They built "future retail opportunities" into the Gateway garage on Huron should retail space be needed in the future. Makes everyone feel good now but it will never be turned to retail.

^ agree on the retail!!  I also read that the Euclid entrance will be for residents of tower and other entrance will be for everyone else.  They want to keep them separate. 

^ Still not a good idea. They can still have 2 separate entrances without using Euclid at all. They could have an entrance on E. 17th and another entrance on Brownell Ct. IMO, I don't think we should be supporting anything that promotes more vehicular traffic on Euclid.

Wow, they're not messing around.

 

PLAYHOUSE SQUARE

 

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Project Information

 

Downtown/Flats Case #  DF 2017-041

Address: Euclid Avenue and East 17th Street

Company: Solomon Cordwell Buenz

Architect: Solomon Cordwell Buenz

Description:

 

New residential and parking structure

Notes:

 

Several preliminary meetings were held.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=2507&CASE=DF%202017-041

^ Here's hoping the foundation is open to some constructive criticism on the current design.

I was concerned at first because the building contrasts so much with the surroundings. But then I realized that you see that contrast in all "big" cities. I too hope that garage access is moved to a side street, and that retail is a part of the mix. The rendering looks promising that they will be embracing the sidewalk in some way.

 

Well, there is a 22-story building across the street, a 16-story building next door and a new 11-story residential building a block away. But this will definitely fill out the skyline more....

 

2013:

cleveland from lake erie-large by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

2023?

cleveland from lake erie 2-labeled by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

Cleve York?

Currently listening to "Burn on" by Randy Newman whilst walking Euclid Ave in the midst of change of construction. All the feels

nothing to see here

Posted on the previous page.

its great to see this long, long, long rumored project is finally a go.

 

319 apts in the building? so i think we can safely assume around 5-600 people living there, yes? and thus, 5-600 more people living downtown -- and that is the best news of all.

 

The project is going before Design Review for conceptual approval on Thursday http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/06162017/DRC_2017_6_15.pdf

Design review got pushed back one week....

 

Graphics! Renderings! Pretty pictures! A few more are at:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/06232017/index.php

 

DOWNTOWN/FLATS DESIGN REVIEW

DF2017-041 – Playhouse Square Residential Tower New Construction: Seeking Conceptual Approval

Project Location: Euclid Avenue & East 17th Street

Project Representatives: Joe Fox, Solomon Cordwell Buenz

Brad Soderwall, Hines

Art Falco, Playhouse Square

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^ I like the tower more after seeing those renderings. There is more dynamism and movement in the facede than I had noticed before. The small outcroppings to provide different angles for interior views looking out really helps to break up what I thought were going to be flat glass walls.

The garage also looks much better in these renderings.  I do wish the retail component would be part of this from the get go... but well see what happens

Weird that none of the models or renderings have incorporated The Edge

After seeing those renderings, the Tower is spectacular....and it seems that there are some balconies worked in.  The garage is growing on me....but still hope they push to include the retail from the start.  Build this so i can move in!!

I think the East-facing elevation facing the street is a disappointment.  The South side not so much, since other things may eventually happen on adjoining lots

 

The East-facing side of the tower deserves at least something; a minimal cant, slice, sculpt, or some kind of faceted treatment that hints at the more sculptural elements of the West-facing elevation.  It's like a mullet with all the party on the West, and strictly business on the East.

 

No need to go full-on. but something to break up the tired Internationalist file cabinet look that it currently presents will be great.

This is my only gripe other than the bland facade and the hokey frame surrounding the garage portion on Euclid. 

I love the "portal" it creates with the Keith building on Euclid, especially with the PHS arch. I really don't like the garage, especially with out any signage. I think the advertising helps create a busy feel that fits in well with the theaters. Without it, it really is just like you're looking at Walnut Ave. The tower itself is spectacular.

I love the "portal" it creates with the Keith building on Euclid, especially with the PHS arch. I really don't like the garage, especially with out any signage. I think the advertising helps create a busy feel that fits in well with the theaters. Without it, it really is just like you're looking at Walnut Ave. The tower itself is spectacular.

 

Perfect word choice. In all honesty, for kids searching to go to college at a "city campus", looking west down Euclid from Cleveland State will certainly provide the "in the city" feel. One of my biggest grievances with Downtown is that we don't have enough "portal"-like perspectives. We get it a big on 9th in the stip from PNC to Ameritrust as well as on Superior from the 5/3 Building to 1717, but we could certainly use more of it! Hopefully the addition of the Beacon provides it down Euclid as well.

this garage is irksome.  There shouldn't be a Euclid avenue garage entrance in the middle of an entertainment district and there should be retail.  They're building this like the oswald garage on superior and should be building it like the garage at 515 euclid. 

 

Wasn't there just some initiative pushed by the city to force parking structures to have groundfloor retail?

^Yeah, especially given the ostensible mission of PHS, the lack of retail is tough to forgive. Looks like adding retail would cost 18 revenue-generating parking spaces and the expense of building out the storefronts. Easy for me to say without looking at their pro forma, but they really need to find a way to add that space now, even with a weak retail market.

^^I think the argument should be framed to planning commission as a safety issue- that's going to be a busy sidewalk (we hope), and having cars going in and out will be dangerous to pedestrians.

Any spies at design review yesterday?  Interested in the comments of the "experts"

Playhouse Square's 34-story apartment tower wins initial design approval

 

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2017/06/playhouse_squares_34-story_apa.html#incart_river_home

I'm happy that everything is moving along briskly, and certainly, there are some legitimate complaints that they appear to be addressing (the bays to "maybe" be turned into retail in the future), but I have to agree with some others that I think the entrance/exit for the parking garage onto Euclid is a mistake that should be rectified. Anywho, pretty sweet otherwise.

This is such a great project......can the planning commission do anything about the garage?  I understand separate entrance for residence, but cant that be put on the back side in the alley?  And it HAS to have storefronts

This is such a great project......can the planning commission do anything about the garage?  I understand separate entrance for residence, but cant that be put on the back side in the alley?  And it HAS to have storefronts

 

Looks like CPC did ask PHS to study the ground-level uses. It appears the project is coming back before Design Review this week, although the draft agenda doesn't reflect that....

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/brd/detailDR.php?ID=2507&CASE=DF%202017-041

 

Date: June 15, 2017

Committee: Staff

Action Type: Conceptual Approval

Conditions:

-Study the ground level of the building plan (streetscape plan).

 

-Study the color of the buidling.

 

-East 17th Street facade/elevation details

 

-Study illumination of building and potential signage

 

-Have renderings which show the true window system being proposed.

^*braces for bureaucratic induced delays*

Another harsh commentary on the design of the PHS Tower and even more damning about awarding design contracts to out-of-town firms...

 

Personal View: Playhouse Square proposal is another disappointment from out-of-town architect

July 09, 2017

By WILLIAM T. EBERHARD

 

The damaging trend of awarding important commissions to out-of-town architects has left Northeast Ohio with a mixed landscape of mediocre buildings and drained billions of dollars from our local economy. The Playhouse Square Foundation's announcement of a proposed apartment tower and garage is yet another such project with a design that completely fails to relate to its context.

 

The proposed design is a tall glass box with no scale or genuine articulation designed by the Chicago firm of SCB. Chicago Tribune critic Blair Kamin characterizes SCB as a "workhorse" firm, which Plain Dealer art/ architecture critic Steven Litt observes is "a less than ringing endorsement." The project's design defects include:

 

Scale: The proposed 34-story building towers over the distinguished 20-story Keith Building at East 17th and Euclid Avenue. The new building could achieve its density with a more complimentary, lower mass that stretches farther west, which would, in fact, deliver more units with lake views — a benchmark of apartment value and desirability.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20170709/NEWS/170709864/personal-view-playhouse-square-proposal-is-another-disappointment

In cincinnati, it seemed as though only non-local firms were proposing the bigger, more interesting projects (especially from Indy and Louisville). I know Cleveland has some good local work on projects like 515 Euclid and with some of the smaller town home projects, but have they overall been as successful with proposals for getting financing/etc in line for larger projects as the out-of-town firms? Genuinely curious - as much as I try to follow all the Cleveland developments I can never keep track of who is building what!

These get old... There are plenty of great buildings locwlly that have been designed by Cleveland design firms. Nothing wrong with a little contrast in the theatre district.

I thought the proposed tower looked really cool until i read this,,,,,,although I agree on the garage.  Still hoping that gets changed and they put storefronts on the ground level

I thought the proposed tower looked really cool until i read this,,,,,,although I agree on the garage.  Still hoping that gets changed and they put storefronts on the ground level

 

I agree with many of the points the author raises.  I do, however, think the piece would have more credibility if it wasn't couched in terms of "you should have hired a local architect."  There are obviously some great architecture firms in town, but that doesn't mean everything those firms have done has been great.  And of course, the screed loses a lot of its punch when you consider that some Cleveland firms are retained to do work outside of Cleveland.  Does that mean those cites are not design focused? 

 

That said, I do hope the design review board takes note of his concerns, some of which are valid IMO, especially the Euclid Avenue garage frontage, height of the tower, and facade material. 

In cincinnati, it seemed as though only non-local firms were proposing the bigger, more interesting projects (especially from Indy and Louisville). I know Cleveland has some good local work on projects like 515 Euclid and with some of the smaller town home projects, but have they overall been as successful with proposals for getting financing/etc in line for larger projects as the out-of-town firms? Genuinely curious - as much as I try to follow all the Cleveland developments I can never keep track of who is building what!

 

What Louisville firm has built anything in Cincinnati recently? The Banks is an Atlanta firm (Carter Dawson), 4th and Race is Flaherty and Collins (Indy), Skyhouse is...somewhere in the south. 8th and Sycamore and 7th and Broadway were locals.

I 100% agree that the design is boring. However, I'm willing to live with a boring (not outright ugly) tower, as long as they ADD RETAIL AND MOVE THE GARAGE ENTRANCE TO BROWNELL COURT.

I 100% agree that the design is boring. However, I'm willing to live with a boring (not outright ugly) tower, as long as they ADD RETAIL AND MOVE THE GARAGE ENTRANCE TO BROWNELL COURT.

 

That garage entrance won't fly with the theater-going suburban crowd. 

 

What I'd like to see is the ground floor set up for either or--meaning it can be parking to start, but have another entrance in the design so if they ever decide to convert the ground floor it can be turnkey.   

I agree with the author on quite a few points, especially the placement and functions of the parking garage.

 

My question is what would their firm propose? Unless I'm missing something, the most high profile *built* project in their portfolio is the rework of the Galleria's East Ninth/St. Clair section into Dollar Bank's regional headquarters. The most envelope pushing design I saw on their site was redesigning the top floors of the Tower at Erieview into condos, and even then nothing made me say "wow, waaay better and more creative than SCB".  :wtf:

 

http://www.eberhardarchitects.com/

These get old... There are plenty of great buildings locwlly that have been designed by Cleveland design firms. Nothing wrong with a little contrast in the theatre district.

 

I 100% agree that the design is boring. However, I'm willing to live with a boring (not outright ugly) tower, as long as they ADD RETAIL AND MOVE THE GARAGE ENTRANCE TO BROWNELL COURT.

 

That garage entrance won't fly with the theater-going suburban crowd. 

 

What I'd like to see is the ground floor set up for either or--meaning it can be parking to start, but have another entrance in the design so if they ever decide to convert the ground floor it can be turnkey. 

 

I think the influence of the "theater-going suburban crowd" is way overstated. But regardless - that's irrelevant here. The garage entrance for the theater-goers is on the E. 17th side, and I have no issue with that. I just want the residential garage entrance to be moved to Brownell Court, and I do not buy the excuse that residents will refuse to move into this building just because their garage access is in the back. I mean, have you seen some of the awkward parking garage accesses for many of the existing high-end residences downtown? The Pinnacle, E. 4th residential, etc. I also don't think Euclid is even a particularly convenient spot for the garage entrance (it's not always an easy street to drive on with all the transit and pedestrians to contend with.

 

I remain unconvinced that there's any good reason to not move the residential garage entrance to the back court. I'm also unconvinced that they can't justify retail currently. Right now, there are no retail vacancies in the immediate area - plus consider all the new residents at this tower (and at the Edge as well) who would make use of ground-floor retail at this location.

^to that point... most of the 60+ group that come

To see plays do so as a part of a larger group. Parking on Brownell wouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion, so long as there is parking

I don't believe I have read anything on the project where the owner or architect actually explains the "reasoning" for the residential entrance on Euclid (could somebody direct me if there is something out there as I would like to understand  their thinking).  As noted the theater parking garage entrance is on East 17.  I think the suggestion that the Euclid entrance is more convenient  is just board speculation and chatter.  I don't know how you can suggest it is actually more convenient since it is a right turn only both in and out.

It is also dangerous taking a car onto a busy sidewalk.  I would focus on that argument as "safety first" is always a defensible reason for making design changes, while "pedestrian friendliness" is iffy (unfortunately).

BIBIBOPGrill is coming to Uptown. A fast casual restaurant like this is a natural for the ground floor of the Playhouse Square Tower Parking Garage. Having the option of a fast meal available before show is a must for a theater district. https://t.co/ndocrTRk9y

When are they scheduled to come back to design review?  I'd love to know if they have made any changes to the original garage plan!!

^This week.

 

Design Review:

 

Schematic Design

Approval 1.

Project:  DF2017

-

041: Playhouse Square

Residential Tower

Project Address:

Euclid Avenue & East 17th Street 

 

Project Representative:

Devon Patterson, Solomon Cordwell Buenz; Brad Soderwall, Hines;

Art Falco, Playhouse Square 

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/08182017/DRC-2017_8_17.pdf

New images posted here:

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2017/08182017/index.php

Hmmmmmm......I'm not sure i like the addition of the white panels.  And still no retail on ground level.

Hmmmmmm......I'm not sure i like the addition of the white panels.  And still no retail on ground level.

 

I'm quite certain I do not like the addition of the white panels. To me that got way uglier way fast. I'll still take it over a parking lot though.

Well I still have the same qualms over this project, mostly regarding the garage, I like this version much better. I think the white adds good definition to the building, helping it pop instead of just blend into the sky.

The new design looks awful! With all the Arts Cleveland has to offer, it doesn't make ANY sense to me why they never translate to the buildings!! Don't bother building it with the white panels, keep the parking lot.