1 building campus style? What the hell is this apple?

that information above is mostly incorrect.  The city has public RFP's out now on their website that clearly define what they are building - it will be a campus with Admin, separate buildings for vehicle maintenance, fueling, storage, gun range.  The budget will be much more than $40 million also, probably double.  They were over $50 million when they were looking to take the old Plain Dealer location on Superior and that was an existing building with light renovations.  This new Opp Corr location will be full site development/earthwork/paving/utilities plus buildings, technology, furniture etc

On 1/22/2020 at 1:06 PM, tastybunns said:

1 building campus style? What the hell is this apple?

 

Not sure what you mean. Are you saying this because it's one building on 10 acres?

 

On 1/22/2020 at 3:54 PM, gottaplan said:

that information above is mostly incorrect.  The city has public RFP's out now on their website that clearly define what they are building - it will be a campus with Admin, separate buildings for vehicle maintenance, fueling, storage, gun range.  The budget will be much more than $40 million also, probably double.  They were over $50 million when they were looking to take the old Plain Dealer location on Superior and that was an existing building with light renovations.  This new Opp Corr location will be full site development/earthwork/paving/utilities plus buildings, technology, furniture etc

 

The $40 million could just be the building & site work not including furnishings and equipment.

Opportunity Corridor it is

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/01/cleveland-city-council-approves-plan-to-build-new-police-headquarters-on-the-opportunity-corridor.html

25 minutes ago, kevincle said:

Opportunity Corridor it is

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/01/cleveland-city-council-approves-plan-to-build-new-police-headquarters-on-the-opportunity-corridor.html

 

Claims an expected cost of $60 million

57 minutes ago, infrafreak said:

 

Claims an expected cost of $60 million

says who.  They haven't even hired an architect yet, they have no site plan, no concept, nothing to even do a budget

21 hours ago, gottaplan said:

says who.  They haven't even hired an architect yet, they have no site plan, no concept, nothing to even do a budget

 

Right - it was interesting to see a seemingly new figure thrown out without any source behind it or any insight as to where they arrived at the number

I wonder if this will be put on hold due to the recent economic downturn?

6 hours ago, skiwest said:

I wonder if this will be put on hold due to the recent economic downturn?

It would surprise me a great deal.  I believe the City is paying the County around $9 million a year in rent.  That’s a bill they don’t want to foot long term.

Cross-posted in the SHW HQ thread

 

 

i poked around on the k2m projects website. 

 

https://www.k2mdesign.com/projects/

 

see above for yourself, but in summary lets leave it at their interior designs are leaps better than their exteriors.

 

 

 

 

and i see here they put lipstick on a pig in lorain lol!

 

On 1/27/2020 at 9:58 PM, gottaplan said:

says who.  They haven't even hired an architect yet, they have no site plan, no concept, nothing to even do a budget

UPDATE:

 

The $65 million approved Monday will be added to $55 million the city already has toward moving the police department from the downtown Justice Center complex, Dumas said.

 

In addition to the headquarters building, there also will be other buildings on site for vehicles and storage.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2021/03/cleveland-council-oks-borrowing-140m-including-money-for-sherwin-williams-downtown-home-and-new-police-headquarters.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

so here we are about 3 years after the City walked away from the turnkey deal to put them in the old Plain Dealer site at 1801 Superior.  That was roughly a $50 million deal and they would have been in by now.  They are still probably 3 years away and paying the County something like $9 million a year in rent at the Justice Center....  it's really sad the local media isn't reporting more on this debacle

Classic Cleveland Corruption

11 hours ago, gottaplan said:

so here we are about 3 years after the City walked away from the turnkey deal to put them in the old Plain Dealer site at 1801 Superior.  That was roughly a $50 million deal and they would have been in by now.  They are still probably 3 years away and paying the County something like $9 million a year in rent at the Justice Center....  it's really sad the local media isn't reporting more on this debacle

Local media in general is a shell of its former self.

 

Anyway, the PD site would be the perfect headquarters and it doesnt surprise me that they screwed the pooch here.

1 hour ago, ogibbigo said:

Classic Cleveland Corruption

Without going too far back in the forum, I believe (and please knock this theory down) that tenants weren't willing to move out in the timeframe the city needed? I thought it was larger than Frank Jackson just being Frank Jackson.

1 hour ago, ogibbigo said:

Classic Cleveland Corruption

 

I'm pretty sure it was simple incompetence. I got that impression right off that bet with this whole CPD HQ effort. City Hall's first preference was to relocate the CPD HQ to 55 Public Square. But they apparently forgot they had to go through a public bidding process first. So when the CPD brass gave their input to the RFP for the new HQ, it had all kinds of security features and access restrictions as well as space needs that showed the HQ couldn't go in 55 Public Square.

 

They were all set to go to the old Plain Dealer building but I was told that Homeland Security stepped in at the last minute and said that site wouldn't work out either because the building would be shared with non-police offices and thus could not secured.

 

So that's when the hunt for the new-build CPD HQ began and landed in the Opportunity Corridor.

 

BTW, I'm also hearing that the new jail will also land nearby. I know that doesn't sound like a good fit with "Opportunity" but the steering committee seems to be trying to get ahead of potential criticism by pushing out jail comps in other cities that look like office buildings.

55 minutes ago, KJP said:

They were all set to go to the old Plain Dealer building but I was told that Homeland Security stepped in at the last minute and said that site wouldn't work out either because the building would be shared with non-police offices and thus could not secured.

 

there was only 1, maybe 2 tenants left in the building that were holding out, trying to leverage a nice deal to relocate.  One of them was the YMCA as I recall...

2 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

there was only 1, maybe 2 tenants left in the building that were holding out, trying to leverage a nice deal to relocate.  One of them was the YMCA as I recall...

It seems that they could've bought out the remaining leases for less than new construction on Opp. Corridor. 

Maybe. But they didn't and Homeland Security put the kibosh on it. So we'll never know.

9 minutes ago, KJP said:

Maybe. But they didn't and Homeland Security put the kibosh on it. So we'll never know.

well that's not what I heard and Homeland Security isn't carrying the cost, City of Cleveland is, but you're right, we'll never know.

17 minutes ago, KJP said:

Maybe. But they didn't and Homeland Security put the kibosh on it. So we'll never know.

 

Are you talking about federal Dept. of Homeland Security?  Why do they have a say in the matter?

^I was about to ask the same question.

"Consulting experts"

7 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

Are you talking about federal Dept. of Homeland Security?  Why do they have a say in the matter?

If I were to guess, I would think the DOJ consent decree was a factor.  For example, the DOJ mandated the city update much of their software and applications used by law enforcement.  It wouldn’t surprise me if the city needed DOJ approval for their new HQ. 
 

Also, in a city the size of Cleveland, I would imagine there is a good deal of cooperation amongst local, state and federal agencies and sensitive information is shared among their investigations (Terrorist watch lists, traffickers in fentanyl, etc.).

33 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said:

If I were to guess, I would think the DOJ consent decree was a factor.  For example, the DOJ mandated the city update much of their software and applications used by law enforcement.  It wouldn’t surprise me if the city needed DOJ approval for their new HQ. 
 

Also, in a city the size of Cleveland, I would imagine there is a good deal of cooperation amongst local, state and federal agencies and sensitive information is shared among their investigations (Terrorist watch lists, traffickers in fentanyl, etc.).

I think you're right - and the FBI already has a location on the near east side of downtown cleveland...   back to my original point though, how did the city get so close to signing a deal at that 1801 Superior site, if it literally was never an option per the Feds?  Why bother?  It should've been crossed off the list immediately.  But it wasn't.  They went to detailed programming & design & RFP and final negotiations on this site.  And here it is 3years later and they are not much farther along

49 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

I think you're right - and the FBI already has a location on the near east side of downtown cleveland...   back to my original point though, how did the city get so close to signing a deal at that 1801 Superior site, if it literally was never an option per the Feds?  Why bother?  It should've been crossed off the list immediately.  But it wasn't.  They went to detailed programming & design & RFP and final negotiations on this site.  And here it is 3years later and they are not much farther along

Probably ineptitude from someone who works for the city.  Due diligence is likely Cleveland’s responsibility even if final approval from the DOJ is needed.

 

Did anyone here attend?  What was discussed?

Some info on meeting yesterday:

 

https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/06/23/cleveland-police-seek-input-new-headquarters/

"The more than $1 million facilities..."

 

LOL. Yes, just a bit more. It's more like $120 million. 

Here are some images from the 19 News reporting of the proposed headquarter's design

 

https://www.cleveland19.com/2021/06/23/cleveland-police-seek-input-new-headquarters/

Wow!  Beachwood's new PD HQ looks great!  Which office park is it going in, again?

Is this along opportunity corridor? And if so isn't the city supposed to be using form-based zoning there.

That reminds me of a suburban high school setting in a late 80s/early 90s movie

Awful first pass.   It’s a box with an unusual appendage porte-cochère (or something?) up front.  It’s just a dorky sexyish adornment that can be played up with weird camera/artist angles to disguise the laziness of the actual overall package.

 

I predict that all upcoming media shots and drawings will play up this small and unusual element in just such a way, yet nothing about it will disguise it for being the actual cheesy blue Nabisco cracker box that it is.  - CPD, Please Show us some actual elevation drawings and prove me wrong.  

Edited June 24, 20213 yr by ExPatClevGuy
spelling

lol wow.

 

it looks like a 2010 remod of a 1950s public admin building

Edited June 24, 20213 yr by Whipjacka

I don’t mind the design, the setback, any of that. The awning though, that’s kinda weird and awkwardly built

You do want it to be setback from the street, so that there is room for the demonstrations outside.

They really should look at the third district police station for inspiration. I like how it's built to the street.

All new law enforcement buildings tend to be set back from the street for security reasons.

Interesting enough I just went past third district station on my way to bmv (side note the licensing system is down state wide, so call ahead if you plan on going today) there is a smallish landscaping "buffer" in front on that one. So it's not exactly built to the street, moreso than this hq proposal though. Anyways even this small landscaping strip is in absolute disrepair. Dirt, weeds, uncut grass against building. Enough of these landscaping buffers and not just police stations, I'm saying everywhere across Cleveland. It's useless and a maintenance nightmares. Time to go back to basics of building right up to the row. Solid street "walls" that have interest and permeability (at least the sense of it) at the human level. This is especially true going forward along opportunity corridor where we are supposed to be enacting form-based code. If you want open space that goes in the interior of the parcel, behind the buildings. 

Edited June 24, 20213 yr by viscomi

It's obvious the set back is in order to have room for bollards and concrete barriers, not grass.

 

the building would have never been any closer to the street with the only alternate being that the grass areas be solid concrete too

 

 

22 minutes ago, viscomi said:

Interesting enough I just went past third district station on my way to bmv (side note the licensing system is down state wide, so call ahead if you plan on going today) there is a smallish landscaping "buffer" in front on that one. So it's not exactly built to the street, moreso than this hq proposal though. Anyways even this small landscaping strip is in absolute disrepair. Dirt, weeds, uncut grass against building. Enough of these landscaping buffers and not just police stations, I'm saying everywhere across Cleveland. It's useless and a maintenance nightmares. Time to go back to basics of building right up to the row. Solid street "walls" that have interest and permeability (at least the sense of it) at the human level. This is especially true going forward along opportunity corridor where we are supposed to be enacting form-based code. If you want open space that goes in the interior of the parcel, behind the buildings. 

 

On 6/22/2021 at 11:57 PM, KJP said:

 

The city really needs to hire a college age intern to design these flyers. I am so so tired of looking at clip art 😪

Not even built, and it's already aged poorly.

On 6/23/2021 at 9:23 PM, HGRHS said:

That reminds me of a suburban high school setting in a late 80s/early 90s movie

 

I could see a big group of cops all running out the front door to a cheesy soundtrack song, jumping up and freezing mid-air! 

While I do agree that this design and layout has plenty of room for improvement, please also keep in mind that this is a public building paid for with taxpayer 💰, and there is an obligation to deliver a sensible product that is function over form as well as security over appearance.

 

I do appreciate all the trees in the renders, but yea, this design is not cohesive at all. 

On 6/24/2021 at 11:42 AM, MrR said:

It's obvious the set back is in order to have room for bollards and concrete barriers, not grass.

 

the building would have never been any closer to the street with the only alternate being that the grass areas be solid concrete too

 

Obvious, based on where they put the bollards but I wonder why they put them that far back in the first place, pushing the actual structure even further. To be clear though, I don't find the 3rd district station is that bad, I was only using it as an example for what to possibly expect at the proposed police HQ and its massively landscaped front lawn. 

5 minutes ago, viscomi said:

 

Obvious, based on where they put the bollards but I wonder why they put them that far back in the first place, pushing the actual structure even further. To be clear though, I don't find the 3rd district station is that bad, I was only using it as an example for what to possibly expect at the proposed police HQ and its massively landscaped front lawn. 

The problem with the 3rd district station is the city shows no interest or does not have the capability to maintain landscaping incorporated into its public buildings.  Given this reality, new public building  should be designed with as little landscaping as possible.