Tina Lam and Michael Cheng have bought Presidio Terrace, a private street lined with expensive homes. Residents apparently had no idea the common spaces were up for sale.

Thanks to a little-noticed auction sale, a South Bay couple are the proud owners of one of the most exclusive streets in San Francisco — and they’re looking for ways to make their purchase pay.

 

:-D

 

LOL HOA did not pay real estate taxes for long time on the street and common areas.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Rich-SF-residents-get-a-shock-Someone-bought-11738236.php#comments

 

 

 

This is awesome. 

Shocking, two wealthy liberals didn't pay their taxes! 

Proof of how Third-World things can get when you privatize infrastructure.

Proof of how Third-World things can get when you privatize infrastructure.

By all accounts the street and common areas are in great shape. Article mentions that there are something like 118 private streets in SF.

For now. What if these people don't make enough money off of the street to be motivated to do repair work?

there are a few private streets like that in nyc too, in the bronx and in trumps old neighborhood in queens. good places to get your car booted if you park there.

Shocking, two wealthy liberals didn't pay their taxes! 

 

Did...did you read the article?

 

I guarantee they'll buy them out. It's genius. I wish I had come up with this plan.

"The couple’s purchase appears to be the culmination of a comedy of errors involving a $14-a-year property tax bill that the homeowners association failed to pay for three decades. It’s something that the owners of all 181 private streets in San Francisco are obliged to do."

 

I'm curious about the nature of the $14 per year tax that the home owners failed to pay.  Even if it's a minor assessment that was tacked on property taxes ages ago, it seems so very very low for a city that's one of, if not THE most, expensive to live in. 

 

The fact that this couple laid low for 2 years shows just how shrewd they are.  I can't wait to see how this turns out!

 

 

Imagine how pissed you be if you realized the only reason your portion of a $420 tax bill over 30 YEARS lead to your street being sold is that the bills were being sent to an address no longer associated with you HOA. How long before someone sues the HOA for failing to do what they're intended to?

This is just another example of why HOA's are nightmares. 

For now. What if these people don't make enough money off of the street to be motivated to do repair work?

 

Then the residents will start voting with their feet and moving and the value of the street will go down. Or they will seek to buy them out at a hefty premium, which is his goal, and they can get their street back.

Shocking, two wealthy liberals didn't pay their taxes! 

 

Did...did you read the article?

 

I guarantee they'll buy them out. It's genius. I wish I had come up with this plan.

 

Yes, the two residents either current or former that I was referring to were Senators Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi.  Hence why I am not shocked that they didn't pay even the most minuscule of taxes.

"The couple’s purchase appears to be the culmination of a comedy of errors involving a $14-a-year property tax bill that the homeowners association failed to pay for three decades. It’s something that the owners of all 181 private streets in San Francisco are obliged to do."

 

I'm curious about the nature of the $14 per year tax that the home owners failed to pay.  Even if it's a minor assessment that was tacked on property taxes ages ago, it seems so very very low for a city that's one of, if not THE most, expensive to live in. 

 

The fact that this couple laid low for 2 years shows just how shrewd they are.  I can't wait to see how this turns out!

Tax sales often have a clawback period for the "prior" owner to reclaim the real estate. Yes they were smart.

 

That is a nice looking street, why do they need a gate though.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/san-francisco-street-sells-90k-225021750.html

Shocking, two wealthy liberals didn't pay their taxes! 

 

Did...did you read the article?

 

I guarantee they'll buy them out. It's genius. I wish I had come up with this plan.

 

Yes, the two residents either current or former that I was referring to were Senators Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi.  Hence why I am not shocked that they didn't pay even the most minuscule of taxes.

 

You STILL didn't read the article. 

 

...the attorney for the Presidio Homeowners Association said the group had failed to pay up because its tax bill was being mailed to the Kearny Street address used by an accountant who hadn’t worked for the homeowners since the 1980s.

 

Do you pay things you don't know you're responsible for?  Are you cutting checks to the county auditor just on the off chance there's a charge you don't know about?

 

I'm sure many of the homes have changed hands in the last 30 years, and new owners would have no idea about the charge.  The rest faithfully paid their own property taxes and HOA fees, which would have included the charge had the clerical error not occurred.  But if the HOA (or their accountant) wasn't getting the bill, and thus not passing it along to the homeowners, how would any of them - Feinstein, Pelosi, whoever - know they were responsible for it?

^ Stop letting facts and logic get in the way of an uninformed rant against the libruhls.

Shocking, two wealthy liberals didn't pay their taxes! 

 

Did...did you read the article?

 

I guarantee they'll buy them out. It's genius. I wish I had come up with this plan.

 

Yes, the two residents either current or former that I was referring to were Senators Dianne Feinstein and Nancy Pelosi.  Hence why I am not shocked that they didn't pay even the most minuscule of taxes.

 

You STILL didn't read the article. 

 

...the attorney for the Presidio Homeowners Association said the group had failed to pay up because its tax bill was being mailed to the Kearny Street address used by an accountant who hadnt worked for the homeowners since the 1980s.

 

Do you pay things you don't know you're responsible for?  Are you cutting checks to the county auditor just on the off chance there's a charge you don't know about?

 

I'm sure many of the homes have changed hands in the last 30 years, and new owners would have no idea about the charge.  The rest faithfully paid their own property taxes and HOA fees, which would have included the charge had the clerical error not occurred.  But if the HOA (or their accountant) wasn't getting the bill, and thus not passing it along to the homeowners, how would any of them - Feinstein, Pelosi, whoever - know they were responsible for it?

 

Not a legit excuse. Especially when you buy a house in the area. You have a duty as an owner to stay informed. You buy a house and you know it is subject to an HOA. You know how much you should pay each month. If they do not collect it, you need to ask why and what the HOA goes for. On top of that you as a homeowner have a right and duty to inspect the tax filings for the HOA every year. The vast majority of people do not do this and 99% of the time everything is fine, but you still have a duty to stay informed. In this particular case, it is even more egregious on the homeowners because they have means to ensure that things were taken care of properly and they failed at that.

Looks like to me at one time in the 80's the HOA had an accountant handle the HOA money, bills, invoices etc.

Then the HOA started doing it themselves or hired someone else and they did not inform the Auditors office to send the tax bill to another address. IMHO the HOA should have always had it set up that they get copied on all tax bills.

The point trying to be made isn't whether or not it's a legit excuse, but more that it has absolutely nothing to do with some perceived tax evasion from the evil liberals. It's entirely possible that people on the street had no idea that the actual road was taxed separately. I'd have no idea how that works and if the HOA I bought into wasn't aware of it I wouldn't think there was a concern to be raised if I had never lived off a private road before.

 

It's definitely the fault of the HOA and there really isn't any legal reason the people who purchased it shouldn't continue as they please. But the entire situation is definitely the result of what appears to be a legitimate misunderstanding and accident and not at all about evading a minescule tax of a little over $1/house/year.

Yeah, Feinstein was busy representing a state poorly with a terrible mix of social conservatism and standard "California Liberal" myopia.

The point trying to be made isn't whether or not it's a legit excuse, but more that it has absolutely nothing to do with some perceived tax evasion from the evil liberals. It's entirely possible that people on the street had no idea that the actual road was taxed separately. I'd have no idea how that works and if the HOA I bought into wasn't aware of it I wouldn't think there was a concern to be raised if I had never lived off a private road before.

 

It's definitely the fault of the HOA and there really isn't any legal reason the people who purchased it shouldn't continue as they please. But the entire situation is definitely the result of what appears to be a legitimate misunderstanding and accident and not at all about evading a minescule tax of a little over $1/house/year.

 

Whether they did not know or remember is irrelevant, the fact is they should have known. When they did a title search, it would have been disclosed there. To get a bank loan for a mortgage, it would have been disclosed. They had every opportunity to know even if it was not overtly disclosed to them. It was their duty to find this out. The fact they chose to bury their heads in the sand is to their own detriment.

It's relevant to the argument that they were liberals overtly evading taxes. Which is what was being claimed above.

 

I'm always a fan of people claiming people should know to go looking for things they obviously had no idea about. If something isn't disclosed to you and you're not an expert in the field of how these things work and those who are didn't find it or let you know, then how in the hell are you supposed to know? Obviously it's not as simple as "it comes up whenever you do X" like you're stating or somebody would've noticed at some point in 30 years.

Those kind of boobytraps are 3rd World crap. Or maybe the old 2nd World, really. It's like a random checkpoint.

It's relevant to the argument that they were liberals overtly evading taxes. Which is what was being claimed above.

 

I'm always a fan of people claiming people should know to go looking for things they obviously had no idea about. If something isn't disclosed to you and you're not an expert in the field of how these things work and those who are didn't find it or let you know, then how in the hell are you supposed to know? Obviously it's not as simple as "it comes up whenever you do X" like you're stating or somebody would've noticed at some point in 30 years.

 

Their political affiliation is irrelevant.

 

However, as to the street matter and what they should know, They are all multi millionaires. They may not think to ask, however, when they contemplate a transaction such as a large estate house, they have a duty to hire professionals do be the experts when they do not want to do the work themselves. It is hard to feel sorry for them because they had the means to discover this. On top of all that, with any real estate transaction, any title search will uncover items such as tax liens that may be filed against a property or neighborhood which could affect the property. This includes HOA and streets. Claiming they were naïve in this situation just does not hold water.

Again, nobody is claiming you should feel sorry or that they weren't in the wrong. The argument above was that it was liberals purposefully avoiding paying their taxes. That's what people were responding to. You're responding to things that weren't being said.

While this actual issue is very interesting, THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION IS STUPID!  POLITICAL AFFILIATION IS IRRELEVANT!!!

 

Yeah, those sneaky liberals were purposely avoiding paying $1 a year or whatever BECAUSE THEY ARE SNEAKY LIBERALS trying to avoid taxes!  That'll show us!

Can we have one stinking thread without politics??

No, because people like wpcc88[/member] feel the need to turn every topic into something it's not by making ridiculous unfounded political claims.

No, because people like wpcc88[/member] feel the need to turn every topic into something it's not by making ridiculous unfounded political claims.

 

It's not unfounded, they lived on the street and didn't pay their taxes.  People get butt hurt and can't handle it when people make statements about their political idols. If Trump, Pence or Ryan; hell anyone that isn't a democrat would've done this all hell would be breaking loose and it would be a much bigger story.  That part you cannot argue!

^  I'm sure the nefarious Pelosi was trying to scam the government out of its $12 per year so that she could buy 2 extra lattes.

The mortgage interest deduction on any of these homes could have housed several people in public housing. 

No, because people like wpcc88[/member] feel the need to turn every topic into something it's not by making ridiculous unfounded political claims.

 

It's not unfounded, they lived on the street and didn't pay their taxes.  People get butt hurt and can't handle it when people make statements about their political idols. If Trump, Pence or Ryan; hell anyone that isn't a democrat would've done this all hell would be breaking loose and it would be a much bigger story.  That part you cannot argue!

 

This is not quite the same as liberals not paying their taxes. This is a few hundred dollars. It was more just stupidity on their part for this oversight. I have no sympathy for them but, it is not quite the same as a liberal who has a $2 million tax bill and has been openly evading taxes. 

The mortgage interest deduction on any of these homes could have housed several people in public housing. 

 

We're not supposed to criticize housing subsidies unless poor people benefit. 'murica

^ That is a deduction that will never go away because so much of the economy depends on it. It would crash the entire financial system if they got rid of it.

^ i doubt it.  only 1/4th of homeowners claim the deduction.  it benefits mostly high income earners. 

The mortgage interest deduction is one reason why U.S. mortgage debt became the single-greatest asset class on the planet and its collapse brought much of the world to its knees.  Wealthy Americans would be forced to buy cheaper primary homes and vacation homes (of course, you get to do the deduction on your lake house, because you deserve it) if the deduction was eliminated. 

 

As for evading taxes, it's pretty much impossible to stop paying property taxes without forfeiting your property.  You can, if you're wealthy enough, orchestrate a giant property tax break on a mega-project.  Or just threaten to move across the river. 

No, because people like wpcc88[/member] feel the need to turn every topic into something it's not by making ridiculous unfounded political claims.

 

It's not unfounded, they lived on the street and didn't pay their taxes.  People get butt hurt and can't handle it when people make statements about their political idols. If Trump, Pence or Ryan; hell anyone that isn't a democrat would've done this all hell would be breaking loose and it would be a much bigger story.  That part you cannot argue!

 

The people living on this street aren't my idols. So...no.

 

It's a bill of literally $0.78/year/house. The ease in which someone could not notice that wasn't being handled properly by the HOA is clearly the reason people didn't suspect a problem.

 

There's a huge difference between actively avoiding taxes and simply not realizing that your absolutely tiny portion of a tax for a common area shared among your neighbors isn't being taken out the HOA payments like it probably claimed it was.

^ i doubt it.  only 1/4th of homeowners claim the deduction.  it benefits mostly high income earners. 

 

That Is only part of the equation. All commercial properties use this deduction as well. If you get rid of the deduction, what it will do is cause the real estate market to tank. This will cause asset prices to be written down and the value of a $5 million piece of property is now going to be $3 million. While that may be too bad so sad for the property owner, he is now underwater on the mortgage and it will trigger a covenant from the bank to call the loan (because it is commercial and they have those covenants) or he cant refinance it when it comes due, thus sending the property in foreclosure. Now the bank has all these bad performing notes on their books because the tax deduction caused the rapid deflation of real estate and they can no longer meet their capital requirements by the fed. They cannot offer loans for other businesses looking to grow or even provide lines of credit to businesses to help them with their payroll. Banks will fail and take other non real estate businesses with them for the reasons cited above. It will create a downward spiral just like in 2009 which, if you don't remember, was led by the real estate market crashing. 

 

This is why the mortgage interest deduction will not go away

Government should have more boobytraps so people who know how to exploit them can sit there all day and watch for them to be sprung.

^ i doubt it.  only 1/4th of homeowners claim the deduction.  it benefits mostly high income earners. 

 

That Is only part of the equation. All commercial properties use this deduction as well. If you get rid of the deduction, what it will do is cause the real estate market to tank. This will cause asset prices to be written down and the value of a $5 million piece of property is now going to be $3 million. While that may be too bad so sad for the property owner, he is now underwater on the mortgage and it will trigger a covenant from the bank to call the loan (because it is commercial and they have those covenants) or he cant refinance it when it comes due, thus sending the property in foreclosure. Now the bank has all these bad performing notes on their books because the tax deduction caused the rapid deflation of real estate and they can no longer meet their capital requirements by the fed. They cannot offer loans for other businesses looking to grow or even provide lines of credit to businesses to help them with their payroll. Banks will fail and take other non real estate businesses with them for the reasons cited above. It will create a downward spiral just like in 2009 which, if you don't remember, was led by the real estate market crashing. 

 

This is why the mortgage interest deduction will not go away

 

Business interest deduction does not have to go away if personal mortgage interest deduction goes away.

This is why the mortgage interest deduction will not go away

 

No reason why it can't be phased out over 5-10 years.  Highly leveraged real estate deals are central to collapses.  I watched a documentary on French housing where one of their banking heads smirked at what goes on in the United States.  It was France, of course, that first stopped buying our mortgage-backed securities in early 2008.  The next day many banks followed suit.  We all remember what happened next, except we don't.  Tons of people made money off the run-up and the collapse and they'd love to see it all repeat in the exact same way. 

^ i doubt it.  only 1/4th of homeowners claim the deduction.  it benefits mostly high income earners. 

 

That Is only part of the equation. All commercial properties use this deduction as well. If you get rid of the deduction, what it will do is cause the real estate market to tank. This will cause asset prices to be written down and the value of a $5 million piece of property is now going to be $3 million. While that may be too bad so sad for the property owner, he is now underwater on the mortgage and it will trigger a covenant from the bank to call the loan (because it is commercial and they have those covenants) or he cant refinance it when it comes due, thus sending the property in foreclosure. Now the bank has all these bad performing notes on their books because the tax deduction caused the rapid deflation of real estate and they can no longer meet their capital requirements by the fed. They cannot offer loans for other businesses looking to grow or even provide lines of credit to businesses to help them with their payroll. Banks will fail and take other non real estate businesses with them for the reasons cited above. It will create a downward spiral just like in 2009 which, if you don't remember, was led by the real estate market crashing. 

 

This is why the mortgage interest deduction will not go away

 

Business interest deduction does not have to go away if personal mortgage interest deduction goes away.

 

Commercial Real Estate Mortgages are tied to that deduction.