From their FAQs, it looks like Uber and Lyft have (some) insurance coverages for riders in their drivers' cars (it's probably not enough if you have 4 people in your car and crash on the highway, but that's a Grand Canyon issue). But, do drivers have any premiums to pay if they are the cause of an accident? I know when I drove cars around between dealerships as a living in high school/college I was out $500 if I even put a scuff mark on a car.

I think if you're a full-time driver doing hundreds of rides per week looking to do this for the next ten years then you'd really want to look into the insurance situation.  But for a casual part-time driver the likelihood of something totally nuts happening is extraordinarily low. 

 

If you have these apps on your phone, you can look at how many cars are on the road right now in LA or NYC.  It's simply unbelievable -- hundreds and hundreds of cars.  So thousands of rides are taking place every day in these cities, maybe over 1 million per year.  Sure, 1 time out of a million something totally weird is going to happen.  But not 1 out of 1,000 or 1 out of 10,000. 

On the Lyft forum word has quickly spread that nobody across the country has been paid today.  This comes after a lot of worry that the company is going under.  Obviously if people aren't paid by the end of the week you aren't going to see any Lyft drivers out there this weekend. 

On the Lyft forum word has quickly spread that nobody across the country has been paid today.  This comes after a lot of worry that the company is going under.  Obviously if people aren't paid by the end of the week you aren't going to see any Lyft drivers out there this weekend. 

 

Did this get resolved?

Yes everyone was paid on Thursday, from what I can tell.  But there is more trouble in paradise.  It looks like Lyft recognizes that it has too many drivers and has dropped its fares so low in part to shoo some of them away, leaving only the most dedicated people.  They also restructured the "power driver bonus" to encourage full-time drivers to drive on weekend peak hours 10pm-3am. 

 

From what I can tell where I'm at if you're only driving Lyft you are definitely getting fewer trips and getting paid less for them than if you're only driving Uber.  But really there is no reason not to drive for both.  There is always the possibility that you might take a short, cheap Lyft customer when a minute later you might have gotten a higher-paying Uber trip, but the big problem with this job is that sitting there in your car is really, really boring and after about 20 minutes you have to get out of the car and stretch or simply start driving aimlessly.  Getting more calls helps reduce the amount of time you're just sitting there. 

To give a little back story on this whole thing at the heart of tech, there was a time not too long ago when Lyft was "crushing it." Those pink mustaches were all over the place. Taxi drivers were attacking cars with mustaches as their revenues plummeted.

 

It wasn't until Uber X that Lyft started running into trouble. San Francisco is not in a bubble per se (the housing shortage is so deep that even if half the city loses their jobs, rents will still stay higher than New York), but it is probably set for some big "disruptions" and consolidations in the near future. Uber X disrupted Lyft, no doubt about it. It was fast too. Many long-time Lyft riders in San Francisco-Oakland switched to Uber X. If there is one of these companies to bank on, it's Uber. Their nation-wide strategy seems stronger, and the app is solid from a development standpoint. What happens in the Bay foreshadows what happens in the rest of America. San Francisco is the leader in Gen Y technology adoption. What happens here happens years before other cities.

 

Three years ago, Uber was mainly the choice of CEO's and young millionaires in San Francisco. Also, if you wanted to ball hard and impress your friends or a date, you grabbed it sometimes. It was always just those fancy Lincoln Town Cars. It was status-oriented. Everybody else took Lyft or other local apps.

 

What will be really interesting to see is what happens to BART (jam-packed to the gills these days), but especially Muni. Believe it or not, the last few times I took some major Muni routes on Friday and Saturday nights, there were seats available. It seems like Uber and Lyft are killing party-oriented Muni riding. I have mixed feelings about this, since I have great memories of Muni pickups. A whole generation of San Franciscans may not know what it's like to ride a party bus. I'm lucky I at least got to experience a little of it. The kids today are mostly taking Uber and Lyft. Of course Muni sucks, but it's still a part of the SF experience and exposes people to non-hipsters or people from different backgrounds. It's a chance for racial and class mixing. But Muni has some major marketing issues. Hipsters now think it's lame, which is counter to what you'd expect in a transit-friendly market heavy with Gen Y population. BART successfully overcame this hurdle and any East Bay train is loaded with different types of people (BART has way better social media, better branding, better marketing, better reliability, better everything). BART is smart. They bring out those cute floats during parades and have a good website and Facebook page. Price-wise, Muni or BART are not a big difference from ride-sharing (non-surge pricing) with four people.

 

Say you're going under three miles, then the bus or rail suddenly isn't much cheaper. I wouldn't be surprised if these apps eventually hurt Muni, which is already a financially-questionable system. Muni has a long history of problems, and this could be compounding it.

 

*Though BART ridership will continue to soar despite its insanely high prices since East Bay growth has overtaken the city. $150-$250 more in monthly transit fares is not enough to steer people away from $1000 or more in monthly rent savings. You can still get a 1-bd in Oakland near BART for $2000-$2500 a month that would cost you $3,000-$4,000 a month for similar BART proximity in San Francisco. Uber and Lyft will not touch BART ridership any time soon, but I'm sure they make serious bank after 12:30am when all the train stations are closed. BART's lack of late-night service has got to be fueling growth in ride share apps...

**Basically, in the Bay, there is a perfect storm of crappy transit conditions that makes it easy to test market these apps. I don't think they can ever be quite as successful in good transit cities like New York, Chicago, or DC. BART shutting down so early and having no service for about 75% of San Francisco residents and 50% of Oakland residents is a big leg up for ride sharing. BART doesn't even touch the biggest/best nightlife districts (Marina, Polk, North Beach, Nob Hill, Haight in SF or Adams Point and Jack London Square in Oakland). I walk a mile or two to these places from the nearest train stations. This lack of transit in good nightlife districts is certainly fueling ride share apps in the Bay. Now Midwestern markets with crappy transit? Perfect. Uber is most-needed in cities like Cincinnati, Detroit, Toledo, Columbus, Cleveland, Grand Rapids, Indianapolis, etc. Their nightlife structure makes them perfect for ride share apps. In all those cities you have centralized urban core nightlife districts that bring in people from around the cities and suburbs. Then there are usually a couple of secondary districts on the periphery along with a college district somewhere outside of downtown. An Uber driver circling around them could probably make bank...

 

People in the Midwest seem like they're more willing to travel when they go out to party. In SF, just getting a friend to travel more than three miles can be a challenge. People usually only do it if nothing better near their apartment shows up, they don't pre-game too hard, or they don't end up hooking up at 10pm. As a result, it seems like most Uber rides here are short hauls. Three miles in the Midwest? That's nothing. I don't think Midwesterners start factoring in travel times until 10 miles since the cities are so spread out. Hell, even 20 miles is common. When I worked in Toledo, it was normal to drive all the way to Bowling Green (though anyone driving drunk on I-75 is insane). Hell, a lot of Toledo parties in Detroit and Windsor too. That's 50-60 miles for most of them.

 

I expect Uber to have years of explosive growth in Midwestern markets. Midwesterners like to drink, but friends tend to live scattered around. And unlike SF and some other first tier markets, Midwesterners do seem to visit friends across town fairly often. What's a monthly thing in other cities is probably more of a weekly thing in the Midwest. There are a lot of party schools too. Also having decently urban inner-ring suburbs with secondary nightlife districts like Lakewood, Royal Oak, or Birmingham is bound to fuel growth. "Dude, I know we're in Lakewood, but why don't we hit this spot downtown? I've got a Tinder match there who just messaged."

 

I'd love to see some metrics on average miles travelled to party in the Midwest...

I share your concern that Uber / Lyft will undermine public transportation ridership by choice riders, especially the sort of streetcar systems that are now being built in many cities which are aimed to serve people who already have cars.  Generally rapid transit systems like BART and NYC subway will be fine because they offer equal or faster speed at a fraction of the price.  Part of that cost savings is avoiding bridge and tunnel tolls. 

 

The surge / prime-time pricing is ridiculous on Friday and Saturday nights so I will continue to walk, bike, or drive my own vehicle to events and then only take the ridesharing cars if I've drank too much and/or a storm rolled in and returning on foot or by bicycle would totally suck.   

 

Luckily I own a house within the minimum $5 fare distance of most of what's worth doing in this city, so it is really tempting to take the cars, but I've only done it once because my old habits of walking and biking are going to die hard.  Also I can't resist the urge to tip the drivers well, even when taking a very short ride.

 

Just read on the Lyft driver page on Facebook that the marketing positions have been eliminated in each of several midwestern cities.  I have no doubt that the launch of Lyft in these cities has been a disaster and that the company's revenues are often less than $1,000 per day per city.  The fares are so low that Lyft is often only brining in $3 per trip (and often less), and I'm skeptical that there are more than 300 total Lyft trips each day Sun-Thursday in the mid-sized cities. 

 

Do the math! 

Yeah, I'd be most concerned if I were in Detroit and Cincinnati. Current and former Rust Belt cities trying to build new transit may very well be undermined by ride sharing. If Muni takes hits, it's quite likely those cute new streetcars in Detroit and Cincinnati will take hits.

 

It seems like in the Bay, there has been a recent surge of transit hate. I'm shocked at the racist and classist things I've been hearing coming out of people's mouths recently. Examples:

 

"I'm all Google bus and Uber and Lyft now. BART and Muni just aren't safe for a single Asian girl with all those crusty beardo guys with yellow fever." Has anyone ever been raped on BART or Muni? I bet it's statistically more likely on Uber or Lyft...

 

"BART sucks. Why would anyone go to Oakland or Berkeley? Aren't there still black people there?" (I told this guy he was racist. His response? "Dude, I voted for Obama and am a liberal Democrat. We even have a black guy on our sales team.")

 

"I'd never date across the Bay. I'd have to take the train! Relationship killer."

 

"I threw out my Clipper Card. Thank God I no longer have to ride with those smelly or ugly people."

 

Though probably less classist, I could see similar sentiments popping up in Midwest markets too...

 

"Bro, screw that Cincy streetcar, let's take Uber."

 

*Agree heavy rail is mostly safe due to speed, reliability, and price. Its advantages are clear over cars. What you might see are supplemental Ubers from the train stations. It's light rail and busses I'd expect losses to happen since that transfer market could take hits, and well, they move slower. I don't think Gen Y is really all that into public transit. I'm not sure where that stereotype came from. Most of the people around my age look pretty miserable when riding transit. RBF is through the roof (it tends to be bad above ground too in hipster areas, but markedly scaled back at street level). People are into not having to own cars. That doesn't have to lead to more transit ridership and political support. It could just lead to more biking, more walking, more corporate shuttles, and more ride sharing. If young people in the Bay are any indication, the political tides seem to be shifting against public transit. Though BART ended up being a greatly scaled back system, it was a political miracle for stuff like the Transbay Tube, Market Street subway in San Francisco, and Broadway subway in Oakland to get built. Those people back in the 60's and 70's were the real progressives. The engineering and construction of BART was mind-boggling expensive, yet people supported it. Those San Francisco and Oakland voters back then obviously had mass transit at the forefront of their political goals. They got it funded and built. Could BART be built today? Will the currently planned expansions and infill stations get funded? Just looking at all the controversy over the Oakland Airport Connector makes me think the Bay is at a political tipping point. Google busses and ride sharing could very well be shifting the market to private transit for those who have a choice. I'm kind of surprised these private corporate shuttles aren't big in other cities considering all the job sprawl across the United States. I have a feeling it's a Bay Area trend that will spread.

 

**With all this said, I like Uber and will continue to use it. It filled a hole in the market here and is a well-run company. If the so-called tech bubble ever blows, I expect Uber to be a winner. Like Apple, Salesforce, Oracle, Yahoo, and Google in the last bubble, they are built for the long haul. I love transit, but like most people, I too run into situations where I don't want to take transit even if available. Classic example is when with a girl.

Calvin you're right.  BART is the first multi-county transit agency and it took a supermajority vote to get funded.  It passed on the first try.  Not only that but it blows all of the other postwar transit systems out of the water with the exception of the Washington Metro.  The decision to do the 4-track subway with Muni is the sort of thing that is absolutely politically impossible but somehow it all happened and the economic health of the Bay Area can be attributed largely to it.  The only big flaw in the system is that it's so horrendously expensive to expand -- much more so than light rail.  I know there is some talk of building a second transbay tube but you have to wonder if it's wiser to build a sort-of parallel system with modern light rail, which is so much less expensive. 

The real hippies were born in the '20s and '30s

Edit: No longer a necessary post.

Folks, keep it on topic, and let's not devolve into pointless arguing that does nothing to further the thread.

Thanks to whatever boring person deleted my last post.  I posted the exact same videos on a Lyft driver form and they generated a ton of fun conversation.   

 

Anyway Cincinnati passed some sort of regulation for Uber and Lyft this week but there hasn't been any news story on it.  Here is the email Lyft sent out to drivers:

 

You did it, Cincinnati! This week’s vote in support of ridesharing further positions the Queen City as one of the country’s friendliest toward innovation.

 

We’d like to thank Mayor Cranley, Transportation Chair Amy Murray and the entire City Council for their commitment to preserving Lyft’s reliable rides and economic opportunity for the people of Cincinnati.

 

But this victory truly belongs to you. Over the last seven months, you’ve helped pioneer the country’s safest, most affordable transportation option in your neighborhood.

 

This groundbreaking agreement will serve as an example to cities around the country, showing that nothing can stop our movement when we work together.

 

 

If anyone wants $20 off their first Uber ride, enter code 0etzc.  You get $20 and I get $5.  That's a zero then the letters, I think.  If that doesn't work then use the capital O.   

Has to be the first ride?

While in LA last week I noticed all Uber drivers had a sticker logo on their front windshield. Just saw this in Cincinnati last night. Is this something new?

Yeah.  Use a different email address and CC# if you've got one to start a second account. 

Uber and Lyft both experienced server outages on Halloween night due to unprecedented high demand.  I was not driving so I didn't experience them but it is a little sobering to recognize that in a few years when cabs are driven almost completely out of business that in the event of a natural disaster the system probably won't work at all.  First because of high demand, second because people without cars and car chargers won't be able to recharge their phones. 

Lyft passenger dies in crash near Sacramento:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ellenhuet/2014/11/02/lyfts-first-fatality-passenger-death-crash-sacramento/

In case anyone was wondering how much the fare runs from Columbus to Cincinnati, here you go:

In comparison to Lyft, look at how massive Uber's surge pricing was after the Bengals game tonight:

 

So $140 to go to Columbus or $110 to go to...Madisonville during the 5X surge. 

 

BTW, people pay the hell attention if you are hailing a ride the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving or New Year's Eve...lots and lots of rides will approach or top $100 those nights. 

In comparison to Lyft, look at how massive Uber's surge pricing was after the Bengals game tonight:

 

So $140 to go to Columbus or $110 to go to...Madisonville during the 5X surge. 

 

BTW, people pay the hell attention if you are hailing a ride the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving or New Year's Eve...lots and lots of rides will approach or top $100 those nights.

Exactly the reason why I use Lyft the stupid things is uber has a way better marketing team

Someone posted this on Reddit, taken at CVG:

 

That's news to me.  People are still using it all day long and in fact using the app it's easy to see that some drivers are illegally hanging out in that pickup area you show in order to be closer to ride requests and beat out cars that are parked in the cell phone lot. 

Someone posted this on Reddit, taken at CVG:

 

 

IN THE INTEREST IN PROTECTING THE CUSTOMER.....

 

 

Hahahahaha.....right....

 

Exactly the reason why I use Lyft the stupid things is uber has a way better marketing team

 

Right now Uber typically has so many more cars on the road in Cincinnati that you'll usually have a car get to you more quickly.  But come on -- just wait five more minutes and you can save $5-10 on a ride of any distance, then give a tip directly to your driver.  And by that I mean give a cash tip, don't tip through the app.  Tips that are paid through the app will be taxed at about a 35% rate. 

 

 

 

Exactly the reason why I use Lyft the stupid things is uber has a way better marketing team

 

Right now Uber typically has so many more cars on the road in Cincinnati that you'll usually have a car get to you more quickly.  But come on -- just wait five more minutes and you can save $5-10 on a ride of any distance, then give a tip directly to your driver.  And by that I mean give a cash tip, don't tip through the app.  Tips that are paid through the app will be taxed at about a 35% rate. 

 

 

 

Its still infinitely better than a cab in most parts of Cincy where you might wait 30 mins on a good day :P.

 

Also I'll keep the cash tip in mind next time I use Lyft in any town.

I can understand not tipping an Uber driver during a 5X surge pricing ride of any distance.  And also don't plan on using Uber on New Year's because it will probably be surge pricing from 6pm to 6am.  But during ordinary time I would probably throw a driver a $5 bill for a short ride and $10 for a long one to or from the airport. 

 

 

But isn't part of the whole marketing strategy of Uber and Lyft that you don't have to worry about having cash on you to pay or tip? They're supposed to be simple and the built-in transactions are a huge part of why they're desirable. It's easy to use. The moment it becomes exactly like a normal cab only with surge pricing, what's the point?

But isn't part of the whole marketing strategy of Uber and Lyft that you don't have to worry about having cash on you to pay or tip? They're supposed to be simple and the built-in transactions are a huge part of why they're desirable. It's easy to use. The moment it becomes exactly like a normal cab only with surge pricing, what's the point?

 

You can't tip the driver through the Uber app so any tip has to be cash.  And my point about a cash tip with Lyft is that the driver keeps more of that tip whereas 30-35% of a credit card tip is lost to taxes (no, Lyft does not take a cut of the tips, but remember that 1099 employees have to pay self-employment tax on top of ordinary fed and state income tax, + 2.1% Cincinnati earnings tax).  The actual amount which a particular driver is taxed is dependent upon their total earned income.  Most likely a driver is in the 25% federal bracket, but they might be in a lower or higher bracket. 

 

The other big issue that passengers don't understand is that there is not only a fuel cost in a driver's approach to their pickup spot, there is also an opportunity cost (drivers are paid nothing while driving to a passenger, be it one block or 10 miles).  For example, if two drivers are parked near the Skyline Chili in Clifton and one gets a call for a ride originating in College Hill who then goes downtown but the other one gets one from UC for a ride headed downtown the driver with the shorter ride might end up making more money overall because he's onto his next ride much more quickly.  So if you see that a driver has to drive a significant distance to pick you up, please consider that when tipping. 

 

 

 

 

 

Isn't tip built into the Uber pricing? I've only used Lyft recently so I'm not sure I'm remembering correctly when I used Uber a couple years ago in San Francisco.

 

I know this might sound rude, but how is the "opportunity cost" the problem of the people using the service? Drivers are voluntarily choosing to be drivers and know full well the terms of the payment procedures of the app they're driving for. Nobody is forcing them to drive for Lyft or Uber. Why should anyone feel the need to tip extra to make up for terms that are well-known by drivers?

This whole tipping business is nonsense. As both smith and jmicha have mentioned, a huge part of their business is the fact that you don't need anything but an account and your mobile phone to get a ride from Point A to Point B. It is safer for both the driver and the passenger not to have a cash interaction.

 

And rideshare drivers have distinct economic advantages as they get a much higher percentage of their fares than taxi drivers. In Uber's case, 80% of every ride.

 

Not to mention you open the door for drivers to rate riders lower simply for them not producing a few extra bucks on their way out of the car.

 

The service works exactly the way it is supposed too, cash free. Drivers know they'll make money. That is why there are 8 Uber X cars and 6 Lyft cars currently available downtown at 4:45 PM on a Tuesday in November.

This whole tipping business is nonsense. As both smith and jmicha have mentioned, a huge part of their business is the fact that you don't need anything but an account and your mobile phone to get a ride from Point A to Point B. It is safer for both the driver and the passenger not to have a cash interaction.

 

And rideshare drivers have distinct economic advantages as they get a much higher percentage of their fares than taxi drivers. In Uber's case, 80% of every ride.

 

Users of Uber and Lyft obviously haven't noticed the race-to-the-bottom price war that the two have engaged in throughout 2014.  Uber just lowered its rates in Cincinnati by 10% in October.  This means the drivers are making 10% less, surge or no surge, and Lyft is 20-30% cheaper than it was when it arrived in Ohio back in the spring.   

 

So how much are the drivers actually making?  Thanks to the price war and the no-tipping culture, on most nights the rideshare drivers are making less per-hour and putting many more miles on their vehicles than pizza deliverymen.  From what I've experienced, there are about 10-15 days per year when an Uber/Lyft driver can expect to make big money -- over $25/hr after taxes/expenses for 5+ hours.  The rest of the time, after taxes, fuel, and depreciation, drivers are rarely consistently clearing $10/hr and some nights average about $5/hr. 

 

Pizza men are typically paid minimum wage + commission (5%~ of sales to cover gas) + tips.  As someone who has made about $120,000 after taxes delivering pizzas, I can attest that after taxes I consistently made $15-17/hr. Periodically we'd beat $20/hr.  On bad nights it got down around $10-12/hr. 

 

So what happens when you request a ride via rideshare is that you're paying a fare that does not fluctuate to respect the context of the service from the perspective of the individual who is providing it.  Pizza delivery men are lavished with $3-5 tips all night long yet Uber and Lyft drivers must sit in their cars for ten minutes to an hour waiting for a ride request, then burn their own gas getting to that passenger. 

 

There is a culture of tipping pizza men who, as I mentioned, are paid minimum wage plus a commission, but for whatever reason we're not supposed to tip people who drive us around in their cars, not merely our food, even though there is a 100-year tradition of tipping taxi drivers. 

 

I can understand not tipping an Uber driver during a 5X surge pricing ride of any distance.  And also don't plan on using Uber on New Year's because it will probably be surge pricing from 6pm to 6am.  But during ordinary time I would probably throw a driver a $5 bill for a short ride and $10 for a long one to or from the airport. 

 

 

 

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/customers-out-in-the-cold-balk-at-uber-surge-pricing/?_r=0

 

http://gothamist.com/2012/11/04/uber.php

 

Pretty extreme examples, but really stick to lyft or a regular cab on new years.

I can understand not tipping an Uber driver during a 5X surge pricing ride of any distance.  And also don't plan on using Uber on New Year's because it will probably be surge pricing from 6pm to 6am.  But during ordinary time I would probably throw a driver a $5 bill for a short ride and $10 for a long one to or from the airport. 

 

 

 

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/customers-out-in-the-cold-balk-at-uber-surge-pricing/?_r=0

 

http://gothamist.com/2012/11/04/uber.php

 

Pretty extreme examples, but really stick to lyft or a regular cab on new years.

 

Yes I have heard that people request rides like crazy in the snow, however the time to reach a passenger increases dramatically, and so does the risk for a driver damaging his vehicle. 

 

I can understand not tipping an Uber driver during a 5X surge pricing ride of any distance.  And also don't plan on using Uber on New Year's because it will probably be surge pricing from 6pm to 6am.  But during ordinary time I would probably throw a driver a $5 bill for a short ride and $10 for a long one to or from the airport. 

 

 

 

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/customers-out-in-the-cold-balk-at-uber-surge-pricing/?_r=0

 

http://gothamist.com/2012/11/04/uber.php

 

Pretty extreme examples, but really stick to lyft or a regular cab on new years.

 

And on New Year's just take the bus if you can.  I'm definitely planning to drive from the minute I get off work until sunrise.  I'm sure that surge pricing will continue until noon the next day since so many drivers will be sleeping late. 

 

This whole tipping business is nonsense. As both smith and jmicha have mentioned, a huge part of their business is the fact that you don't need anything but an account and your mobile phone to get a ride from Point A to Point B. It is safer for both the driver and the passenger not to have a cash interaction.

 

And rideshare drivers have distinct economic advantages as they get a much higher percentage of their fares than taxi drivers. In Uber's case, 80% of every ride.

 

Users of Uber and Lyft obviously haven't noticed the race-to-the-bottom price war that the two have engaged in throughout 2014.  Uber just lowered its rates in Cincinnati by 10% in October.  This means the drivers are making 10% less, surge or no surge, and Lyft is 20-30% cheaper than it was when it arrived in Ohio back in the spring.   

 

So how much are the drivers actually making?  Thanks to the price war and the no-tipping culture, on most nights the rideshare drivers are making less per-hour and putting many more miles on their vehicles than pizza deliverymen.  From what I've experienced, there are about 10-15 days per year when an Uber/Lyft driver can expect to make big money -- over $25/hr after taxes/expenses for 5+ hours.  The rest of the time, after taxes, fuel, and depreciation, drivers are rarely consistently clearing $10/hr and some nights average about $5/hr. 

 

Pizza men are typically paid minimum wage + commission (5%~ of sales to cover gas) + tips.  As someone who has made about $120,000 after taxes delivering pizzas, I can attest that after taxes I consistently made $15-17/hr. Periodically we'd beat $20/hr.  On bad nights it got down around $10-12/hr. 

 

So what happens when you request a ride via rideshare is that you're paying a fare that does not fluctuate to respect the context of the service from the perspective of the individual who is providing it.  Pizza delivery men are lavished with $3-5 tips all night long yet Uber and Lyft drivers must sit in their cars for ten minutes to an hour waiting for a ride request, then burn their own gas getting to that passenger. 

 

There is a culture of tipping pizza men who, as I mentioned, are paid minimum wage plus a commission, but for whatever reason we're not supposed to tip people who drive us around in their cars, not merely our food, even though there is a 100-year tradition of tipping taxi drivers. 

 

 

No tipping culture? Tip is built in. That's a key selling point of uber and Lyft. That's what makes them so desirable. Again, it's not the users' problem that people are not making a bunch of money off something they agreed to sign up to do. If tip is stated as "included" why would people think they need to provide additional tip? That makes no sense and goes completely against a huge selling point of the entire service.

 

This sounds more like people coming to the realization that driving people around sucks and wanting more money out of it than the app they signed up to drive for is paying them. That's not the users' problem.

Uber does not enable tipping through the app.  The tip is absolutely not built-in and as I just stated Uber lowered fares in Cincinnati by 10% about two weeks ago.  That is a pay cut for drivers as there are still many times during the week when a driver sits for more than 30 minutes between ride requests.  So as a user you have the power to ensure that these drivers are paid a fair amount for the service they provide by tipping.  Otherwise you're a capitalist pig. 

 

Again, why should somebody who simply unscrews a bottle cap get a tip but not someone who drives you somewhere in their own car?  Why should someone who brings a pizza to your house or place of business get $5 but not that same guy when he drives you to the airport in that same car?

Was Uber always this way? Because the first time I used it the driver very specifically said, "tip is built in to what we're paid, we're not allowed to accept tips." I asked my return driver and he said the exact same thing.

 

Hell, I just checked their site and it says, "Being Uber, no tipping is necessary." If these are explicitly stated as parts of how payment works, why are you so quick to judge people who follow what the app tells you? It honestly just sounds like you think your time is worth more and if that's the case, do something else. Expecting people to go against the marketing strategy of a service is ridiculous. Blaming it on them and not the creators of the service and calling them "capitalist pigs" is childish.

 

The service specifically states that their pricing doesn't require tipping and when several drivers state they don't accept tips, you feeling otherwise is your problem, nobody else's.

I don't think it's about Uber/Lyft's policy about whether a tip is "built in". I think it's about wanting to pay someone for a job they do. I leave tips for the housekeeping staff at hotels even though they get paid minimum wage, unlike restaurants workers who are getting the Herman Cain special of $2.13/hour.

But the difference here is that they market it as pricing being all-inclusive. That leads people to believe that it's not necessary to give a cash tip because it's part of the pricing already. If that's not the case then their marketing is deceiving.

 

This would be like going to that new restaurant that has tips built into the pricing and wages they give. You're led to believe that tip is already taken care of and therefore you don't need to go above and beyond that.

 

I think the problem here is the marketing of Uber. They market themselves as being all-inclusive and not needing cash at all for any part of the transaction. If that's not really the case it's not the fault of the user, but rather the fault of Uber.

Tipping for Uber and Lyft is nonsensical given how they describe the relationship between the companies and the drivers. If you want a tip quit being a subcontractor.

I don't think it's about Uber/Lyft's policy about whether a tip is "built in". I think it's about wanting to pay someone for a job they do. I leave tips for the housekeeping staff at hotels even though they get paid minimum wage, unlike restaurants workers who are getting the Herman Cain special of $2.13/hour.

 

Incidentally some pizza chains have computer POS systems that switch their drivers between regular minimum wage when they're in the store and washing dishes or prepping to "tipped employee" minimum wage when they sign out on a run.  Some chains also give the driver a $1 commission per delivery, so they're not actually making $2.13/hr, but nevertheless it is a condition that was enabled by technology that works to the advantage of ownership.

 

Also most people don't know that waiters sometimes *owe* money at the end of a week because taxation of their credit card tips causes all of their meager hourly wage to be withheld.

 

And I'm a bit surprised that people don't recognize how significant the 10% fare cut is to drivers.  A 10% cut in revenue doesn't mean a driver is "making" 10% less, it means they're actually making much less, somewhere between 20-40% less since their operating costs have remained constant.  The drivers are caught in a trap in any case where they quit their previous job to drive for Uber / Lyft back in the good 'ol days (6 months ago) when they were making a good haul.  Some drivers even went out and bought nicer cars and now they're just running in a hamster wheel for the benefit of ownership and early investors -- and apparently a high percentage of the clientele who don't give a damn about the fairness of what's going on. 

 

That's why we're hearing rumblings that the Teamsters are concocting a plan to unionize rideshare drivers. 

 

So maybe the taxi drivers are right, and Uber/Lyft are evil, and we should just keep the old model? Because the old model explicitly includes tipping, whereas the new model (in Uber's case, at least) explicitly excludes it.

So maybe the taxi drivers are right, and Uber/Lyft are evil, and we should just keep the old model? Because the old model explicitly includes tipping, whereas the new model (in Uber's case, at least) explicitly excludes it.

 

No I think the ideal model is for public ownership of cashless system which provides quality jobs w/benefits to several hundred or thousand drivers per city who drive publicly owned and maintained vehicles.  Fares could double during periods of high demand, but there would be no 5X price gouging as exists now.