6 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

They haven't mentioned a developer so not sure why you think it's the same group who did the banks. 

I misread the quote in the article. It was worded weirdly but has since been updated in the enquirer article.

So I had a random idea pop in my head last night. 
 

I was thinking about the street car extension and how maybe it could benefit both the city and fc Cincinnati...

 

I was thinking how the lack of university Cincinnati fans might play a role at some point. Obviously they can theoretically walk, ride a bike and maybe even Uber (even though rideshare seems to be really hit or miss nowadays) but I was thinking of a potential dedicated line that could potentially service TQL stadium and UC.

 

What if you created an extension that followed along Central Park way and had a dedicated stop right next to the stadium...and this route would follow north along central parkway and cut through W McMillan St and following along w McMillan to where all the bars and restaurants are along that strip and have it loop down vine and cut back to E Central Park way and back to W Central Park way as part of its dedicated FCC TQL Stadium/Mohawk District/UC/North of Liberty OTR loop.

 

I’m just thinking long term how this could benefit fcc, especially if the goal is to create an entertainment district around the stadium and have various events occur in the stadium outside of fcc home games. It might make sense for fcc to lobby this idea to some degree.

that would be insanely expensive with almost no natural ridership. Loops are terrible because if you need to go in the opposite direction you have to take the whole route the wrong way. Development potential along most of that route is zero. And UC students made up a very small fraction of fans at FCC games at Nippert. This will never happen.

If there was a light rail line running from the western neighborhoods to the I-71 corridor, it would make sense to route it past TQL stadium. 

25 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

So I had a random idea pop in my head last night. 
 

I was thinking about the street car extension and how maybe it could benefit both the city and fc Cincinnati...

 

I was thinking how the lack of university Cincinnati fans might play a role at some point. Obviously they can theoretically walk, ride a bike and maybe even Uber (even though rideshare seems to be really hit or miss nowadays) but I was thinking of a potential dedicated line that could potentially service TQL stadium and UC.

 

What if you created an extension that followed along Central Park way and had a dedicated stop right next to the stadium...and this route would follow north along central parkway and cut through W McMillan St and following along w McMillan to where all the bars and restaurants are along that strip and have it loop down vine and cut back to E Central Park way and back to W Central Park way as part of its dedicated FCC TQL Stadium/Mohawk District/UC/North of Liberty OTR loop.

 

I’m just thinking long term how this could benefit fcc, especially if the goal is to create an entertainment district around the stadium and have various events occur in the stadium outside of fcc home games. It might make sense for fcc to lobby this idea to some degree.

 

I think that sounds too expensive. I think it may be better to have a spur from the Casino to FCC and continue it on to Union Terminal. Connect key entertainment venues and more importantly, they all offer large parking structures that can filter people in from the oustide into the more dense urban area, and they are all taged to attractions. When FCC does not have a game, it is still viable becuase it lets people park there during the day and gives them transportation to their jobs for work, or their apartments if they do not want to or are able to park on the street by their apartments.

Just now, Brutus_buckeye said:

 

I think that sounds too expensive. I think it may be better to have a spur from the Casino to FCC and continue it on to Union Terminal. Connect key entertainment venues and more importantly, they all offer large parking structures that can filter people in from the oustide into the more dense urban area, and they are all taged to attractions. When FCC does not have a game, it is still viable becuase it lets people park there during the day and gives them transportation to their jobs for work, or their apartments if they do not want to or are able to park on the street by their apartments.

yeah I was just thinking about possible extension routes that could have TQL stadium be a dedicated stop, but also link some other key spots as well. 
 

I like the idea of adding a line that could connect hard rock to TQL and maybe somehow connect uptown as well. 
 

I just think it’s somewhat key to connect UC students to downtown somehow and I think ultimately it would be good for businesses.

 

Again I know Uber was the main way of transportation before COVID but it’s now impossible to get a ride and the ride share prices have gone up ridiculously high. 
 

I imagine that if you could somehow get the street car up to the students in uptown, have it be free, then you would see a lot more pedestrian traffic in parts of otr/west end/Pendleton/the banks, etc.

If rail goes on Central, it should be in the subway under Central if that's even still possible with stations, ADA, water mains etc. But route wise I would extend it on Central from the casino down central, allowing transfers to the current streetcar on central, all the way to Straight Street where it would turn up the hill to the new huge development at Deaconess and UC's campus. That wouldn't be super direct, but assuming you were in the subway for much of the route through the West End it would be mostly separated from traffic and I feel like it could be quicker to get up the hill than surface running on Vine. 

1 minute ago, Troeros2 said:

yeah I was just thinking about possible extension routes that could have TQL stadium be a dedicated stop, but also link some other key spots as well. 
 

I like the idea of adding a line that could connect hard rock to TQL and maybe somehow connect uptown as well. 
 

I just think it’s somewhat key to connect UC students to downtown somehow and I think ultimately it would be good for businesses.

 

Again I know Uber was the main way of transportation before COVID but it’s now impossible to get a ride and the ride share prices have gone up ridiculously high. 
 

I imagine that if you could somehow get the street car up to the students in uptown, have it be free, then you would see a lot more pedestrian traffic in parts of otr/west end/Pendleton/the banks, etc.

My only issue with going up the hill to UC is that it would be much more expensive. If you can get people to take a 3-4 minute Streetcar ride to the game from their parking lot at Union Terminal or the Casino or whereever else, it could lead to them to spend more time going around town after the games instead of getting in their cars and going home. 

3 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

If rail goes on Central Parkway, it should be in the subway under Central Parkway if that's even still possible with stations, ADA, water mains etc. But route wise I would extend it on Central Parkway from the casino down central, allowing transfers to the current streetcar on central, all the way to Straight Street where it would turn up the hill to the new huge development at Deaconess and UC's campus. That wouldn't be super direct, but assuming you were in the subway for much of the route through the West End it would be mostly separated from traffic and I feel like it could be quicker to get up the hill than surface running on Vine. 

Fixed that for you, adding Central *Parkway* to distinguish from Central Ave. 

4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

My only issue with going up the hill to UC is that it would be much more expensive. If you can get people to take a 3-4 minute Streetcar ride to the game from their parking lot at Union Terminal or the Casino or whereever else, it could lead to them to spend more time going around town after the games instead of getting in their cars and going home. 

I see. But I think alternatively you could maybe entice more people to live downtown/banks/otr/west end if you connect the two.

 

I know uptown is one of the biggest employers, especially with all of its medical researchers, doctors, nurses, etc. 

 

they can obviously afford to live where ever they want. 
 

In my mind, downtown living could in theory be more attractive if you had some type of rail line that connected the two somehow. 
 

maybe the street car is not the answer but something more high speed, but regardless I think uptown with its wealth of jobs and it’s UC student population is key to connect. 
 

right now the two areas feel like separate islands in a way and I feel like a high speed connector is key. 
 

I have a feeling aftab might become mayor and I know he is pro public transit. I also know that Biden infrastructure bill could potentially play a role as well as the stimulus that Cincy received.

 

again, I know this all pie in the sky talk for the time being but I do think at some point, hopefully sooner rather than later, that there is a serious discussion about how to properly connect the two areas.
 

You are right that Cincinnati and Hamilton County need to be prepared to strike while the iron is hot and fight for some transit money from the Feds. 

IIRC, the water works is responsible for removing the water main if the subway tunnels are to be used for transit. The streets the subway is under are wide enough for rail lines though. 

 

Wasn't there a Cincinnati Transit Ideas thread somewhere?

Certainly turned out to be a nice facility. I'm anxious to see what can be built up around it.  The western facade still annoys me. I think they could have screened in all those mechanicals and walls that clash with the overall symmetry of the other three sides. Why does the neighborhood have to look at the ugly side? Don't they deserve a pleasing facade to look at as well...not to mention the view and the impression it leaves for drivers along I-75.

10 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

Certainly turned out to be a nice facility. I'm anxious to see what can be built up around it.  The western facade still annoys me. I think they could have screened in all those mechanicals and walls that clash with the overall symmetry of the other three sides. Why does the neighborhood have to look at the ugly side? Don't they deserve a pleasing facade to look at as well...not to mention the view and the impression it leaves for drivers along I-75.

Part of it is self inflicted since the neighborhood didn't want LED lights shining in their windows (rightfully so) so the LED fins stop and what you are left with is pretty boring. 

22 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

not to mention the view and the impression it leaves for drivers along I-75.

I’ve driven past it recently while in cincy and on I-75 and you cant really make out much while going 60+ mph. Also it being sooo grey on that side of the building camouflages it really well.

Edited May 18, 20214 yr by 646empire

6 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Part of it is self inflicted since the neighborhood didn't want LED lights shining in their windows

Spot on

16 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Spot on

Not spot on at all. I dont live in the West End, and have been supportive of this facility. I'm not stoked about the taxpayer involvement. I would assume nobody wanted the lighting to be on the western side due to all the existing residential. But that doesn't mean they couldn't make it attractive, and continue the fins sans lighting. 

You guys seem pretty dismissive. So it took some convincing, and not all West End residents were on board, and your response is to simply say "screw them"? Thats the EXACT mentality that create NIMBYS. What about all the people in the West End who were supportive? Screw them too?

Regarding having a TQL Stadium streetcar stop, there already is one. The Washington Park stop at 14th and Elm is literally one block away. It's right next to where the March stops to rally and it is smack dab in the middle of all the supporters' bars. Just give it a name "Music Hall/TQL Stadium Station." And if you want to connect UC students to the new stadium just do the original streetcar extension route.

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

Again I know Uber was the main way of transportation before COVID but it’s now impossible to get a ride and the ride share prices have gone up ridiculously high. 

 

I took one this weekend. There were plenty available and the prices were fine. I imagine any issues related to the pandemic will be gone soon.

Straight Street for sure and probably West McMillan are too steep for today's streetcars. The existing roads between Uptown and Downtown are either too steep, too narrow or to curvy -- or all three -- to accommodate modern streetcars. The old streetcars which used streets like Vine and west Liberty (now Liberty Hill) were smaller and lighter. Or, in the case of West McMillan, had an incline to get up the hill.

 

It's going to require a tunnel to connect Uptown with Downtown Cincinnati. Probably two. It will happen someday.

51 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

Certainly turned out to be a nice facility. I'm anxious to see what can be built up around it.  The western facade still annoys me. I think they could have screened in all those mechanicals and walls that clash with the overall symmetry of the other three sides. Why does the neighborhood have to look at the ugly side? Don't they deserve a pleasing facade to look at as well...not to mention the view and the impression it leaves for drivers along I-75.

It's also really out of scale. The west side of the stadium really towers over those homes. Part of that is a slight elevation decline, John Street is lower than Central Parkway, but the stadium itself is closer to John Street than it is to Central Parkway. I assume they wanted plenty of room to create a grand front entrance on Central Parkway, but it feels like it should have been closer to the Parkway where we need the feeling of a more dense, urban environment.

23 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

Not spot on at all. I dont live in the West End, and have been supportive of this facility. I'm not stoked about the taxpayer involvement. I would assume nobody wanted the lighting to be on the western side due to all the existing residential. But that doesn't mean they couldn't make it attractive, and continue the fins sans lighting. 

You guys seem pretty dismissive. So it took some convincing, and not all West End residents were on board, and your response is to simply say "screw them"? Thats the EXACT mentality that create NIMBYS. What about all the people in the West End who were supportive? Screw them too?

That wasn't my intention at all, and if my tone was dismissive it wasn't meant towards the West End community, it's towards the ownership and development team. Every part of the building that isn't an LED fin form the exterior is a boring grey box of unfinished cinder block. I am hopeful that the stadium is eventually surrounded with interesting and engaging buildings or that new murals go up, because right now the stadium looks awesome at night and from the inside, but is lacking otherwise. 

11 minutes ago, John Schneider said:

Straight Street for sure and probably West McMillan are too steep for today's streetcars. The existing roads between Uptown and Downtown are either too steep, too narrow or to curvy -- or all three -- to accommodate modern streetcars. The old streetcars which used streets like Vine and west Liberty (now Liberty Hill) were smaller and lighter. Or, in the case of West McMillan, had an incline to get up the hill.

 

It's going to require a tunnel to connect Uptown with Downtown Cincinnati. Probably two. It will happen someday.

Was there ever a study done to see how much the proposed cost would be for something like that above? 

1 hour ago, Troeros2 said:

Was there ever a study done to see how much the proposed cost would be for something like that above? 

Not an officially sanctioned study you could take to the bank. But an international engineering firm has looked at it. Turns out the soils are perfect for tunneling. They estimated a cost. All I can say is that it is in line with the cost of other major projects which have been done around here. Compared to the benefits -- people saving 5-10 minutes per trip for 100 or so years of the tunnel's life -- the cost is affordable and, in any case, it's the only way we'll ever get rail to Uptown.

 

Edited May 18, 20214 yr by John Schneider

56 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I’ve driven past it recently while in cincy and on I-75 and you cant really make out much while going 60+ mph. Also it being sooo grey on that side of the building camouflages it really well.

I had out of towners in my vehicle when we drove by.  You're exposed to it for quite some time heading southbound. They couldn't believe it was the same building I had just shown them the day before in the video promo the team put out. They even commented how we certainly weren't looking at "the Hollywood side" from our viewpoint.

7 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

That wasn't my intention at all, and if my tone was dismissive it wasn't meant towards the West End community, it's towards the ownership and development team. Every part of the building that isn't an LED fin form the exterior is a boring grey box of unfinished cinder block. I am hopeful that the stadium is eventually surrounded with interesting and engaging buildings or that new murals go up, because right now the stadium looks awesome at night and from the inside, but is lacking otherwise. 

Murals could go a long way toward improving those awful blank walls. I apologize if I came off harsh. I just want to make sure the team and ownership catch the gruff for these egregious design shortcomings, and not the neighborhood.

35 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

Not spot on at all. I dont live in the West End, and have been supportive of this facility. I'm not stoked about the taxpayer involvement. I would assume nobody wanted the lighting to be on the western side due to all the existing residential. But that doesn't mean they couldn't make it attractive, and continue the fins sans lighting. 

You guys seem pretty dismissive. So it took some convincing, and not all West End residents were on board, and your response is to simply say "screw them"? Thats the EXACT mentality that create NIMBYS. What about all the people in the West End who were supportive? Screw them too?

Ummm it is spot on. The core reasoning WHY* that side of the stadium didn’t get a ton of thought/design investment started from residents concern about the lighting. I 100% agree with the statement it was partially self inflicted. I agree the team could have asked the architects to do more on the west side but I’m not surprised they decided to save cash and go veryyy simple. 

Meanwhile on the east side of the building there is ALSO a residential neighborhood and the lights are shining straight into the windows of people in Over-the-Rhine and up the hill. 

Out of scale, for sure.

7 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

I had out of towners in my vehicle when we drove by.  You're exposed to it for quite some time heading southbound. They couldn't believe it was the same building I had just shown them the day before in the video promo the team put out. They even commented how we certainly weren't looking at "the Hollywood side" from our viewpoint.

It’s ok to disagree and I do. I barely noticed the stadium at all driving on the expressway. Interesting that your out of towers did, most peoples eyes at that point on 75 are already fixed on the downtown skyline. 

1 minute ago, 646empire said:

Ummm it is spot on. The core reasoning WHY* that side of the stadium didn’t get a ton of thought/design investment started from residents concern about the lighting. I 100% agree with the statement it was partially self inflicted. I agree the team could have asked the architects to do more on the west side but I’m not surprised they decided to save cash and go veryyy simple. 

Again, its not that difficult to make the fins without the LED. I'm sure this was simply a cost saving measure, and all stadiums and structure have "utility" areas that can have unappealing exterior consequences. Just look at the western facade of Carew tower compared to the eastern side, and how the elevator shafts really diminish the exterior appearance compared to the eastern side.

I still think it's a $hitty move on the design end...even $hittier if as you think, it was partially done on purpose. I dont think it was, I just dont think anyone cared...and that in itself is just plain $hitty.

1 minute ago, 646empire said:

It’s ok to disagree and I do. I barely noticed the stadium at all driving on the expressway. Interesting that your out of towers did, most peoples eyes at that point on 75 are already fixed on the downtown skyline. 

Oh no, we were certainly looking for it!! The out of towners have been here enough to not care about the skyline. All that matters in the end is we are all fans of Cincy, and we cant wait to get to a game!

4 minutes ago, breakground said:

Meanwhile on the east side of the building there is ALSO a residential neighborhood and the lights are shining straight into the windows of people in Over-the-Rhine and up the hill. 

Out of scale, for sure.

There is a residential neighborhood on the east side too but residential doesn’t directly line the east side in the same way it does on the west side of the stadium. Also “up the hill” ? Lol really? Let’s not build anything flashy because someone somewhere may see it. 

11 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Also “up the hill” ? Lol really? Let’s not build anything flashy because someone somewhere may see it. 

My friend lives up on Mulberry and I will say that at night the lighting is shockingly bright. It’s a cool scene but it does overpower pretty much every other part of her view so I could see some people being pissed about it, not that it really makes any difference now that it’s already built.

3 minutes ago, Guy23 said:

My friend lives up on Mulberry and I will say that at night the lighting is shockingly bright. It’s a cool scene but it does overpower pretty much every other part of her view so I could see some people being pissed about it, not that it really makes any difference now that it’s already built.

I honestly believe it’s a focus because its new and many in cincy love to hate new things and change. I’m happy to see projects like this plowing thru the non sense and getting built.

55 minutes ago, 646empire said:

There is a residential neighborhood on the east side too but residential doesn’t directly line the east side in the same way it does on the west side of the stadium. Also “up the hill” ? Lol really? Let’s not build anything flashy because someone somewhere may see it. 

I know seriously.  It's like the people on Riverside Drive in Covington who complain about game day fireworks. Ridiculous.

Move out to a farm....

46 minutes ago, TheCOV said:

I know seriously.  It's like the people on Riverside Drive in Covington who complain about game day fireworks. Ridiculous.

Move out to a farm....

 

Maybe we should turn the Smale lights off too….

^ And tell Hard Rock they better not get too flashy with the hotel they are planning LOL.

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

There is a residential neighborhood on the east side too but residential doesn’t directly line the east side in the same way it does on the west side of the stadium. Also “up the hill” ? Lol really? Let’s not build anything flashy because someone somewhere may see it. 

Actually...it pretty much does though. Every building east of Central Parkway has a residential use except for the Health Dept.

15 minutes ago, breakground said:

Every building east of Central Parkway

?? I repeat residential does NOT line* the east side of the stadium like it does on the west side. Meaning Central Parkway itself. Yes we all know there is plenty of residential east of the parkway but commercial buildings and structures like Music Hall offers a buffer unlike the west side that has many homes literally across the street.

Edited May 18, 20214 yr by 646empire

On 5/18/2021 at 12:32 PM, John Schneider said:

Straight Street for sure and probably West McMillan are too steep for today's streetcars. The existing roads between Uptown and Downtown are either too steep, too narrow or to curvy -- or all three -- to accommodate modern streetcars. The old streetcars which used streets like Vine and west Liberty (now Liberty Hill) were smaller and lighter. Or, in the case of West McMillan, had an incline to get up the hill.

 

 

I know someone who was an engineer on the streetcar project. They have everything already designed for using Vine Street. You can even see the switches and stubs of track for the addition on Findlay and West Elder. 

On 5/19/2021 at 3:34 AM, 646empire said:

I honestly believe it’s a focus because its new and many in cincy love to hate new things and change. I’m happy to see projects like this plowing thru the non sense and getting built.

-Robert Moses, 1963

That's one way to generate some extra revenue!

 

 

3 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

That's one way to generate some extra revenue!

 

 

I don’t blame them. I would do the same. Ad revenue is a serious profit driver and no business man worth his 2 cents would pass on that!

1 minute ago, Troeros2 said:

I don’t blame them. I would do the same. Ad revenue is a serious profit driver and no business man worth his 2 cents would pass on that!

 

Oh I'm not blaming them at all. I'm not sure how happy the people living around the stadium will be with a giant Old Spice logo shining through their windows at night, but that's part of the joy of living in the city.

10 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

I don’t blame them. I would do the same. Ad revenue is a serious profit driver and no business man worth his 2 cents would pass on that!

What’s hilarious (but not) is the fact she posted this tweet as if it was something new. FC Cincy and the city has long known and made public the fact ads would sometimes be run on the display. Advertisers, MLS, Concert tours and many other events are going to loveeee this feature and something very few stadiums in world can offer. Also night/evening events on television will be worth every penny spent for an advertiser/the league.

17 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

I'm not sure how happy the people living around the stadium will be with a giant Old Spice logo shining through their windows at night

This nonsense argument is exhausting now. Can everyone pull up google maps and or actually walk past the stadium on the central parkway side so we can stop with this.

8 minutes ago, 646empire said:

This nonsense argument is exhausting now. Can everyone pull up google maps and or actually walk past the stadium on the central parkway side so we can stop with this.

 

I'm not making an argument against the stadium or it's lighting feature. Relax. You conveniently left out the part where I said this is part of the experience of living in the city. 

10 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

I'm not making an argument against the stadium or it's lighting feature. Relax. You conveniently left out the part where I said this is part of the experience of living in the city. 

What’s interesting is you conveniently added “part of the experience of living in the city” only after pushing the same ole *lights/ads are shining in people’s homes line.

 

 

I was in Cincinnati a couple weeks ago and purposely went down and walked along central past the stadium just to make sure I wasnt losing my mind and it turns out I wasn’t. For the millionth time there is virtually no residential that’s sits directly along the stadium fins or on that section of central parkway period. Yes* at night light will naturally shine east down onto streets that have residential but this idea that blinding Chick-Fil-A ads are going to disturb residents while they are trying to have dinner or enjoy the newest episode of wheel of furtune just isn’t true. 

I'm sure Crew fans won't use this in any memes whatsoever.

10 minutes ago, 646empire said:

What’s interesting is you conveniently added “part of the experience of living in the city” only after pushing the same ole *lights/ads are shining in people’s homes line.

 

Seriously, relax. I wasn't pushing anything. I was making a joke. It's a foregone conclusion that at least one NIMBY will pop up and complain about this, but as I said, it's part of living in the city so they need to get over it. 

6 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Seriously, relax. I wasn't pushing anything. I was making a joke. It's a foregone conclusion that at least one NIMBY will pop up and complain about this, but as I said, it's part of living in the city so they need to get over it. 

? I am relaxed. Lol. My response isn’t just to what you said but also the tweet that was posted.