NYC cab drivers earned an extra $5.2 million in tips in 2013 simply because the software presents three buttons to the rider, to leave a 20%, 25%, or 30% tip. People can enter in a different amount but most don't bother. 20% is the most common tip by far. It's not directly related to Uber or Lyft, but I think it's relevant because it shows how important software (and what defaults it gives to the user) can be.

 

Uber is lowering its fares yet again.  They're down to $2 minimum fare rides in Nashville.  So the driver gets $1.60 per ride.

 

Uber appears to be pushing wages down so low that you won't see college-educated drivers by 2016.  It'll be the immigrant guys who don't know how to get anywhere and pull scams on riders. 

 

 

 

NYC cab drivers earned an extra $5.2 million in tips in 2013 simply because the software presents three buttons to the rider, to leave a 20%, 25%, or 30% tip. People can enter in a different amount but most don't bother. 20% is the most common tip by far. It's not directly related to Uber or Lyft, but I think it's relevant because it shows how important software (and what defaults it gives to the user) can be.

 

Sure--this is just like those table side credit card EPOS machines that restaurants in the rest of the civilized world use with tip buttons.  For some reason in the USA we still allow our servers to disappear with our credit cards in some back room and have to manually enter the tip amount when they return....  (GRRRRRR!)

 

Yeah, those shy-sty creeps, doing their job the way they are supposed to!  How can you trust that?

So as of Friday Uber is now cheaper than Lyft in Cincinnati and in virtually every city in the United States.  Part of this is in reaction to lower gas prices but part of it is an attempt to bury Lyft. 

 

In my experience I haven't heard almost any Lyft rider claim that they chose Lyft because it was cheaper.  I'm not convinced that price is much of a motivating factor in people's decision to use Lyft.  Instead many simply started using Lyft and never had any problems so never were compelled to try the competitor -- you know, that competitor who uses the exact same drivers and the exact same cars and the exact same technology all at the exact same time. 

 

But Uber has started some sort of Friday & Saturday night guarantee for its drivers which is much better than the previous guarantee.  In the recent past I was always able to make more money driving for Uber and Lyft at the same time than simply turning off the Lyft app and only aiming for Uber's guarantee, which was typically something like this.  So Uber it trying to kill off Lyft not only by being cheaper (which I don't think will work quickly) but rather by raining cash on drivers, making it an easy decision for drivers who drive for both to only drive for Uber. 

 

 

 

Hey, if Amazon has taught us anything it's that losing money is the key to economic success in the new wave of industry.

So as of Friday Uber is now cheaper than Lyft in Cincinnati and in virtually every city in the United States.  Part of this is in reaction to lower gas prices but part of it is an attempt to bury Lyft. 

 

In my experience I haven't heard almost any Lyft rider claim that they chose Lyft because it was cheaper.  I'm not convinced that price is much of a motivating factor in people's decision to use Lyft.  Instead many simply started using Lyft and never had any problems so never were compelled to try the competitor -- you know, that competitor who uses the exact same drivers and the exact same cars and the exact same technology all at the exact same time. 

 

But Uber has started some sort of Friday & Saturday night guarantee for its drivers which is much better than the previous guarantee.  In the recent past I was always able to make more money driving for Uber and Lyft at the same time than simply turning off the Lyft app and only aiming for Uber's guarantee, which was typically something like this.  So Uber it trying to kill off Lyft not only by being cheaper (which I don't think will work quickly) but rather by raining cash on drivers, making it an easy decision for drivers who drive for both to only drive for Uber. 

 

 

 

 

I'm the weirdo who bucks that trend.  I'm still uneasy about using Uber due to some of their more shady practices.  Worried that if they become a monopoly it will be junk service too.

Here is my 1099 from Uber.  There is a lot of confusion brewing on Facebook forums regarding what exactly Uber was calling income.  It appears that in cities where tolls are common, Uber was adding the toll reimbursement as "income".  Also it's unclear at the moment if Uber is somehow shifting the tax on their 20% cut from fares onto drivers. 

 

 

Uber has an expert legal and tax team that has devised a way to shift as as much of the expenses, risk, and taxes onto the drivers.  This did not matter so much in early and mid-2014 since the fares were 30% higher than they are now.  Uber is using the argument that there are many, many more ride requests now meaning the average driver waits less time between ride requests and drives a shorter distance to pick someone up, but I'm not sure that it really evens out compared to the ridiculous money drivers were making in 2013 and early 2014. 

 

@JeffSpeckAICP Here's the sign in my Boston cab with ripped seats that smells of cigarettes.

Seems like free advertising for them

Finally tried out Lyft line which basically make Lyft into a share taxi. I attempted to use it in LA but as the driver confirmed it doesn't work so well there because things are spread out.

 

I wound up using It in San Fran which was very nice. An 8 dollar trip costs me 4 and saved me a bit of time over using transit.  Probably would have been better to use after bar hopping on a weekend near last call. I'm hoping this makes it into Chicago and other place.

I like that they give the message "be ready outside".  People who are not ready even though you've spent 10 minutes driving to them are the bane of the whole system.  It's amazing that one of the great leaps with smart phone gps is that you can see the car approaching, yet people don't pay attention to it.  When picking women up from their apartments they're often "getting ready", and when picking people up from bars they're often "finishing up their last beer".

 

With both Uber and Lyft after you have called the rider they have five minutes to come outside.  After that time you can cancel the ride and you are paid $5.  Also if a rider requests a ride but cancels after you have been driving toward them for five minutes you are paid $5. 

An entry from the Uber Driver facebook page:

 

Sometimes I really hate people. I picked up a couple and a lady at a bar, the lady was paying for the ride. She asked if I could stop and drop off the couple right up the road, and I said sure. We get there and the couple hands the lady a $20, but she said she wouldn't take it, so they handed it to me and got out. As soon as they shut the door the lady said "I might as well take that"!! So I reluctantly handed it over because I couldn't risk getting a bad rating from her (our guarantees are now tied to short term ratings). It was a good 20 minute ride, and it was only $13. This bitch actually profited $7 from this ride!! WTF?!

 

 

This reminds me of the old "nurse trick" pizza delivery men encounter on hospital deliveries.  A doctor (or another nurse) sends somebody down to the lobby to pick up the food.  This person pockets your tip in the elevator on the way down, you leave empty-handed. 

 

Uber driver punched by rider on Main St.:

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/2015/03/01/main-allegedly-assaults-uber-driver-on-main-st-otr/24224705/

Uber driver punched by rider on Main St.:

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/crime/2015/03/01/main-allegedly-assaults-uber-driver-on-main-st-otr/24224705/

 

"Around 1:17 a.m., Varma allegedly hit an Uber driver and struck the vehicle's windshield in the 1200 block of Main Street -- a block that is home to OTR's Park + Vine and Macaroon Bar."

 

Probably had a few too many Macaroons and Kombuchas, no doubt.

Video of disgruntled passengers throwing rocks at Uber car:

http://www.10news.com/news/dashcam-shows-uber-drivers-ugly-encounter-03112015

 

It's amazing out there on a Friday or Saturday night.  The frat crowd truly believe that they rule the Earth.  Last weekend I didn't drink at all Saturday night thanks to Bockfest the night before, and decided to go out and drive right when the bars were closing.  I picked three dudes and a check up from The Banks during 5X surge pricing.  One of them slips and falls on the ice getting in the car. Turns out they were only going across the bridge to Roebling Row apartments.  Two of the guys were heaving as if they were going to vomit.  One lowered the window and was spitting out the window as we crossed the bridge.  When we get to the apartments one drunk immediately slips on the ice for the second time in 10 minutes and falls head-first into the shrubbery and starts throwing up.  The second guy goes over and starts vomiting right next to him.  The third guy laughs and takes pictures of the other two.  Meanwhile the girl in the front seat is convinced to stay with those losers for the night.  Originally she was going to go back to her apartment, wherever that was.  It was a $17 ride across the bridge. 

 

Awesome nights, guys.  You blew $100 on alcohol, ruined your $225 J. Crew sport jackets, and paid $17 for a ride a half mile across the river. 

^FBLA

Uber banned in Germany and offices raided in Paris and Seoul:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31942997

From the forum...

 

 

I just spoke with a black car driver. He picked a pax up in Covington, KY. She asked to go to New Jersey!

 

He agreed and started the trip. He got 4 hours in and the app disconnected. He said he wasn't sure if the meter was still running or not.

 

In the end, he ended up getting $700 on a fare for that trip. He said he emailed Uber and they told him it is a 4hour max.

 

 

I told him he should email them back with the pick up and drop off addresses. Not sure if he will. But he drove almost 30 hours non stop for $700, not counting gas and the 25% for ubers cut.

 

If you think this TRANSPORTATION company doesn't need some form of regulation, you're NUTS!

 

It sickens me to drive for them. But I do what works for me.

 

Uber will get what's coming to them one way or another. They coukd careless about thier drivers, it's proved time and time again.

 

They manipulate drivers into being scared of the rating, or with some bogus guarantee.

 

‪#‎Stopuber

From the forum...

 

 

I just spoke with a black car driver. He picked a pax up in Covington, KY. She asked to go to New Jersey!

 

He agreed and started the trip. He got 4 hours in and the app disconnected. He said he wasn't sure if the meter was still running or not.

 

In the end, he ended up getting $700 on a fare for that trip. He said he emailed Uber and they told him it is a 4hour max.

 

 

I told him he should email them back with the pick up and drop off addresses. Not sure if he will. But he drove almost 30 hours non stop for $700, not counting gas and the 25% for ubers cut.

 

If you think this TRANSPORTATION company doesn't need some form of regulation, you're NUTS!

 

It sickens me to drive for them. But I do what works for me.

 

Uber will get what's coming to them one way or another. They coukd careless about thier drivers, it's proved time and time again.

 

They manipulate drivers into being scared of the rating, or with some bogus guarantee.

 

‪#‎Stopuber

 

For this Uber story we can probably dig up hundreds of stories over the last decades of some guy hailing a cab at JFK and asked to be driven to OHare.  Never mind the fact that in towns like NYC, the taxi drivers are already probably working 20 hours a day....even with regulations.

Here is the issue with long rides...Uber's app automatically ends every ride at four hours.  So if someone requests a ride longer than four hours, you cannot simply request another ride because the app will not let that driver accept rides outside of his designated city.  It is *also* against Uber's rules for a driver to accept cash as compensation for the ride beyond that 4-hour limit.  I've never been in this position (I'm approaching 1,000 rides but I've still never even done a 40-mile ride) but what I'd do is simply negotiate a flat rate with someone if they wanted to go super-far and have them turn off Uber and have them pay me cash.  If they can't get $1,000 cash out of the ATM we aren't doing it. 

 

 

 

An example of the inane stuff that is posted daily on the Uber Drivers facebook group:

I need to get from Lakewood (Clifton and Edwards) to the Cleveland Greyhound station by 4am this Saturday.  Would Uber be a good option for this and does the time cause one of those "demand" calculations to kick in?

 

Thanks!

I requested Uber at 2:50am on a Wednesday night/Thursday morning to go to the Cleveland Amtrak station at normal fare. I believe peak times on Friday nights are around 2am when bars close though.

There are no set times when the system implements surge prices.  Sometimes there is no surge on Friday and Saturday nights right at 2am.  And even with up to a 2X surge Uber is still pretty cheap.  If you are prompted to accept the surge price when you request a ride, just wait 15 minutes and the surge has probably ended. 

 

I have never seen a sustained surge period after about 3:00am on a Friday or Saturday.  The only reason it would happen at that hour would be if there was a snowstorm or other severe weather that both discouraged drivers and motivated more people to request rides than would have otherwise. 

 

I need to get from Lakewood (Clifton and Edwards) to the Cleveland Greyhound station by 4am this Saturday.  Would Uber be a good option for this and does the time cause one of those "demand" calculations to kick in?

 

Thanks!

I am now a fan of Uber.  The system worked flawlessly.  It was pretty cool to actually see how far away the car was before pickup.  Absolutely going to use this in the future!!!

I am now a fan of Uber.  The system worked flawlessly.  It was pretty cool to actually see how far away the car was before pickup.  Absolutely going to use this in the future!!!

 

Seeing the driver approach on your phone is a huge advantage over the old way of doing things, yet surprisingly few people pay attention.  I have to call at least half of riders to tell them to come out.  It wastes a huge amount of time. 

 

Before cell phones people used to wait by their doors looking for the pizza guy.  Cabs were the same way until Uber.  Now with cell phones people are deep in their homes absorbed in some inane activity and forget to turn on their phones both for pizza delivery and when they're getting picked up. 

 

There are a lot of people going out who "aren't ready" 15 minutes after making the ride request.  Then when people are in a bar and you call them they'll say "We're finishing up our last drink we'll be right out!".  Five minutes later still no sign of them.  With Uber a driver can cancel the ride and you are charged $5 if you don't come out after they have called you. 

 

 

 

I need to get from Lakewood (Clifton and Edwards) to the Cleveland Greyhound station by 4am this Saturday.  Would Uber be a good option for this and does the time cause one of those "demand" calculations to kick in?

 

Thanks!

I am now a fan of Uber.  The system worked flawlessly.  It was pretty cool to actually see how far away the car was before pickup.  Absolutely going to use this in the future!!!

 

It's the number one reason for Uber's success IMO (followed closely by the reliable fare quotes and non-stinky cars). 

 

If the taxi companies would just join them instead of fighting Uber (as they have done in Toronto), we'd have the best of both worlds.

Has anyone ever gotten an insurance company opinion on Uber and would like to share? I have some family members considering driving, and I told them to talk to their insurance company first.  Seems to me that the liability could be risky.  Any lawyers want to chime in?

 

It's the number one reason for Uber's success IMO (followed closely by the reliable fare quotes and non-stinky cars). 

 

 

Most people who drive for Uber quit pretty quickly (before taking 100 rides) so there's no time for thousands of passengers to fray the upholstery and stink up the car.  A NYC cab takes 50-75 fares every 24 hours, so inevitably one or two of those people have bad b.o. 

Has anyone ever gotten an insurance company opinion on Uber and would like to share? I have some family members considering driving, and I told them to talk to their insurance company first.  Seems to me that the liability could be risky.  Any lawyers want to chime in?

 

Technically you should not have to get commercial insurance as Uber's insurance kicks in at the moment you get a ride request.  But I have heard that Geico and similar insurers instantly drop customers when they sign up for Uber.  It seems to me to be possible to lie to your insurance company about what you were doing in the event of an accident. 

 

A NYC cab takes 50-75 fares every 24 hours, so inevitably one or two of those people have bad b.o. 

 

Starting with the driver, behind the wheel for 19 hours....

12* They switch out every twelve hours. Which creates two very difficult times to get cabs. the 4 p.m rush hour and the 4 a.m. drunk hour.

From the Uber forum:

 

If anyone was in Columbus Saturday night, you saw Uber's surge hit the dizzying 7X level thanks to the insane crush caused by the crowd of 80,000 leaving the Rolling Stones concert right when High St. was hitting its usual full weekend stride.  Also, Lyft does not operate in Columbus anymore, so Uber has no competitor there.  I assume that driving for Uber in Columbus is a nightmare since so much of the activity is concentrated on High St., which is often completely gridlocked.  The only areas of Cincinnati that regularly gridlock are Mt. Adams and Main St. between Central Parkway and 14th. 

 

Aside from New Year's, when it briefly hit 8X in Cincinnati, I've only seen it go above 5X once.  That was during Beerfest.  Someone told me he was so messed up that he took a $350 ride because he decided to run some errands after Beerfest with the meter running. 

Jake - how can a user tell (or can they tell) what the surge rate is at a particular time?  We are using Uber for Bunbury on Friday, and I do not expect anything too crazy but curious.  I have used it for concerts at Bogart's and the Horseshoe and did not notice a big difference.  Seems to be a little more for Reds games.

BTW if you have an iPhone there is an app called surgeprotector which will tell you what the surge is and where it is. Also pick up Lyft - often when uber is surged Lyft may not be check both apps

I've been driving Uber for about 3 weeks and have completed about 200 rides. So far it seems pretty good. There is one thing that is really annoying, but it is no one's fault. I often end up getting ride requests when I'm getting on the freeway. I had one that the Uber app said was 3 minutes away, but I was getting on the freeway and the next ramp was 2.5 miles away so by the time I turned around I added 5 miles to my trip just to get to the pickup.

Jake - how can a user tell (or can they tell) what the surge rate is at a particular time?  We are using Uber for Bunbury on Friday, and I do not expect anything too crazy but curious.  I have used it for concerts at Bogart's and the Horseshoe and did not notice a big difference.  Seems to be a little more for Reds games.

 

When you open the app and click on your location, it will have a screen pop up that says 1.7X or 2.5X or 4.0X and "DO YOU ACCEPT THIS RATE".  Many people try to claim that they didn't see the surge prompt but it couldn't be more obvious unless they made it multi-colored and flash. 

 

 

I've been driving Uber for about 3 weeks and have completed about 200 rides. So far it seems pretty good. There is one thing that is really annoying, but it is no one's fault. I often end up getting ride requests when I'm getting on the freeway. I had one that the Uber app said was 3 minutes away, but I was getting on the freeway and the next ramp was 2.5 miles away so by the time I turned around I added 5 miles to my trip just to get to the pickup.

 

Yeah that's why you don't do that.  After you drop someone off in the suburbs do one of three things:

 

1. find a parking lot or street parking spot and sit there until you get a request

2. head back toward the city (if you're *WAY* out there) on a radial avenue, not the interstate

3. turn off the app and drive back toward a surge area or other regularly busy area

 

When it's 4x or 5x surge pricing in an area where I'm not, and I know that I can get there in about 10 minutes, I turn off the app and high tail it to that area.  The problem is that by the time you get there it might only be a 2x surge or no surge at all.  Or the area you left might have become a surge area.  But after awhile you pick up on how long the surges generally last and if it's worth driving to a surge area speculatively. 

 

Another trick is that if you are driving 5-10 minutes to pick up someone, you can keep checking the surge rates by opening the rider app.  If you are going to pick up a non-surge ride and the area suddenly becomes a surge area, you can cancel the ride and then probably make more money picking up a surge ride in that same area.  But if you do that too much your driver rating will be harmed. 

 

Still, on New Year's I pulled off that last maneuver to perfection...I got a 2X surge request, but then noticed it was up to 5X by the time I got to that guy's pickup spot.  So I cancelled the ride and got a 5X request a minute later.  It ended up being a $155 fare. 

 

 

 

^ Thanks for the information.  We had no problem getting there although it was getting busy.  We needed two cars and I got one and another person initially could not - but no surge pricing.  Leaving around 11 PM on the other hand was a bit of a zoo.  People definitely having difficulty getting cars - we got tired of waiting and hopped in a van taxi with other people and just told them we would pay since they were only going to Newport.

Friday night was insane.  Unfortunately I could not drive, but a surge rate of 7X was sustained in the Anderson Twp zone for at least an hour when Riverbend let out.  That happened because the Reds, Bunbury, and that concert let out at roughly the same time. 

 

So a 7X surge ride from Riverbend to DT would be in the $150 range, meaning those who took Uber at that rate to various suburbs were $200+.  I'd bet there were at least a dozen $200+ rides on Friday night coming out of that event. 

This is definitely not good news for Uber and Lyft. I know that Taxi companies are relishing this news.

 

http://www.inc.com/jeff-bercovici/uber-legal-setback.html?cid=em01011week25day17a

 

 

 

This kind of reminds me of Napster, the music sharing program from about 1998. It was extremely popular until the big record labels claimed copyright and shut it down. Eventually, YouTube, Spotify, and other start-ups fulfilled the demand, but who remembers Napster anymore?

With Napster it was the record labels going after them and claiming copyright infringement. In this case it is the government claiming they are not paying taxes (employment taxes).

 

While the general public does not really care how Uber/Lyft work. The model depends on independent contractors who fill that role. The government (tax authorities) hate independent contractors because they have a harder time collecting taxes from them. It is easier for a large corporation to do their dirty work.  This is not the work of the taxi lobby, although they are probably supportive of this, but really it is due to the fact that CA is a very cash strapped state looking for additional ways to generate tax revenue, as Uber is an easy target.

With Napster it was the record labels going after them and claiming copyright infringement. In this case it is the government claiming they are not paying taxes (employment taxes).

 

While the general public does not really care how Uber/Lyft work. The model depends on independent contractors who fill that role. The government (tax authorities) hate independent contractors because they have a harder time collecting taxes from them. It is easier for a large corporation to do their dirty work.  This is not the work of the taxi lobby, although they are probably supportive of this, but really it is due to the fact that CA is a very cash strapped state looking for additional ways to generate tax revenue, as Uber is an easy target.

 

I don't know of any taxi drivers on a cab company payroll either.  They are all independent contractors. 

Even UPS Drivers (who have designated routes) are "independent contractors". If Uber drivers are found to be employees, this will likely increase the cost of many services beyond ridesharing/taxis.

 

Edit: apparently California already found FedEx/UPS drivers are employees, and not independent contractors, have they have claimed they are.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/23/how-fedex-is-trying-to-save-the-business-model-that-saved-it-millions/

With Napster it was the record labels going after them and claiming copyright infringement. In this case it is the government claiming they are not paying taxes (employment taxes).

 

While the general public does not really care how Uber/Lyft work. The model depends on independent contractors who fill that role. The government (tax authorities) hate independent contractors because they have a harder time collecting taxes from them. It is easier for a large corporation to do their dirty work.  This is not the work of the taxi lobby, although they are probably supportive of this, but really it is due to the fact that CA is a very cash strapped state looking for additional ways to generate tax revenue, as Uber is an easy target.

 

I don't know of any taxi drivers on a cab company payroll either.  They are all independent contractors. 

 

I don't know of any cabbies who are either, but what I was saying is I bet they would be pleased with such a decision because it curbs Uber's influence. Now, this could also negatively affect cab drivers too in certain states like CA who need to do a money grab to get their books in line.

 

 

With Napster it was the record labels going after them and claiming copyright infringement. In this case it is the government claiming they are not paying taxes (employment taxes).

 

While the general public does not really care how Uber/Lyft work. The model depends on independent contractors who fill that role. The government (tax authorities) hate independent contractors because they have a harder time collecting taxes from them. It is easier for a large corporation to do their dirty work.  This is not the work of the taxi lobby, although they are probably supportive of this, but really it is due to the fact that CA is a very cash strapped state looking for additional ways to generate tax revenue, as Uber is an easy target.

 

I don't know of any taxi drivers on a cab company payroll either.  They are all independent contractors. 

 

I don't know of any cabbies who are either, but what I was saying is I bet they would be pleased with such a decision because it curbs Uber's influence. Now, this could also negatively affect cab drivers too in certain states like CA who need to do a money grab to get their books in line.

 

 

 

Yes understood--but the cabbies should be careful what they root for.  Uber has a huge warchest and could turn it on them very easily.

Even UPS Drivers (who have designated routes) are "independent contractors". If Uber drivers are found to be employees, this will likely increase the cost of many services beyond ridesharing/taxis.

 

Edit: apparently California already found FedEx/UPS drivers are employees, and not independent contractors, have they have claimed they are.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2014/10/23/how-fedex-is-trying-to-save-the-business-model-that-saved-it-millions/

 

I always thought UPS used the employee model because they were unionized more and FEDEX had the independent contractor model. I know FedEx lost that case but I think they are still appealing it.

I may be mistaken with UPS. I know their freight drivers are independent contractors, but their actual delivery drivers may be employees. FedEx definitely has almost all independent contractors delivering.