12 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

for pete’s sake do no harm to the windows!  😮

 

i always thought it would be best to see one of the city’s best old buildings get rehabbed for some techy business or residential, but this outcome is very clever, thoughtful and even more long term sound.

 

who wouldn’t want to save money, save a beautiful, historic building and keep cpd centrally located and happy? best of all it will keep the beautiful artcraft building fully and stablely occupied and in use as it was meant to be for a long, long time.

 

big congrats to mayor bibb here — wow.

I have seen some people complain that CPD isn't an appropriate use and that the building should continue as an artist space. But I don't think that is stable over the long term.  Besides, this is how urban development goes. Artists move into a place, then development follows. Artists then find a another low cost place. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Love this decision- and I’ve always been a fan of this building!  Keeping the windows is an absolute must! And this should do a lot for this stretch of Superior- which I’ve also always loved.   

As a side note, I think this building was one of the proposed demos that ODOT wanted for the eventual widening of the freeway… ODOT can go kick rocks anyways.

I actually had some wishful thoughts if sometime in the future there might be some DHS funding to cap this section of the innerbelt to separate it from the CPD station.   

27 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I have seen some people complain that CPD isn't an appropriate use and that the building should continue as an artist space. But I don't think that is stable over the long term.  Besides, this is how urban development goes. Artists move into a place, then development follows. Artists then find a another low cost place. 

 

 

 

There's definitely plenty of space in the area to move to. I think it'd be pretty cool to see a swap with the old cop shop on Payne. Of course it's not as huge but it'd be a creative new use of the Payne bldg. probably not 'revenue generating' enough though.

17 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Police HQ to the ArtCraft Building
By Ken Prendergast / November 29, 2022

 

After a competitive request-for-proposals (RFP) process the city has selected the historic ArtCraft Building, located at 2530 Superior Avenue, as the top pick for the new Cleveland Division of Police (CDP) headquarters. The city will begin negotiations for the site with the property owner’s team led by TurnDev Development and expects to have legislation ready for city council in January 2023.

 

READ MORE

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/29/police-hq-to-the-artcraft-building/

 

 

I've significantly updated this article, including adding the date for which ArtCraft's tenants must vacate the building.

Remember when a certain, now banned (3x), poster complained about the Bibb administration for starting the search over again?

 

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

54 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I have seen some people complain that CPD isn't an appropriate use and that the building should continue as an artist space. But I don't think that is stable over the long term.  Besides, this is how urban development goes. Artists move into a place, then development follows. Artists then find a another low cost place. 

 

 

 

yeah while it might not be thee best preferred use of a structure like this you sure can’t get more stability than rehousing a major dept of city operations.

 

and you can’t deny its a money saving and very creative win-win solution all the way around.

 

hey maybe it will help inspire cops to be a little more artsy and creative in their work.  😅

I like how this project dovetails with the expansion plans at CSU.  I gotta believe having Police HQ that close to campus will make the proposed dorms and other campus enhancements feel safer, and breathe more life into the area.

18 hours ago, ogibbigo said:

I would have loved to see an infill/extension building/garage off of 2001 Payne. That buildings to perfect for a Police HQ to not be one

I have to assume that was considered, but rejected due to the cost.

can we jump ahead to the new worry?

 

that they don’t ef up the rehab of the building.

 

 

 

too soon? 😮😂🦃

Seems like almost unanimous approval for the new Police HQ - and I can see why. 
I love the location, immediately accessible to downtown and literally next to the campus.  
 

My wish is that our men and women in blue end up in a retrofitted facility that is state of the art- where they have the opportunity to do their vital work in the most positive environment possible. 
 

Congrats Cleveland on a great decision! 

People here seem very invested in keeping the windows, and fair enough. My question is, how likely is it that CPD will decide bullet resistant glass is a necessary component for the renovation? 

 

Also, I'm assuming central heating and cooling will be a part of any renovation? Is that included in "all new building systems"? @KJP I'm assuming so, just want to confirm. Great article by the way. 

^ aww here we go on the rehab lol —because if you are going to ef up a beautiful historic building, why even bother choosing this site? its all about the windows here and then its all in the art of the reno. they can either carefully refit what they have or can do another bulletproof layer behind the cosmetic exterior glass. double paneling would probably be wise anyway. wont be cheap, but still cheaper than building new. plus doesnt it need a new roof along with hvac, wiring and im sure much more?

I suppose the manual elevator and elevator operator might be retrofitted. 

 

As long as they don't use glass block windows, I am fine with bulletproof glass.

 

Isn't this going to be more of an admin type building anyway. I mean this won't be a police station filled with patrol officers. Perhaps I am wrong. 

29 minutes ago, Ethan said:

People here seem very invested in keeping the windows, and fair enough. My question is, how likely is it that CPD will decide bullet resistant glass is a necessary component for the renovation? 

 

Also, I'm assuming central heating and cooling will be a part of any renovation? Is that included in "all new building systems"? @KJP I'm assuming so, just want to confirm. Great article by the way. 

 

Yes, it's going to need a full rehab. A real estate source yesterday was surprised it was going to be ArtCraft because of the big windows.

 

Funny story -- this wasn't supposed to be announced until today. But I contacted a high-ranking City Hall source yesterday to see if that was correct and, to narrow down the site options, I said that I'd heard 1801 Superior was going to be the site, requiring the eviction of Step Forward. I asked is that accurate? The source responded "That's not accurate!" So I went to other sources and said it's definitely not the former Plain Dealer building. We all agreed it had to be ArtCraft. It met all the requirements. So I went back to the City Hall source and said "I hear it's ArtCraft. Can you comment?" That was at 2:30 pm. The city's press release came out an hour later.

@KJP scooping all the big media in Cleveland once again. Imagine if Advance hadn't hollowed out the Plain Dealer.  

Edited November 30, 20222 yr by freefourur

Thanks @freefourur. If I didn't have to leave by 3 pm to get in the car line to pick up my son from school, I would've scooped City Hall!

Here is report from WEWS.  Sounds like it's not a done deal.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWiYmk2dUeg

 

 

Edited November 30, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd

I wouldn’t worry about the windows, guys. Do a Google street view of Cross Country’s new HQ. Look at what used to be its windows, then look at what they’ve done now. It’s definitely gonna need new, insulated windows. 

It’s interesting that Images In Bloom, the business mentioned in @KJParticle that was given until April 1 to move out, is blaming their forced relocation on Cross Country Mortgage (although they said, incorrectly I think, Countrywide Mortgage) and not the police HQ. I took a screenshot of the announcement they posted on their website.

^ I did a Google search and found this article from Crain's:

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/artcraft-building-sold-group-led-crosscountry-mortgage-ceo-ron-leonhardt-jr

Working in parcels for a handful of years, I learned very quickly that if you don't own the land around your bucolic subdivision there's a good chance that the corn field you look out on is going to be a subdivision sooner than later. Likewise, if you don't own the building you can't expect it to stay the same forever. It sucks and I hope these studios find a new space, but the woe is me tone is a lot.

 

Wishful but I hope there's some relocation assistance provided.

9 hours ago, freefourur said:

I have seen some people complain that CPD isn't an appropriate use and that the building should continue as an artist space. But I don't think that is stable over the long term.  Besides, this is how urban development goes. Artists move into a place, then development follows. Artists then find a another low cost place. 

 

Yup. A younger incarnation of me has admittedly been roller skating in that building lol. It was really really cool artist space...I hope they're not forced to go too far. These hidden artist spots are a large part of what make Cleveland unique. 

I do find it interesting that this neighborhood was renamed to the Superior ARTS District but ever since then artist are being bounced from each building slowly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Artists typically sow the seeds for their own eviction. They move into a cheap building or neighborhood, fix it up a little bit for their needs, and make it less of an investment risk for developers to build housing and commercial uses that are too expensive for the artists to remain. So they move on to the next area and start the process all over again. For examples, see Ohio City, Tremont, Warehouse District, etc. The area around the West 78th Studios is the next to go up.

19 hours ago, GISguy said:

Working in parcels for a handful of years, I learned very quickly that if you don't own the land around your bucolic subdivision there's a good chance that the corn field you look out on is going to be a subdivision sooner than later. Likewise, if you don't own the building you can't expect it to stay the same forever. It sucks and I hope these studios find a new space, but the woe is me tone is a lot.

 

Wishful but I hope there's some relocation assistance provided.

Yep.  Ask members of the old CLE Athletic Club how important it was to own their building.  They didn’t…and now that building is apartments and not the CAC.  

I walked past yesterday. The traffic at that intersection is already insane. I can just imagine police being dispatched at rush hour from the new HQ and getting stuck on the ramps to the innerbelt like everyone else. I don't see the level of freeway access that is apparently assumed and provided the decisive motive. Yes, it's "right there" but it's rarely clear and it's almost TOO right there, which would raise a security concern in my mind.

 

Folks trying to navigate to the station are going to encounter a real cluster. I see one lot behind the structure where the proposed garage will be built. It ain't that big.  Maybe they're planning on acquiring another adjacent lot? There's nowhere near the room they have at the former 3rd District. Now add all the police car sidewalk parking as they already do downtown. This spot is cramped as hell.

 

I also fail to see how a complete renovation of this building is more affordable, considering the additional purchase price of the property,  than it is to renovate 2001 Payne and add a modern, perfectly designed, purpose-built addition.

 

Make it make sense. I definitely think they chose the right neighborhood, just the wrong building.

 

For the love of god, Ken please dig into what they plan to do with 2001 Payne. If they demolish that iconic structure I'm leaving this damn city. There's nothing wrong with that beauty. So tired of the stupid lazy way they treat our architectural heritage, what little is left.

Edited December 2, 20222 yr by MVH

probably exit south on 25 to payne. may need to ad a stop light there

57 minutes ago, MVH said:

I walked past yesterday. The traffic at that intersection is already insane. I can just imagine police being dispatched at rush hour from the new HQ and getting stuck on the ramps to the innerbelt like everyone else. I don't see the level of freeway access that is apparently assumed and provided the decisive motive. Yes, it's "right there" but it's rarely clear and it's almost TOO right there, which would raise a security concern in my mind.

I don't understand this.   Even if they sited the new HQ at 21st and Payne and there was a call necessitating use of the innerbelt ramps, they'd had to drive the 4 blocks to get to the same situation.   

 

But it doesn't matter anyway as this is the Police HEADQUARTERS and zone cars will not be dispatched from here.   

 

I agree with your thinking on the old station though.  I'd like to see a mid-rise building constructed next to the historic structure.  

Anybody remember how many parking spaces they claimed to need? The current Artcraft owner also owns the space outlined in red. If they built a garage just in the blue shaded part, that's about an acre of land. The same as the space Sherwin Williams is using to build their new garage. I could see them buying that last square of land to make the garage less cramped, but it wouldn't be necessary.

 

4 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I don't understand this.   Even if they sited the new HQ at 21st and Payne and there was a call necessitating use of the innerbelt ramps, they'd had to drive the 4 blocks to get to the same situation.   

 

But it doesn't matter anyway as this is the Police HEADQUARTERS and zone cars will not be dispatched from here.   

 

I agree with your thinking on the old station though.  I'd like to see a mid-rise building constructed next to the historic structure.  

This is a moot point. We have overheads for a reason. 

7 hours ago, MVH said:

I walked past yesterday. The traffic at that intersection is already insane. I can just imagine police being dispatched at rush hour from the new HQ and getting stuck on the ramps to the innerbelt like everyone else. I don't see the level of freeway access that is apparently assumed and provided the decisive motive. Yes, it's "right there" but it's rarely clear and it's almost TOO right there, which would raise a security concern in my mind.

 

Folks trying to navigate to the station are going to encounter a real cluster. I see one lot behind the structure where the proposed garage will be built. It ain't that big.  Maybe they're planning on acquiring another adjacent lot? There's nowhere near the room they have at the former 3rd District. Now add all the police car sidewalk parking as they already do downtown. This spot is cramped as hell.

 

I also fail to see how a complete renovation of this building is more affordable, considering the additional purchase price of the property,  than it is to renovate 2001 Payne and add a modern, perfectly designed, purpose-built addition.

 

Make it make sense. I definitely think they chose the right neighborhood, just the wrong building.

 

For the love of god, Ken please dig into what they plan to do with 2001 Payne. If they demolish that iconic structure I'm leaving this damn city. There's nothing wrong with that beauty. So tired of the stupid lazy way they treat our architectural heritage, what little is left.

2001 Payne is literally falling apart on the inside. I wouldn't go as far as saying there's nothing wrong with it. It's definitely salvageable but it hasn't seen any type of work done to it for decades atleast. 

9 hours ago, MVH said:

For the love of god, Ken please dig into what they plan to do with 2001 Payne.  

 

The city will sell it after the new HQ opens.  They could probably sell it before then because it's not exactly heavily used. I know of at least one developer who's foaming at the mouth to buy it.

 

The city wants parking for 450 cars, both for employees and for visitors as well as a garage for vehicle and equipment storage...

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/11/02/cleveland-police-hq-site-search-begins-anew/

1 hour ago, KJP said:

The city will sell it after the new HQ opens.  They could probably sell it before then because it's not exactly heavily used. I know of at least one developer who's foaming at the mouth to buy it.

Would CSU have any interest in acquiring it?

6 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

This is a moot point. We have overheads for a reason. 

Sorry @KFM44107I don't understand.   Maybe i'm reading this wrong?  Can you elaborate? 

3 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Sorry @KFM44107I don't understand.   Maybe i'm reading this wrong?  Can you elaborate? 

 

Just now, GISguy said:

 

Ahhhh...my head went to a police helicopter "overhead."    But I know from being around Burke the CPD bird rarely flies.... 

34 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Would CSU have any interest in acquiring it?

I mean, even the color scheme is a match.

CSU must have designs on the Norton Furniture Building, I mean if they can't get credit there they can't get credit anywhere.

Edited December 7, 20222 yr by MVH

Interesting that Jon Pinney is using the "dangerous condition" of Art Craft to kick out the artist ASAP, but somehow the condition is better than 2001 Payne?

 

2001 Payne is a work of art.

 

I hope the developer drooling over it isn't Kassouf

Presentation to CPC on the new headquarters. It has detail on the other responses to their RFP and estimated cost for each. The quality of the pics in the powerpoint isn't very good, but here are a couple. They are planning a total rehab, including new windows.

 

https://assets.adobe.com/public/4beee28a-3117-49a1-4710-40db288917f9/Mandatory Referrals/2023-01-19 CDP HQ Presentation.pptx

 

 

 

 

 

I assume the cost of moving to the old PD building would have been much less.

my only question for the admin - why didn't you right click and ignore the spell check recommendation???? lol

9 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I assume the cost of moving to the old PD building would have been much less.

 

The other proposals are in the PowerPoint. Just skip ahead to the last slide.

 

Spoiler: It wasn't.

Glad to see it looks like they're preserving the look of the windows, as well as opening the windows on the streetfront. The parking/storage building is clownishly hideous lol, but it fronts an exit ramp so no big deal. 

 

Anyone else think it odd that the Tyler complex was in the running? Just seems way out of sync with what they've got going on over there. 

^ really? that is a head scratcher.

 

but with that news i do love even more how out of the box they were thinking.

 

gives hope for future city offices moves.

Police Headquarter Renderings. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/locked-on/lo-cleveland/cleveland-police-unveil-renderings-proposed-new-90-million-headquarters/95-6a2dd948-0181-420c-a2b6-a417de249ae8

Channel 19 story. https://www.cleveland19.com/2023/02/07/an-inside-look-cpds-planned-new-headquarters-site/

with how expensive public projects have been lately, I continue to be surprised that this'll only be 90 million 

Hopefully this is just the start of the city being more efficient with our tax dollars.  It can be done!  

Being efficient with tax dollars?  Wow, what a great idea!