waste of money. That is not how to do infrastructure.

Funny stuff.

 

I know there is chatter in the airline/airport industry that there may be far fewer airports in the future, meaning smaller airports would be especially threatened. Could there be a day when Toledo Express folds into Detroit, Dayton Cox into Cincy-NKY, and Akron-Canton & Youngstown into Cleveland Hopkins?

 

Equally unlikely, but I've always thought if AK Steel ever shut down their Middletown works, it would be an ideal location for a combined Daytonati airport with a new I-75 exit at Greentree/Oxford State. CVG & DAY could then transition to cargo-dedicated formats.

 

 

So that group of people literally has no understanding of how infrastructure or the airline industry works...

 

The crazy part is how much money they will spend planning for this thing that should never happen. Morons.

 

If were getting a government glitter budget I vote for expanded transit connections and improvements from our urban centers to our existing airports... but that's just crazy. 

 

Horrible idea, complete waste of time, IMO.  They want to create rail to each one from the main population centers.  How about creating some high speed rail to the ones we already have to get more corporate headquarters then spur more international routes?

 

Absolutely... forget the airports since they already exist.  Even 1/10 of the money they are proposing would revolutionize rail in the state and could fund any possible rail project for the foreseeable future.

Honestly, I'm happy some Republicans are thinking big picture ideas, but they really need to dive into this deeper to see the best way to do this.  Jake M can really chime in on the Cincy side and that's what I know best, but if they created some commuter rail / high speed light rail which somehow connects Westwood and Price Hill in Cincy's west side with a bridge over the Ohio to the Airport and have that connect with the rest of the city for quick travel over the WH Viaduct, that seems the absolute best way to go.  That would probably be $1 Billion but you wouldn't be spending the 20 Billion for a new airport. Connect that high speed rail lane with Dayton and grow that connection at CVG, then you can transition the Dayton Airport to more cargo and you got 3.1 million people or so pretty well connected to CVG

Personally, I think Jeffersonville is a bad location. It needs to be more in Wilmington and closer to Cincy/Dayton area. I don't think this is really a starter anyhow but if the idea morphs into something to get more international flights back to the area then it is a good thing

All Aboard Ohio's lobbyist told us this was coming. He said the SW Ohio airport would be connected by high-speed rail from Cincinnati, Dayton and Columbus (note, this is an airport for Columbus, too) and the NE Ohio airport connected by high-speed rail to Cleveland, Akron and Youngstown and possibly on to Pittsburgh.

 

If anyone thinks this is a 10-year project, they have no awareness of the project development process for major transportation projects. Ten years is the AVERAGE time it takes for any transportation project to clear the basic steps (sometimes this is preceded by a business case/feasbility analysis). And considering the scale of this project, it will likely be far longer. These are the basic steps of a new-construction transportation project that involves significant property acquisition/demolition/change of land use:

 

1. Alternatives analysis (including landside access), tier 1 environmental screening (for projects of this scale, that could cost about $15 million to $30 million -- go with the higher amountif the proposed landside access is included)

2. Preliminary engineering, tier 2 environmental screening (costs about 5-10 percent of anticipated project costs)

3. Final engineering (usually costs up to 30 percent of anticipated project costs)

4. Funding procurement (sometimes this takes the longest time and often starts before final engineering begins)

5. Property acquisition

6. Construction

North of Ravenna? Maybe Shalersville Township. The Portage County airport is located there on State Route 44. It would also be a quick access to I-76 and I-80. Plenty of acreage available.

 

They're talking the west end of the old Ravenna Arsenal which isn't being used by the National Guard for the Camp Ravenna Joint Military Training Center. Before the military found a new use for the arsenal, this was proposed for a major cargo airport about 30 years ago.

What's the point/need for these? Cleveland and Columbus' airports seems to be doing fine and while I've heard complaints my whole life about the CIncy airport being in NKY, it's on the uptick and keeps doing much better. Why would we need more airports to split up the already fragile industry in this area? I've flown out of Columbus when it's convenient as from CIncy the drive isn't bad at all. Same goes for Dayton and Indy if CVG wasn't a good option. Is the state really big enough to support two international airports that work in conjunction with the previous ones becoming "regional?"

 

This is just someone looking for a headline. The rail component is laughable. Republicans had their shot at establishing high speed rail and they chose to give that money to other states instead.

 

Also, worked for Kings Island/the amusement industry for years and have thoroughly been over its history. I've never come across anyone criticizing the location of the park when it was first announced. If anything, people were excited that the park would be bigger/no longer be in the flood plane like Coney was.

 

The rep in this article is just being an ass.

Honestly, I'm happy some Republicans are thinking big picture ideas, but they really need to dive into this deeper to see the best way to do this.  Jake M can really chime in on the Cincy side and that's what I know best, but if they created some commuter rail / high speed light rail which somehow connects Westwood and Price Hill in Cincy's west side with a bridge over the Ohio to the Airport and have that connect with the rest of the city for quick travel over the WH Viaduct, that seems the absolute best way to go.  That would probably be $1 Billion but you wouldn't be spending the 20 Billion for a new airport. Connect that high speed rail lane with Dayton and grow that connection at CVG, then you can transition the Dayton Airport to more cargo and you got 3.1 million people or so pretty well connected to CVG

 

I don't have any sentiments to share that differ from what is obvious to everyone who has already posted.

 

I do recall a new airport proposal similar to this in the late 90s.  I don't know if it was exactly where this proposal is or not, but I recall it being between King's Island and Wilmington. 

 

 

I'm excited about the train component of this... couldn't we just build the train part and forget about the airport part -OR- enhance the airports that already exist.

 

Is there a mechanism that allows Ohio and Kentucky to work together on making CVG better?

I understand one element of this proposal -- that a single megaregion airport serving Dayton, Columbus and Cincinnati would represent a market of 5 million people, as well as a single megaregion airport serving Cleveland, Akron, Canton and Youngstown (and probably draw from Pittsburgh as well) would serve a market of at least 4 million people. Through consolidation, it could be a greater draw for international flights than if these individual metro areas continued to host their own, smaller airports. And that could ultimately be a stronger economic development tool.

 

Add in the rail access to this, and it gives Republicans in Ohio to finally support rail. It's a Trojan horse because the rail ridership to/from the airports is likely to be small. But I would presume that the trains would travel through the airports. So a Columbus-Cincinnati rail trip becomes possible, as would a Cleveland-Akron-Canton or Cleveland-Youngstown (Pittsburgh?) rail trip. It's basically the same argument the business community makes in pushing for an urban rail transit line linking their airport to downtown, even though fewer than 10 percent of people flying in or out of the airport uses the train to begin/end their trip. But a substantial amount of airport workers (many of which are minimum wage jobs) use the train to get to their airport jobs. So the rail line is sold on one benefit, but sustained by a different benefit. Still, the business community gets its marketing asset, including being able to attract large conventions, etc. And I suspect that's what this is, to get the airlines to think differently about Ohio by agglomerating the markets through airport consolidations and pushing the megaregion angle.

^Agree with this. With a better train system in Ohio that would also make it a better market especially if all the major airports in Ohio get linked to downtowns and those downtowns get linked to other downtowns.  If France can do it, why not Ohio?

 

If you cut out Youngstown (sorry) It could be a decent rail line. Probably should have clicked "short url"

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/cvg/Hampton+Inn+%26+Suites-Cincinnati+Downtown,+617+Vine+St+A,+Cincinnati,+OH+45202/Dayton,+OH/Dayton+International+Airport,+Terminal+Drive,+Dayton,+OH/Columbus,+Ohio/Port+Columbus+International+Airport,+International+Gateway,+Columbus,+OH/Akron-Canton+Airport,+Lauby+Road,+North+Canton,+OH/Akron,+OH/Cleveland+Hopkins+International+Airport,+Riverside+Dr,+Cleveland,+OH/Cleveland,+OH/@40.0841198,-84.206098,8z/data=!4m62!4m61!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841c8f2f631659f:0xab9a445aa5754dde!2m2!1d-84.6630165!2d39.0532746!1m5!1m1!1s0x8841b150cf9f47bd:0x7979d75bfb8c6e33!2m2!1d-84.5136649!2d39.1028295!1m5!1m1!1s0x884080d5aedd1403:0xa640e392f20e4ce4!2m2!1d-84.1916069!2d39.7589478!1m5!1m1!1s0x883f7ee75cfca731:0xb168e1d2f0d0f35!2m2!1d-84.2217719!2d39.9025242!1m5!1m1!1s0x883889c1b990de71:0xe43266f8cfb1b533!2m2!1d-82.9987942!2d39.9611755!1m5!1m1!1s0x883862113489cee3:0xa07d02c8c11064c1!2m2!1d-82.8871767!2d39.9999399!1m5!1m1!1s0x8836d47bac9c5887:0x4b5fdee88369aec5!2m2!1d-81.4431126!2d40.9154307!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830d7958b2efab7:0x29c96c95fd266d04!2m2!1d-81.5190053!2d41.0814447!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830eced544890cd:0xbbaf031e9364e392!2m2!1d-81.8479925!2d41.4124339!1m5!1m1!1s0x8830ef2ee3686b2d:0xed04cb55f7621842!2m2!1d-81.6943605!2d41.49932!3e2

Don't worry. This idea won't enter the project development process as long as Kentucky continues to send Mitch McConnell to Washington DC. This idea will be DOA the minute he hears about it.

Isn't the Ravenna Arsenal one of only a couple locations being considered for a new missle defense shield/base? If so, a new airport couldn't be built there.

Regarding the NE Ohio airport idea (although these factors probably apply to SE Ohio as well):

1. There would be benefits to a regional airport (more international flights, a hub), but they are not worth the cost.  Instead of paying $5-10 bil for a new airport and infrastructure to get to it, you could probably spend $500 mil on Hopkins to make some major improvements.  And as stated above, if you're trying to improve rail, there are much cheaper and more direct ways to spend just a fraction of this money.

2. A regional airport would be a huge magnet for sprawl in Geauga and Portage counties.  Putting a regional airport in Ravenna would suck development out of the main cities of Cleveland, Youngstown, and Akron.  This is especially true in a region with low to no growth.  It would not inspire much new development, just move around existing employers to less dense areas.  This is not the type of development that is cost efficient, nor should we be promoting it.

Isn't the Ravenna Arsenal one of only a couple locations being considered for a new missle defense shield/base? If so, a new airport couldn't be built there.

 

The Pentagon looked at it starting in 2014 but that was supposed to be a two year study. I haven't heard anything in about a year or so.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/06/an_international_airport_in_ra.html

 

 

It looks like High speed rail would be a part of it.

Isn't the Ravenna Arsenal one of only a couple locations being considered for a new missle defense shield/base? If so, a new airport couldn't be built there.

 

Yes, but the Ravenna Arsenal measures 33 square miles. In other words, it's the size of the city of Youngstown.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/06/an_international_airport_in_ra.html

 

 

It looks like High speed rail would be a part of it.

 

"He envisions travelers checking their bags and going through security at a light rail station and riding comfortably to the airport. In later phases, the light rail lines could be expanded to the area surrounding cities and include direct routes between major cities."

 

Yeah, what?

As a frequent business traveler, it's bad enough when I've got an early flight out of Hopkins, there's no f'in way I'm going to an airport in Portage county.

Can we just move this thread to the Fantasy Project board, since it is clearly just that, a fantasy?

It's just kind of incredible that Ohio's leadership blew it so profoundly back in the 50s and 60s when they didn't build a combined Cincinnati and Dayton airport in Butler or Warren County. 

 

The Blue Ash Airport didn't happen because Ohio lawmakers refused to relax the supermajority they required for bond issues in the postwar decades.  So the City of Cincinnati wasn't able to buy enough land in Hamilton County even when a majority of voters approved its purchase.  The damn state should have taken over at that point and gotten the damn thing done - if not in Blue Ash, then roughly where Tri-County Mall or the I-75 Union Center interchange is now. THEN, they allowed Dayton's airport to be established on the north side of that city.  If it had instead been built on the south side, it could have attracted many more passengers from Cincinnati.

 

Compare our situation to Dallas -- it would have been like Dallas having its own airport on the east side of the city (and across state lines!), then Fort Worth having its own airport west of its downtown. 

 

 

Wiremobile

 

Boat Shoes On A Plane. 

From a Dayton resident who authored the book "Saving America's Cities"......

 

Why Should We Want New Airports?

  By:  David H. McDonald

June 1, 2017

 

Airlines are retailers.  Never heard of them referred to that way?  Airlines

+ Sell a service

+ Advertise on TV, in newspapers and on the radio

+ They give special deals and discounts

+ They have loyalty programs (frequent flyer miles)

+ They compete for customers.  They have a web based business, they have salesmen and women and they have customer service reps

 

As retailers, they want to be located where the major population hubs are.

 

The U.S. Department of Transportation says there are twenty-seven major airport hubs in the United States.  All of them are projected to grow 70% over the next fifteen years.  Why such fast growth projections?  Airlines are consolidating (this is code for them relocating to larger metropolitan areas).  Their consolidation is working and they are expected to keep it up.  The department of transportation will not even rate any of the other airports because they are not sure how many of them will still be in business in fifteen years.  NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THESE MAJOR TRANSPORTATION HUBS IS IN THE STATE OF OHIO AND NEVER HAS BEEN.  (Including Northern Kentucky airport)

 

NCR leaves the Dayton Region for many reasons.  One reason they stated was lack of a major airport to service their international salesmen.  Chiquita Brands left Cincinnati and listed lack of a major airport as a reason.  In 2014 Toyota left Erlanger, KY and moved to the Dallas area to be close to a major airport hub.  For awhile, Proctor & Gamble  was whispering that they might leave Cincinnati because there were not enough local flights to major markets.  That seems to have calmed down – for now.

 

The Cincinnati airport is imploding.  It has been for years and has lost two major corridors.  Cleveland has lost one corridor.  Dayton is barely above break even.  Columbus may be the best of the lot, but it is nothing to write home about.  Cincinnati has a recent history of unwanted downsizing and the Cincinnati Trade Area is one million people larger than Dayton.  Do  you really think Dayton’s airport will ever really take off?

 

You consolidate an airport in Northeast Ohio (o also capture some of Pittsburgh’s business) and you will have an airport with a population of roughly 4.4 million.  That’s huge!  You put an airport between Dayton, Cincinnati and Columbus and the Trade Area Population will be roughly 5.8 million people.  The 9th largest airport in the U.S. and technically larger than Atlanta!

 

Why the Jeffersonville area versus Wilmington?  Wilmington is too far away from Columbus and with no four-lane highways.  I-71 at Highway 35 is equal distance from Cincinnati and Columbus , and you have a four lane road from Dayton to that intersection.  Besides, modern airports have specific layouts required and with at least three runways.  You are going to start over wherever you go.

 

What about the old airports?  The last major airport to relocate was Denver.  The old airport has since become a successful area of light to medium manufacturing.  Old airports have flat land with good infrastructure.  There have been approximately 22 Air Force bases closed over the past four decades.  Some become regional cargo hubs and some witch to manufacturing.

 

Here is the bottom line.  If you want our state to grow and bring in major corporations (Like the ones we have lost over the past five decades) then we need to be competitive.  Without major airport hubs, we will never truly be competitive.

 

###

I guess I understand the logic...try to convert 3 large hubs (6.5m+ passengers annually at Hopkins, CMH, and CVG) plus a few smaller airports (Dayton, Akron, Youngstown) into two mega-hubs and perhaps get some draw in from other areas.  Toledo - sorry, head to Detroit?

 

The issue is that this would be a massive undertaking, costing billions upon billions.  The light rail is a nice feature, I guess, but passenger rail would be more effective if it connected the 3C's where a bulk of the economic activity is happening in the state.  Not only that, but all the existing airports have spent a lot of money on upgrades, expansions, etc. over the years.  I think the amount to build everything up will far outweigh the benefits.

So basically, these folks want two Mirabels.  Yikes.

As usual, politicians continue to propose and favor pie-in-the-sky fantasy proposals instead of implementing transportation solutions that we know already work. "Moving" an existing commercial airport is something that I don't think any American city has successfully done except for Denver. Best solution is high speed rail linking the state's major cities and their airports. If anyone in the state of Ohio could get on a high speed train and fly out of CVG, Columbus, or Cleveland, those three airports would all probably attract more flights.

Regarding the NE Ohio airport idea (although these factors probably apply to SE Ohio as well):

1. There would be benefits to a regional airport (more international flights, a hub), but they are not worth the cost.  Instead of paying $5-10 bil for a new airport and infrastructure to get to it, you could probably spend $500 mil on Hopkins to make some major improvements.  And as stated above, if you're trying to improve rail, there are much cheaper and more direct ways to spend just a fraction of this money.

2. A regional airport would be a huge magnet for sprawl in Geauga and Portage counties.  Putting a regional airport in Ravenna would suck development out of the main cities of Cleveland, Youngstown, and Akron.  This is especially true in a region with low to no growth.  It would not inspire much new development, just move around existing employers to less dense areas.  This is not the type of development that is cost efficient, nor should we be promoting it.

 

I'm sure that #2 is intended as a feature, not a flaw, in their design.  Our legislature is hostile towards center cities, as they tend to be Democrat-leaning.  Anything that will suck jobs away from the center cities and redistribute them towards rural areas is wonderful as far as the Statehouse is concerned.

2 green-field airports of a size to support large airline hubs with rail connections to cities would cost $50 billion. Neither one is going to happen.  Future airports will probably require *less* land, not more.

 

I'm amazed by the attention this hip-shot proposal has received.

The goal is to attract direct international flights to Ohio.

 

If the market is there Airlines will do more of it, but that does not seem to be the case. Americans visit Dominican Republic as much as they do UK and more so than Paris/France. With JFK/Newark/Dulles to the N and E and Miami and Atlanta to the S those are going to be the connector to International flights. Dumb reason to build a new airport(s). Since Delta moved the Hub to Detroit slowly but surely it is getting better. BTW interesting stat, #1 most profitable airline globally, by operating margin is Allegiant. I like CVG a lot. Recent 2017 awards,

 

CVG has an extremely talented and hard-working team, including our airline and business partners, who are dedicated to providing an unforgettably positive experience for our passengers,” said Candace McGraw, chief executive officer, CVG. “We’re honored to receive these recognitions among the world’s best airports.”

 

All awards received by CVG include:

http://www.nkytribune.com/2017/03/cvg-gets-top-awards-including-best-regional-airport-in-north-america-at-world-airport-awards/

 

· No. 1 for Best World Airport Serving 5 – 10 Million Passengers Per Year

· No. 1 for Best Regional Airport in North America

· No. 26 for World’s Top 100 Airports (highest ranking U.S. Airport)

· No. 2 for Best Airport (Overall) in North America

· No. 2 for World’s Best Regional Airport

· No. 5 for Best Airport Staff in North America

CVG is in Ky not Ohio. Ohio has no control what happens there. But will have if one is located in Ohio

On 6/2/2017 at 5:07 PM, jmecklenborg said:

It's just kind of incredible that Ohio's leadership blew it so profoundly back in the 50s and 60s when they didn't build a combined Cincinnati and Dayton airport in Butler or Warren County. 

 

The Blue Ash Airport didn't happen because Ohio lawmakers refused to relax the supermajority they required for bond issues in the postwar decades.  So the City of Cincinnati wasn't able to buy enough land in Hamilton County even when a majority of voters approved its purchase.  The damn state should have taken over at that point and gotten the damn thing done - if not in Blue Ash, then roughly where Tri-County Mall or the I-75 Union Center interchange is now. THEN, they allowed Dayton's airport to be established on the north side of that city.  If it had instead been built on the south side, it could have attracted many more passengers from Cincinnati.

 

Compare our situation to Dallas -- it would have been like Dallas having its own airport on the east side of the city (and across state lines!), then Fort Worth having its own airport west of its downtown. 

 

 

Cleveland also had its chance back in the 70s with the Lake Erie International Jetport proposal. It too died on the vine.

23 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Cleveland also had its chance back in the 70s with the Lake Erie International Jetport proposal. It too died on the vine.

 

The State of Ohio needs political visionaries who can sell these visions to other politicians and the public.  All of these projects proposed 50 years ago could have made a tremendous impact on the state's economic development.

38 minutes ago, Boxtruffles said:

 

 

Does this really need an explanation on why this would've been a HORRIBLE idea!?

Yes, the intersecting runways would never be allowed today

22 hours ago, wpcc88 said:

 

Does this really need an explanation on why this would've been a HORRIBLE idea!?

Runway configuration aside, so here you are 50 years later, complaining about landlocked airports, limited air service and reduced economic development compared to peer cities; cities whose leaders had the vision and foresight to build airports in relatively unpopulated areas while they could.

Edited November 14, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

49 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Runway configuration aside, so here you are 50 years later, complaining about landlocked airports, limited air service and reduced economic development compared to peer cities; cities whose leaders had the vision and foresight to build airports in relatively unpopulated areas while they could.

Had they gone ahead with this, the completion date would have roughly coincided with airline deregulation and the birth of FedEx and like freight lines.  The Lake Erie Jetport could have been a game changer...and throw in a transportation center.  The Feds were actually very keen on this concept

The lake airport would have helped DT Cleveland remain the region's premier business center, like how no major suburban nodes have come to challenge DT Boston & Copley Square because of Logan's position directly across the harbor.  

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Runway configuration aside, so here you are 50 years later, complaining about landlocked airports, limited air service and reduced economic development compared to peer cities; cities whose leaders had the vision and foresight to build airports in relatively unpopulated areas while they could.

 

Check yourself; I’m not complaining about any of the above. Also Cleveland could’ve done the same in numerous areas. As someone that’s worked in the industry while living in NEO, the above plan was a horrible idea mainly because of weather.

This whole thread is pie in the sky, but....

 

Building some kind of new combined Cin-Day hub airport would be pretty awesome tbh. And there's a ton of incentive for OH politicians to do it... take tax revenue away from KY while growing jobs in OH.

 

It's the same petty cross-state competition that always happens, but with CVG essentially getting Amazon's air hub it would not be a death knell to it.

And with all the distribution centers being built by DAY, I could see it staying open in a smaller capacity to handle freight and maybe a couple passenger flights, similar maybe to places like Lincoln, NB.

 

 

15 minutes ago, wpcc88 said:

 

Check yourself; I’m not complaining about any of the above. Also Cleveland could’ve done the same in numerous areas. As someone that’s worked in the industry while living in NEO, the above plan was a horrible idea mainly because of weather.

No you need to check yourself